Fishless cycling using bloodworms? And needing confirmation

Hello, everyone. This will be my first time keeping fish. I’m planning on keeping African dwarf frogs in this tank and later adding a betta. Maybe a snail. Any of them I am prepared to separate in case they do not get along.

I’m trying to figure out a few things about the cycling process. Before I ask my questions, here is some information on my set up: I have a 10 gallon tank. I’m using sand substrate that I’ve rinsed. I currently have two medium sized decorations and mini terracotta pots but will later be adding smooth rocks and real plants after the cycling process (I did some research on this and I just thought it less complicated for me during testing). For the filter I’ve replaced the cartridge with a coarse sponge. I’ve purchased the API tap water conditioner and the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. Tomorrow I’m getting their Quick Start bottle in the mail since supposedly it would help speed up the cycling process.

I’m wondering if I can use the Hikari freeze-dried bloodworms for cycling. I also have a small container of newt and aquatic frog food that was kind of expensive so for that reason I’d rather not use that for cycling. I’ve read that this process can take anywhere between 2 weeks-2 months, so I’m thinking I would end up using that whole container, if not most of it. Would using pure ammonia be better/faster? Would I be adding food everyday during cycling? And if I’m using freeze-dried bloodworms, how many should I add? Should I ever take any of the old bloodworms out?

So these are the steps for fishless cycling as I understand it:

• Rinse off the tank, gravel, and decorations. Do not use soap. Set up the tank.
• Fill tank with tap water and add conditioner.
• Run the filter and heater until water is 78 degrees.
• Add fish food (I’ll be adding the Quick Start tomorrow).
• Test every other day until ammonia and nitrite are 0, and nitrate is 5ppm or 10ppm (I’m going with betta instructions here. I wasn’t able to find nitrate for African dwarf frogs other than it should be below 20). PH should be between 6.8 and 7.2 on chart.
• Add more fish food (and Quick Start?). Repeat last step until ammonia and nitrate drop to 0 in a 24 hour period. I would repeat this step once more just to make sure.
• Once everything reads correctly, turn off the filter and do a 80% water change. Fill a bucket with tap water and add water conditioner (How long do I have to wait before adding the water to the tank, especially for when I have fish in there?). Make sure water is close to 78 degrees before adding to the tank.
• Turn filter back on.

Are any further tests needed after this? I plan on doing a 25% water change once a week, including using a syphon. Should I then test again or sometime before?

This was a lot of questions, sorry. I just want to make sure I’m doing everything correctly.

 

Do you think I'm still giving the tank 3-4ppm ammonia by giving 60-70 drops even though I was seeing it drop to 2ppm and now 0 within 24 hours? I'm still thinking of adding a betta, 2 frogs and a mystery snail. It's likely I won't be able to add anything else.

Oh, I see. I guess I'm too far into the cycle to add the fish food. The tank has finally cleared up completely. Depending on what reading I get today, it might be cycled soon.

I will admit I don't know. I've never used liquid ammonia so have no idea how much it takes to get to a specific number but somewhere around 2ppm should be plenty enough to handle the future bio-load of this tank.

Not everyone gets a spike in ammonia after doing a fishless cycle with liquid ammonia but it has happened often enough to have me wondering if something is missing when only using the liquid ammonia.

 

I will admit I don't know. I've never used liquid ammonia so have no idea how much it takes to get to a specific number but somewhere around 2ppm should be plenty enough to handle the future bio-load of this tank.

Not everyone gets a spike in ammonia after doing a fishless cycle with liquid ammonia but it has happened often enough to have me wondering if something is missing when only using the liquid ammonia.

I might be cycling the 5 gallon in the future. Every third day, should the old fish food be taken out and replaced with new food? Or does it break down completely?

Exciting results!

PH: 7.8
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0?!
Nitrate: 5

Now, with the nitrite... At first it looked like the color last time, but this may have been a little before the five minute wait time was up, I'm not sure. But for sure after five minutes it was 0.25-5. Then quickly it turned to 0 a few minutes later. I'm not sure what to make of this. I added 60 more drops. I'm going to double check and see what happens tomorrow.

I'm probably not going to be able to get the frogs and snail right away (I'll wait a little while longer to add the betta). Will I have to add more ammonia everyday until I put them in the tank?

 

I might be cycling the 5 gallon in the future. Every third day, should the old fish food be taken out and replaced with new food? Or does it break down completely?

No, there is no need to take the food out. You will only be adding a tiny pinch of it each time. I will recommend you use flakes and crush them up well before dropping it in there.

Once you get this tank cycled there is no need to ever have to go through this long drawn out cycling process again. Run extra media in your cycled tank and use it to seed another tank. I run extra sponge filters in my heavily stocked 55 gallon tank. When I need to set up another tank I just pull a sponge filter out and put it in the new tank. I add the sponge and the fish at the same time. I never get an ammonia or nitrite spike and start seeing nitrates within a week or so.

Exciting results!

PH: 7.8
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0?!
Nitrate: 5

Now, with the nitrite... At first it looked like the color last time, but this may have been a little before the five minute wait time was up, I'm not sure. But for sure after five minutes it was 0.25-5. Then quickly it turned to 0 a few minutes later. I'm not sure what to make of this. I added 60 more drops. I'm going to double check and see what happens tomorrow.

