Frustrated With Ignorant Sister

That is absolutely dumb. How can she not see that her fish are in pain?? Can you get any other adults that know about fish to talk to your parents and her?

 

I didn't mean to actually do it, I don't think the SPCA will get involved over a few fish anyway unless they're being tortured, if then. Really though, this is neglect, I think it calls for a family meeting. Be calm, be straightforward, and let them know that this is abuse of a living, feeling creature and that you're willing to help but only if your sister is willing to step up and be an adult.

*Edit* ****!?! A 22-year-old pharmacy major??? Ok, that girl needs to grow up.

Unfortunately, I don't think fish are even classified as anything greater than livestock. PETA has been known to crack down on abusive "lizard mills," and other commercial operations that breed reptiles in squalor. A couple of years ago, they did some sort of undercover mission on a guy keeping dozens of bearded dragons and water dragons in absolutely horrific conditions. I feel that PETA is an inappropriate group to handle such a guy... calls for a few wise guys with a good word and a baseball bat

This does give me an idea for a new show: Animal Planet's Aquarium Rescue!

 

That is absolutely dumb. How can she not see that her fish are in pain?? Can you get any other adults that know about fish to talk to your parents and her?

At 22, her sister is technically an adult already...

Unfortunately, I don't think fish are even classified as anything greater than livestock. PETA has been known to crack down on abusive "lizard mills," and other commercial operations that breed reptiles in squalor. A couple of years ago, they did some sort of undercover mission on a guy keeping dozens of bearded dragons and water dragons in absolutely horrific conditions. I feel that PETA is an inappropriate group to handle such a guy... calls for a few wise guys with a good word and a baseball bat

This does give me an idea for a new show: Animal Planet's Aquarium Rescue!

Give it a few more years - when I was a kid, it was considered acceptable to keep turtles (and lizards) in tiny little plastic cages. Folks are slowly beginning to realize that critters have feelings too! I'm hoping, in the next 30-40 years I might have left to me, to see fish added to the list of critters the ASPCA care about... I really like the idea for that show, BTW, maybe fishlore folk can produce it ourselves and post it on Facebook!

 

ClaI'm them all and see if u can't turn their fates around

 

Kapitalfisht , do you think I'm being optimistic about the future regard for pet fish or my possible life span?

 

Kapitalfisht I love your TV show idea! I'd totally watch it.

Simply rescuing a neglected tank is a rewarding but slow process usually. You'd have to have some conflict in the story to really sell it. Hey! Maybe it could be like one of those intervention type shows where the family shows up all at once to try to convince the person with a problem that they need to go to rehab, only this time it would be to accept help with their fish. There would be tears and yelling and then the resolution where the aquarium owner accepts help and everybody hugs and cries and the fish are saved.

ROLL CREDITS!

 

Kapitalfisht I love your TV show idea! I'd totally watch it.

Simply rescuing a neglected tank is a rewarding but slow process usually. You'd have to have some conflict in the story to really sell it. Hey! Maybe it could be like one of those intervention type shows where the family shows up all at once to try to convince the person with a problem that they need to go to rehab, only this time it would be to accept help with their fish. There would be tears and yelling and then the resolution where the aquarium owner accepts help and everybody hugs and cries and the fish are saved.

ROLL CREDITS!

You forgot to lock the problem person in a filthy, stinky bathroom for 5 hours so they could get a taste of what their fish are experiencing... there sure as heck would be tears, then, I betcha!ead:

 

Kapitalfisht , do you think I'm being optimistic about the future regard for pet fish or my possible life span?

Hahahahaha I **** near spat out my coffee all over my desk when I read this! That didn't even occur to me when I used that optimistic rainbow button, which was totally meant for the state of responsible fish keeping.

 

Nah, a closet! Toilets can flush away the waste, tanks can't

 

Kapitalfisht I love your TV show idea! I'd totally watch it.

Simply rescuing a neglected tank is a rewarding but slow process usually. You'd have to have some conflict in the story to really sell it. Hey! Maybe it could be like one of those intervention type shows where the family shows up all at once to try to convince the person with a problem that they need to go to rehab, only this time it would be to accept help with their fish. There would be tears and yelling and then the resolution where the aquarium owner accepts help and everybody hugs and cries and the fish are saved.

