Fishless cycling using bloodworms? And needing confirmation

Hello, everyone. This will be my first time keeping fish. I’m planning on keeping African dwarf frogs in this tank and later adding a betta. Maybe a snail. Any of them I am prepared to separate in case they do not get along.

I’m trying to figure out a few things about the cycling process. Before I ask my questions, here is some information on my set up: I have a 10 gallon tank. I’m using sand substrate that I’ve rinsed. I currently have two medium sized decorations and mini terracotta pots but will later be adding smooth rocks and real plants after the cycling process (I did some research on this and I just thought it less complicated for me during testing). For the filter I’ve replaced the cartridge with a coarse sponge. I’ve purchased the API tap water conditioner and the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. Tomorrow I’m getting their Quick Start bottle in the mail since supposedly it would help speed up the cycling process.

I’m wondering if I can use the Hikari freeze-dried bloodworms for cycling. I also have a small container of newt and aquatic frog food that was kind of expensive so for that reason I’d rather not use that for cycling. I’ve read that this process can take anywhere between 2 weeks-2 months, so I’m thinking I would end up using that whole container, if not most of it. Would using pure ammonia be better/faster? Would I be adding food everyday during cycling? And if I’m using freeze-dried bloodworms, how many should I add? Should I ever take any of the old bloodworms out?

So these are the steps for fishless cycling as I understand it:

• Rinse off the tank, gravel, and decorations. Do not use soap. Set up the tank.
• Fill tank with tap water and add conditioner.
• Run the filter and heater until water is 78 degrees.
• Add fish food (I’ll be adding the Quick Start tomorrow).
• Test every other day until ammonia and nitrite are 0, and nitrate is 5ppm or 10ppm (I’m going with betta instructions here. I wasn’t able to find nitrate for African dwarf frogs other than it should be below 20). PH should be between 6.8 and 7.2 on chart.
• Add more fish food (and Quick Start?). Repeat last step until ammonia and nitrate drop to 0 in a 24 hour period. I would repeat this step once more just to make sure.
• Once everything reads correctly, turn off the filter and do a 80% water change. Fill a bucket with tap water and add water conditioner (How long do I have to wait before adding the water to the tank, especially for when I have fish in there?). Make sure water is close to 78 degrees before adding to the tank.
• Turn filter back on.

Are any further tests needed after this? I plan on doing a 25% water change once a week, including using a syphon. Should I then test again or sometime before?

This was a lot of questions, sorry. I just want to make sure I’m doing everything correctly.

 

I am sorry I confused you. Every now and then someone will come here for help. They were seeing high nitrates and then all of a sudden they dropped down to 5ppm. When they do the dilution test they find that the nitrates are still there because the number goes back up. They are just so high they defaulted the test back down to 5.

It is strange that you are seeing basically the same amount of nitrates in both normal test and dilution test. I am not sure what that means but it doesn't seem right. I am beginning to suspect your test isn't telling you the truth. Your nitrates really should be gradually going up by now.

Oh I’m sorry, I got confused ops: It’s weird that the test does that. What should I do about the nitrates? It’s scary that I can’t tell what they really are. What do you think about ammonia being 0.25?

 

I do not know that I have ever heard of someone using bloodworms to cycle a tank, but there is no reason that is would not work. Freeze dried blood worms are about 55% protein. Frozen bloodworms are about 18% protein, including the water weight. Thus, blood worms should work as well as using dried flakes or pellets or a piece of frozen shrimp or fish.

Many people have started cycling using either pure ammonia or ammonium chloride. However, I still like starting with a protein source (normally fish food) as cycling using that method also develops the bacteria that will convert uneaten fish food to ammonia. It is really up to you to choose whatever system works for you.

 

Oh I’m sorry, I got confused ops: It’s weird that the test does that. What should I do about the nitrates? It’s scary that I can’t tell what they really are. What do you think about ammonia being 0.25?

To be perfectly honest I wouldn't be overly concerned about the nitrate number. The important numbers are ammonia and nitrites. Has the ammonia stopped going down to zero within 24 hours of adding it? Has the pH dropped again?

Please refresh my memory. How long has it been since you first started adding ammonia?

 

To be perfectly honest I wouldn't be overly concerned about the nitrate number. The important numbers are ammonia and nitrites. Has the ammonia stopped going down to zero within 24 hours of adding it? Has the pH dropped again?

Please refresh my memory. How long has it been since you first started adding ammonia?

