Freak of Nature (ADF breeding)

Having bred ADFs for many years, I’ve seen a wide range of deformities, the most common of which involve malformed flippers. Fortunately, such deformities do not occur very often. But, currently I have a tadpole/froglet (not sure what to call it exactly), which has the strangest deformities, the likes of which I’ve never seen before. Whereas most tadpoles lose their tails at around five weeks old, this one, which I’ve named Snoopy, is now over 11 weeks old and still has not lost its tail. It also has what is referred to as an “oral disc deformity.” Its bottom jaw protrudes far forward, ironically, giving it a definite advantage over its siblings while feeding. The rest of its body, however, has developed normally and its siblings are all perfectly normal. Because Snoopy appears to be otherwise healthy, I could never bring myself to euthanize it, as other breeders probably would (I’m far too soft for that). So, if it survives (and sadly such froglets usually don’t for very long in my experience), Snoopy will eventually be moved to my “reject” tank, where it can live with retired breeders and other frogs I’ve bred which I considered unsaleable, but still able to live reasonably happy, normal lives, such as Snowflake, my “albino” ADF. Just thought I’d share my unusual, little freak of nature. - frogbreeder

 

Awww...poor little guy.
He's kinda cute in a freakish sort of way.

 

definitely a cutie!!! Lucky for him that he was born under your care - shame to think of the froglets euthanized because they aren't "perfect"

 

I have some platies like that. 2-3 of them have weird curved spines. It didn't develop until about month 2. I can't bring myself to kill them because they can swim fine but use their head to do so. They can keep up with their siblings and eat normally. I can't sell them that way, but I can keep them and let them live for as long as they can. I'm sure it will considerably shorten their lifespan though. One fish looks like an "L" but is otherwise healthy.

 

Awwwww! I actually love his little tail! He is cute! I havea a reject tank too where all my deformations from breeding go to live together. I just can't bring myself to kill them if they don't appear to be suffering. I hope he makes it. He is sweet looking.

 

Thanks guys. Yes, I guess Snoopy is pretty cute, in a weird, freakish sort of way. Looks more like a newt or salamander than a froglet. It’s very strange, indeed. I sure hope it survives. It’s definitely not lacking appetite; little bugger scoops twice as much food as its siblings. I’m so glad all of you agree that such animals deserve and should be given a chance to live, provided they are not ill or suffering – good for you. Admittedly though, as difficult as it is to do, I’d rather euthanize a creature than allow it to suffer. :'( I'm curious to learn Snoopy's sex and to know whether or not its tail will eventually disappear. But, there is no indication of this happening yet. Its tail doesn’t look ragged at the edges, as one would expect, when a tadpole is about to resorb its tail. So, I’ll just have to wait and see. I’ll keep you posted. – frogbreeder

 

Its weird.... as a scientific type, I say "that's not a mutation, that's evolution" :/

Very cute though. I can understand why you don't want him to breed or even try, and so keep him separately but in nature maybe the weird mouth would infact help them?

 

djsmiley2k: You're absolutely right. Survival of the fittest. In nature, Snoopy would have a definite advantage and such traits could be passed on to future generations. - frogbreeder

 

Looks a bit like a cousin of mine (and I agree, it looks more like a salamander or newt than a frog) ..

... still, very cute!

 

MzMolly65: - frogbreeder

 

Omg, you created a new species! lol
I wonder if, at some point any of his relatives had this malformation.

 

Lucy, that’s a very good question. Well, I can only go back two generations, but neither its parents, nor grandparents (on both sides) ever produced such a strange looking creature as Snoopy. Must be a new species. :-\ I have never even seen such a weird-looking ADF before, ever, and I have never had a tadpole that didn’t resorb its tail, sometime between the fifth and sixth week of life, before either. This is definitely a new situation for me. I do have another frog, which is unrelated to Snoopy, but also has a deformed lower jaw. Her name is Ophelia and she is one butt-ugly frog, but loveable all the same. She lives in my reject tank and is a real character, great personality. She has a receding bottom jaw, unlike Snoopy’s, which protrudes. I can’t wait to see what Snoopy will become. – frogbreeder

 

I love 'em!!!!!! both of them!!!!!!

 

I love that you have a tank for these special frogs.

 

I just love all their names .. Snowflake, Ophelia, Snoopy .. they all make me smile.

