Fishless cycling. Am i doing it right help please

Rsha94

Hi, so i am currently on day 17 of doing a fishless cycle.
my recent test results were
0 ammonia, 5ppm nitrites, 5ppm nitrates

i am on the nitrite spike stage and was wondering if i am doing this right.

my questions are
1. Do i need to dose ammonia?
2. If so, how often? ( i have been adding in ammonia every 24hrs for the last 2 days when j have tested 0 ammonia)
3. What am i waiting on next?
4. Am i doing this correctly? I really dont want to start over


thank you.
Also just to add my tap water has nitrates which is why i have 5ppm of them
 

jdhef

If after 24 hours your ammonia is reading 0ppm, you want to add ammonia again. Thew ammonia is the food for the ammonia converting bacteria and you want to keep that bacteria fed, else it will startve off.

It looks like you are getting close to finishing the cycle (maybe 2 more weeks), you just need that nitrite converting bacteria colony to grow
 

Rsha94

If after 24 hours your ammonia is reading 0ppm, you want to add ammonia again. Thew ammonia is the food for the ammonia converting bacteria and you want to keep that bacteria fed, else it will startve off.

It looks like you are getting close to finishing the cycle (maybe 2 more weeks), you just need that nitrite converting bacteria colony to grow
thanks for that. I test it around the same time everyday, so about 24 hours. Am i ok with dosing the ammonia once every 24 hours?
 

jdhef

So long as it is 0ppm or close to it...yes.
 

Rsha94

So for example, i dosed it last night to 2ppm ammonia. And today when i tested ammonia was back down to 0, so i have dosed it again to 2ppm. Do i keep doing this until i add fish at the end of the cycle?
 

StarGirl

So for example, i dosed it last night to 2ppm ammonia. And today when i tested ammonia was back down to 0, so i have dosed it again to 2ppm. Do i keep doing this until i add fish at the end of the cycle?
Keep doing it until the Nitrites are 0 and you are reading nitrates. ;)
 

Azedenkae

Hi, so i am currently on day 17 of doing a fishless cycle.
my recent test results were
0 ammonia, 5ppm nitrites, 5ppm nitrates

i am on the nitrite spike stage and was wondering if i am doing this right.

my questions are
1. Do i need to dose ammonia?
2. If so, how often? ( i have been adding in ammonia every 24hrs for the last 2 days when j have tested 0 ammonia)
3. What am i waiting on next?
4. Am i doing this correctly? I really dont want to start over


thank you.
Also just to add my tap water has nitrates which is why i have 5ppm of them
I would suggest you only dose ammonia when both ammonia and nitrite hit zero. Else you may just end up with an elevated nitrite reading prolonged far beyond necessary.
 

mattgirl

Hi, so i am currently on day 17 of doing a fishless cycle.
my recent test results were
0 ammonia, 5ppm nitrites, 5ppm nitrates

i am on the nitrite spike stage and was wondering if i am doing this right.
Yes, you are on the right track but let's find out how high the nitrites actually are. You can do that by running a dilution test. Put 1ml tank water and 4mls fresh water in the test tube. Run the test on that mixture. If you are still seeing 5ppm then we know your nitrites are very high. At this point it may be time to do a water change to get them down.
my questions are
1. Do i need to dose ammonia?
2. If so, how often? ( i have been adding in ammonia every 24hrs for the last 2 days when j have tested 0 ammonia)
3. What am i waiting on next?
4. Am i doing this correctly? I really dont want to start over


thank you.
Also just to add my tap water has nitrates which is why i have 5ppm of them
1) yes, each time it goes back down to or close to zero

2) continue adding it until the cycle is complete.

3) you are waiting for the nitrite to drop to zero and for the nitrates to gradually go up. If the nitrites don't appear to be going down within a week I will recommend you change out half the water in the tank. This will lower the nitrites, nitrates and will replenish the minerals and should speed things up.

4) yes, so far you are doing this correctly. It takes time to cycle a tank so just give it food (ammonia) and time.

NOTE: One other thing I am going to suggest you do. Along with the ammonia I recommend you start adding a tiny pinch of fish food to this tank three days in a row and after that every third day until the cycle is complete. Fish flakes finely crushed will work best.

Take a minute or two to read at least the first post in this thread. PSA: Something I am seeing more and more often, fishless cycling.... | Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle Forum | 477380 It explains why I am recommending you do this. You may want to read the whole thread though. Others explained better than I did exactly why adding the fish food helps.