Okay, in the future, should I just be doing 50% water changes every week since I won't have a correct nitrate reading to go on? The last time I got a "true" ammonia reading of 0 was January 9th. On the 10th, I only tested for nitrite. On the 11th, is when I noticed that it had gone up to 0.25. I then did a water change. On the 12th, ammonia was 0, but I don't know if that was just because of the water change. On the 13th, ammonia was back to 0.25. The PH has dropped again. I got it back to 7.8 the day after it decreased to 6.6, but now it's 7.2-7.6 a day later. I've been adding ammonia ever since December 18th.

I do not know that I have ever heard of someone using bloodworms to cycle a tank, but there is no reason that is would not work. Freeze dried blood worms are about 55% protein. Frozen bloodworms are about 18% protein, including the water weight. Thus, blood worms should work as well as using dried flakes or pellets or a piece of frozen shrimp or fish.

Many people have started cycling using either pure ammonia or ammonium chloride. However, I still like starting with a protein source (normally fish food) as cycling using that method also develops the bacteria that will convert uneaten fish food to ammonia. It is really up to you to choose whatever system works for you.

Thank you, RayClem for the info. I wish I would have used fish flakes along with the ammonium chloride, but I think I'm too late in the cycle.

 

Okay, in the future, should I just be doing 50% water changes every week since I won't have a correct nitrate reading to go on? The last time I got a "true" ammonia reading of 0 was January 9th. On the 10th, I only tested for nitrite. On the 11th, is when I noticed that it had gone up to 0.25. I then did a water change. On the 12th, ammonia was 0, but I don't know if that was just because of the water change. On the 13th, ammonia was back to 0.25. The PH has dropped again. I got it back to 7.8 the day after it decreased to 6.6, but now it's 7.2-7.6 a day later. I've been adding ammonia ever since December 18th.

I wouldn't be panicking or getting overly concerned about the nitrate readings at this point. I seldom ever run the nitrate test now that I know my cycle is established. I just change out half the water each week. These dates confirm this cycle has only been growing for less than a month. What you are seeing may not be as unusual as I first thought. I thought it had been longer than this.

Do another water change to get the pH back up. If it continues to drop after that I will recommend you get some crushed coral. Put it in a media bag and run it in your filter. It will stabilize the pH. You may or may not need to continue using it after the cycle is done but leaving it in there isn't going to hurt anything.

Thank you, RayClem for the info. I wish I would have used fish flakes along with the ammonium chloride, but I think I'm too late in the cycle.

It really isn't too late to start adding a pinch every couple of days. I could very well help.

 

I wouldn't be panicking or getting overly concerned about the nitrate readings at this point. I seldom ever run the nitrate test now that I know my cycle is established. I just change out half the water each week. These dates confirm this cycle has only been growing for less than a month. What you are seeing may not be as unusual as I first thought. I thought it had been longer than this.

Do another water change to get the pH back up. If it continues to drop after that I will recommend you get some crushed coral. Put it in a media bag and run it in your filter. It will stabilize the pH. You may or may not need to continue using it after the cycle is done but leaving it in there isn't going to hurt anything.



It really isn't too late to start adding a pinch every couple of days. I could very well help.

I tested the parameters and afterwards did a water change. PH had lowered again.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: ? (very clear with a tiny amount of purple in it)
Nitrate: 5
PH: 7
I will pick up a bag of crushed coral at Petsmart if the PH lowers again. I added 60 drops along with a pinch of flakes. Also, I added the cholla wood and more plants. The plants didn't seem to be doing well in the alum dip, and I've been anxious to see them in the tank.

 

I see this so often when doing a fishless cycle. Things seem to be going along just as they should and then this. These tanks are one of the main reasons I have started suggesting the addition of fish food along with the liquid ammonia. In some tanks something is missing when it is only being fed liquid ammonia.

I don't know what determines which tank it is going to happen to. I have to think it has something to do with the chemistry of our water. Something is missing. When doing a fish in cycle the fish are providing what the bacteria needs. It seems all bets are off when doing it fishless thus the reason for adding the food the fish would have been eating.

This cycle should be very close to done. Hopefully once you get the pH stabilized with the crushed coral and are now adding a pinch of food daily it will have what it needs to finish up.

 

I see this so often when doing a fishless cycle. Things seem to be going along just as they should and then this. These tanks are one of the main reasons I have started suggesting the addition of fish food along with the liquid ammonia. In some tanks something is missing when it is only being fed liquid ammonia.

I don't know what determines which tank it is going to happen to. I have to think it has something to do with the chemistry of our water. Something is missing. When doing a fish in cycle the fish are providing what the bacteria needs. It seems all bets are off when doing it fishless thus the reason for adding the food the fish would have been eating.

This cycle should be very close to done. Hopefully once you get the pH stabilized with the crushed coral and are now adding a pinch of food daily it will have what it needs to finish up.