 

I guess when one suffers from MTS as severely as I do, one more aquarium doesn’t hurt. At any given time, my reject tank contains about a dozen deformed frogs and half a dozen or so retired breeders. I usually sell my retired breeders before they get too old, but occasionally I end up keeping them as pets. A few of the frogs in my reject tank are over ten years old now and still going strong. I’m just happy to know that I’m not the only one who keeps a reject tank, because I think all creatures are beautiful and deserve a fair chance, even if they’re not perfect, yes, even platies with curved spines and mutant ADFs. Besides, it sure makes it easier to tell them apart, something I can’t always do with the breeders and their offspring. - frogbreeder

 

Fascinating! I'd love to see a pic of snowflake too.

When I got my ADFs, I tried to have the store owner help me find two that I could tell apart, but they all looked the same. She joked, "Too bad one isn't missing a hand or something, then you could tell them apart." As it turns out, one hand of one frog didn't properly develop the webbing between the fingers, so they're all stuck together. However, on the light sand in their tank, one of them decided to change colors, so they are actually quite easy to tell apart otherwise anyway.

 

Yes, it can be very difficult to tell ADFs apart from one another sometimes. I usually look at the webbing between the rays of their rear flippers. Often, the streaks of pigment in the webbing are quite individualistic and can be used to identify them. Sometimes, their eyes are very unique, too. I have had frogs with the condition you have described, where their fingers lack webbing and are fused together. Apparently, this condition is fairly common, but more frequently affects their feet than their hands. Fortunately, when it affects their hands, it doesn't seem to bother them at all, or make it difficult for them to swim. So, your little one should do just fine. Please allow me to introduce Snowflake, my "albino" ADF. Well, we've established that she is actually a leucistic ADF, that is, she is lacking pigment in her skin, but not her eyes - still quite a rare condition nonetheless, as best I can determine. In my experience with breeding them, extremely light coloured ADFs are usually unhealthy, but Snowflake is an exception. She is three years old and appears to be just as happy and healthy as the rest of her tankmates, despite her weird colouration. Certainly can't mistake her for any of the other frogs. - frogbreeder

 

awwww all your frogs are adorable!!! I've never had one, but I think I'm starting to like them a little too much

 

I think I'm starting to like them a little too much

Martini, it's very difficult not to fall in love with these adorable, little creatures. They're just so darn cute, and their antics are just so darn amusing. I have kept and bred them for many, many years now, yet I could still sit and watch them all day long. They're just so fascinating and entertaining, not to mention unbearably cute.

Great job rescuing Super Delta Boy. Poor fish! Looks like he's got himself a very good home now though. Kudos for saving him and nursing him back to health. It really upsets me how some retailers don't care about the animals they sell. They simply regard them as objects that generate profit, instead of the living, thinking, feeling creatures they are. It's heartbreaking. If only everyone cared as much as we, and all the members of Fishlore, do about animals, the world would be a much, much better place. - frogbreeder

 

In my experience with breeding them, extremely light coloured ADFs are usually unhealthy, but Snowflake is an exception. She is three years old and appears to be just as happy and healthy as the rest of her tankmates, despite her weird colouration. Certainly can't mistake her for any of the other frogs.

Has she ever reproduced? (not sure if you let her be with males or not). Terribly curious to know if she's passed on her unique color.

 

Very cool. She definitely looks different.

 

Thank you Frogbreeder! It's really satisfying to see him slowly recover in his new home, he is soo happy and active and I really love him! We still have a long way to go but little by little we're getting there, I wouldn't have chosen any other fish in the world to be my first fish! <3

On the other hand I was looking for some ADF in internet since I've never seen them in fish or pet stores and I can't find them anywhere! :'( I heard ADF are great companions for a Betta and I was considering upgrading my tank and getting one But it seems like here in Venezuela they're almost impossible to find

 

Terribly curious to know if she's passed on her unique color.

Yes, I was also very curious to know whether she is fertile and whether she would produce offspring the same colour as herself, but I haven't managed to breed her. When she was a bit younger, I put her in a tank with a few male breeders, but none of them would amplex her, even though they were definitely in the mood and she was the only female available. I'm not sure why they weren't interested in her, because she made no attempt to hide from them or anything like that. She seemed quite willing, but they wouldn't give her the time of day. So, I'm not even sure whether she is able to reproduce. - frogbreeder

I wouldn't have chosen any other fish in the world to be my first fish! <3. . . I heard ADF are great companions for a Betta and I was considering upgrading my tank and getting one

You definitely made a great choice. He is gorgeous and his finnage is growing back nicely thanks to you. Great work! Although many sources claim that bettas make good companions for ADFs, this is an unfortunate, but very popular misconception. ADFs should never be housed with fish of any type (or any other creatures, except their own kind), for many, many different reasons. That's too bad that ADFs aren't available in Venezuela. I'm not sure, but they might be illegal to own there, as they are in some states in the U.S.
- frogbreeder

 

I full heartedly agree that mixing bettas and ADF is a horrible pairing for both species. They have different needs, diets, habitats, and personalities. Neither species would be happy in the grouping, and both would suffer injuries - the frog would snap at the long fins and the betta would be quite capable of blinding the frog by eating the eyes, maiming the frog by biting off limbs, and then killing the frog.