These are exciting results. You still have a little way to go. You don't want to see any purple in the nitrite test tube at all. You won't see anything but blue in the tube from start to finish.

I'm probably not going to be able to get the frogs and snail right away (I'll wait a little while longer to add the betta). Will I have to add more ammonia everyday until I put them in the tank?

Yes, you need to continue feeding the bacteria. You don't want to wait too long between adding the frog/snail and the Betta. Some bacteria will start dying off over time. If we are only talking about a week or so it shouldn't be a problem since you have grown lots of bacteria.

 

No, there is no need to take the food out. You will only be adding a tiny pinch of it each time. I will recommend you use flakes and crush them up well before dropping it in there.

Once you get this tank cycled there is no need to ever have to go through this long drawn out cycling process again. Run extra media in your cycled tank and use it to seed another tank. I run extra sponge filters in my heavily stocked 55 gallon tank. When I need to set up another tank I just pull a sponge filter out and put it in the new tank. I add the sponge and the fish at the same time. I never get an ammonia or nitrite spike and start seeing nitrates within a week or so.


These are exciting results. You still have a little way to go. You don't want to see any purple in the nitrite test tube at all. You won't see anything but blue in the tube from start to finish.


Yes, you need to continue feeding the bacteria. You don't want to wait too long between adding the frog/snail and the Betta. Some bacteria will start dying off over time. If we are only talking about a week or so it shouldn't be a problem since you have grown lots of bacteria.

Will the process still work if, after a month (the wait needed for the bacteria), I cut half of the sponge in my filter and transfer it to the 5 gallon? I would then replace the other halves with a new sponge. I would like to add an extra sponge filter in the future, but I think I've already taken up a lot of space in this tank once the plants go in.

Nitrite changed a bit today by the five minute mark. 0-0.25, but it was still very purple at the beginning. I'm actually glad it's taking a bit longer because I'm waiting on ordering some plants. Once the cycle is completed, I wouldn't wait longer than a week to add the frogs and snail. At bare minimum, I'm thinking of adding the betta a week or two afterwards. Two would be better so the tank will have been running cycled for three weeks, and if anything went wrong, I would only have to wait a week with a divider in the tank for the betta before transferring him to the 5 gallon. But maybe they should all go into the tank at the same time?

 

Once this tank is fully cycled meaning it is processing at least 2ppm ammonia straight through to nitrates within 24 hours of adding the ammonia there will be enough bacteria to handle the bio-load of snail, frog and Betta so all can be added at the same time.

It would be nice if we could get some feedback from others on what you are seeing in your nitrite test tube. All I can go by is what I see. Once my cycle was done I never saw purple again. I drop the drops in, cap, gently shake and never see purple at all. Just for the fun of it I occasionally run the tests on all my tanks. I get a constant yellow for ammonia, sky blue for nitrites and a variety of colors for nitrates. Never even a hit of green for ammonia or a hint of purple for nitrites.

I'm not sure I have asked this before. Please forgive me if I have. What kind of filter are you running on this tank? What kind of filter do you plan to run on the 5 gallon?

 

Once this tank is fully cycled meaning it is processing at least 2ppm ammonia straight through to nitrates within 24 hours of adding the ammonia there will be enough bacteria to handle the bio-load of snail, frog and Betta so all can be added at the same time.

It would be nice if we could get some feedback from others on what you are seeing in your nitrite test tube. All I can go by is what I see. Once my cycle was done I never saw purple again. I drop the drops in, cap, gently shake and never see purple at all. Just for the fun of it I occasionally run the tests on all my tanks. I get a constant yellow for ammonia, sky blue for nitrites and a variety of colors for nitrates. Never even a hit of green for ammonia or a hint of purple for nitrites.

I'm not sure I have asked this before. Please forgive me if I have. What kind of filter are you running on this tank? What kind of filter do you plan to run on the 5 gallon?

Oh, okay. Then I guess it's better for them all to be added in at the same time. Hopefully I can find the type of betta that I've been looking for near to where I live so I won't have to wait

This time after the five minute mark, the water turned almost clear. It was a really light blue. But I didn't count it as the actual reading.

No, it's okay, you didn't ask before. I bought the 10 gallon as a kit. It's the TopFin Essentials one, so I'm using their heater and filter. The filter is the TopFin PF10. The 5 gallon is also from them with a PF10 as well. I'd like to also add a mini sponge filter in it. Before the cycle began I took out the cartridge filter and replaced it with a sponge. I was thinking of using the same sponge material to cover the filter intake so no one's fins would be sucked in.

The tank has begun making algae. I made a thread about it because I wasn't sure what these orange spots were on the head decoration. Something strange in tank | Freshwater Aquarium Discussion Forum | 483476

 

Oh, okay. Then I guess it's better for them all to be added in at the same time. Hopefully I can find the type of betta that I've been looking for near to where I live so I won't have to wait

If it is just going to be a week or so between additions I don't think adding them at different times will be a problem. This is where that tiny pinch of extra food will come in handy. It should keep your bacteria well fed. It is possible your snail will eat it though and that isn't a bad thing. Over feeding in this case could be a good thing. It will eat it and produce ammonia.