Yes, it did seem like things were going smoothly and then all of a sudden there’s this change. I really do wonder how much quicker this might have gone if I would have used the flakes with the ammonium chloride. I am hopeful that the cycle will be complete soon. I just get a bit anxious to finish since I can see that I am so close, if that makes sense. Well, in the meantime, I get to decorate.
This is kind of off topic, but I was curious if you keep driftwood that’s been taken from outside in your tanks? I asked a question concerning cleaning, and I was surprised that many don’t sanitize. Just maybe a scrub to get debris off, if that, and soaking it in water.

 

Yes, it did seem like things were going smoothly and then all of a sudden there’s this change. I really do wonder how much quicker this might have gone if I would have used the flakes with the ammonium chloride. I am hopeful that the cycle will be complete soon. I just get a bit anxious to finish since I can see that I am so close, if that makes sense. Well, in the meantime, I get to decorate.
This is kind of off topic, but I was curious if you keep driftwood that’s been taken from outside in your tanks? I asked a question concerning cleaning, and I was surprised that many don’t sanitize. Just maybe a scrub to get debris off, if that, and soaking it in water.

We can't know the answer to that. All we can do is go from here.

Yes, I do use wood I've picked up in my yard. I know there have been no kind of pesticides used in my yard so feel it is safe to just wash it off, make sure all the bark is off and go ahead and add it to my tank. I've had to weigh each piece down until it gets water logged and will stay down on its own. Normally cleaning with scrub brush and the hottest water you can will kill anything that might be harmful.

Most of the pieces I've used come from an oak tree. You don't want to use anything other than dead wood. All the pieces I've used are dead pieces that have fallen from the tree. Some of the pieces have stayed on my deck for up to a year before I used them.

I also collect dried leaves each fall. Mostly mulberry and oak leaves. I do collect some fresh mulberry and dandelion leaves. I keep them in my freezer to feed to my snails.

Quite often you will see various fungus looking things grow on new wood but for the most part it is harmless. The older and dryer the wood, I have to think, the less fungus we will see. I've not seen any kind but others here on the forum have.

 

I tested the parameters and afterwards did a water change. PH had lowered again.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: ? (very clear with a tiny amount of purple in it)
Nitrate: 5
PH: 7
I will pick up a bag of crushed coral at Petsmart if the PH lowers again. I added 60 drops along with a pinch of flakes. Also, I added the cholla wood and more plants. The plants didn't seem to be doing well in the alum dip, and I've been anxious to see them in the tank.

When your ammonia test is bright yellow and your nitrite test is sky blue for a few days in a row, you should be done. It sounds like you are getting close. The presence of nitrates indicates that colonies of bacteria are developing to convert nitrites into nitrates.

Alum is acidic, so be sure to rinse your plants well before transferring them into your tank. Otherwise, your pH will drop even more.

What is the general hardness of your water? Crushed coral will raise your pH and KH, but it will also increase your GH. if your water is soft, raising GH may be a good thing. If your water is already hard, I would not recommend crushed coral. Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) will raise pH and KH

 

We can't know the answer to that. All we can do is go from here.

Yes, I do use wood I've picked up in my yard. I know there have been no kind of pesticides used in my yard so feel it is safe to just wash it off, make sure all the bark is off and go ahead and add it to my tank. I've had to weigh each piece down until it gets water logged and will stay down on its own. Normally cleaning with scrub brush and the hottest water you can will kill anything that might be harmful.

Most of the pieces I've used come from an oak tree. You don't want to use anything other than dead wood. All the pieces I've used are dead pieces that have fallen from the tree. Some of the pieces have stayed on my deck for up to a year before I used them.

I also collect dried leaves each fall. Mostly mulberry and oak leaves. I do collect some fresh mulberry and dandelion leaves. I keep them in my freezer to feed to my snails.

Quite often you will see various fungus looking things grow on new wood but for the most part it is harmless. The older and dryer the wood, I have to think, the less fungus we will see. I've not seen any kind but others here on the forum have.

I have a piece of very smooth driftwood, but I think it might take up too much space because of what I already have in the tank. Thank you for sharing your process. It's neat how you're able to feed your snails with leaves. I've seen the white film that can appear on wood. I'd rather have algae than fungus. Actually, I've gotten used to that bit of algae that appeared in the tank, as long as it doesn't get out of control.

When your ammonia test is bright yellow and your nitrite test is sky blue for a few days in a row, you should be done. It sounds like you are getting close. The presence of nitrates indicates that colonies of bacteria are developing to convert nitrites into nitrates.

