Flourish Excel And Nerites

Okay, I'm back for more advice. I just got my planted aquarium started this week. I added Flouish as fertilizer and Flourish Excel for CO2 (I heard this was a good way for beginner planted aquariumist to start). I have two Nerite snails that I added fairly recently as well. The first day after I added the Flourish products, snails were fine. Second and third day, I was barely home, but when I was, I didn't see the snails. I read they have a tendency to hibernate sometimes, especially when adjusting to new tank environments. Today, I got a little worried when I still didnt see them. Did some research and saw conflicting accounts about using Excel with Nerites - some people say it's fine, others say it's harmful. Does anyone have insight on this? Also, I read some people dose daily with an eye dropper, but I simply followed the directions on the bottle and was planning to only dose after water changes. Also, I slightly underdosed, because I read how overdosing could be harmful to algae, which I want to keep around in moderation for the nerites to eat. Anyway, when I got home this evening the snails were out, but one looks really, really sluggish (no pun intended haha). I still did an almost 50% water change. I added more fertizilizer, but no more Excel just in case. I want to find out more about it in relation to snails before I use it again. For insight, tank plants are moss balls, dward hair grass, amazon swords and dwarf water lettuce.

 

Excel is dilute glutaraldehyde, which is a biocide/cleaning agent. At proper doses it should be safe, but “biocide” still sounds the alarm with me personally. I use mine to kill algae. I use a pipette because I find the cap threads to be a highly guestimative way of measuring

The only thing is, hairgrass is a challenge in low tech and will be a bigger challenge without excel.

 

Excel is dilute glutaraldehyde, which is a biocide/cleaning agent. At proper doses it should be safe, but “biocide” still sounds the alarm with me personally. I use mine to kill algae. I use a pipette because I find the cap threads to be a highly guestimative way of measuring

The only thing is, hairgrass is a challenge in low tech and will be a bigger challenge without excel.

I feel like I've gotten myself into a Catch 22. Is there another, safer easy way to give the plants co2? I don't know if I'm ready to venture into infusing c02. Also I do have a pipette so maybe I could try a similar dosage to yours? Do you dose daily? How many drops do you use at a time?

 

I have nerites and use excel, no issues..but I am careful not to OD. Prob with excel is it inhibits algae growth and nerites feed on algae exclusively...so it is a catch 22.

 

I have nerites and use excel, no issues..but I am careful not to OD. Prob with excel is it inhibits algae growth and nerites feed on algae exclusively...so it is a catch 22.

So what is your dosage? Assuming you do enough for the plants but not enough to kill the algae so your nerites will be ok. Or do you feed them separately? Mine haven't shown much interest in algae wafers, but I think they're getting enough from my tank (even though I have no visible algae) because they're always cleaning.

 

Okay, I'm back for more advice. I just got my planted aquarium started this week. I added Flouish as fertilizer and Flourish Excel for CO2 (I heard this was a good way for beginner planted aquariumist to start). I have two Nerite snails that I added fairly recently as well. The first day after I added the Flourish products, snails were fine. Second and third day, I was barely home, but when I was, I didn't see the snails. I read they have a tendency to hibernate sometimes, especially when adjusting to new tank environments. Today, I got a little worried when I still didnt see them. Did some research and saw conflicting accounts about using Excel with Nerites - some people say it's fine, others say it's harmful. Does anyone have insight on this? Also, I read some people dose daily with an eye dropper, but I simply followed the directions on the bottle and was planning to only dose after water changes. Also, I slightly underdosed, because I read how overdosing could be harmful to algae, which I want to keep around in moderation for the nerites to eat. Anyway, when I got home this evening the snails were out, but one looks really, really sluggish (no pun intended haha). I still did an almost 50% water change. I added more fertizilizer, but no more Excel just in case. I want to find out more about it in relation to snails before I use it again. For insight, tank plants are moss balls, dward hair grass, amazon swords and dwarf water lettuce.

Hello Yem...

Glut is a chemical used to sterilize. Not a good thing for your tank. Before you put some chemical into the water, you need to find out the lighting requirements for your aquatic plants. Most will do fine with just the fertilizers the fish produce. Swords and Water lettuce don't require strong lighting, so you don't need fancy CO2 systems and other fertilizers. I'd consider doing some more research on your plants and leave the chemicals out of the water until you're sure you need them. I'm thinking you don't.