This time after the five minute mark, the water turned almost clear. It was a really light blue. But I didn't count it as the actual reading.

Since it had been quite a while since I had done so I went ahead and ran a nitrite test just to refresh my memory. I dropped in 5 drops, capped and shook. I was a good solid blue from start to finish. No sign at all of any purple. At 5 minutes the blue color does seem to be a shade or two lighter than it was just after adding the drops. I started the test about 25 minutes ago. I have been watching the test tube and see that the color is holding at the same color it was at 5 minutes.

I could be wrong but I seem to still be seeing a slightest bit of purple to your last test.

No, it's okay, you didn't ask before. I bought the 10 gallon as a kit. It's the TopFin Essentials one, so I'm using their heater and filter. The filter is the TopFin PF10. The 5 gallon is also from them with a PF10 as well. I'd like to also add a mini sponge filter in it. Before the cycle began I took out the cartridge filter and replaced it with a sponge. I was thinking of using the same sponge material to cover the filter intake so no one's fins would be sucked in.

It is good that you got away from the disposable cartridges right away. Adding the sponge as a pre-filter to the filter is a great idea. It will add an extra place for bacteria to grow. If at all possible you may want to consider getting a different filter for the 10 gallon tank eventually.

Sadly it seems the kit came with the bare minimum for filtration. This size filter may work well for the 5 gallon but I really don't think it is sufficient for the 10 gallon. One can never have too much filtration. Too much water movement but never too much filtration.

I run a penn-plax Cascade 150 on my 5.5 gallon tank. I run 2 cascade 300's plus 2 dual sponge filters on my 55 and a cascade 300 on my 12 gallon storage tote my pleco fry are in. The good thing about these filters is it is easy to control the flow.

The tank has begun making algae. I made a thread about it because I wasn't sure what these orange spots were on the head decoration. Something strange in tank | Freshwater Aquarium Discussion Forum | 483476

I saw and responded to this thread

 

If it is just going to be a week or so between additions I don't think adding them at different times will be a problem. This is where that tiny pinch of extra food will come in handy. It should keep your bacteria well fed. It is possible your snail will eat it though and that isn't a bad thing. Over feeding in this case could be a good thing. It will eat it and produce ammonia.


Since it had been quite a while since I had done so I went ahead and ran a nitrite test just to refresh my memory. I dropped in 5 drops, capped and shook. I was a good solid blue from start to finish. No sign at all of any purple. At 5 minutes the blue color does seem to be a shade or two lighter than it was just after adding the drops. I started the test about 25 minutes ago. I have been watching the test tube and see that the color is holding at the same color it was at 5 minutes.

I could be wrong but I seem to still be seeing a slightest bit of purple to your last test.


It is good that you got away from the disposable cartridges right away. Adding the sponge as a pre-filter to the filter is a great idea. It will add an extra place for bacteria to grow. If at all possible you may want to consider getting a different filter for the 10 gallon tank eventually.

Sadly it seems the kit came with the bare minimum for filtration. This size filter may work well for the 5 gallon but I really don't think it is sufficient for the 10 gallon. One can never have too much filtration. Too much water movement but never too much filtration.

I run a penn-plax Cascade 150 on my 5.5 gallon tank. I run 2 cascade 300's plus 2 dual sponge filters on my 55 and a cascade 300 on my 12 gallon storage tote my pleco fry are in. The good thing about these filters is it is easy to control the flow.


I saw and responded to this thread

Great, I'll remember to add the flakes
Thank you very much for taking the time to use the test kit for this. It's good to see the comparison and see that it's not because I'm doing something wrong.
Oh, that's too bad about the filter I'll keep an eye on it. I'll look into the Cascade filter. I'll probably want more filters anyway since I'd like more tanks.
Thanks for your help on the other thread, and for the filter recommendation

 

Great, I'll remember to add the flakes
Thank you very much for taking the time to use the test kit for this. It's good to see the comparison and see that it's not because I'm doing something wrong.
Oh, that's too bad about the filter I'll keep an eye on it. I'll look into the Cascade filter. I'll probably want more filters anyway since I'd like more tanks.
Thanks for your help on the other thread, and for the filter recommendation

You are very welcome. I wanted to test it out to make sure I was giving the correct advice.

Not many folks here mention using this brand of filters but I've had nothing but good luck with them. I am still using one I bought many many years ago. When I needed to replace a different brand I was running I replaced it with a new cascade 300 and couldn't be happier with the new one.

I needed an over size one for my pleco grow out tank and I wanted to get backup so bought 2 more 300's. Unfortunately they have almost doubled in price since I bought them. I sure am glad I got them when I did. At the time the biggest one they offer was only $25.00. They are now over $50.00 each. Maybe folks weren't buying them because they were so inexpensive. Some folks think they get a better product if it costs more. That wasn't the case with these filters. They are workhorses that just keep on working and they have lots of room for lots of media. I don't use the cartridges made for them.

 

You are very welcome. I wanted to test it out to make sure I was giving the correct advice.