Alum is acidic, so be sure to rinse your plants well before transferring them into your tank. Otherwise, your pH will drop even more.

What is the general hardness of your water? Crushed coral will raise your pH and KH, but it will also increase your GH. if your water is soft, raising GH may be a good thing. If your water is already hard, I would not recommend crushed coral. Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) will raise pH and KH

I thought I rinsed the plants well before placing them in the tank. For, like, a couple of minutes. I hope I haven't introduced something that will harm the cycle and the future snail.

Straight from the tap, my pH is 8.2. It's been declining drastically everyday, though, it seems. I've been having to keep up with water changes to bring it back up from 6.6 (the lowest it's gotten) to 7.2-7.8.

A big change today...
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 2!
Nitrate: 5
pH: 7.2-7.6
These results are from after adding the fish flakes. I added them again along with the ammonium chloride. The second photo of nitrite is of me holding it slightly above the chart to maybe get a clearer reading, since I recently read about this tip.

 

This is telling me your nitrites were struggling. The flakes added something the bacteria needed. It is good that this happened BEFORE you added fish and started feeding them. This right here is why I have started suggesting folks add fish food along with the bottled ammonia. This doesn't happen in every tank but happens often enough for me to notice the bacteria in a fishless cycle needs something not present in bottled ammonia.

 

This is telling me your nitrites were struggling. The flakes added something the bacteria needed. It is good that this happened BEFORE you added fish and started feeding them. This right here is why I have started suggesting folks add fish food along with the bottled ammonia. This doesn't happen in every tank but happens often enough for me to notice the bacteria in a fishless cycle needs something not present in bottled ammonia.

It’s a relief to finally get a clear reading from nitrite. And, yes, I feel like we’ve dodged a bullet adding the flakes in advance. Thank you, mattgirl!

 

It’s a relief to finally get a clear reading from nitrite. And, yes, I feel like we’ve dodged a bullet adding the flakes in advance. Thank you, mattgirl!

You are so very welcome. I feel sure there are those here that don't agree with what I now suggest and that's alright but If I can get seemingly stalled cycles moving forward or stop it from happening in the first place I will be happy.

Personally I feel doing a fish in cycle builds a more natural cycle but for those that would prefer fishless this should work just about as well.

Are you able to get your hands on some crushed coral? even limestone or crushed oyster shells may work just as well. Once this cycle is complete you may not need any of them but we do need to stabilize your pH. We don't want to let it drop below 7 again.

Some folks advise using baking soda to raise the pH but since I've never used it I am not comfortable giving advice on using it. Since this is a fishless cycle it would probably be safe to use it. Just remember a little goes a long way.

 

You are so very welcome. I feel sure there are those here that don't agree with what I now suggest and that's alright but If I can get seemingly stalled cycles moving forward or stop it from happening in the first place I will be happy.

Personally I feel doing a fish in cycle builds a more natural cycle but for those that would prefer fishless this should work just about as well.

Are you able to get your hands on some crushed coral? even limestone or crushed oyster shells may work just as well. Once this cycle is complete you may not need any of them but we do need to stabilize your pH. We don't want to let it drop below 7 again.

Some folks advise using baking soda to raise the pH but since I've never used it I am not comfortable giving advice on using it. Since this is a fishless cycle it would probably be safe to use it. Just remember a little goes a long way.

I probably won't be able to go out today. I can order some crushed oyster shells and the bio media bags on Amazon, but I've ran out of time for same day delivery. Are these alright?
Crushed oyster shells: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MD59TC/ref=ox_sc_act_image_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 (It mentions having "coral calcium". I wonder if I could substitute cuttlebone for the mystery snail if I used this...?)
Bio media bags: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P8M56D1/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=ABUBVO5R84FR4&psc=1

These items wouldn't arrive until tomorrow. Should I go ahead and do a water change now? I suspect the pH is going to go down again by tonight. I do have some baking soda. I'm reading that it would be a teaspoon per 5 gallons. I am concerned about the plants, though. Maybe I should make a thread about this...

 

Those things should work and yes it would even be good for your snails. Even if the pH drops overnight it won't be down long enough to affect what we are doing. Getting it back up tomorrow when the OS gets to you shouldn't be a problem

Should you choose to do so I don't think the baking soda will harm your plants specially since it takes such a small amount of it to get the job done.

 

Those things should work and yes it would even be good for your snails.

I don't think the baking soda will harm your plants specially since it takes such a small amount of it to get the job done.

