Freshwater sump?!

So I posted my recent Craigslist purchase in the saltwater beginners forum but after reading a lot about saltwater tanks I'm a bit affraid to start one. (Still on the fence)

However My recent purchase included a 60 galloncorner tank, with a sump of unknown size. (Everclear 75wd sump?) stand, uv filter, protien skimmer etc)

Anyways. I already have a 90g bowfront with a fluval 305 on it that's been running for 3-4 weeks now with cichlids in it.
Thinking about making this new tank into another fw tank with a sump filtration??

The sump has the overflow pipe coming down right above a slide out tray with a bunch of little holes in it-that looks like it drips the water evently over the next later which is full of bio balls, then below the bio balls is a large holed screen that holds the bio balls up from the bottom of the tank about 4" and on the bottom of the tank would be my pump.

My thoughts are to put some kind of mechanical filter (filter floss or polyester fiber) into the top drip tray so that as the water comes in it gets filtered before it drips onto the bio balls?

But I don't feel like that alone would add much filtration?

Any other ideas on how to set this up?

Here's pics
Tray pulled out-to show its capable of sliding out to clean.


Then from the side-there's a large hole drilled into the side? Not sure why??

 

Welcome to the forum, your first tank has only been up for 3-4 weeks, how did you cycle it, do you know about the nitrogen cycle, I know nothing about pumps, hopefully someone will help there but I'm posting so that this thread doesn't get lost in the other posts

 

With the exception of a protein skimmer there's really not that much difference. Yes to filter floss or batting. You can purchase cheap poly-fil batting maybe from Walmart or wherever you are. Please fill out your profile so others aren't confused about what you know or what is available to you. As for the bio balls you can use them but personally I'd swap them out for bio ceramic rings or Seachem Matrix. That hole you mentioned seems to either feed a refugium area or as a bypass in case the bottom area gets clogged. Or maybe it's an air intake port for aerobic bacteria.

 

Thanks for te quick replys here.

Yes I'm aware of the nitrogen cycle. I bought the tank from my neighbor who had it running prior to me buying it. He had a fluval 305 still running on a small tank with his cichlids in it that he gave to me. We filled my tank with tape water, decholoronized it, put the fluval on and I threw in a bottle of "quick start" in a bottle to help a little. I left it run for a few days and put a couple cichlids and a pleco in first. Got my water tested a few times at petco and all is well.
Week and a half later got more fish and kept getting my water tested. All is good.
Now I have an API test kit so Ive been testing water regularly and all my levels have remained stable. I'm assuming the bb in the fluval helped jump start the tank!

I'm completely new to aquariums. The 90g was my first ever fish tank and so far I'm really enjoying the hobby!

So with this 60 gallonw/ sump you would put polyfil in that slide out tray? (I do already have the polyfil I bought from Walmart for my 90g)
It seems it'll be REALLY hard to get to the bio balls once this sump is back under the stand-its a really tight fit with very little room.

You say ceramic ring would be better then the bio balls? Are they much better (enough for me to toss the bio balls and pay up for a bunch of the rings??)

 

Yes, you put the poly-fil in the slide out tray. Make it slightly larger since they shrink over time. Ceramic rings are definitely far better (significantly more surface area due to micro pores). Though I do find Seachem Matrix significantly better than ceramic rings. Replacing the bio balls is up to you since it's such a waste to toss them. Other people even use plastic dish scrubbers instead of bio balls in their wet/dry setup. Wet/Dry Type is what your filter is called. It's fine if the bio balls or whatever media you decide use are hard to get to. You don't want to clean them too often and you don't ever wash them under chlorinated tap water. If you need to rinse them you can use old tank water or any water that has no detergent, antiseptic, or anything that would kill bacteria.

 

Yes, you put the poly-fil in the slide out tray. Make it slightly larger since they shrink over time. Ceramic rings are definitely far better (significantly more surface area due to micro pores). Though I do find Seachem Matrix significantly better than ceramic rings. Replacing the bio balls is up to you since it's such a waste to toss them. Other people even use plastic dish scrubbers instead of bio balls in their wet/dry setup. Wet/Dry Type is what your filter is called. It's fine if the bio balls or whatever media you decide use are hard to get to. You don't want to clean them too often and you don't ever wash them under chlorinated tap water. If you need to rinse them you can use old tank water or any water that has no detergent, antiseptic, or anything that would kill bacteria.