Not many folks here mention using this brand of filters but I've had nothing but good luck with them. I am still using one I bought many many years ago. When I needed to replace a different brand I was running I replaced it with a new cascade 300 and couldn't be happier with the new one.

I needed an over size one for my pleco grow out tank and I wanted to get backup so bought 2 more 300's. Unfortunately they have almost doubled in price since I bought them. I sure am glad I got them when I did. At the time the biggest one they offer was only $25.00. They are now over $50.00 each. Maybe folks weren't buying them because they were so inexpensive. Some folks think they get a better product if it costs more. That wasn't the case with these filters. They are workhorses that just keep on working and they have lots of room for lots of media. I don't use the cartridges made for them.

It's great that you've had such good luck with them, and good thing you got them before the price went up. I don't completely trust all of my equipment right now. I've heard people have had issues with this heater so I've purchased a thermostat. So far the heater has been working very well though. I looked up the cascade filter on Amazon. Is this the one? https://www.amazon.com/Penn-Plax-Su...ascade+filter+10+gallon&qid=1610013538&sr=8-3 I like the idea of a pleco tank. One day when I have a larger aquarium I would like to have some plecos. They're very unique looking.

Test results have changed again. I can no longer tell what nitrite is. After the five minute mark, it was a teal color. I had been getting this color one or two times before but it was a little while after the five minutes. Ammonia is still 0, Nitrate is still 5, and PH is now 7.8.

 

This is the one I am running on my 5.5 gallon tank and recommend for your 10 gallon. It is a HOB (hang on back) filter. It is the 150. I noticed the price on the 300 has come back down some. Instead of $25.00 it is now $35.00. not as good a price as it was just a few months ago but still not a bad price.

You may actually want to consider getting a 300 instead of the 150. More room for media and is a bit more powerful. You don't have to worry about too much water movement with it though because you can control the flow with just a twist of a knob situated right on top of it. By getting the bigger one to start with you will already have what you need should you decide to upgrade your tank sometime in the future.

I don't know if the lid on your tank will accommodate this size filter though. The 300 is 11.25 inches wide and your tank would have to sit away from the wall at least 4 inches. The 150 is 7.25 inches wide and your tank would have to sit away from the wall 3 inches. You would have to have an opening at the back of your hood wide enough to accommodate either of them.

I was looking through the timeline for this tank and realize it has only been cycling since Dec. 18th. The cycle is moving really well and just as it should. Continue adding ammonia each time it goes back down to 0 or close to it but no more than every 24 hours.

The nitrites are looking good. It sounds like you still don't have enough nitrite eating bacteria to got a true 0 reading yet but it will happen. I would like to see the nitrates start going up from the 5ppm we have been seeing. That too will happen. It just takes time.

 

This is the one I am running on my 5.5 gallon tank and recommend for your 10 gallon. It is a HOB (hang on back) filter. It is the 150. I noticed the price on the 300 has come back down some. Instead of $25.00 it is now $35.00. not as good a price as it was just a few months ago but still not a bad price.

You may actually want to consider getting a 300 instead of the 150. More room for media and is a bit more powerful. You don't have to worry about too much water movement with it though because you can control the flow with just a twist of a knob situated right on top of it. By getting the bigger one to start with you will already have what you need should you decide to upgrade your tank sometime in the future.

I don't know if the lid on your tank will accommodate this size filter though. The 300 is 11.25 inches wide and your tank would have to sit away from the wall at least 4 inches. The 150 is 7.25 inches wide and your tank would have to sit away from the wall 3 inches. You would have to have an opening at the back of your hood wide enough to accommodate either of them.

I was looking through the timeline for this tank and realize it has only been cycling since Dec. 18th. The cycle is moving really well and just as it should. Continue adding ammonia each time it goes back down to 0 or close to it but no more than every 24 hours.

The nitrites are looking good. It sounds like you still don't have enough nitrite eating bacteria to got a true 0 reading yet but it will happen. I would like to see the nitrates start going up from the 5ppm we have been seeing. That too will happen. It just takes time.

Thank you for the link, and I'll check out the 300. I may end up switching out the current lid for a glass one eventually. It would probably end up looking nicer since I'm going to have to glue a piece of plastic where the gap is for the HOB. I don't want anyone jumping out. I'd like to get a glass lid that is already cut to accommodate a HOB and feeding door, but I don't know if there is one that will fit this tank.

I've been adding 60 drops ammonia everyday, and it always reads zero now. Nitrite is still starting as purple, but we'll see if it changes anything today. I'm excited to finish!

 

Thank you for the link, and I'll check out the 300. I may end up switching out the current lid for a glass one eventually. It would probably end up looking nicer since I'm going to have to glue a piece of plastic where the gap is for the HOB. I don't want anyone jumping out. I'd like to get a glass lid that is already cut to accommodate a HOB and feeding door, but I don't know if there is one that will fit this tank.

I've been adding 60 drops ammonia everyday, and it always reads zero now. Nitrite is still starting as purple, but we'll see if it changes anything today. I'm excited to finish!

It sounds like you are getting real close. I am anxious to do the happy dance with you the day you see that beautiful sky blue in the nitrite test tube. It is the day to celebrate a job well done.

