Found On Seachems Website

Nicole B

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Anyone ever seen or heard this by Seachem? One of their workers posted this and wondering if anyone has ever heard this before.


We have 1ppm of ammonia in our tap and this is what one of their workers suggested.


To me it sounds dangerous and deadly for the fish but I am not sure.
 

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Nicole B

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OneLittleBubble said:
Prime is a water conditioner and an ammonia detoxifier it's not dangerous almost everybody uses it. Stability is like API quick start if you know what that is, it makes the tank cycle faster.
Yes I know all of that! We use prime and stability. But it says you can just dose the tank with prime when ammonia is super high and it says not to do a water change. Wondering if anyone has heard that before. We have ammonia in our tap.
 

scarface

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Stick with what’s been working for you already. A lot of people use Prime as a fix-all, but I prefer not to add more chemicals than I need to.
 

OneLittleBubble

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Yes, you can do that I said it was an ammonia detoxifier. But should you do that all the time? No, it only gets rid of ammonia and not other gunk in the tank so once in a while use it.
 

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Nicole, unfortunately there is a lot of **** in what the Seachem giy has posted - usually they have knowledgeable folks. First of all beneficial bacteria lives more on surfaces like filter media, pads, substrate etc and barely there in water so water change does not mess up the cycle - i am assuming you are in the cycle phase. Secondly prime is a dechlorinator that also neutralizes heavy metals and up to 1ppm ammonia and nitrite for fishes but not mess up with cycle.

You need water changes for other reasons, replenish other minerals, remove nitrates. Can you explain what phase you are in what is the concern so we could help you a bit more.
 

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If you have ammonia in your tap, then doing a water change to lower ammonia is not necessarily very useful. In that situation, if your goal is to lower ammonia, your best bet would be to dose Prime to detoxify it.

Obviously water changes have other purposes than lowering ammonia, so to use Prime -instead of- water changes as a general practice is not a good idea. But in this scenario the advice does seem to be coming from the standpoint of addressing ammonia, which is why using Prime vs. additional water changes makes sense. For someone who does not have ammonia in their tap water, the recommendation would make less sense.
 

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Looking at the linked post .. unless I missed it, it doesn't mention that this is for a fish-in cycle. Maybe the original question was about fishless cycling? If that's the case, then it's not dangerous for fish .. there are none.
 
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Nicole B

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Tesla said:
Nicole, unfortunately there is a lot of in what the Seachem giy has posted - usually they have knowledgeable folks. First of all beneficial bacteria lives more on surfaces like filter media, pads, substrate etc and barely there in water so water change does not mess up the cycle - i am assuming you are in the cycle phase. Secondly prime is a dechlorinator that also neutralizes heavy metals and up to 1ppm ammonia and nitrite for fishes but not mess up with cycle.

You need water changes for other reasons, replenish other minerals, remove nitrates. Can you explain what phase you are in what is the concern so we could help you a bit more.
Sorry I didn’t explain it better. We upgraded tanks. Our 10 gallon was cycled and we lost a little bit of our cycle by adding tap water in with tank water and accidently starting the filter. Well our 10 gallon media was clogged (cleaning it multiple times didn’t help) so I had to replace it. I took the cycled media and cut it up and put it behind the newer ones. We have 2 filters running on our 20 gallon. Well our readings for 2 weeks were 1ppm ammonia. 0 nitrite 0 nitrate. Now nitrate has gone up to 5. But since changing the filter yesterday ammonia has rose to 2ppm. Now everyone on here says to do large water changes to get rid of the ammonia but our tap has 1ppm of ammonia so I am not sure if that would make it worse. We did a water change Sunday and cleaned one section of the tank. I found that on their website and was wondering if double dosing prime instead of water changes would help the ammonia problem or if anyone has done this before?

Galathiel said:
Looking at the linked post .. unless I missed it, it doesn't mention that this is for a fish-in cycle. Maybe the original question was about fishless cycling? If that's the case, then it's not dangerous for fish .. there are none.
I guess I didn’t pay attention to that! We have fish in the tank. But have been just dosing prime for about a week with weekly water changes 25% and cleaning. And they have been fine. Our ammonia was 1ppm for a week and a half. But now that it’s 2 I’m afraid to just dose the tank. But then wondering if our tap will make the situation worse by doing a 50% water change. In our 10 gallon we had enough BB to get rid of the ammonia in our tap so never had problems. But this is a new tank.
 

