Freshwater plants - algae or dying?

Hi,

So I’m on day 8 of fishless cycling my Fluval Spec 5 gallon with Fluval bio stratum substrate and 4 different plants. The two in the back are anubias and Java fern, but forget what the grassy stuff is planted up front as well as the plants I’ve wrapped around different places of the rock.

I’ve noticed what I assume is algae growth on the latter two. But can’t tell if it’s simply algae, or if parts of the plants are dying? Any suggestions on what I should do with them? The ones tied to the rock seem to be doing the worst out of all my plants but I’m pretty sure I remember the card it came with saying to not plant in substrate and either tie to rock or drift wood. I just want to make sure any plants in my tank are safe before I add my betta, snails and shrimp.

My parameters after dosing with ACE hardware ammonia and Tetra Safe Start, as of last night, are:

Ammonia 2ppm
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 10-20ppm
pH approx 6.4-6.6
Water temp - has been around 78-80, but noticed this morning it’s at 74, but I think that’s cause I need to top my tank off (cause the heater in my pump compartment isn’t completely submerged like it was before)

Also, can anyone tell if I’m getting close to being cycled?

Thank you everyone who takes the time to read this and reply!

 

Once that ammonia is gone, and the Nitrites jump and go to zero, the Nitrates should start to level off at 5-10ppm or even lower without fish.


Plants will go through a transitioning faze when placed in a different tank. Especially if the Anubias was grow in pots, then it will take time for it to transition to being submerged. Java fern as well even though they are always submerged in stores. Especially if its a newly cycling tank. Hard to get a foothold if things are fluctuating.

Sometimes when transferring Java fern to another tank some leaves will go black, develop little black dots..either start new little plantlets from those spots or shed those leaves entirely and start new leaves under the new conditions. Even slight pH difference can cause this.

Anubias does not appreciate high lighting, although there are some species like Congensis that can tolerate high lighting. Java fern is also not far off. You can float Anubias as well, given the lighting is at a considerable distance to prevent any melting, and it will do just fine. May even flower.

From the pics it looks like the plants stuck to rock are a stem plant? If so they should be in substrate. My bad if not.

Anubias and Java Fern do not require their roots to be planted. Although it doesn't hurt as long as the rhizome is above the surface.

As for cycling, water changes never hurt as long as they are not drastic amounts if its not needed. I would try to level the cycle by doing 25% wc and test.

I've no experience in using an ammonia product, and not in using a cycling product with an ammonia product. It may be that your just adding additional ammonia and its not allowing a full cycle to complete?

More will weigh in on this I hope

 

Are you asking if the plants are safe for the fish? Yes they are, even if algae is growing on them.

Hard to say how close you are without knowing the ammonia dosing details. Also, have you tested your source water for ammonia and nitrate? Are you using a water conditioner? Have ever had nitrites show up?

Keep an eye on the temps. An aquarium heater should not let the temp swing that much unless it's undersized. Also most heaters must be submerged and can fail if allowed to run when not submerged.

Your pH is at the low end for bottled bacteria to work, so don't depend on the promises of the fish store or Tetra. However, it will still cycle.

When cycling, and often for months afterwards, you can have all sorts of things (algae) growing. Much of it will come and go as the tank matures. You have low light plants. I would have the lights on 2-3 hours a day while cycling. I usually cycle with no lights or plants to avoid a lot of that early algae. Others fully plant first. More than one approach.

So back to your question about the cycle; what is your dosing and testing schedule.

No need for water change until cycle is finished. No need for fertilizer.

Don't clean anything during cycling.

I agree with above, those plants on the left look like stem plants. If so, they need to be planted into the substrate.

 

When cycling, and often for months afterwards, you can have all sorts of things (algae) growing.

Yes, diatom growth is very common in new setups. And Anubias is very susceptible to it. Typically due to high silicate content in water source.

 

Once that ammonia is gone, and the Nitrites jump and go to zero, the Nitrates should start to level off at 5-10ppm or even lower without fish.


Plants will go through a transitioning faze when placed in a different tank. Especially if the Anubias was grow in pots, then it will take time for it to transition to being submerged. Java fern as well even though they are always submerged in stores. Especially if its a newly cycling tank. Hard to get a foothold if things are fluctuating.

Sometimes when transferring Java fern to another tank some leaves will go black, develop little black dots..either start new little plantlets from those spots or shed those leaves entirely and start new leaves under the new conditions. Even slight pH difference can cause this.

Anubias does not appreciate high lighting, although there are some species like Congensis that can tolerate high lighting. Java fern is also not far off. You can float Anubias as well, given the lighting is at a considerable distance to prevent any melting, and it will do just fine. May even flower.

From the pics it looks like the plants stuck to rock are a stem plant? If so they should be in substrate. My bad if not.

Anubias and Java Fern do not require their roots to be planted. Although it doesn't hurt as long as the rhizome is above the surface.

As for cycling, water changes never hurt as long as they are not drastic amounts if its not needed. I would try to level the cycle by doing 25% wc and test.

I've no experience in using an ammonia product, and not in using a cycling product with an ammonia product. It may be that your just adding additional ammonia and its not allowing a full cycle to complete?