ROLL CREDITS!

I think there's an Emmy nomination in our future!

 

Hahahahaha I near spat out my coffee all over my desk when I read this! That didn't even occur to me when I used that optimistic rainbow button, which was totally meant for the state of responsible fish keeping.

No problem - along with wrinkles and health problems, one develops a sense of humor in old age - it is very necessary when things start to get creaky!

Nah, a closet! Toilets can flush away the waste, tanks can't

A closet full of week old used diapers!!!

 

Holy fish detritus! Sorry about my "trusted adult" comment earlier, but the way you were talking about her, I was figuring she was 13 years old, tops! I don't know what to suggest, now... if she's a pharmacy major, I would assume that she would understand basic chemistry, but maybe I'd be making a donkey's butt out of myself...


Whoops, sorry, I didn't mean any insult to the 13 year olds on the forum - you sound awesome! I hope these folks are paying you!!

Haha thanks! I agree completely; she needs to grow up!

 

A closet full of week old used diapers!!!

I think that violates the Geneva Convention! Ewww.

 

At the very least I would try to re-home the gold fish, 10 gallon tank is not big enough for it as it matures. Second I would help her perform the required maintenance and hope that when she see's how happier the fish are that she will understand. Good Luck.

 

No problem - along with wrinkles and health problems, one develops a sense of humor in old age - it is very necessary when things start to get creaky!

That's what WD-40 is for right??

 

After reading this from top to bottom the only advice that I have for you Fahn is to talk to her for the last time and explain that how ammonia and nitrite is toxic( if she is a 22 year old pharmacy she must know about how toxic they are) and at the end tell her about the fishes age if she accepted then great if she don't then ignore her this might be cruel but for this level of stubbornness I think its the only way hopefully after some fish death she may come to logic or she will get tired of this and she won't get fish after that
Note: I might be wrong but I think there might be jealousy involved you said you have high tech planted tank those tanks are really breath taking. I have sister too ( she is 16) but she always jealous about my coin and car model collection since 7

 

Rehome the real fish, replace them with fake fish (like this: ), then sit back and see how long it takes her to notice...

lol

 

Here is her tank as it is currently. The cory and pleco are hiding.

 

After reading this from top to bottom the only advice that I have for you Fahn is to talk to her for the last time and explain that how ammonia and nitrite is toxic( if she is a 22 year old pharmacy she must know about how toxic they are) and at the end tell her about the fishes age if she accepted then great if she don't then ignore her this might be cruel but for this level of stubbornness I think its the only way hopefully after some fish death she may come to logic or she will get tired of this and she won't get fish after that
Note: I might be wrong but I think there might be jealousy involved you said you have high tech planted tank those tanks are really breath taking. I have sister too ( she is 16) but she always jealous about my coin and car model collection since 7

This conversation took place last night:

me - What are you going to do when your goldfish is fully grown? He'll be nearly grapefruit sized.
sister - Eh, he won't get that big.
me - You know they can live for more than 10 years, right? If you take care of them they live a long time. Plecos live for 10 or 15 years.
sister - Ours don't!
me - Why did you even buy fish...?

This is the kind of person we're dealing with. The fish are decorative, nothing more. She doesn't care about their overall well-being or seeing them flourish. She bought a bunch of inexpensive fish and put them in a glass box. I'll try explaining the nitrogen cycle to her and see if she understands the important of keeping their water clean, but she'll probably speak to me in the same condescending, indifferent tone she always does and tell me that she doesn't care and that the fish are fine. After all, if they die, then they die...

 

She should NOT be allowed to keep fish. I am sorry you have to witness this and feel/be so helpless. That's just really sad. I would have a very hard time being you in this situation!!

 

This conversation took place last night:

me - What are you going to do when your goldfish is fully grown? He'll be nearly grapefruit sized.
sister - Eh, he won't get that big.
me - You know they can live for more than 10 years, right? If you take care of them they live a long time. Plecos live for 10 or 15 years.
sister - Ours don't!
me - Why did you even buy fish...?

This is the kind of person we're dealing with. The fish are decorative, nothing more. She doesn't care about their overall well-being or seeing them flourish. She bought a bunch of inexpensive fish and put them in a glass box. I'll try explaining the nitrogen cycle to her and see if she understands the important of keeping their water clean, but she'll probably speak to me in the same condescending, indifferent tone she always does and tell me that she doesn't care and that the fish are fine. After all, if they die, then they die...

