Flame Angel Problem

Discussion in 'Saltwater Fish and Invertebrates' started by red_barron, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. red_barron

    red_barronNew MemberMember

    Hey there I have noticed marks showing up on my Flame Angel and cannot Idenify them. If you know what this is please drop me a line. He is eating fine and not rubbing or acting strange at all. All other fish are normal.??
    I don't want to call them "spots" but thats what they look like. They seem to flush with the fish sides and are random. I had similar spots on a Chromis that seemed to just disapear completely? If you have seen this before and know what it is I would greatly appreciate it if you could let me know. I moved him into a holding tank but not sure what this is?
    Thanks for the help


  2. OP

    red_barronNew MemberMember

    I took some new pics so you could see him better. If you have ever tried to take a Flame Angels pic when he doesn't want it taken you understand. :)P1020819.jpgP1020815.jpgP1020813.jpg
  3. Stang Man

    Stang ManWell Known MemberMember

    Those are bacterial infections related to a freshly started tank, how long ago did you start this tank? Your tank is going through the process of cycling do you understand the process? Give me more info of when you started and all the details of the tank such as filtration and lighting to what size of tank etc...
    the more info that you can tell the better the respond will be.

    And welcome to Fish Lore!!!!!

  4. OP

    red_barronNew MemberMember

    HOLLY QUICK RESPONCE BATMAN!! I love this site! I saw someone ask for GPH on a pump once and someone listed every pump I've ever even heard of... Thats why I joined, people like that. Thanks for the warm welcome greatly appreciated.
    As far as my issue here is the story. I ran a 40g FOWLR for over 10 years then had a heater malfunction. Live and learn... I shut the tank down for a few months then started back up again. This time I was lucky enough to buy a Stealth.... Live and learn.... . So I'm big on experience and short on patience (not a good thing in this hobby). This year I desided to go with a bigger tank and have some breathing room.. you have place a chair infront of a 40g just to watch your par. I currently have a 120g that I want to try my had at a Reef tank with which I started up on Feb 20 2012. I used about 40lbs of new "Cured" Live rock and about the same of old live rock from my 40g. I also used old media from the 40g to speed up the cycle. It had Diatom all over around the end of March which came in heavier about a week later and is slowly going away.
    It's funny you mentioned a new tank. I thought of a bacterial infection but could not find pics to match. I am currently treating him in the 40g with Melafix Marine I have seriously have never seen a fish with spots like this. I have been useing tap water but I always use Seachem Prime. Last night (no really) I had RO unit installed and will be changing the water over.
    The tank currently has the following:

    Salinity 1.025
    Temp 77F
    Nitrate 0
    Nitrite 0
    Carbonate Hardness 13
    Phosphate 0-0.25
    Ammonia 0


    2x Fluval 403 Canisters with Activated Charcoal, bio tubes, floss, SeaChem Phosguard.
    SeaClone 150 (shut up it works)
    Powerhead Korlia 1050
    Lighting Aqua Ray LED 600 duo (decided to go LED and they seem to have the best)

    In the tank now:

    1 Majestic Angel (Love)
    1 Sunburst Anthias (Love Love)
    1 Orange Back Fairy Wrasse
    1 Diamond Goby (spaz)
    2 Green Chromis
    3 Skunk Shrimp
    1 Halloween Hermit Crab (Herman)
    20 Tinny Tinny Narssarius Snails
    2 big Narssarius Snails
    3 Margarita Snails

    New additions:

    Very Small Candy Cane Coral (2 heads)
    Very Small rock of Button Polyps

    Currently feeding frozen Mysis and Brine soaked with Selcon Concentrate and minced garlic (gets everywhere need to get liquid)

    The Flame Angel and my Yellow Tang are in the Holding 40g (separated)

    With the size of the tank (120g) adding this many fish with a seasoned bacteria didn't concern me too much. Perhaps it should have.

    I have 4 videos on youtube showing the progression of the tank from start to current I hope the link allows you to see all the videos. The last video shows the shape of the Flame Angel,(looks bad) then I noticed the tail on the Sunburst.. I hope its nothing.

    Here is the links:The numbers represent the start of the tank to present. Thanks a million Stang Man... is that Mustang man perhaps??