 

It sounds like you are getting real close. I am anxious to do the happy dance with you the day you see that beautiful sky blue in the nitrite test tube. It is the day to celebrate a job well done.

Me, too The setting up is going to be the best part (besides adding the animals), but I enjoyed this process more than I thought I would. I like updating here and conversating Results today were the same. I wanted to ask, have you uploaded any pictures of your tanks? Do you have an aquarium build or journal on the forum?

 

Me, too The setting up is going to be the best part (besides adding the animals), but I enjoyed this process more than I thought I would. I like updating here and conversating Results today were the same. I wanted to ask, have you uploaded any pictures of your tanks? Do you have an aquarium build or journal on the forum?

There are a couple of photos floating around. One of my shrimp bowl, one of my 5.5 gallon once I finally started having a bit of luck with plants and one of my 55 way back when I still had multi-colored gravel and artificial plants but none recently.

I would probably post more if I didn't find it so difficult to get photos off my phone and on to my computer. All of the photo on here were taken with a camera that finally gave up the ghost. I think I have finally figured out how to do it with this so called smart phone so may end up posting more of them.

I guess I get so much pleasure from helping others with their tanks I fail to talk much about mine other than just using them as an example. Until I can get this black beard algae out of my 55 I won't take any photos of it. I was finally able to order some siamese algae eaters. Sadly 2 of the 4 shipped didn't make it and one other one didn't look really healthy. I went ahead and put the 2 live ones in the tank. I was able to see one yesterday. Hopefully both survived but only time will tell. There are so many places for them to hide in this tank. If they don't I will order more in the spring.

 

There are a couple of photos floating around. One of my shrimp bowl, one of my 5.5 gallon once I finally started having a bit of luck with plants and one of my 55 way back when I still had multi-colored gravel and artificial plants but none recently.

I would probably post more if I didn't find it so difficult to get photos off my phone and on to my computer. All of the photo on here were taken with a camera that finally gave up the ghost. I think I have finally figured out how to do it with this so called smart phone so may end up posting more of them.

I guess I get so much pleasure from helping others with their tanks I fail to talk much about mine other than just using them as an example. Until I can get this black beard algae out of my 55 I won't take any photos of it. I was finally able to order some siamese algae eaters. Sadly 2 of the 4 shipped didn't make it and one other one didn't look really healthy. I went ahead and put the 2 live ones in the tank. I was able to see one yesterday. Hopefully both survived but only time will tell. There are so many places for them to hide in this tank. If they don't I will order more in the spring.

I hope things work out with your phone. I'd really like to see updates on your tanks Are you thinking of getting any more tanks in the future? I'm interested in keeping cherry shrimp, but I'm a little intimidated by the maintenance. I think it would be difficult not to suck anyone up into the syphon. I'm sorry about your algae eaters Hopefully one of the two was just hiding. Do you name your fish?

 

I hope things work out with your phone. I'd really like to see updates on your tanks Are you thinking of getting any more tanks in the future? I'm interested in keeping cherry shrimp, but I'm a little intimidated by the maintenance. I think it would be difficult not to suck anyone up into the syphon. I'm sorry about your algae eaters Hopefully one of the two was just hiding. Do you name your fish?

I am pretty much at my limit as to how many tanks I can physically take care of so probably over time will start taking one or two down. You may not have noticed but I am 72 years old. Mind is still willing but body is rebelling

Right now I have the 55, a 10 gallon grow out that needs a water change at least 3 times a week, the 5.5 gallon my rabbit snails are in, the 2.5 gallon shrimp bowl and a 2.5 gallon jar my ramshorn snails live in. I breed them to feed my assassin snails. Changing out at least half the water on each of them each week is a chore since I still do it the old fashioned way with buckets.

The only fish I name are my plecos. That is Elbert over there in my avatar. Evelyn was my female and I also have Little Red. Evelyn and Little Red are tiny super red plecos. They are full grown at about 3 inches. Their fry are now in the grow out tank. Sadly I lost Evelyn after she and Little Red bred the second time. I will never know why. She seemed healthy when I went to bed but was floating when I woke up. I have learned over the years occasionally losing fish is just a fact of life.

I was very nervous about putting shrimp in my planted bowl. So nervous it took me a year to finally get brave enough to get some. I found I had nothing to worry about after I finally got them. All thrived and before long started producing babies. From all I've read about them they need a well established home and after a year this bowl was well established.

Water changes are tricky. When siphoning the water out we need to put it in a clean white container so we can see if we've siphoned any up. Chances are we will have. I don't gravel vac this bowl so it is easy to watch the end of the siphon tube but even at that I have still siphoned up a few of them. I do swirl the end of the siphon tube around close to the bottom to pull some of the detritus out. This is when babies can be sucked up.

I try to match the parameters in the fresh water to the tank water as close as I can and drip it back in there. I have a control valve on the end of the airline tubing I use to refill the bowl. It can take an hour or more to drip a gallon of water back in there.

Still only seeing one little Siamese Algae Eater. Little guy seems to have settled in and I've seen him eat so have my fingers crossed he will thrive in his new home.

 

Update:
I've received the items I was waiting for in the mail so now I can get started!