 

And frogbreeder, it is quite interesting that the males would not mate her. Maybe the frogs know something others should! The person with the "albino" dwarfs is parading around the other forum but I have a feeling that it is not in the interest of the species so much as the interest of the owner having a spot of "celebrity"

 

Thanks jenste, yes, it's very sad that some sources suggest that ADFs can be housed with bettas. As you said, they have completely different needs and, in most cases, it inevitably ends badly for both creatures, when they are housed together.

I still suspect that these supposedly "albino" ADFs won't survive very long or, if they do, they will turn darker as they mature, just like Lucy's frog did. I still think you're right. There is no such thing as an albino ADF. They might just be lighter coloured frogs, like the ones I bred several years ago, but not true albinos. Strange, too, because when I bred the light coloured ones, no one seemed very interested in them. Most people wanted the dark brown ones instead. - frogbreeder

 

When she was a bit younger, I put her in a tank with a few male breeders, but none of them would amplex her, even though they were definitely in the mood and she was the only female available.

Oh that's right .. you told me that before and I forgot.

 

Wow I really didn't know mixing frogs with fish was a bad idea, good thing there are so many knowledgeable people here that's a big NO then, thank you for that info!! I'll be moving to the U.S in a couple of years because of the horrible situation here and I'll definitely consider getting a frog They're adorable!

 

Yes, that's a great big NO. Unfortunately, there are many popular misconceptions concerning ADFs. I can't tell you how many websites I have visited that claim ADFs can easily be kept in a community aquarium along with all sorts of fish and fed fish flake. Neither is true. It's sort of sad. Hopefully, you'll be able to keep them someday, because ADFs are just so darn cute and entertaining. I think everyone should have a couple. But, then again, of course, I'd think so, because I absolutely love these little froggies - frogbreeder

 

May I ask why they can't be kept with other fish? Just out of curiosity

 

May I ask why they can't be kept with other fish? Just out of curiosity

Mmmmm, sure. . . .

- Fish and frogs prefer different water conditions: frogs prefer still, shallow water, with very minimal filtration, whereas fish require deeper water with more filtration.

- Aeration is recommended for fish, but not for frogs.

- The fish may injure the frogs, or visa versa. Even small fish might nip at a frog and injure its skin, resulting in infection and even death. Bettas are not a good choice because they are often aggressive with their tankmates, and the frog might nip at the betta’s finnage and damage it, leaving the betta looking like your poor super delta boy, Martini, when you first got him. Frogs will perceive most fish as predators and spend much of their time hiding. Frogs are less likely to exhibit normal behaviour or mate, if they are kept with fish.

- One of the most important reasons that frogs and fish should never be kept together is that the frogs usually end up starving to death, while the fish end up getting fat. Frogs are very slow eaters sometimes and can take a while to find the food. Usually, by the time the frogs detect the presence of food, the fish have already eaten it. Also, fish and frogs require different diets. Frogs should never be allowed to eat flake foods or pelleted foods intended for fish. Feeding such foods can cause digestive problems and even result in death for frogs.

- Because frogs have highly absorbant skin, they are very sensitive to toxins in the water and fish waste is a great source of toxins, at least, until it is neutralized by the nitrogen cycle.

- All amphibians are best housed in a single-species aquarium in order to prevent the spread of infectious disease.

These are just a few of the reasons I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many other reasons as well. Fish and frogs are a bit like oil and water: they just don't mix very well. - frogbreeder

 

Wow thanks for taking your time to answer in such a detailed way I added that to your reputation you really know a lot!

I'm gonna do some more research on them and when I know enough I'll consider getting one if I can provide it with the proper care (and if I find them here in Venezuela of course! ^^)

 

Thanks Andrea, I appreciate it. I certainly hope you can find an ADF where you live. They are not very difficult to care for, just different than fish. And they sure are amusing little characters to have around - frogbreeder

 

But in nature maybe the weird mouth would infact help them?

In nature, Snoopy would have a definite advantage and such traits could be passed on to future generations. - frogbreeder

Would this improve his chances of feeding in a tank with fish?
EDIT: Oops, read the rest of the thread. Very good explanation!

Very neat looking... Kind of cute, but doesn't look like a frog to me... more like a newt with an underbite.

 

more like a newt with an underbite.

- frogbreeder