Old

 

I use Excel. The nerites in the 55 have been in there for around a year with no issues.

 

Look at the word: glutaraldehyde -- Aldehydes are deadly to living things. They are biocides. They kill living things -- Bio (Living) + cide (killer). Another word with aldehyde in the word is "Formaldehyde." I bought a bottle of Flourish excel, and then found out about aldehydes. I won't use it in a tank with live animals. It might make a decent toilet cleaner, but I wouldn't put living creatures in it. If I use it, I will remove the plant, dose it for a few days, and then put it back. Right now, I consider it 10$ wasted. I do have Flourish (the word alone) which is a kind of multivitamin for plants. I don't see how it is different from other similar formulas for terrestrial plants.

What I have found through my research is that "planted tanks" are about the plants, and not really about the fish. So I am with the "no chemicals" bunch. I feel that the fish food and fish waste that you can't reach to clean up is good enough for fertilizer. Seriously, it is exactly the same, but what is in the bottle has gone through more of a mechanical/industrial process.

 

I have plenty of algae in my 10 gallon for probably 20 snails I dose with Excel too. No problems.

 

I feel like I've gotten myself into a Catch 22. Is there another, safer easy way to give the plants co2? I don't know if I'm ready to venture into infusing c02. Also I do have a pipette so maybe I could try a similar dosage to yours? Do you dose daily? How many drops do you use at a time?

No, there isn't. To be honest I don't find excel to much use carbon-wise, so I get the pipette out and spot dose on algae. My tank is 1 gallon so the dose is 0.1 mL. My pipette is a 1 mL pipette and has measurements along the side.


For those saying fish waste and food is enough... Fish aren't pooping out adequate amounts of potassium and iron and magnesium and calcium.

Fertilizers are not some crazy factory manufactured soups of chemicals. They're just some salts and compounds dissolved in water. Some of the ingredients are edible. Plenty of people make them at home by buying the dry salts.

 

Hello Yem...

Glut is a chemical used to sterilize. Not a good thing for your tank. Before you put some chemical into the water, you need to find out the lighting requirements for your aquatic plants. Most will do fine with just the fertilizers the fish produce. Swords and Water lettuce don't require strong lighting, so you don't need fancy CO2 systems and other fertilizers. I'd consider doing some more research on your plants and leave the chemicals out of the water until you're sure you need them. I'm thinking you don't.

Old

I'm with you on leaving out the Excel until I get an answer I'm satisfied with. The problem is, there are so many conflicting accounts online for how to best have a planted aquarium and what plants need what. Right now, besides the two nerites, I only have a betta who isn't producing a lot of waste and eats all of his food, so I don't think I can count on that method of fertilizing.

 

I use Excel. The nerites in the 55 have been in there for around a year with no issues.

So you dose every day? I'm just trying to see if the methods for people who haven't had problems to see if there are commonalities.

 

Look at the word: glutaraldehyde -- Aldehydes are deadly to living things. They are biocides. They kill living things -- Bio (Living) + cide (killer). Another word with aldehyde in the word is "Formaldehyde." I bought a bottle of Flourish excel, and then found out about aldehydes. I won't use it in a tank with live animals. It might make a decent toilet cleaner, but I wouldn't put living creatures in it. If I use it, I will remove the plant, dose it for a few days, and then put it back. Right now, I consider it 10$ wasted. I do have Flourish (the word alone) which is a kind of multivitamin for plants. I don't see how it is different from other similar formulas for terrestrial plants.

What I have found through my research is that "planted tanks" are about the plants, and not really about the fish. So I am with the "no chemicals" bunch. I feel that the fish food and fish waste that you can't reach to clean up is good enough for fertilizer. Seriously, it is exactly the same, but what is in the bottle has gone through more of a mechanical/industrial process.

I've definitely read your point of view online as well. It's terrifying. How can this be marketed as something that mainly kills things but also provides plants with c02.? Where did that school of thought come from?

 

I have plenty of algae in my 10 gallon for probably 20 snails I dose with Excel too. No problems.

What's your dosage and dosing schedule please?

 

No, there isn't. To be honest I don't find excel to much use carbon-wise, so I get the pipette out and spot dose on algae. My tank is 1 gallon so the dose is 0.1 mL. My pipette is a 1 mL pipette and has measurements along the side.