More will weigh in on this I hope

Thank you so much for your reply! I’ve been told I probably won’t even see nitrites at all during cycling since I’ve used the Tetra Safe Start (bottled bacteria), and that it will skip them and go straight to nitrates, which is what I’ve seen. But still haven’t seen the ammonia completely disappear in 24 hours from it being 1-2ppm. So that shows me it’s not fully cycled yet I guess.

I’ll leave plants as they are I suppose, unless I hear to do something different with the ones tied to rock.

 

Sometimes, with or without bottled bacteria, we don't see nitrites show up. It's not that they are not there, it's just that they are being processed into nitrates as quickly as they are being produced.

You didn't mention if you tested your source water. You need to know if there are ammonia or nitrate in you water when cycling a tank. People have shown the same test result as you are and assumed the cycle was close to done when in fact the nitrate was coming from their tap water and not from the cycling process.

Tap water is treated with chlorine or chloramine. If your water company uses chloramine, then when you add the water conditioner it breaks down the chloramine into chlorine and ammonia. The water conditioner then neutralizes the chlorine, but leave the ammonia in your water.

Your tank is definately not cycled. Don't get impatient. Bottled bacteria often does not work, so in the end people often end up cycling for 4-6 weeks anyway, which is normal.

 

Are you asking if the plants are safe for the fish? Yes they are, even if algae is growing on them.

Hard to say how close you are without knowing the ammonia dosing details. Also, have you tested your source water for ammonia and nitrate? Are you using a water conditioner? Have ever had nitrites show up?

Keep an eye on the temps. An aquarium heater should not let the temp swing that much unless it's undersized. Also most heaters must be submerged and can fail if allowed to run when not submerged.

Your pH is at the low end for bottled bacteria to work, so don't depend on the promises of the fish store or Tetra. However, it will still cycle.

When cycling, and often for months afterwards, you can have all sorts of things (algae) growing. Much of it will come and go as the tank matures. You have low light plants. I would have the lights on 2-3 hours a day while cycling. I usually cycle with no lights or plants to avoid a lot of that early algae. Others fully plant first. More than one approach.

So back to your question about the cycle; what is your dosing and testing schedule.

No need for water change until cycle is finished. No need for fertilizer.

Don't clean anything during cycling.

I agree with above, those plants on the left look like stem plants. If so, they need to be planted into the substrate.

Thanks for the reply! Yes I was partly asking if plants were safe for fish, and just making sure plants were doing ok or if they needed to be rearranged/removed. So I went ahead and removed that plant tied to rock and planted what was still salvageable into substrate. Left other plant as they were.

I have tested tap water and came back zero for ammonia and nitrates. I have also been using Seachem Prime for my dechlorinator. As far as ammonia dosages go, I started cycling with around 4ppm, then started going down several days into cycling and nitrates started going up. I also added the bottled bacteria a day after I added the ammonia. When ammonia dipped down to around 2ppm I added a bit more which put it out of range so did a small water change to bring back down to 4ppm. The last several days I haven’t added any more ammonia cause I’ve been told to just let it do it’s thing so it’s now been hovering around 2ppm. However, now that I’ve topped off my tank I checked parameters again and it’s now 1ppm with nitrates around 10ppm. Temp is also back up to around 78. I’ve never seen nitrites so far.

I think I’ll keep checking ammonia every day and as long as it’s no lower than 1ppm I’ll let it do it’s thing. And if I notice one day that it’s dropped to zero, then I’m assuming it’ll be cycled at that point? Then will do a small water change IF nitrates are higher than 20ppm before adding fish. Does that sound right?

Sometimes, with or without bottled bacteria, we don't see nitrites show up. It's not that they are not there, it's just that they are being processed into nitrates as quickly as they are being produced.

You didn't mention if you tested your source water. You need to know if there are ammonia or nitrate in you water when cycling a tank. People have shown the same test result as you are and assumed the cycle was close to done when in fact the nitrate was coming from their tap water and not from the cycling process.

Tap water is treated with chlorine or chloramine. If your water company uses chloramine, then when you add the water conditioner it breaks down the chloramine into chlorine and ammonia. The water conditioner then neutralizes the chlorine, but leave the ammonia in your water.

Your tank is definately not cycled. Don't get impatient. Bottled bacteria often does not work, so in the end people often end up cycling for 4-6 weeks anyway, which is normal.

Thank you for your reply! I just answered your questions in another reply I made if you don’t mind looking there. And yes it’s easy to want to add fish asap, but definitely want what’s best for the fish so I’m willing to wait as long as possible. Hopefully I’m getting somewhat close though

 

The only thing I would differently is when you think the cycle is done (ammonia at 0), test it by adding 1-2 ppm. If it's gone in 24 hours, and still no nitrite , it's cycled. Yes, then do a water change to remove nitrates.

 

The only thing I would differently is when you think the cycle is done (ammonia at 0), test it by adding 1-2 ppm. If it's gone in 24 hours, and still no nitrite , it's cycled. Yes, then do a water change to remove nitrates.

Ok perfect, I’ll follow your advice. Thanks!