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Nicole B said:
Sorry I didn’t explain it better. We upgraded tanks. Our 10 gallon was cycled and we lost a little bit of our cycle by adding tap water in with tank water and accidently starting the filter. Well our 10 gallon media was clogged (cleaning it multiple times didn’t help) so I had to replace it. I took the cycled media and cut it up and put it behind the newer ones. We have 2 filters running on our 20 gallon. Well our readings for 2 weeks were 1ppm ammonia. 0 nitrite 0 nitrate. Now nitrate has gone up to 5. But since changing the filter yesterday ammonia has rose to 2ppm. Now everyone on here says to do large water changes to get rid of the ammonia but our tap has 1ppm of ammonia so I am not sure if that would make it worse. We did a water change Sunday and cleaned one section of the tank. I found that on their website and was wondering if double dosing prime instead of water changes would help the ammonia problem or if anyone has done this before?
This is helpful - i think your cycle got messed with complete change of filter pads. Try to change it one at time so you do not lose all beneficial bacteria. Also if possible add matrix / biohome media to filter to have more area for the bacteria to live on.
Now, dosing double prime will not handle 2ppm ammonia and saying that 5 times prime will handle up to 5ppm ammonia is not sensible at all!

I would recommend that you do few things -a) Do water changes 50% regularly every other day - 2ppm initial water with 50% WC (1PPM source) will get you to 1,5PPM ammonia, not ideal but better, b) dose double the prime and the will help, c) with one of the water changes try to get water from a well, friend, LFS where you can get zero amminia in tap (this is only for cycle re-establish phase) d) add more media to filter if there is space e) get a used filter pad from an established tank, your other tank, LFS, friend - but it has to be from a healthy tank - this will help up speed up cycle setup.

Once you have your cycle established regular water changes adding 1ppm ammonia (remeber 50% WC would be overall 0.5PPM in the tank) is not a killer thing. Just dose prime and your BB will cycle it into nitrates quickly ! End result could be possible 2 water changes in a week in place of 1.

Hope this helps!
 
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Nicole B

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Tesla said:
This is helpful - i think your cycle got messed with complete change of filter pads. Try to change it one at time so you do not lose all beneficial bacteria. Also if possible add matrix / biohome media to filter to have more area for the bacteria to live on.
Now, dosing double prime will not handle 2ppm ammonia and saying that 5 times prime will handle up to 5ppm ammonia is not sensible at all!

I would recommend that you do few things -a) Do water changes 50% regularly every other day - 2ppm initial water with 50% WC (1PPM source) will get you to 1,5PPM ammonia, not ideal but better, b) dose double the prime and the will help, c) with one of the water changes try to get water from a well, friend, LFS where you can get zero amminia in tap (this is only for cycle re-establish phase) d) add more media to filter if there is space e) get a used filter pad from an established tank, your other tank, LFS, friend - but it has to be from a healthy tank - this will help up speed up cycle setup.

Once you have your cycle established regular water changes adding 1ppm ammonia (remeber 50% WC would be overall 0.5PPM in the tank) is not a killer thing. Just dose prime and your BB will cycle it into nitrates quickly ! End result could be possible 2 water changes in a week in place of 1.

Hope this helps!
I changed one of the filter pads. From our 10 gallon filter that has been clogged and overflowing for like a month. I cut apart the clogged one and stuffed them behind both filter pads. The other filter has been running for 2 weeks haven’t touched the media so not sure why ammonia allcof a sudden went up. Only thing I got rid of was the plastic and carbon on the clogged filter pad. That was my question! We will do the water changes. Just didn’t make sense how seachem said you could just double dose the tank with 2ppm ammonia and everything would be ok.
 

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I think the Seachem guy's advice makes sense. It seems like he's trying to help you get your tank cycled while still having ammonia in your tap water. Dosing with Prime every 48 hours to bind the ammonia makes sense. I'll have to re-read it to see what he says about water changes. Weekly water changes? I don't recall what he said.
 
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Nicole B

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Nicole B said:
I changed one of the filter pads. From our 10 gallon that has been clogged and overflowing for like a month. I cut apart the clogged one and stuffed them behind both filter pads. The other filter has been running for 2 weeks so not sure why ammonia allcof a sudden went up. Only thing I got rid of was the plastic and carbon on the clogged filter pad. That was my question! We will do the water changes. Just didn’t make sense how seachem said you could just double dose the tank with 2ppm ammonia and everything would be ok.
Can kind of see them stuffed behind the cartridges. The one on the left has been running for 2 weeks. The right was from our 10 gallon that was clogged.

pugletfan said:
I think the Seachem guy's advice makes sense. It seems like he's trying to help you get your tank cycled while still having ammonia in your tap water. Dosing with Prime every 48 hours to bind the ammonia makes sense. I'll have to re-read it to see what he says about water changes. Weekly water changes? I don't recall what he said.
It was advice to someone else but I’m not sure how to find it again. I just screen shot it awhile ago. Lol but just wanted to know if anyone’s heard this before when having 1ppm of ammonia in the tap.
 