For those saying fish waste and food is enough... Fish aren't pooping out adequate amounts of potassium and iron and magnesium and calcium.

Fertilizers are not some crazy factory manufactured soups of chemicals. They're just some salts and compounds dissolved in water. Some of the ingredients are edible. Plenty of people make them at home if by buying the dry salts.

Have to agree that Excel doesn't do much as "CO2 alternative". I mainly use it as a algaecide.

Your plants will do ok, as long as you have good light. Maybe the hairgrass won't grow fast, but the only method to get these to thrive is pressurized CO2 (which is not hard to set up, by the way)

 

What's your dosage and dosing schedule please?

I dose 1 mL everyday I will soon stop this because I am going to start dosing Thrive because of my incoming shipment of shrimp. Excel is snail safe, but not shrimp safe.

 

I've definitely read your point of view online as well. It's terrifying. How can this be marketed as something that mainly kills things but also provides plants with c02.? Where did that school of thought come from?

It's the worst idea in the history of fishkeeping with converting saltwater fish to freshwater a close second.

 

I've definitely read your point of view online as well. It's terrifying. How can this be marketed as something that mainly kills things but also provides plants with c02.? Where did that school of thought come from?

It doesn't provide CO2 at all. What it does according to seachem is offer "carbon intermediates." They haven't elaborated on what this means to the extent of my knowledge. However, if you look up the calvin cycle (the light independent portion of photosynthesis) on google s, you'll see that a lot of carbon compounds and sugars are produced along the way. One of them is a sugar called glyceraldehyde. So clearly aldehydes serve a purpose, and from my very limited knowledge, I'm assuming that glut comes into play somewhere along the calvin cycle. Maybe it gives a plant some substitute compounds that it hasn't been able to produce very much of on its own, due to CO2 limitation.

 

So you dose every day? I'm just trying to see if the methods for people who haven't had problems to see if there are commonalities.

I dose Excell every other day. Twice a week I dose Flourish Iron, flourish Potassium, flourish trace, and once a week Flourish. I have mysteries in all the aquariums and judging the way they breed and the good growth of the babies I would say snails have no issues. I also have shrimp in there as well as the nerites mentioned above.

I have not been able to get any good shots of the nerites but here are the mysteries.

I can post photos of the planted aquariums they are in if you would like.

1. Babies from the last clutch.



2.



3.



4.



5. Sharing a wafer with an otto.



6.

 

No, there isn't. To be honest I don't find excel to much use carbon-wise, so I get the pipette out and spot dose on algae. My tank is 1 gallon so the dose is 0.1 mL. My pipette is a 1 mL pipette and has measurements along the side.


For those saying fish waste and food is enough... Fish aren't pooping out adequate amounts of potassium and iron and magnesium and calcium.

Fertilizers are not some crazy factory manufactured soups of chemicals. They're just some salts and compounds dissolved in water. Some of the ingredients are edible. Plenty of people make them at home if by buying the dry salts.

So you use fertili

It's the worst idea in the history of fishkeeping with converting saltwater fish to freshwater a close second.

Yes, I've been reading more on it this morning, it seems like it's very ify on if it will cause more harm than good, not a chance I'm willing to take. I think I will have to jump on the learning curve and do pressurized c02. Was a little nervous because the whole planted tank thing is new and I felt like it would be easier to get it started and then learn about injecting c02.

 

Have to agree that Excel doesn't do much as "CO2 alternative". I mainly use it as a algaecide.

Your plants will do ok, as long as you have good light. Maybe the hairgrass won't grow fast, but the only method to get these to thrive is pressurized CO2 (which is not hard to set up, by the way)

Yes, I have a good tank light, so I'm going to do some research on the pressurized c02 today. I'm still nervous about doing that right since I've heard it can be tricky for beginners, but I'd rather learn about it than put my snails at risk!

 

I dose Excell every other day. Twice a week I dose Flourish Iron, flourish Potassium, flourish trace, and once a week Flourish. I have mysteries in all the aquariums and judging the way they breed and the good growth of the babies I would say snails have no issues. I also have shrimp in there as well as the nerites mentioned above.

I have not been able to get any good shots of the nerites but here the mysteries.

I can post photos of the planted aquariums they are in if you would like.