I think you're fighting a losing battle and are risking your own mental health by arguing with your sister about this. If you two are living with your folks, I think the only thing you can do is enlist your parents to your side of this controversy and have them put their foot down. If she wants to live under their roof, she needs to properly tend to any pets she has - if she won't, then she either has to move out so the rest of you don't have to witness her neglect or give the fish away. Though I strongly suspect your parents will not want to get involved. You could show your Dad this thread, since he commented that the fish looked better after you did a water change, but if he's anything like my Dad was, he might just get ticked off because you hung up their dirty laundry on the internet - not that I blame you, of course! My son was keeping his fish badly way back when, and I ended up taking over the fishkeeping chores (it's how I ended up in the hobby, actually!)... would your Dad be willing to do that? It's his house, and he's well within his rights to take over his daughter's tank if she's not interested in tending to it...

How soon before you can afford YOUR own place? That may be the best thing for your sanity...

 

I wonder how you can bring your concerns into her sphere of understanding? Hmm...

What kind of pharmacy course is she taking? If it's the full university-level course to become a dispensing pharmacist then she needs to take chemistry and biology. Maybe show an interest in those and ask some questions so that you can better understand your own hobby. Act like she knows more than you do (I suspect it's the other way around but you need to not make her feel defensive) and ask questions related to the nitrogen cycle.

You could probably find a way to ask questions about biology and biochemistry (toxins?) and possibly even touch on ethics which should be a part of her training.

 

I think you're fighting a losing battle and are risking your own mental health by arguing with your sister about this. If you two are living with your folks, I think the only thing you can do is enlist your parents to your side of this controversy and have them put their foot down. If she wants to live under their roof, she needs to properly tend to any pets she has - if she won't, then she either has to move out so the rest of you don't have to witness her neglect or give the fish away. Though I strongly suspect your parents will not want to get involved. You could show your Dad this thread, since he commented that the fish looked better after you did a water change, but if he's anything like my Dad was, he might just get ticked off because you hung up their dirty laundry on the internet - not that I blame you, of course! My son was keeping his fish badly way back when, and I ended up taking over the fishkeeping chores (it's how I ended up in the hobby, actually!)... would your Dad be willing to do that? It's his house, and he's well within his rights to take over his daughter's tank if she's not interested in tending to it...

How soon before you can afford YOUR own place? That may be the best thing for your sanity...

Nobody cares about the tanks except me. Nobody is willing to listen to me or take my side on the matter. I am told to drop the issue and just let her take care of it as she sees fit. I've even offered to buy her tank from her in the past (when she kept everything in a FIVE GALLON full of clown puke gravel) but no luck.

Unemployed and the job search isn't going great. I have this semester of college plus 2 more, so I'll be graduating at the end of the year... :/

 

Maybe you could find a place to put the fish and then tell her that you already found the places. Tell her how much it hurts you to see them like that, and that if she really loves you she'll let you take care of the fish, because they aren't just decorations. They're animals. They have souls.

 

Consider how many other tanks are out there in similar circumstances. You can't save them all, or even any significant number of them and more are being sold all the time! Take a deep breath, do what you can, but don't beat yourself up for what you can't, because you can't do it all. Educate others when you can but recognize that not everyone wants to be educated.

How's that serenity prayer go? Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the thing I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those who **** me off

 

A pharmacy major should have a basic chemistry understanding.
I'd passive aggressively leave aquarium literature highlighting the nitrogen cycle all over. In the bathroom, taped to the door, magnet on the fridge, etc.
Her problem is willful ignorance. The solution is unwillful education

 

You know, my opinion is that you have done all you could. We've given you suggestions on what to do, if your parents or responsible adult cannot do anything, or anyone else cannot help, its time for you to just let it go and move on. Let her take the consequences of her actions and you cannot enable her. By doing so, you will give her the power to do this to you and everyone else she encounters/will encounter in her adult life. As sad as the situation it is, its just time to not interfere and let her be. You've already given us all the objections to everything anyone has given you suggestions on so my feeling is, its just time to cut the losses!

Good luck!

