Fluidised vs submerged vs trickle sump colonising potential?

Sorry for the repost, but I reckoned there would be no point in resurrecting a thread that is nearly a year old.

Which type of sump from the 3 mentioned above would fit the most bacteria in it? I plan on upgrading to a 125G tank with 12 mollies, an angelfish, a BN pleco, an SAE, 4 neon dwarf rainbows, and 7 cories (which would be around 70% stock). My sump would be 63G (my current display tank), and I'd like the filtration to be as good as possible.

Anyone have any experience with sumps?

 

I personally wouldn't do a fluidized media set up, or a wet/dry trickle set up for a sump.

Keep it simple with minimal baffles.

Check out Swiss Tropicals website. They sell German made Poret foam.

Consider using progressively denser sheets of foam in th sump.

For such a low stocking of fish, why do you want a sump?

Those fish will have a small bio load, compared to a 125g full of cichlids.

 

Sorry, I got a bit confused with the conversion. the tank would be 100G, not 125.

For such a low stocking of fish, why do you want a sump?

I don't know to be honest...
I just like the idea of building something and getting more filtration - my canister can only handle 130% of my bioload according to AqAdvisor and I'd like to have some equipment outside of the display.

 

Gotcha.

Just figured your current 63g tank that you want to use for a sump would be better served as a second tank with fish.

In my opinion, that AqAdvisor site is more of a site to point people in the right direction.

It isn't able to factor frequency or volume of WC's or what extra media is in the filter.

For example, a simple Top Fin HOB filter with cartridges may not be well suited for a particular tank.

But after discarding the cartridge, installing a pre-filter sponge on the intake tube, and placing a foam sponge blocks cut to fit the reservoir, a cheap TopFin filter can be made to support a larger stocking of fish.

Largw water changes every 7-10 days, in my opinion, is the best thing a fishkeep can do in regards to water quality.

I'm not against sumps.

I actually wish I had a sump on my overstocked African 55g and CA/SA 75g cichlids tanks.

Sumps used in Freshwater tanks don't require as many baffles as Saltwater set ups.

The use of foam sheets that progressively get denser from 10ppi - 30ppi is really is all that's needed.

Maybe a final baffle where water flows over some layers of Polyfil batting can be used to polish the water.

Also, if you want to run a sump, I suggest to research on Google and YouTube "Dr. Kevin Novak + Anoxic Filtrarion + Bioceneis Baskets".

Ton of info out there about Dr. Novak's BCB's in sumps. He states the use of BCB's in sumps help anoxic filtration that reduces nitrate levels.

 

If your 125 gallon tank does not come with a built in overflow, you do not have to have a sump, but they are useful on larger tanks.

If your 125 gallon tank has a built in overflow, then you need a sump to collect the water that overflows. However, the sump does not have to be expensive. Get a large clear polyethylene container such as Rubbermaid or Sterilite. Get the biggest one that will fit under your tank.

A fluidized bed filter works well because the media is suspended. However, it takes a lot of flow to keep the media suspended. It will take a large pump with a high power demand. Check out the King of DIY channel for advantages and disadvantages of these filters. Because the surface area of the media used for these filters is small, it takes a lot of media to get the job done.

You can also make DIY trickle/shower filters using buckets or inexpensive plastic shoeboxes or the like filled with polyurethane sponges, nylon pot scrubbers, ceramic biomedia, or plastic bioballs. It will take some time to set it up, but it can be very effective. You will need a pump to deliver water from the sump through the trickle filter and back into the sump. That does not have to be a high pressure pump. Then you will need a pump rated for 500-1000 gph at the necessary lift height to return water from the sump to the aquarium.

You should put a heater in the sump, but I suggest putting a couple of 300 watt heaters in the tank itself as well.

If your tank has a fixed overflow, the tank level should always stay the same, but as water evaporates, the level in the sump will drop, so you add makeup water (preferably RO water or distilled water) to the sump to maintain the level.

You can use a HOB filter such as a Aquaclear 110 on a 125 gallon tank. Another good option is a canister filter.
If you get a canister, get the largest one you can afford.

 

Petsmart may have their BF deal on 50% off Fluval and TopFin Pro canisters.

The TopFin Pro canisters are made in Germany by Eheim. They are rebranded Eheim Pro 5e models.

The largest model TF Pro 200, is the same as the Eheim Pro 5e 700. It will be about $180 if 50% off

 

If Petsmart had a 50% off sale, I never saw it, even on black Friday. However, they currently have a 25% off a single item sale. The Fluval FX6 is listed at $339.99> With 25% off you could get it for the low, low price of $254.99.

 

If they are not 50% off any more, personally I would recommend anyone wanting an FX4/6 os to wait until PetSmart has an in-store sale for $199/$249.

Then use the coupon that can be earned for playing the game in the PetSmart app.

Usually the top coupon is either 20% - 25% off a single item purchased in store.

That is the best way to get a near BF price.

 

A fluidized bed filter works well because the media is suspended. However, it takes a lot of flow to keep the media suspended. It will take a large pump with a high power demand. Check out the King of DIY channel for advantages and disadvantages of these filters. Because the surface area of the media used for these filters is small, it takes a lot of media to get the job done.