1. Babies from the last clutch.
View attachment 509413

2.
View attachment 509417

3.
View attachment 509418

4.
View attachment 509415

5. Sharing a wafer with an otto.
View attachment 509416

6.
View attachment 509419

Wow, yes, I'd love to see the planted tank!

 

So you use fertili

Yes, I've been reading more on it this morning, it seems like it's very ify on if it will cause more harm than good, not a chance I'm willing to take. I think I will have to jump on the learning curve and do pressurized c02. Was a little nervous because the whole planted tank thing is new and I felt like it would be easier to get it started and then learn about injecting c02.

It doesn't provide CO2 at all. What it does according to seachem is offer "carbon intermediates." They haven't elaborated on what this means to the extent of my knowledge. However, if you look up the calvin cycle (the light independent portion of photosynthesis) on google s, you'll see that a lot of carbon compounds and sugars are produced along the way. One of them is a sugar called glyceraldehyde. So clearly aldehydes serve a purpose, and from my very limited knowledge, I'm assuming that glut comes into play somewhere along the calvin cycle. Maybe it gives a plant some substitute compounds that it hasn't been able to produce very much of on its own, due to CO2 limitation.

I've got some more research to do. For now, I think I'm going to do another partial water change. And keep it simple for everyone involved, water conditioner and maybe a couple of drops of fertilizer. I think I am going to venture into pressurized c02, but I think the plants will be fine without it while I take time to study up.

 

Wow, yes, I'd love to see the planted tank!

Ok, I will put up some shots of our aquariums after I get home tonight

 

So you use fertili

Yes, I use fertilizer

 

I've definitely read your point of view online as well. It's terrifying. How can this be marketed as something that mainly kills things but also provides plants with c02.? Where did that school of thought come from?

I totally understand that many people use it. I also know that industry has put many potentially detrimental things into the food chain and so on without any study into the long term repercussions.
Underwater plants have evolved to live on less CO2. Plants grow above water and take it from the atmosphere. Truly submersed plants evolve to survive under very low levels of C02 derived from decaying organic matter and bacteria in the water and substrate.

A little bit of dirt in your tank is a good thing, not a bad thing, but get some substrate burrowing snails (as horrible as that may seem).

Also for Algae.
Put fast growing mid to low light plants like Hornwort in the aquarium to out compete the algea.
Use the correct light strength that the plants need (don't mix plants with different light needs).
Consider putting UV A&B blocking film on the aquarium or the windows near the aquarium.
Clean your tank regularly (none of this magical thinking about no-work aquariums).
Get some decent algae eaters who actually eat algae their entire lives (not just when they are babies).

 

I totally understand that many people use it. I also know that industry has put many potentially detrimental things into the food chain and so on without any study into the long term repercussions.
Underwater plants have evolved to live on less CO2. Plants grow above water and take it from the atmosphere. Truly submersed plants evolve to survive under very low levels of C02 derived from decaying organic matter and bacteria in the water and substrate.

A little bit of dirt in your tank is a good thing, not a bad thing, but get some substrate burrowing snails (as horrible as that may seem).

Also for Algae.
Put fast growing mid to low light plants like Hornwort in the aquarium to out compete the algea.
Use the correct light strength that the plants need (don't mix plants with different light needs).
Consider putting UV A&B blocking film on the aquarium or the windows near the aquarium.
Clean your tank regularly (none of this magical thinking about no-work aquariums).
Get some decent algae eaters who actually eat algae their entire lives (not just when they are babies).

It just infuriates me when companies market potentially harmful/deadly products as something they aren't. Like even as I'm looking into what I would need for C02 diffusers, Excel keeps popping up. And though it may be okay for some people, if that's not what it's intended to do and it could be harmful for other people's tanks, it shouldn't be marketed as "liquid C02."

I think I'm good on all the helpful suggestions you provided for algae control. Do you think I'm okay with nerites (do they eat algae their entire lives?) or should I consider a different type of snail? Again, I have a betta, so there's not much I can put in there with him. I went with nerites because I read that their antennas aren't as prominent as mystery snails, so bettas are less likely to nip at them. As it is, my betta is curious about the snails, but he's never tried to harm them in any way. He'll just sit beside one of them haha

 

Yemaya Here are some shots of aquariums past and present using the listed Seachem products.

1. 150 gallon.



2. 46 gallon bow front.