Good to know! Is only having the one small tray with the poly fil in enough mechanical filtration for this tank? I just feel like its not very much mechanical and a LOT of bio,
Should anything go in the bottom layer with the pump or should that be empty?
I'm going to go to lowes in just a few minutes to get some pvc fittings to setup the sump pump.

Debating substrate on the bottom of this tank. Bags of gravel from petco are ridiculously expensive for rocks! Lol.

I really appreciate the help!! This has all definitely been a learning experience but a fun one!

 

You can probably setup the bottom as a refugium with substrate and plants or macro algae (moss or subwassertang) but you'll have to provide proper lighting in the 6500k spectrum range. Then you set your pump in a tupperware or something to prevent substrate from getting inside. Biological is more important than mechanical anyway so the tray should be enough along with your canister filter.

 

My canister filter WON'T be on this tank.
My fluval is on my 90g tank.

Sorry my post was a bit confusing with mixing my two setups into one post.

 

My canister filter WON'T be on this tank.
My fluval is on my 90g tank.

Sorry my post was a bit confusing with mixing my two setups into one post.

I see. Even though, I think you'll be fine and quite happy with your sump. I take it the return pump will be providing all of the flow in this tank?

 

Yes the sumps return pump will be the only filtration and the only flow in this tank.
Just finished plumbing the pump and I'm filling the tank as I type this! So far so good

Tank is up and running. Super toilet flush noise overflow!!
Will be doing the "durso" mod I just read about to eliminate that.
I have the sump about half full for now just because I'm still playing with water levels incase of a power outage (I DON'T need my house to flood again-recently had a plumbing issue and woke up to a swimming pool on my living room)

With the sump half full only the lower 2-3" of bio balls are submerged in the wate (even when its topped off to where it should be only half the bio balls will be soakin in the water)
Is that good?

Ill be getting some ammonia to start my fishless cycle tomorrow.

And I got some pea gravel from lowes (two big bags for $8!) read of some people using it with no problems. I'm going to rinse them off real well and use em! Way cheaper then $17/10lb bag for gravel at petco!!!

 

You can turn off the pump and wait a couple of minutes or until water stops flowing into the sump. Remember if you did not install a check valve along the return line or drill a siphon break, water will flow back to the sump via the return line and not the overflow. Once the water stops flowing back into the sump, you can add enough water into the sump as you like. This will be the maximum amount of water your system can hold. Now turn the pump back on and wait until the water level stops dropping in the sump. Mark this level so you can top off evaporated water up to this line.

With the bio balls partially submerged and most above water, this is how the wet/dry system works. Or else they wouldn't call it a wet/dry, LOL. Water should just be raining down on the bio balls above water. It's okay if some of them are submerged.

 

I've turned the power off to the pump a couple times to see what happened. I know I can add a couple more gallons to the sump to top it off safely.

I didn't add an antisiphone or still a hole in my return line. It comes up from the bottom 90's over and has an adjustable tip to menuver the flow of water where I want it.
When I shut the pump off the water drains down to below the overflow and the return lines drains and that's it (not Sure why the return line doesn't start a siphon-maybe its the half loop I have in the nylon tubing going from the pump-or the adjustable nozzle sucks in some air. No idea! Lol.

 

I've turned the power off to the pump a couple times to see what happened. I know I can add a couple more gallons to the sump to top it off safely.

I didn't add an antisiphone or still a hole in my return line. It comes up from the bottom 90's over and has an adjustable tip to menuver the flow of water where I want it.
When I shut the pump off the water drains down to below the overflow and the return lines drains and that's it (not Sure why the return line doesn't start a siphon-maybe its the half loop I have in the nylon tubing going from the pump-or the adjustable nozzle sucks in some air. No idea! Lol.

If the adjustable nozzle is sucking air you'll be able to hear it slurping. Is it a loc-line style? It may already have a hole. Or leak somewhere you can bend it. If the water line stops below the overflow grating then the return line hole or leak must be very close to the water line.

 

If the adjustable nozzle is sucking air you'll be able to hear it slurping. Is it a loc-line style? It may already have a hole. Or leak somewhere you can bend it. If the water line stops below the overflow grating then the return line hole or leak must be very close to the water line.

Had to google loc-line style and google s shows similar nozzles to mine-so yes? Lol.

I also noticed today while making a durso standpipe, that my return pvc where is connects to the "loc line" was spraying a little water-I'm guessing that's where my air enters when the pump turns off.