    Last edited: Apr 11, 2012
  5. Mike

    MikeFishloreAdmin Moderator Member

    Nice detailed post and video. Thanks for that.

    Good pickups on the skunk cleaner shrimps. They'll help keep your fish healthy while your tank settles in. If the flame angelfish is eating good and showing no outward signs of illness (lethargic, erratic swimming) it may be fine. Might just be your majestic angel picking on the flame angel?

    Re: the goby, be sure to place some food near the burrow of your diamond goby since your sand bed is new and won't have a lot of food items in it yet for the goby. They are known to carpet surf too.
  6. OP

    red_barronNew MemberMember

    Thanks Mike

    Ya I thought of the Majestic but have only seen him even go near the Flame at feeding time. The Goby (Spaz) likes to travel, he will actually swim up to get mysis, but leaving some by his door sound good. Everyone who has one should be told to make sure they use egg crate so they don't kill them selves.
    The Flame seems to be fine in everyway but the marks.???
  7. Stang Man

    Stang ManWell Known MemberMember

    Yeah I'm a mustang kinda guy I have a 65 that I totally restored and has been in the family since day one! When you have a chance go to my profile an look at my albums this will give you ideas of proper equipment for your tanks in the near future I built all my sumps and including the 30 gallon cube anyhow you will see what I'm talking about. The other that I would like to mention is the seaclone way to small for the 120 time to upgrade us it on the 40 just my opinion. Keep us informed of your progress would love to here from you.
  8. OP

    red_barronNew MemberMember

    Thanks for the reply I do am a Mustang guy, I have a Vista Blue 2006 GT Convertable. :) I wll check out your pics. The seaclone works but perhaps you are correct. I hadn't planned on a sump, my stand won't allow it (doors on either end not the middle). For now I will just be using the canisters. Any suggestions on good skimmers?
  9. Stang Man

    Stang ManWell Known MemberMember

    You can position a sump any where you please on the side of the tank or on one side or the other under the stand it doesn't matter. The reason I say a sump is that it does a tank justice and will carry the tank for many years and is 100 fold over any canister filter to be had. The other thing is the micro bubbles, and not all sumps will do is to release the micro bubbles before it returns to the tank. If you have looked at my pics you will see in the return chamber prior to release that there are three panels this is where the micro is released and does not return back to the tank this is a very important factor. Also a sump is the best place for a skimmer!!! I suggest a skimmer from RED SEA they are the top of the line yet they are pricey but well worth the money!! I bought mine back in the 80's and it still works the same as day one but I have had to change pumps for it several times throughout the years but that is a given, I have not yet to this day have had to replace it. Get one they are the best ever!!!
  10. Mike

    MikeFishloreAdmin Moderator Member

    I like the reef octopus line of skimmers. They are priced well and do a very good job in my experience. They have hang-on models, internal sump and external skimmers. My collection cup on my reef octopus skimmer is huge and I have to empty it at least once a day, sometimes twice. Skip to the 35 second mark in the video:

  11. OP

    red_barronNew MemberMember

    WOW! I can' t even respond to questions as fast as you two answer them! I talk to my LFS and the "guy" says all HOB are garbage. Only ones like yours in a sump are any good... Is that true?? So which one of you guys has the best skimmer (starts the fight) The Red Sea Skimmer or the Octopus? oh the reason I mentioned no room for the sump was the fact that my door don't allow me to put a tank underneath the stand. Only one that would fit though the doors about 14" and turn at 90 degrees, not so good. My tank is in the living room so I don't really want a tank sitting beside the main one, (won't look right). I know the SeaClone is a hated name but if the filter is cleaned it actually seems to "skim" but not to the level Mike is talking about, (once or twice a day). Thanks for the video by the way, that thing is a Monster!
  12. Stang Man