3. 37 gallon.



4. 44 pent.


5. 44 pent.



6. 44 pent.



7. End shot of the 150.



8. Madagascar lace plant.



9. 37 gallon.

 

Yemaya Here are some shots of aquariums past and present using the listed Seachem products.

1. 150 gallon.
View attachment 509585

2. 46 gallon bow front.
View attachment 509588

3. 37 gallon.
View attachment 509589

4. 44 pent.View attachment 509590

5. 44 pent.
View attachment 509591

6. 44 pent.
View attachment 509592

7. End shot of the 150.
View attachment 509593

8. Madagascar lace plant.
View attachment 509594

9. 37 gallon.
View attachment 509595

These are gorgeous; you're VERY talented! Thank you for sharing the pics. I've been thinking of using crystals in my tank too so it was inspiring to see your amethyst, etc.

 

Yemaya, nerites are great snails. They do not breed in freshwater, and so you don't get tons of baby snails. They do lay eggs though and nerite eggs can be messy looking because they are little white dots. They eat a lot of algae. Don't get too many because they will starve if they have already eaten all the algae.

I like Seachem. I just think that Excel is an algaecide, and should not be marketed as a CO2 additive.

 

Maybe Excel appears to work because all it does is inhibit algae growth.

 

Yemaya, nerites are great snails. They do not breed in freshwater, and so you don't get tons of baby snails. They do lay eggs though and nerite eggs can be messy looking because they are little white dots. They eat a lot of algae. Don't get too many because they will starve if they have already eaten all the algae.

I like Seachem. I just think that Excel is an algaecide, and should not be marketed as a CO2 additive.

Thanks, Kalyke. I agree with you about Excel. I've stopped using it because I'm not convinced it truly has C02 properties and I already don't have much visible algae, so I don't think I need it in addition to the two nerites (20 gallon tank).

I did another almost 50% water change yesterday and it seems like both snails perked up even more. I'm keeping it simple for right now - just water conditioner and a tiny bit of fertilizer. After the holidays when I pay some bills off, I'm going to invest in a C02 setup.

As for the nerites, it seems like they're cleaning all the time even though, like I said, there's not much visible algae. I'm worried that they're not eating enough and will drop an algae wafer in the tank every other day or so, but they never show any interest, so I assume they're okay.

 

Maybe Excel appears to work because all it does is inhibit algae growth.

I think Flourish needs to stick to marketing it like that instead of even mentioning C02. It's misleading and potentially harmful. I'm glad I figured it out before my snails got too sick.

 

These are gorgeous; you're VERY talented! Thank you for sharing the pics. I've been thinking of using crystals in my tank too so it was inspiring to see your amethyst, etc.

Thank you Yemaya

We are fond of the quartz family. The large rock on the left in photo #2 is one I picked up in high school, 1974.. I believe they called it gemstone.

 

Thank you Yemaya

We are fond of the quartz family. The large rock on the left in photo #2 is one I picked up in high school, 1974.. I believe they called it gemstone.

That's amazing. I love how some stones can hold a place in your heart like that. Once I get more comfortable with having a planted aquarium and feel like I can branch out more, I want to "borrow" some of your ideas lol How are your plants so green?

 

That's amazing. I love how some stones can hold a place in your heart like that. Once I get more comfortable with having a planted aquarium and feel like I can branch out more, I want to "borrow" some of your ideas lol How are your plants so green?

A combination of complete control over the water (I have an RO/DI system and I remineralize the water) supplements, proper lighting for the right length of time, and rigorous maintenance. The Madagascar lace plants have to be kept compliantly free of any partials.

 

A combination of complete control over the water (I have an RO/DI system and I remineralize the water) supplements, proper lighting for the right length of time, and rigorous maintenance. The Madagascar lace plants have to be kept compliantly free of any partials.

Oh wow, so I'm pretty new to the hobby, but I'm assuming your tanks are what are referred to as high tech?

 

Oh wow, so I'm pretty new to the hobby, but I'm assuming your tanks are what are referred to as high tech?

Actually no. High tech would involve injected Co2. I use Excel for that.

 

Actually no. High tech would involve injected Co2. I use Excel for that.

I'm learning something new on a daily basis here. Thanks for sharing info and being patient

 

I'm learning something new on a daily basis here. Thanks for sharing info and being patient

You are most welcome