I found this video on YouTube that I thought was very helpful:

The only thing I wasn't sure about was the percentage for water change. She instructed for 100% but I thought it was 80%.

So this is what I'm going with:

• Add 1 drop per gallon of Dr. Tim's Ammonium Chloride.
• Check water every two days. Once ammonia and nitrite reach 0.5 or less, add more ammonium chloride until ammonia reaches 4ppm again.
• Test water everyday. Once ammonia and nitrite levels reach 0.25 ppm or less, add ammonia everyday until ammonia and nitrite reach 0 in a 24 hour period.
• Do a 80% (or 100%?) water change.

I've started with adding 10 drops. I'm aiming for 4ppm, and I'll check same time tomorrow to see if I've gotten it there. I haven't added the API Quick Start yet. Should I go ahead and add that today or wait until tomorrow after I've checked the ammonia? Same thing for the fish flakes. Today or tomorrow? I'm going with mattgirl's advice to add the fish flakes every three days.

if you are using bottled ammonia you do not need to use fish foo also

 

if you are using bottled ammonia you do not need to use fish foo also

Have you read my thoughts on something missing when only using liquid ammonia for cycling a tank? It seems a lot of folks actually agree with these thoughts.

 

I am pretty much at my limit as to how many tanks I can physically take care of so probably over time will start taking one or two down. You may not have noticed but I am 72 years old. Mind is still willing but body is rebelling

Right now I have the 55, a 10 gallon grow out that needs a water change at least 3 times a week, the 5.5 gallon my rabbit snails are in, the 2.5 gallon shrimp bowl and a 2.5 gallon jar my ramshorn snails live in. I breed them to feed my assassin snails. Changing out at least half the water on each of them each week is a chore since I still do it the old fashioned way with buckets.

The only fish I name are my plecos. That is Elbert over there in my avatar. Evelyn was my female and I also have Little Red. Evelyn and Little Red are tiny super red plecos. They are full grown at about 3 inches. Their fry are now in the grow out tank. Sadly I lost Evelyn after she and Little Red bred the second time. I will never know why. She seemed healthy when I went to bed but was floating when I woke up. I have learned over the years occasionally losing fish is just a fact of life.

I was very nervous about putting shrimp in my planted bowl. So nervous it took me a year to finally get brave enough to get some. I found I had nothing to worry about after I finally got them. All thrived and before long started producing babies. From all I've read about them they need a well established home and after a year this bowl was well established.

Water changes are tricky. When siphoning the water out we need to put it in a clean white container so we can see if we've siphoned any up. Chances are we will have. I don't gravel vac this bowl so it is easy to watch the end of the siphon tube but even at that I have still siphoned up a few of them. I do swirl the end of the siphon tube around close to the bottom to pull some of the detritus out. This is when babies can be sucked up.

I try to match the parameters in the fresh water to the tank water as close as I can and drip it back in there. I have a control valve on the end of the airline tubing I use to refill the bowl. It can take an hour or more to drip a gallon of water back in there.

Still only seeing one little Siamese Algae Eater. Little guy seems to have settled in and I've seen him eat so have my fingers crossed he will thrive in his new home.

That does sound like a lot of work. If you do end up taking some tanks down, maybe you’ll be able to combine some fish into other tanks if you have the room. Oh, cool! I didn’t know assassin snails ate ramshorns, but I guess that fits their name. It’s odd that a snail would eat another snail.

Aww Elbert is very cute, and I like his name. I’m sorry about Evelyn. Even if it’s natural for a fish to pass away, at least you know that they were provided a happy life in your tank.

I like the tip about using a white bucket. If I ever have shrimp, I’ll probably have to get one since I don’t know if I would be able to see them in my orange bucket, but I suppose that will have to be for a while longer. Good luck with your Siamese algae eater. He sounds like a lovely fish to have in the tank.

 

Hi, mattgirl. I've gotten some different readings.
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: ? (still a teal color)
Nitrate: 5
PH: 6.6
I'm concerned about the PH. It went from 7.8 to 6.6. I've added rocks and one plant to the tank, but I didn't think there would be this dramatic of a change. I'm still adding 60 drops ammonia.

 

How long has it been since you changed some of the water? A simple water change should get the pH back up. If it doesn't or if it continues to drop we may want to look into adding some crushed coral to stabilize it. We want to keep it up to at least 7.

BTW: My little algae eater is always out and about. I see him eating and I've seem him poop so I am holding out high hopes that he will thrive.

 

How long has it been since you changed some of the water? A simple water change should get the pH back up. If it doesn't or if it continues to drop we may want to look into adding some crushed coral to stabilize it. We want to keep it up to at least 7.

BTW: My little algae eater is always out and about. I see him eating and I've seem him poop so I am holding out high hopes that he will thrive.

I haven’t changed any of the water since cycling. How much should I change? Why is it that the PH changed so drastically and so suddenly?

Yay It sounds like he’s going to do just fine! Keep me posted

 

I haven’t changed any of the water since cycling. How much should I change? Why is it that the PH changed so drastically and so suddenly?