I rinsed my gravel and through a bag into the tank. Clouded up my water badly
Letting that settle and I know ill catch for this but, I got 10 goldfish to cycle the tank with. I have ammonia reduced that ill be using to help out as well. We'll see how it goes!

Then I get to decide what type of fish I want to actually stock in this tank since my other tank is cichlids, a pleco an a red tail shark.

 

I read that a sump increases the amount of water. Example: A 20 gallon long with a 10 gallon sump would equal a 30 gallon tank. Would that also increase the bio-load/number of inhabitants I can keep?

 

A sump gives you more bioload space, but it doesn't give you more actual space. You could still only stock for a 20 gal long in terms of fish size and space.

 

To the best of my knowledge, a sump is an aquarium normally placed beneath your main tank, in which water water is siphoned from the main tank to the sump, and returned to the main tank with the aid of a pump. Obviously, you must be very careful to achieve and maintain an equilibrium in flow rates so that neither tank over flows.
The sump is normally filled with vascular plants, or sometimes algae; as you normal biobed serving the main tank should reduce both ammonia and nitrite to zero (given that most people over filter as a matter of normal tank maintenance), the sumps main advantage is to increase the amount of plants available to process nitrate.
This would result in your having to do fewer W/Cs, although some will be needed to keep the tank clean looking.
I think that rather than looking at it as a way to be able to over stock a tank, its best use might be to remove nitrate in tanks holding nitrate sensitive fish like Rams, or, if used in larger tanks, to maintain fish like Lake Tanganyikans, which are both very nitrate sensitive, and sensitive to even medium sized W/Cs. (they prefer W/Cs of about 10%, so anything that reduces nitrate and the need for very frequent W/Cs is to their benefit).
You could overstock, I suppose (although there are other reasons to avoid doing so), and using a sump for the purposes above is just my preference. rick

 

Thank you. And my main concern is ammonia, pH, nitrates, nitrites and maybe hardness. My water is "Hard" the last time I checked it, although that was before the upgrade to a 20 long. How would I properly set up a sump? I don't actually plan on doing it until I have a 55GL or larger.

 

Sorry, can't help you with the ins and outs of setting up a sump just yet, as I am still at the 'planning to' stage (meaning next week or next decade), and have just been reading up on it. I'm 58 yrs. old, and my back is arguing strongly for lowering tank maintenance, as I have quite a few to maintain.
Moving to a 20l will not effect your water hardness; that is more a function of source water, and rock/substrate type. Best of luck, rick

 

I cannot imagine needing a sump on a freshwater aquarium unless it's for fun/practice/project. I'm not sure a sump is worth the hassle/risk. For filtration It's hard to beat an Aquaclear HOB for customization, reliability, and ease of maintenance. Canister filters are great if you don't like HOB aesthetics, but maintenance can be a pain depending design. Of course sumps are great for hiding heaters etc...

 

I cannot imagine needing a sump on a freshwater aquarium

They add water volume to the system which is always better. You can plant them if you have fish that are not plant friendly to reduce nitrates. You can put the heaters in them. They are the easiest filter to clean. The reasons to have one on a freshwater would be the same to use them on a marine tank. No matter the display tank size, a sump is always beneficial. They are cheap and easy to DIY too.

 

I cannot imagine needing a sump on a freshwater aquarium unless it's for fun/practice/project. I'm not sure a sump is worth the hassle/risk. For filtration It's hard to beat an Aquaclear HOB for customization, reliability, and ease of maintenance. Canister filters are great if you don't like HOB aesthetics, but maintenance can be a pain depending design. Of course sumps are great for hiding heaters etc...

I completely disagree. BDpups is right, a sump is always beneficial compared to other forms of filtration. I can't imagine relying on just an HOB for filtration. I haven't used an HOB in over 15 years. I know they've come a long way since then, but they're still very limited on space, promote evaporation, require more frequent maintenance, and are generally noisier when compared to a decent canister. I'll stick to canisters on my smaller tanks (under 75g) and a sump on my 175g...

 

I read that a sump increases the amount of water. Example: A 20 gallon long with a 10 gallon sump would equal a 30 gallon tank. Would that also increase the bio-load/number of inhabitants I can keep?

Your sump will not hold 10 gallons. Figure it to hold half of the sumps volume. So adding a 10 gallon sump to a 20 gallon tank would increase the volume to approximately 25 gallons, give or take.