Crushed coral is aragonite which is comprised of both calcium and magnesium carbonates. Thus, it will raise GH as well as pH and alkalinity. Oyster shells, like cuttlebone, are composed primarily of calcium carbonate, along with some traces of other minerals. The calcium will be great for your snails as their shells are composed primarily of calcium carbonate. However, plants need magnesium in the water as well, so if you have live plants, be on the lookout for magnesium deficiency. If you do need more magnesium, that can be supplied by adding small amounts of Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate).

 

Those things should work and yes it would even be good for your snails.

I don't think the baking soda will harm your plants specially since it takes such a small amount of it to get the job done.

Okay, I’m still trying to make up my mind what I’m going to do. I’ll update later on

Crushed coral is aragonite which is comprised of both calcium and magnesium carbonates. Thus, it will raise GH as well as pH and alkalinity. Oyster shells, like cuttlebone, are composed primarily of calcium carbonate, along with some traces of other minerals. The calcium will be great for your snails as their shells are composed primarily of calcium carbonate. However, plants need magnesium in the water as well, so if you have live plants, be on the lookout for magnesium deficiency. If you do need more magnesium, that can be supplied by adding small amounts of Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate).

Thank you very much for the input, RayClem. Do you think oyster shells are more effective than cuttlebone in giving snails calcium? For the plants, I was thinking of purchasing Seachem Flourish. There appears to be magnesium sulfate in that, but what do you think of the product?

 

Okay, I’m still trying to make up my mind what I’m going to do. I’ll update later on

Thank you very much for the input, RayClem. Do you think oyster shells are more effective than cuttlebone in giving snails calcium? For the plants, I was thinking of purchasing Seachem Flourish. There appears to be magnesium sulfate in that, but what do you think of the product?

You were too quick for me I edited my last post but may have been too slow and you may have missed my additional information.

From all I've read and experienced Flourish contains very little of what plants actually need. That is actually what I started out with. If you decide to use the Seachem line of products you may need to buy several products or you may want to just go with an all in one liquid fert such as Thrive.

 

You were too quick for me I edited my last post but may have been too slow and you may have missed my additional information.

From all I've read and experienced Flourish contains very little of what plants actually need. That is actually what I started out with. If you decide to use the Seachem line of products you may need to buy several products or you may want to just go with an all in one liquid fert such as Thrive.

Oh, sorry! I went back and read At first, I was thinking of going with Aquarium Co-Op’s Easy Green Fertilizer. Either that or Thrive, I’ll probably have to wait on purchasing them since this issue with the pH came up and I might have to buy items for that. How long can the plants go without fertilizer?

 

Okay, I’m still trying to make up my mind what I’m going to do. I’ll update later on

Thank you very much for the input, RayClem. Do you think oyster shells are more effective than cuttlebone in giving snails calcium? For the plants, I was thinking of purchasing Seachem Flourish. There appears to be magnesium sulfate in that, but what do you think of the product?

I do not know whether oyster shell calcium is more effective than cuttlebone. I suspect they both will work. One thing I like about cuttlebone is that you break off a piece and drop it into the aquarium. When it is gone, you add another piece.

Seachem Flourish Comprehensive does have some magnesium, but it is only 0.11% which is pretty small. Seachem is assuming that your water has enough hardness to supply magnesium. Thrive C is an all in one fertilizer that contains. 0.29% magnesium which is nearly 3 times the Seachem product. I am not necessarily saying that Thrive is better than Seachem. What I am saying is that every company has a different theory on what balance of nutrients is "best". However, you have to figure out which one is best for your specific situation.

 

I do not know whether oyster shell calcium is more effective than cuttlebone. I suspect they both will work. OPne thing I like about cuttlebone is that you break off a piece and drop it into the aquarium. When it is gone, you add another piece.

Seachem Flourish Comprehensive does have some magnesium, but it is only 0.11% which is pretty small. Seachem is assuming that your water has enough hardness to supply magnesium. Thrive C is an all in one fertilizer that contains. 0.29% magnesium which is nearly 3 times the Seachem product. I am not necessarily saying that Thrive is better than Seachem. What I am saying is that every company has a different theory on what balance of nutrients is "best". However, you have to figure out which one is best for your specific situation.

I'm assuming that a bag of oyster shells would last longer than a whole medium-sized piece of cuttlebone. Is this correct?

I think I'll go with a different fertilizer than Seachem. How long can I wait to give the plants fertilizer?

 

Oh, sorry! I went back and read At first, I was thinking of going with Aquarium Co-Op’s Easy Green Fertilizer. Either that or Thrive, I’ll probably have to wait on purchasing them since this issue with the pH came up and I might have to buy items for that. How long can the plants go without fertilizer?

They should be alright for a while but of course I can't guarantee that. These water changes are keeping fresh minerals in there so that should help them. Please don't get too discourage if some of the leaves start melting. If they do just clip them off. It isn't unusual for plants to lose some leaves as they get used to our water.