Yay It sounds like he’s going to do just fine! Keep me posted

The cycling process tends to use up the minerals in our tap water. Once depleted the pH can drop. I would change out at least half of the water. That should both raise and stabilize the pH. If it doesn't raise it up to the tap water level do it again tomorrow. You shouldn't have to do it again until this cycle is done.

Will do. It took me a while to find him/her this morning but once I did I see s/he still seems to be thriving.

 

The cycling process tends to use up the minerals in our tap water. Once depleted the pH can drop. I would change out at least half of the water. That should both raise and stabilize the pH. If it doesn't raise it up to the tap water level do it again tomorrow. You shouldn't have to do it again until this cycle is done.

Will do. It took me a while to find him/her this morning but once I did I see s/he still seems to be thriving.

I just changed 50% of the water. First time using the syphon! I think the suction is not as high as it could be since I’m changing the water at floor level, but it was good trying it out. I’ll check the water again tonight. Then it should be at 8.2 like I started out with? Happy to hear he’s doing well

 

I just changed 50% of the water. First time using the syphon! I think the suction is not as high as it could be since I’m changing the water at floor level, but it was good trying it out. I’ll check the water again tonight. Then it should be at 8.2 like I started out with? Happy to hear he’s doing well

Floor level is going to make siphoning detritus out. There probably wouldn't be enough suction power to do a good job. You may have to look into some kind of pump. Getting a fairly strong filter will help keep the detritus pulled out though.

50% may not raise the pH up to the level of your source water but it should get it back up above 7 so should keep your cycle from stalling.

 

Floor level is going to make siphoning detritus out. There probably wouldn't be enough suction power to do a good job. You may have to look into some kind of pump. Getting a fairly strong filter will help keep the detritus pulled out though.

50% may not raise the pH up to the level of your source water but it should get it back up above 7 so should keep your cycle from stalling.

The tank will be going onto a stand once the cycling is completed, when I can drain most of the water. It’s just that for now it’s too heavy for me to lift even with 50% drained.

I was worried that the cycle had crashed. I didn’t get to check anything besides nitrite last time, so hopefully this drop in PH didn’t happen until today.

 

The tank will be going onto a stand once the cycling is completed, when I can drain most of the water. It’s just that for now it’s too heavy for me to lift even with 50% drained.

I was worried that the cycle had crashed. I didn’t get to check anything besides nitrite last time, so hopefully this drop in PH didn’t happen until today.

I remember now. You had mentioned that at one point but it slipped my mind.

Thankfully the pH crash wouldn't have hurt your bacteria. It may have slowed down but wouldn't have died. Since your ammonia is still going down we know your cycle is still moving forward. You may want to remember to run the pH test every few days.

 

I remember now. You had mentioned that at one point but it slipped my mind.

Thankfully the pH crash wouldn't have hurt your bacteria. It may have slowed down but wouldn't have died. Since your ammonia is still going down we know your cycle is still moving forward. You may want to remember to run the pH test every few days.

Ammonia had been constant at 0ppm. Now that it’s at 0.25 (or maybe even 0.50), could it be because of the plant I added? Or because of the PH drop? I’m anxious to see tonight if it’s back at 0 and continues to be back on track.

 

Ammonia had been constant at 0ppm. Now that it’s at 0.25 (or maybe even 0.50), could it be because of the plant I added? Or because of the PH drop? I’m anxious to see tonight if it’s back at 0 and continues to be back on track.

I have to think it is because of the pH drop. This is what happens when it drops as low as you were seeing. Getting the pH back up should get things right back on track.

 

I have to think it is because of the pH drop. This is what happens when it drops as low as you were seeing. Getting the pH back up should get things right back on track.

Okay, great. Sorry, I’m a worry wort about these things ops:

 

PH is back to 7.8! Whew... Also, Ammonia is 0 again. Nitrate is still the same at 5ppm. Finally, Nitrite is reading something differently: 0.25-0.5, but that was probably because of the water change. It had been stuck at that teal color for almost a week. Knock on wood it doesn’t come back.

 

PH is back to 7.8! Whew... Also, Ammonia is 0 again. Nitrate is still the same at 5ppm. Finally, Nitrite is reading something differently: 0.25-0.5, but that was probably because of the water change. It had been stuck at that teal color for almost a week. Knock on wood it doesn’t come back.

Fantastic news. The water change could have lowered the nitrites but it is also possible the water change and getting the pH back up where it needed to be got it back to work. I really do think things will start moving forward fast now. You are very close to the end of this cycle.

I am wondering about the constant reading on your nitrates. I would have thought they would be going up more by now. How about you run a dilution test on them. Put 1ml tank water and 4mls tap water in the test tube and run the test on that mixture. If you are still seeing 5ppm we need to look into why.

I do have to ask if you are sure you are shaking bottle number 2 really well. Are you banging it against the palm of your hand or a hard surface to make sure the sediment in the bottom is broken loose and mixed really really well. It is the only bottle in the test kit that we have to do this with but it is very important. Once drops from both bottles are added are you shaking the test tube for a full minute?

 

Fantastic news. The water change could have lowered the nitrites but it is also possible the water change and getting the pH back up where it needed to be got it back to work. I really do think things will start moving forward fast now. You are very close to the end of this cycle.