And it will help to keep the ammonia and nitrite in check, like any filter. But as far as increasing the number of fish, you are still dealing with the same size display tank. So not really. If you are wanting to get into large fish, or African cichlids that you need to pack the tank with, they will definitely help in that you can fill them with more media than most other filters. And if you make one, they are cheaper than buying a monster size canister that may hold less media depending on the sump size of course.

 

My understanding is that on a 20 gallon a sump is overkill. That said it is exactly what I did for the fun of it. I designed my own filter, installed my own overflows and am going to start making my own food. This is my first so I cannot boast knowledge but I can attest to what I learned.
also built my own stand.

I stocked/am stocking it with trumpet snails, rcs, and guppies. It is also planted. My thinking is that the filter floss, on carbon, on ceramic with a mesh bag of pot scrubbies is enough filtering and water volume to allow a larger stock of guppies. The snails and shrimp... magically have not produced any bioload to speak of ( still low numbers)

To balance the intake and out I just made sure I had double what I needed and a back up. When I turn it off I let sump fill so that it really can't overflow and main aquarium is almost full. I'd say with substrate on top and evaporation the sump (10 gal) stays right around 3/ 4 full so probably right around 25 gal.

So far so good stand cost 70 to build to include 1000 lbs in caster support and 2x4, pvc 30 bucks to include tinkering costs and aquarium 35. Sand is #20 pool filter sand. Airport for my attorney at algae scrubbers in sump 30 bucks and 40 for the heater. All of which is good for up to 150 gallons.

 

Wow. You seem to know a lot about the ins and outs of sumps. What's the multicolored thing in your sump?

 

Wow. You seem to know a lot about the ins and outs of sumps. What's the multicolored thing in your sump?

I claim no knowledge I just like to tinker. Some of the aquarist purists think me akin to dr. Frankenstein so take from my experience what you can verify and use. Fish are for kids, ecosystem, fluid mechanics and infasteucture design are for dad.

Those are pot scrubbies. You can get them at the dollar store in 6 or 8 packs. Theory being that like bioballs they have a lot of surface area... but cost less.

Funny thing is the aquarium cycle is nearly identical to the compost cycle, bacteria do the same thing and in some very limited ways are interchangeable with aquarium bacteria.

I fill my time with figuring things out instead of beer. It's a curse.

 

Lol. I can understand that

 

I guess my take on it is for this there are no clear cut answers for the most part.
How much space do fish need?
-depends on water quality, volume and aquarium size.
- what is good water quality?
-there is no defenitivley answer. The hobby says 0 ammonia 0 nitrite less than 20 nitrate ppm. Is that correct? No not really. Those numbers have been debated since the hobby learned to track them in the '60's. Some say .25 ppm nitrite is terrible and lethal. Yet fish survive it for at least a period of time and the industry like tetra says that 1.5ppm ammonia or nitrite is fine for somewhat lengthy periods of time. If you list anything over 0 for an aquarist no further trouble shooting will be done the default is that your cycle is wrong fix that and your fish will be fine. Nitrates are survivable at very high levels, and for aquaponics that level is pushed very high. In an aquarium hobbyists will become critical at any above 20. Are they wrong? Not necessiarly.

-space some will say aquarium dimensions are not suitable. Take a betta for instance who's natural habitat is like 2 miles of rice patties. Then our debate is over if a 1 gallon is suitable or if you need 2.5 gallons minimum. Either answer is a fraction of what the species actually desires.
Does domestication have an effect? Almost certainly. Look at chickens, dogs, or even people who were once nomadic and now we cram thousands per square mile.

My thought on your question is that there is no good answer, I personally see no reason a sump could possibly have anything other than a positive effect on your goals.
Can you stock more? Probably.
How much? Depends on the fish.
Guppies can get very dense, or sparse. In the wild when predators are present they get very dense. When no predators are present they spread out and school less.

Put a betta in there and now you need more cubic inches to make guppies and betta safe together. Yet the guppies take up less space since something threatens them right? Put a betta alone and 5 gallons or less is fine. Guppies alone 5 to 10 gallons is fine. Put the two together and maybe 60 gallons is OK?

Stock guppies, trumpet snails and red cherry shrimp and arguably you can overstock with a sump (my current rig I'm building).

Play with it be creative. See what happens- probably kill some fish. Learn get better. again I'm not qualified to advise but who is? We can't even tell with any certainty how much ammonia in milliliters single fish produces on average really. Let alone assign a number to the bioload of a fish. It's all voodoo and dart boards haha.