    Stang ManWell Known MemberMember

    Yes hang on the back are for smaller tank Nano tanks under 30 gallons. What you would need to do is empty the tank enough so that you can move back enough to fit the sump through the back side not the front and be able to position the overflow box and the sump to one side of the tank, I imagine that there is plenty of space from the back side is that correct? I vote totally Red Sea skimmers they are the top line and have several different options such as a cup with a drain tube so that you don't have to drain ever day. In my honest opinion if you have to dump a cup ever day then you are feeding to much and should be controlled, or in your case is not enough bio load to sustain the tank( meaning not enough live rock) to sustain the proper filtration for that size tank... Get more live rock soon or you will face the bad things that will happen. By all means I'm not saying that you are in the bad but should be a high priority for the life of your tank. For any size tank you should have for start up is 1- 1/12 pounds per gallon of volume to start out with I do not see that in your tank it is more like an 1/8 or less this has a bad reflect on the water quality as well as the sustainability for any life in the future of the tank. Did you check out the pics I asked you to check out in my profile?
  13. Mike

    MikeFishloreAdmin Moderator Member

    For HOB skimmers I've used the Red Sea Prizm Pro (rated for up to 300 gallons) and the Reef Octopus 800s (rated for up to 135 gallons). The Reef Octopus 800s out-performed the Red Sea Prizm Pro by a large margin.

    My skimmer's collection cup holds around 6 to 8 cups if I had to guess and I have around 120 pounds of live rock in my 120 gallon reef tank and in conjunction with the biopellets it's plenty for the bio-filter (nitrates are nil). I do tend to have a heavy hand when feeding the fish though.
  14. OP

    red_barronNew MemberMember

    Thanks again for the quick reply guys. I am going to check out the Reef Octopus 800 and the Red Sea Skimmers and see what the web has to say about them. As for my LR I realize I require more but I do not want to just dump rock in because of the "rule of thumb" I don't even know who this "thumb guy" is anyway. I have been doing a lot of reading and hearing that, the amount of LR people are using (and believe is needed) changes from blog to blog. I read "the more the rock the better" and wonder if people starting in the hobby are being steered in the right direction? Then I read the aqascape and porousness of the rock is more important to take advantage of the inner surface area of the LR which we do not give enough credit to. If I put 200lbs of live rock in the tank which is perfectly flat (a cube if you will) on all sides with no holes and stack them together will my tank still thrive? Or will less live rock say 100lbs which is extremely porous and full of holes allow better water penetration and there for work better with less rock needed? I have seen too many tank setups where it looks as though someone had a dump truck back up to their tank and dump in rock (the right #of lbs though) into a big pile with no flow or area for fish to swim around in. I personally don't plan to have more then possibly 10 fish at any given time (thats "The Plan"). I don't want a tank where fish just keep bumping into each other all day. So I want them to have lots of swimming room and water flow to keep them happy. I plan to keep an eye on my levels which are good currently and add rock as needed. I will add another 50lbs in future. Do you think I should have a different approach to this?
  15. Stang Man

    Stang ManWell Known MemberMember

    As you have seen in my 75 ikept as much of the rock off the floor as possible, by doing this it gives more surface area for water flow and also the more rock the more benefiicial bacteria load is way better it creates a stronger tank by all means. If your only going to have fish then 1 pound per gallon if planning for a reef then 1 1/2- 2 pounds is ideal. The bad thing about starting the rock is it should all be in the tank at first before any fish or life added, Also the other thing is for your situation you will need to buy fully cured rock and is very pricey! My suggestion prior to adding any more rock is to cycle the rock in a plastic tub and monitor the rock for two weeks before adding to your display tank. Check all parameters every second day, or you can just buy rock that is fresh and cure the rock this way as well and use a power head in the tub for proper curing this is what I do.
  16. OP

    red_barronNew MemberMember

    The method you suggested is what was done with the rock that is in the tank now. It was to be "fully cured" but I bucketed it anyways although I never did get a spike. I can' t remember how many lbs are currently in the tank but I think will try for 1lb/per then see if more is needed.
    P.S. a side note on my tank, the front and the back of the stand are exactly the same. I got a good deal on it (tank, stand and 2 fluval 403s for $400) but I wasn't thinking about a sump when I picked it up.
  17. Stang Man

    Stang ManWell Known MemberMember

    Okay well that's awesome that you did cure or at least didn't just put the rock in the DT , I would cut out the back of the stand and put the sump in, if you could get a few pictures of the outside back and inside I can help you figure out that situation.

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