 

A pharmacy major should have a basic chemistry understanding.
I'd passive aggressively leave aquarium literature highlighting the nitrogen cycle all over. In the bathroom, taped to the door, magnet on the fridge, etc.
Her problem is willful ignorance. The solution is unwillful education

It doesn't matter whether she is ignorant or not. She obviously could care less about the fish. Passive aggressiveness is absolutely the worst thing to do. It won't solve anything and will just **** the other person off. Not what you want to do, especially if living with the person. Better to be more upfront, which The OP has already done. But again, what's the chance of making a person suddenly care about something they didn't before? Probably close to zero.

 

In the real world, I agree with you.
I was (mostly) joking.
But we're talking about sisters.
You're right- there's no way to change her mind. She already tried the upfront thing. And her sister is a jerk.
The next best thing is to make her see how wrong she is, and to be annoying about it.
Like a good sister.

 

In the real world, I agree with you.
I was (mostly) joking.
But we're talking about sisters.
You're right- there's no way to change her mind. She already tried the upfront thing. And her sister is a jerk.
The next best thing is to make her see how wrong she is, and to be annoying about it.
Like a good sister.

I'm a man lol!

 

Well, I'm not. I can only give advice about sisters.
In my experience, brothers stomp and hit stuff if they can't fix the problem- Sisters manipulate. Sisters usually get their way in my family. Lol

One time, as a child- after screaming at me that I was wrong, my brother taped a note to my door that said "you suck, you stupid piece of stinky stuff". And he told me why. It was amazing. I laughed. Points for alliteration. And I did what he wanted. From then on he taped notes all over. It was passive aggression at it's finest. Sometimes it was funny, mostly just obnoxious, but I swear it worked. Nagging never does, but gently making someone see they're a jerk- can.
There's 2 issues here:
1) the sister who doesn't care at all about creatures she's committed to looking after. Which sucks.
2) sibling dynamics. She can't admit she's wrong. Having fun with that cannot be the worst thing in the world.

So, some people have suggested you've done all you can and to let it go. Some suggest lying and stealing the fish. Some direct approach, some insincerity or manipulation. None of us are wrong. it's what's worked for us. In the end it's your sister and your sanity. Historically speaking- what works?

 

Well, I'm not. I can only give advice about sisters.
In my experience, brothers stomp and hit stuff if they can't fix the problem- Sisters manipulate. Sisters usually get their way in my family. Lol

One time, as a child- after screaming at me that I was wrong, my brother taped a note to my door that said "you suck, you stupid piece of stinky stuff". And he told me why. It was amazing. I laughed. Points for alliteration. And I did what he wanted. From then on he taped notes all over. It was passive aggression at it's finest. Sometimes it was funny, mostly just obnoxious, but I swear it worked. Nagging never does, but gently making someone see they're a jerk- can.
There's 2 issues here:
1) the sister who doesn't care at all about creatures she's committed to looking after. Which sucks.
2) sibling dynamics. She can't admit she's wrong. Having fun with that cannot be the worst thing in the world.

So, some people have suggested you've done all you can and to let it go. Some suggest lying and stealing the fish. Some direct approach, some insincerity or manipulation. None of us are wrong. it's what's worked for us. In the end it's your sister and your sanity. Historically speaking- what works?

Hmmm... maybe the passive aggressive approach might work - I've found that sometimes dropping suggestions eventually works with some of my family members. But if she DOES start doing things right, make sure you pretend it was all her idea, or it will backfire (this I know from experience)!

 

I believe this is lot deeper than a fish issue and it sounds like your relationship with her and the rest of your family is set. she would happily see those fish suffer and die rather than give in, agree shes wrong or be reasonable with you at at all. shes gotta know what shes doing is wrong yet she will slowly kill those fish to see you slowly suffer.

 

I'm a man lol!

Believe me, you're lucky - my brothers are way easier to get along with than my sister... though I'm a tomboy, so maybe that makes things different...

 

I believe this is lot deeper than a fish issue and it sounds like your relationship with her and the rest of your family is set. she would happily see those fish suffer and die rather than give in, agree shes wrong or be reasonable with you at at all. shes gotta know what shes doing is wrong yet she will slowly kill those fish to see you slowly suffer.