 

They should be alright for a while but of course I can't guarantee that. These water changes are keeping fresh minerals in there so that should help them. Please don't get too discourage if some of the leaves start melting. If they do just clip them off. It isn't unusual for plants to lose some leaves as they get used to our water.

Unfortunately, my elodea plant didn’t seem to handle the alum dip very well. I may have to toss it. I’ll try not to get too discouraged if I see the other plants deteriorate a little.
Somewhat the same results this morning:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 2
Nitrate: 5
pH: 7.2
The pH isn’t as low as I thought it would be. For now, I’ve decided to go with baking soda because I already have it, but I haven’t added it yet. There’s some other things I’ll have to buy that I wasn’t expecting, and I’m kind of on a tighter budget now that I’m this far into the set up. If after the cycling process the pH continues to drop, I’ll use the crushed oyster shells. I’ve read that they slowly increase the pH over time. How slow is this? Does this mean that I’ll have to eventually take them out before the pH gets too high?

 

Unfortunately, my elodea plant didn’t seem to handle the alum dip very well. I may have to toss it. I’ll try not to get too discouraged if I see the other plants deteriorate a little.
Somewhat the same results this morning:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 2
Nitrate: 5
pH: 7.2
The pH isn’t as low as I thought it would be. For now, I’ve decided to go with baking soda because I already have it, but I haven’t added it yet. There’s some other things I’ll have to buy that I wasn’t expecting, and I’m kind of on a tighter budget now that I’m this far into the set up. If after the cycling process the pH continues to drop, I’ll use the crushed oyster shells. I’ve read that they slowly increase the pH over time. How slow is this? Does this mean that I’ll have to eventually take them out before the pH gets too high?

If your pH holds at this number you may not need to add anything. Both crushed coral and oyster shells will only raise the pH so high and no more. I can't tell you what that number will be as it depends on the chemistry of your water. Once it reaches that number it will go no higher. It raises it very slowly so there is no need to be concerned about it doing it to fast. Even it it did it wouldn't be a problem if no fish are in the tank. It works by very slowly dissolving.

Before tossing any plants check the roots. If they still look healthy the plant still has a chance of coming back. Lots of plants were grown with just their roots in the water. When we get them they have to adjust to being under water thus the reason for the leaf loss.

 

If your pH holds at this number you may not need to add anything. Both crushed coral and oyster shells will only raise the pH so high and no more. I can't tell you what that number will be as it depends on the chemistry of your water. Once it reaches that number it will go no higher. It raises it very slowly so there is no need to be concerned about it doing it to fast. Even it it did it wouldn't be a problem if no fish are in the tank. It works by very slowly dissolving.

Before tossing any plants check the roots. If they still look healthy the plant still has a chance of coming back. Lots of plants were grown with just their roots in the water. When we get them they have to adjust to being under water thus the reason for the leaf loss.

Okay, great. I think the elodea was growing some new roots higher up the stems, but I’m not sure about now. I’ll check.

 

Okay, great. I think the elodea was growing some new roots higher up the stems, but I’m not sure about now. I’ll check.

Most stem plants do that. You can just leave them floating until they start to develop roots. Then you can plant them if you wish or leave them floating.

 

Most stem plants do that. You can just leave them floating until they start to develop roots. Then you can plant them if you wish or leave them floating.

This is what the elodea looks like right now. I think pretty much all of it is discolored.

 

This is what the elodea looks like right now. I think pretty much all of it is discolored.

I would just leave it in there and give it a chance. Hopefully you will start seeing some new green growth at the tips.

 

Good morning!
Ammonia seems to now be taking two days to return to 0. Nitrite is that rich magenta color, so it’s reading a color that isn’t on the chart or anything between any of the colors.
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: ?
Nitrate: 5
pH: 7.2

 

Good morning!
Ammonia seems to now be taking two days to return to 0. Nitrite is that rich magenta color, so it’s reading a color that isn’t on the chart or anything between any of the colors.
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: ?
Nitrate: 5
pH: 7.2

I have to be perfectly honest here. I can't for the life of me figure out why your nitrates aren't going up. It is not making any kind of sense to me. It is possible you've not had much in the way of nitrites before now but even that isn't making any kind of sense. The ammonia eating bacteria has been given lots of food so there should have been a big spike in nitrites at some point.

How much fish food are you adding? I wouldn't expect this drastic a difference with just a tiny pinch of food being added. All I can suggest at this point is just give it time. Don't do anything. Don't even run the tests other than the pH test for a few days. The fish food is in there now so it is going to feed the bacteria for several days.