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TexasDomer

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This is the first I'm hearing of Prime being able to detoxify up to 5 ppm ammonia (for a 5x dose). Everywhere else I've heard up to ammonia + nitrites = 1-2 ppm (only 2 ppm if nitrates are very low). So I'm not sure I'd trust that. I'd still try to keep ammonia lower than 2 ppm. 1 ppm from your tap is lower than 2 ppm, so a water change is still beneficial, then you can double dose with Prime. Once the tank is fully cycled again, it will be able to handle the 1 ppm ammonia from the tap within 24 hours.
 
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Nicole B

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TexasDomer said:
This is the first I'm hearing of Prime being able to detoxify up to 5 ppm ammonia (for a 5x dose). Everywhere else I've heard up to ammonia + nitrites = 1-2 ppm (only 2 ppm if nitrates are very low). So I'm not sure I'd trust that. I'd still try to keep ammonia lower than 2 ppm. 1 ppm from your tap is lower than 2 ppm, so a water change is still beneficial, then you can double dose with Prime. Once the tank is fully cycled again, it will be able to handle the 1 ppm ammonia from the tap within 24 hours.
That’s what I was wondering! I’ve never heard it before either and didn’t think it was safe.
 

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TexasDomer said:
This is the first I'm hearing of Prime being able to detoxify up to 5 ppm ammonia (for a 5x dose). Everywhere else I've heard up to ammonia + nitrites = 1-2 ppm (only 2 ppm if nitrates are very low). So I'm not sure I'd trust that. I'd still try to keep ammonia lower than 2 ppm. 1 ppm from your tap is lower than 2 ppm, so a water change is still beneficial, then you can double dose with Prime. Once the tank is fully cycled again, it will be able to handle the 1 ppm ammonia from the tap within 24 hours.
I agree with @TexasDomer and what I was trying to say above - prime handling upto 5ppm is not correct and once the tank is cycled handling 1ppm tap (remember with 50% WC it is only 0.5PPM overall) is easy work for bacteria to handle!
 
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Nicole B

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Tesla said:
I agree with @TexasDomer and what I was trying to say above - prime handling upto 5ppm is not correct and once the tank is cycled handling 1ppm tap (remember with 50% WC it is only 0.5PPM overall) is easy work for bacteria to handle!
That is good. Sometimes I will take the wrong advice so I figured I’d ask on here if anyone’s heard this before!
 

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I find it interesting about a couple things the Seachem guy said, at least this is my interpretation.

1) Water changes remove the beneficial bacteria.

2) Once your tank is cycled, use Stability only when doing water changes.

First, my understanding is that there may be traces of beneficial bacteria in the water column, but the vast majority resides in the filter media, on the sides, and in any gravel or substrate. Why suddenly are water changes not recommended for a period of time?

Second, if Stability accelerates the cycling process, why do you need to continue to use it once your tank is cycled?

I find it all very "fishy," pardon the pun. I still haven't seen any credible explanations about how and why cycle boosters supposedly work. Just buy more seems to be the message. I don't advocate huge water changes, but I still don't believe that water changes of any kind will negatively affect the cycle. Don't do water changes, let your ammonia spike, and eventually your tank will cycle. Well, duh. It will cycle on its own. What's in the magic cycle booster?

All I know for sure is that I've cycled many tanks with fish in, 25% water changes every other day, Prime to condition the water going in (which will neutralize the tap water although it may not show in the water testing), watching ammonia form, then nitrite, then nitrate, then cycled. No muss, no fuss, no bad effects for the fish. I'm trying to learn what if anything these cycle boosters do, but all I see is, "Add this, add that, wait a week, do a huge water change, dump in some ammonia, say the Rosary, wait some more, why won't my tank cycle?"

I saw a video on YouTube from one of the other fish products companies about how to fix problems with aquariums. He had 20 different bottles of stuff that would cure anything from fish bipolar to the heartbreak of psoriasis. Just buy something. I believe the source of most fish ailments is water condition, and I don't believe that the automatic answer is always to buy something and dump it in, and if it doesn't work, buy some more and dump it in, lather, rinse, repeat.

Another issue was the guy talking about just dosing more, and more, and more Prime. If you're at 1 ppm, one dose. 2 ppm two doses, 3 ppm three doses. More Cowbell! More Prime! Then after you let the ammonia spike and don't do any water changes for a week or so, do a 10% water change and check your levels. I laughed out loud on that one. What the freak is a 10% water change going to do to alleviate an ammonia spike? What will you do when you see that your water readings are no better and probably worse? Add more Prime. And more. And more. And wonder why nothing's working.
 
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