I am wondering about the constant reading on your nitrates. I would have thought they would be going up more by now. How about you run a dilution test on them. Put 1ml tank water and 4mls tap water in the test tube and run the test on that mixture. If you are still seeing 5ppm we need to look into why.

I do have to ask if you are sure you are shaking bottle number 2 really well. Are you banging it against the palm of your hand or a hard surface to make sure the sediment in the bottom is broken loose and mixed really really well. It is the only bottle in the test kit that we have to do this with but it is very important. Once drops from both bottles are added are you shaking the test tube for a full minute?

Nitrite is really stubborn. Wonder why ammonia decreases so much faster after all this time. I'll run the test for nitrate. Should I dechlorinate the tap water? I'm shaking bottle 2 in the air, but I'll try hitting it against my hand. What I do is add the drops from bottle 1, invert the tube about 8-10 times (I do this for the others that require inverting). Then I shake bottle 2 in the air for 30 seconds, add the drops to the tube, and shake the tube in the air for 1 minute. I let sit for 5 minutes.

 

It just means you have grown enough ammonia eating bacteria. For some reason it seems to take longer to grow enough nitrite eating bacteria to clear all of it out. It will happen though. the low pH slowed it a bit but now that it is back up we are back on track.

When I do the dilution test I just take water straight from the tap. Maybe try it both ways. One with water conditioner added and one without. The reason for the dilution test is to assure your nitrates aren't so high they have defaulted back down to 5ppm. It doesn't happen often but it has been known to happen. If the dilution test shows a higher number you will know your nitrates are much higher in the tank that we think they are.

It sounds like you are doing the nitrate test as it should be done. If I've not run the test for a while I give bottle #2 extra attention to make sure the sediment is broken loose and mixed really well. I actually wish this was a clear bottle so we could see the sediment and could tell for sure when it is mixed well enough.

 

It just means you have grown enough ammonia eating bacteria. For some reason it seems to take longer to grow enough nitrite eating bacteria to clear all of it out. It will happen though. the low pH slowed it a bit but now that it is back up we are back on track.

When I do the dilution test I just take water straight from the tap. Maybe try it both ways. One with water conditioner added and one without. The reason for the dilution test is to assure your nitrates aren't so high they have defaulted back down to 5ppm. It doesn't happen often but it has been known to happen. If the dilution test shows a higher number you will know your nitrates are much higher in the tank that we think they are.

It sounds like you are doing the nitrate test as it should be done. If I've not run the test for a while I give bottle #2 extra attention to make sure the sediment is broken loose and mixed really well. I actually wish this was a clear bottle so we could see the sediment and could tell for sure when it is mixed well enough.

Okay, I’ll try it the two different ways. It wouldn’t be too good for the number to be higher since that would probably complicate things when I’m trying to decide when to do water changes later on. I agree, a clear bottle would be more helpful.

I received a piece of cholla wood in the mail today. Because of what happened with the PH, I’m not going to add it to the tank right away. Do you think it would lower the PH by too much? I’m soaking it right now.

 

Okay, I’ll try it the two different ways. It wouldn’t be too good for the number to be higher since that would probably complicate things when I’m trying to decide when to do water changes later on. I agree, a clear bottle would be more helpful.

I received a piece of cholla wood in the mail today. Because of what happened with the PH, I’m not going to add it to the tank right away. Do you think it would lower the PH by too much? I’m soaking it right now.

It won't be a problem if the nitrates are higher. In fact I would like to see them going up instead of holding steady at 5. I don't actually go by the nitrate numbers in my tanks. I just go ahead and change out half the water each week.

Adding the cholla wood shouldn't be a problem. I know some folks say drift wood lowers the pH but if it actually did folks that have a really high pH would be thrilled if it actually did.

 

It won't be a problem if the nitrates are higher. In fact I would like to see them going up instead of holding steady at 5. I don't actually go by the nitrate numbers in my tanks. I just go ahead and change out half the water each week.

Adding the cholla wood shouldn't be a problem. I know some folks say drift wood lowers the pH but if it actually did folks that have a really high pH would be thrilled if it actually did.

Oh I meant about the numbers from the dilution test, because if they were higher than the number I’m getting from my tank right now, then it wouldn’t be clear to me what the actual number is. That’s a good point. Maybe I’ll add in the cholla wood tomorrow, depending on if it discolored the water.

 

Today's results:
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: ?
Nitrate: 5
PH: 7.2-7.6
The photo showing nitrate is the results from the dilution test. It is not 5ppm, but somewhere between 5 and 10ppm. For now I've used water straight from the tap, but when I get to treat another gallon of water with dechlorinator, I'll test that way as well.

 

I am sorry I confused you. Every now and then someone will come here for help. They were seeing high nitrates and then all of a sudden they dropped down to 5ppm. When they do the dilution test they find that the nitrates are still there because the number goes back up. They are just so high they defaulted the test back down to 5.

It is strange that you are seeing basically the same amount of nitrates in both normal test and dilution test. I am not sure what that means but it doesn't seem right. I am beginning to suspect your test isn't telling you the truth. Your nitrates really should be gradually going up by now.