 

I have to be perfectly honest here. I can't for the life of me figure out why your nitrates aren't going up. It is not making any kind of sense to me. It is possible you've not had much in the way of nitrites before now but even that isn't making any kind of sense. The ammonia eating bacteria has been given lots of food so there should have been a big spike in nitrites at some point.

How much fish food are you adding? I wouldn't expect this drastic a difference with just a tiny pinch of food being added. All I can suggest at this point is just give it time. Don't do anything. Don't even run the tests other than the pH test for a few days. The fish food is in there now so it is going to feed the bacteria for several days.

It is pretty weird. It almost seems like I’ve taken a step back with this. Okay, I won’t run any tests besides the pH, or add any ammonia or flakes, for three days. The ammonium chloride bottle is a little less than 1/4 of the way empty, so I’m glad to take a break. Here’s a picture of just about the amount of flakes I’ve been adding. I ordered the API GH and KH kit, so I’m going to test my tap and tank water with that.

 

If it is taking 2 days for ammonia levels to drop to zero after adding ammonia, one of two things is going on:
1. You may be adding too much ammonia.
or
2. You still do not have enough bacteria to convert ammonia to nitrite.

It sounds like your nitrite levels are super high, probably over 5 ppm. If you really want to find out the actual concentration, rather than testing 5 ml of tank water, mix 1 ml of tank water with 4 ml of tap water. Then when you run the test, multiply your result by a factor of five to account for the dilution.

If the nitrite levels stay really high, you might need to do some water changes to get it back into range. Do not bother to run the nitrate test until your nitrates come back in line. If nitrites are high, you will always get a high nitrate test as well.

 

If it is taking 2 days for ammonia levels to drop to zero after adding ammonia, one of two things is going on:
1. You may be adding too much ammonia.
or
2. You still do not have enough bacteria to convert ammonia to nitrite.

It sounds like your nitrite levels are super high, probably over 5 ppm. If you really want to find out the actual concentration, rather than testing 5 ml of tank water, mix 1 ml of tank water with 4 ml of tap water. Then when you run the test, multiply your result by a factor of five to account for the dilution.

If the nitrite levels stay really high, you might need to do some water changes to get it back into range. Do not bother to run the nitrate test until your nitrates come back in line. If nitrites are high, you will always get a high nitrate test as well.

Ammonia was clearing up in 24 hours before, but it’s since been more. I guess because I’ve been adding the flakes with the ammonium chloride? But I added the flakes because nitrites were kind of stalling out and giving me unclear readings, the liquid being clear rather than a color on the chart. I’ll do the dilution test for nitrites. Thank you for the tip. I’ve done two (or three?) water changes during this cycle so far. I guess I’ll see what everything reads in three days, and then decide whether I need to do a water change. I am concerned about the pH going out of balance again by that, though.

I went with your recommendation to buy a GH and KH kit. From the tap, KH took 7 drops, and GH took 9.

 

It is pretty weird. It almost seems like I’ve taken a step back with this. Okay, I won’t run any tests besides the pH, or add any ammonia or flakes, for three days. The ammonium chloride bottle is a little less than 1/4 of the way empty, so I’m glad to take a break. Here’s a picture of just about the amount of flakes I’ve been adding. I ordered the API GH and KH kit, so I’m going to test my tap and tank water with that.

that looks to be the perfect amount. There should be enough in there to keep the ammonia eating bacteria well fed for at least the 3 days whiles e are giving it a rest. Should your pH crash again you may need to add baking soda. Start with a small amount (1/2 teaspoon) and go from there. We don't want to have to do a water change yet.

If it is taking 2 days for ammonia levels to drop to zero after adding ammonia, one of two things is going on:
1. You may be adding too much ammonia.
or
2. You still do not have enough bacteria to convert ammonia to nitrite.

It sounds like your nitrite levels are super high, probably over 5 ppm. If you really want to find out the actual concentration, rather than testing 5 ml of tank water, mix 1 ml of tank water with 4 ml of tap water. Then when you run the test, multiply your result by a factor of five to account for the dilution.

If the nitrite levels stay really high, you might need to do some water changes to get it back into range. Do not bother to run the nitrate test until your nitrates come back in line. If nitrites are high, you will always get a high nitrate test as well.

The thing is, she isn't seeing the nitrates going up. They have been holding at a steady 5 Water changes have been done and haven't change the number at all. The nitrites finally showed up after we started adding a pinch of fish food.

 

that looks to be the perfect amount. There should be enough in there to keep the ammonia eating bacteria well fed for at least the 3 days whiles e are giving it a rest. Should your pH crash again you may need to add baking soda. Start with a small amount (1/2 teaspoon) and go from there. We don't want to have to do a water change yet.