 

Unemployed and the job search isn't going great. I have this semester of college plus 2 more, so I'll be graduating at the end of the year... :/

I believe this is lot deeper than a fish issue and it sounds like your relationship with her and the rest of your family is set. she would happily see those fish suffer and die rather than give in, agree shes wrong or be reasonable with you at at all. shes gotta know what shes doing is wrong yet she will slowly kill those fish to see you slowly suffer.

I think Scutly makes a good point... do you have friends who'd like to be roomies? I remember crowded, but happy, apartments during the late 70's to early 80's. We didn't have much stuff, and ate a lot of beans, but we could live as we wished! With enough people sharing the rent, even a burger flipper job might hack it for now (though times are different than they were when I was younger, I realize - I was married, had a baby, and another on the way by the time I was your sister's age, and we were running a computer repair shop out of our tiny rented apartment... while I was still finishing up my bachelor's degree!). Otherwise, I would make like a hermit and spend as much time away from your sister as possible. Where is her tank? Do you each have your own room? Perhaps your parents can at least make her keep her tank out of view of the rest of the family. I know it sounds awful, but you have to do something to preserve your own sanity - it sounds like your sister's gotten to the point where she may be (even unconsciously) abusing her fish just to see you jump. Maybe if you at least pretend to ignore the situation, she'll lose interest in the fish... maybe at that point, if she decides she needs cash for something, she may even take you up on your offer to buy her set-up from her.

But you need to remember the serenity prayer someone mentioned earlier (except not the killing the annoying people part!); if you can't do anything about a situation, you have to accept that fact and not drive up your blood pressure trying. Do something for YOURSELF at this point... there are probably counselors at your school's health services; if you were my daughter, I would advise you to visit someone there and have a good talk, for your own peace of mind (then again, if I WERE your Mom, your sister would be in big doo-doo right now, but my hubby would definitely object to adopting more kids at our age!!!!). Good luck to you...

 

Well, I'm done. I was told by my brother I'm coming off as condescending about the tanks.

Also, those fish are gonna die. The minnows are pale, Cory is lethargic and the goldfish has reddened gills. Yesterday I did a 50% water change with a gravel vac and added Prime and stability. This morning, after noticing the fish's condition, I did a test. Ammonia is between 2 and 4 ppm less than 24 hours later. There is no way her small, uncycled filter will keep up.

I'm expecting dead fish by Wednesday.

 

You have a rotten relationship if you are complaining about it online. It's a completely adversarial dynamic. She's more likely to adjust her practices if you leave her alone than if you keep fighting. The fish are probably doomed. Save your relationship with your sister, if you can.

It's no use throwing gasoline on a fire.

 

You have a rotten relationship if you are complaining about it online. It's a completely adversarial dynamic. She's more likely to adjust her practices if you leave her alone than if you keep fighting. The fish are probably doomed. Save your relationship with your sister, if you can.

It's no use throwing gasoline on a fire.

You can't give up on the fish though! If a fish, or any animal is still alive there is still a chance to save it and give it a better quality of life. If you were the fish I believe you wouldn't want people to just give up on you and not help you. When it comes to pets humans are the only advocate for them, too bad they can't speak our language

Most of the time a person studying science doesn't know much about the hobby! There have been many people here complaining how their biology teacher has an overstock tank or doesn't take good care of the tank.

I agree with others of how you should try to be less offensive to your sister since she feels insecured she will be defensive and just say no to everything you say. LOL, I have a older sister in which we sometimes argue...when I start throwing out facts she gets physical! I'm also the only one who cares about fish and such, even though my mom has a phd in biology she doesn't know much of the care of fish

I think fixing the relationship with your sister will be a start. Speak calmly, in any argument anytime someone raise their voice or have a "argument tone" it normally doesn't get anywhere. Ask her about why she thinks this way

Good luck! Hopefully the fish doesn't have to die in order for her to realize that what you said was right , too many fish die from neglect in this hobby

 

She is literally abusing animals and I think that your sister should listen to you since you are related. It really puzzles me why she wouldn't want a free tank and help with maintenance since you can see how bad the fish are. When she says stuff like " I don't want help" ask her why? And on one day go upto her and say something like "hey I've just found a great fish forum you would like" maybe having a friendly approach and subtlety recommending fish sites to her would make her feel less like your trying to instruct her and help her?