You can also make DIY trickle/shower filters using buckets or inexpensive plastic shoeboxes or the like filled with polyurethane sponges, nylon pot scrubbers, ceramic biomedia, or plastic bioballs. It will take some time to set it up, but it can be very effective. You will need a pump to deliver water from the sump through the trickle filter and back into the sump. That does not have to be a high pressure pump. Then you will need a pump rated for 500-1000 gph at the necessary lift height to return water from the sump to the aquarium.

Given that I already have a canister (SunSun HW-304B) with media in it, which of the types of sump would be cheapest to convert to?
I know fluidised is really expensive (even for the media itself), not to say loud.
Which one between submerged and trickle is cheaper? Is there a difference in noise?

Gotcha.

Just figured your current 63g tank that you want to use for a sump would be better served as a second tank with fish.

I'd love to, but my parents won't let me get any other tanks/fish ;(

 

I think the main noise comes from the type of overflow/weir you use.

If tank isn't drilled, you will need a HOB style overflow.

I think Bulk Reef Supply had some HOB style overflows on a good sale, maybe the Skimz brand?

If you get a hang on back overflow, get one with at least 2 or 3 drains.

That way, one can be used as an emergency overflow. For example, if the over flow had 2 drains, one would be either a durso or herbie amd the 2nd the emergency drain.

If the overflow had 3 drains, you can set up a "Bean Animal" having a herbie, Durso and an emergency drain.

How Durso, Herbie, and Bean Animal Overflows Work - Marine Depot Blog

I think you should first look at how to get the water from the tank to the sump, then back to the tank.

Once that is figured out, then look at how you want the baffles placed and type of media in it.

If you have Amazon account, look at the Jebao pumps. The are DC style with variable flow.

That way during feeding, you can ramp down the flow, then turn it back up afterwards.

They can range between $40-$80 for something your size of set up, depending on gph and model.

Remember, you will have to factor in head pressure and friction loss when selecting a pump.

Here is an example of a HOB style overflow.

Marine Depot Overflow Box OF-1200 - Marine Depot.

If the back glass is not tempered, you or a glass shop can drill the back glass so you can install the overflow through the glass wall.

This kit even comes with a glass bit.

Marine Depot Elite OverFlow Box w/ Holesaw Drill Bit - Large - Marine Depot

For the actual sump, what will be the easiest to fit under the footprint of a 125g, would either be a 29g or a 55g Aqueon tank from the Petco $1/gallon / 50% off sale. 29g Aqueon is $29 and i think the 55g Aqueon nowadays is maybe around $70, but I am not certain.

If you're already going to spend the $ on the overflow, pump, plumbing, etc etc, I would suggest to highly consider going with a 55g Aqueon tank for the sump.

Plenty of room to place 1-2 heaters on there, and whatever media and baffle placement you want.

Even if the sump is filled at half capacity, it will give the entire system an extra 25g of water.

For the most coat effective setup for a sump, look at Amazon for "Aquaneat" brand of 20ppi foam sheets. The come in 2" thick sheets that can be cut to fit the 29g or 55g tank.

I can sketch out later and upload a pick, easier to explain that way of how the sheets of foam are placed..

After the water passes horizontally through the sheets, there can be a baffle where the water spills over into a another 4" wide baffle space that has a few layer of Polyfil batting to catch all the really fine muck. The layers of Polyfil would be supported by a plastic support made from lighting diffuser found at big box home improvement stores.

Tons of videos on YouTube showing that.

Don't underestimate the ability for foam sponge to act as a great mechanical and biological filter.

 

Do you mean something like this?


Forgot to clarify I'm in Poland so no lighting diffuser or dollar-per-gallon for me. Equipment does work out cheaper in general though
I'm planning on drilling a Herbie overflow (in the bottom of the tank, much cheaper than getting an overflow box and basically does the same thing) once I get a new metal stand because the aquarium will have to be emptied anyway.
Would a 30G be fine as a sump for my 63G (in case I'm not allowed to get a 100G) and continue to use the 63G as my display?

 

Do you mean something like this?
Forgot to clarify I'm in Poland so no lighting diffuser or dollar-per-gallon for me. Equipment does work out cheaper in general though
I'm planning on drilling a Herbie overflow (in the bottom of the tank, much cheaper than getting an overflow box and basically does the same thing) once I get a new metal stand because the aquarium will have to be emptied anyway.
Would a 30G be fine as a sump for my 63G (in case I'm not allowed to get a 100G) and continue to use the 63G as my display?

I made a sump similar to this one from a 29 gallon tank, some 1/4" acrylic sheet cut to fit inside the tank and some silicone sealant to put it in place. However, I have also made them from clear plastic containers. The DIY ones are less expensive, but the commercial ones will be more attractive.

 

I made a sump similar to this one from a 29 gallon tank, some 1/4" acrylic sheet cut to fit inside the tank and some silicone sealant to put it in place. However, I have also made them from clear plastic containers. The DIY ones are less expensive, but the commercial ones will be more attractive.

Wouldn't it be too difficult to make proper baffles that fit the side of a plastic container? I don't think there are many that are pure cuboids - unless you mean like a trickle filter, where you don't need horizontal baffles.
I'd like to monitor the cleanliness of my media, so I think I'll go with a glass tank and glue my own baffles.