The thing is, she isn't seeing the nitrates going up. They have been holding at a steady 5 Water changes have been done and haven't change the number at all. The nitrites finally showed up after we started adding a pinch of fish food.

The pH decreased again. It read 6.8, so I added some baking soda. Before adding it, I checked the GH and KH of the tank water. KH is 6, and GH is 16, a big difference from the GH of my tap water.

 

The pH decreased again. It read 6.8, so I added some baking soda. Before adding it, I checked the GH and KH of the tank water. KH is 6, and GH is 16, a big difference from the GH of my tap water.

I will admit. I don't know nearly as much about what the numbers mean or really even what's good and not so good. It seems a lot of folks stress the importance of the numbers but in my case if the pH holds steady or if we can get it to hold steady, knowing the exact numbers looses some of their importance. Once we get fish the most important thing is stability.

Some folks want to know the exact how's and why's of the gh/kh numbers. I will readily admit, I don't know. It has simply never been that important to me. In my case, instead of test the gh/kh numbers I simply use my TDS meter. It told me I was missing minerals. Of course it doesn't tell me exactly what the missing minerals are.

I stabilize my pH with crushed coral and add missing minerals with Equilibrium. If not for the plants needing what Equilibrium adds I wouldn't even be using it. I prefer working with what comes out of the tap no matter the numbers if at all possible.

 

I will admit. I don't know nearly as much about what the numbers mean or really even what's good and not so good. It seems a lot of folks stress the importance of the numbers but in my case if the pH holds steady or if we can get it to hold steady, knowing the exact numbers looses some of their importance. Once we get fish the most important thing is stability.

Some folks want to know the exact how's and why's of the gh/kh numbers. I will readily admit, I don't know. It has simply never been that important to me. In my case, instead of test the gh/kh numbers I simply use my TDS meter. It told me I was missing minerals. Of course it doesn't tell me exactly what the missing minerals are.

I stabilize my pH with crushed coral and add missing minerals with Equilibrium. If not for the plants needing what Equilibrium adds I wouldn't even be using it. I prefer working with what comes out of the tap no matter the numbers if at all possible.

What happens during water changes? Since my tap water has a pH of 8.2, and the pH of my tank has been on the lower end, won’t there be too high of a rise for the fish when doing water changes? pH is reading 7.0-7.1 today, but I didn’t get to test at the 24 hour mark of adding baking soda; it was several hours afterwards. I didn’t add anymore baking soda.

About the crushed oyster shells, if I find that the pH is still unstable after cycling, how long will it take for the crushed shells to establish the pH in the tank? I’m wondering if it would be okay to add the fish in right away when/if I first add the shells.

 

What happens during water changes? Since my tap water has a pH of 8.2, and the pH of my tank has been on the lower end, won’t there be too high of a rise for the fish when doing water changes? pH is reading 7.0-7.1 today, but I didn’t get to test at the 24 hour mark of adding baking soda; it was several hours afterwards. I didn’t add anymore baking soda.

About the crushed oyster shells, if I find that the pH is still unstable after cycling, how long will it take for the crushed shells to establish the pH in the tank? I’m wondering if it would be okay to add the fish in right away when/if I first add the shells.

Have you run the 24 hour pH test on your tap water? Set out a glass of water straight from the tap. Run the test right away and again 24 hours later. The number you see after 24 hours is your actual pH number.

Quite often we see this with the pH during the cycling process but once the cycle is complete it stops dropping. It usually take 3 or 4 days for the pH to stabilize where it is going to be after adding CC/OS. Rinse them off to get the dust off. If you don't it will shoot the pH up much quicker.

we really don't know what to expect until the cycle is done so this is something I wouldn't be overly concerned about at this point.

 

Have you run the 24 hour pH test on your tap water? Set out a glass of water straight from the tap. Run the test right away and again 24 hours later. The number you see after 24 hours is your actual pH number.

Quite often we see this with the pH during the cycling process but once the cycle is complete it stops dropping. It usually take 3 or 4 days for the pH to stabilize where it is going to be after adding CC/OS. Rinse them off to get the dust off. If you don't it will shoot the pH up much quicker.

we really don't know what to expect until the cycle is done so this is something I wouldn't be overly concerned about at this point.

I’ll run the pH test on the tap water tonight. I was trying to think ahead of time for the crushed oyster shells, but I’ll see how things go. pH is still the same as yesterday. I’ve been leaving it alone for now. Tomorrow I’ll test everything again. I’m really curious what’s been going on, and hopefully this is what was needed to get things where they should be.