 

Hello everyone, I'm here to discuss the idea of adding a sump below my 55 gallon tank. I've already thought about all that I need to add to get this done. I know that they are typically recommend for saltwater tanks to keep a more stable environment for both fish and coral but couldn't this also be true for freshwater fish as well? Not only would it help dilute the waste produced by the fish but also make maintenance easier as well as allow me to remove the equipment from my tank and place them in the sump. Since my tank has no overflow I would have to add an overflow box then add the tubing down to my old 35 gallon tank that would act as the sump, it would be divided into chambers including mechanical filtration media, bio balls for biological filtration and then the chamber right before the return pump could be a storage place for plants/and all the equipment, have all this flow into the last chamber containing the return pump and being pumped through plumbing back into the main tank. I would use glass panels for the baffles and also have one bubble trap right before being pumped into the main tank, use aqueon silicone to adhere the panels and an overflow box and pump rated for around 300 gph. What I wanted to know is if anyone has made their own sump and has any tips or recommendations for beginners like myself. Also if anyone has any ideas or suggestions I am more than welcome to new ideas and a fresh perspective!

 

First cheaper silicone can be used 100 percent silicone will work the same as long as there's no inhibitors. I use GE 100 percent on my freshwater sumps.
And yes I love my sump ànd theyre are very beneficial.

I had one on my 55. But from experience I prefer drilled tanks opposed to siphon overflows. If you could drill your tank that be the way to go. If not then overflow boxes are nice too.

Most will tell you to get a can or hob, but sump will create larger water column it will help keep parameters more stable.

Advice make sure to leave enoigh room in sump for power failures to the siphon will break before sump overflows. Dont skimp on overflow pipe size better to be to big then small. You want it to handle more the 300 gph. Id go with 1 inch but that's me you could be fine with 3/4 I wouldnt go smaller than that though.

Also watch joey diy king on youtube he has helped inspired me tons.

 

I'm going through the process of assembling a sump for my 44 gal tank too! Is your tank drilled, or are you going to do an HOB overflow? Mine is drilled with an overflox box.

One thing that sticks out to me is your pump. The 300 GPH doesn't sound like it'll be enough to pump up to your 55 gal. You want around 300 GPH at whatever height the top of the tank is at (so for my setup, head height is approximately 4 feet, and I'm looking for 250-300 GPH at 4'; the pump I'm getting is rated for 500 and something at 0 feet).

 

What's funny is Joey is what gave me the idea of a sump and I love his videos! But unfortunately my tank is not drilled and I wouldn't want to drill it considering it's already full and stocked. I am going to add a siphon overflow box, and so for a 35 gallon sump about how full should I fill it to leave enough room for a power outage, I recall hearing about it in one of Joeys videos and will probably re watch them when I get home but if you had an idea that'd be great. So how many gph would you recommend for the return pump I'll give some additional measurements when I get home. Also, should I look for a overflow box with 1 inch tubing, which I'm assuming would be rated for more than 300 gph correct?

 

Depends on the head height. Are you going with submersible or outside pumps? You can find info on the different pumps' GPH at certain heights. Determine what you want your turnover to be in your tank and match that GPH at the head height. If you want more than 300 GPH, then that overflow may be a little small.

And there are calculators you can use online to find out how much room you should leave in the sump.

 

Sounds good and I was definitely looking more along the lines of a submersible pump to take up less space under my stand. Any other advice you guys can think of?? I appreciate the help and advice so quickly!

 

TexasDomer is right as usual lol. IMO internal is better simply for one LESS placefor a leak. Since its a siphon pump id get the air water pump joey talks about to help prime the system when power fails or siphon breaks trust me I wish I would have gotten one.

 

Alright I'll look into it when I get home! Thank you guys again I'm sure I'll be back with more questions. I'll also post pictures and let you guys know how it turns out!

Do you guys recommend acrylic or glass baffles?? If glass how thick and what kind?

 

Glass wil. Work fine and bonds better to glass. Acrylic to glass via silicone would work but not be as sturdy and eventually give. Glass on glass with silicone. I go to lowes and get them to cut the sheets I think its 3/8".

 

Okay thank you again for the information!

 

Np willing to tell you what I know.

 

I recently posted a thread on my freshwater sump here on fishlore.com. ... I am posting on my phone so can't provide url easily... Might give you some ideas on pump, flow rate, overflow box etc.