PS: Doing a water changes is not going to slow down or damage the bacteria you have grown up to this point as long as you add your water conditioner to the fresh water before pouring it in the tank. I also recommend you get the fresh water close to the same temp as he water you took out. We can't see it but I consider bacteria a living thing so recommend handling it with care.
 

Rsha94

Yes, you are on the right track but let's find out how high the nitrites actually are. You can do that by running a dilution test. Put 1ml tank water and 4mls fresh water in the test tube. Run the test on that mixture. If you are still seeing 5ppm then we know your nitrites are very high. At this point it may be time to do a water change to get them down.

1) yes, each time it goes back down to or close to zero

2) continue adding it until the cycle is complete.

3) you are waiting for the nitrite to drop to zero and for the nitrates to gradually go up. If the nitrites don't appear to be going down within a week I will recommend you change out half the water in the tank. This will lower the nitrites, nitrates and will replenish the minerals and should speed things up.

4) yes, so far you are doing this correctly. It takes time to cycle a tank so just give it food (ammonia) and time.

NOTE: One other thing I am going to suggest you do. Along with the ammonia I recommend you start adding a tiny pinch of fish food to this tank three days in a row and after that every third day until the cycle is complete. Fish flakes finely crushed will work best.

Take a minute or two to read at least the first post in this thread. PSA: Something I am seeing more and more often, fishless cycling.... | Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle Forum | 477380 It explains why I am recommending you do this. You may want to read the whole thread though. Others explained better than I did exactly why adding the fish food helps.

PS: Doing a water changes is not going to slow down or damage the bacteria you have grown up to this point as long as you add your water conditioner to the fresh water before pouring it in the tank. I also recommend you get the fresh water close to the same temp as he water you took out. We can't see it but I consider bacteria a living thing so recommend handling it with care.
Hi, sorry for bringing this thread back up again but i fogured it would be easier than to start a new one up.

so i have run into some problems it seems.

my nitrites are still increasing i can tell by how quickly the water changes from clear to bright purple when adding the test liquid.

my ammonia however has come back and is no longer dropping to 0ppm every 24 hours like it has been. It has been showing as 1 ppm yesterday and today.
Am i going wrong somewhere?

i also tested my nitrates and they are either 10 or 20ppm its hard to tell they are a browny orange shade.

Left to right
Nitrites, ammonia, nitrates
Also i have done the diluted nitrite test and the test has come back 5 ppm which means i have a very high amount of nitrites. How do i fix this please?
I would suggest you only dose ammonia when both ammonia and nitrite hit zero. Else you may just end up with an elevated nitrite reading prolonged far beyond necessary.
Please read above replies looks like this has happened how do i fix this please?
 

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HKsai

Hi, sorry for bringing this thread back up again but i fogured it would be easier than to start a new one up.

so i have run into some problems it seems.

my nitrites are still increasing i can tell by how quickly the water changes from clear to bright purple when adding the test liquid.

my ammonia however has come back and is no longer dropping to 0ppm every 24 hours like it has been. It has been showing as 1 ppm yesterday and today.
Am i going wrong somewhere?

i also tested my nitrates and they are either 10 or 20ppm its hard to tell they are a browny orange shade.

Left to right
Nitrites, ammonia, nitrates
Also i have done the diluted nitrite test and the test has come back 5 ppm which means i have a very high amount of nitrites. How do i fix this please?

Please read above replies looks like this has happened how do i fix this please?
I had similar experience. From my personal experience, your water should NEVER turn purple right when you drop the nitrite fluid into it. Your nitrate water should also NEVER turn orange with just the first bottle of nitrate fluid. If that happens, it means your nitrite and/or nitrate are both sky high and unreadable. I would recommend 100% water change. It sounds like your cycle is stalled. (Like mine a few days ago).
 

Rsha94

I had similar experience. From my personal experience, your water should NEVER turn into purple right when you drop the nitrite fluid into it. Your nitrate water should also NEVER turn into orange with just the first bottle of nitrate fluid. If that happens, it means your nitrite and/or nitrate are both sky high and unreadable. I would recommend 100% water change. It sounds like your cycle is stalled. (Like mine a few days ago).
Yes this is exactly what has happened i did a 50-60% water change right away but readings seem more or less the same. If i change 100% of the water will this mean I have to start over? Also how did you fix this problem when you had it?
 

HKsai

Yes this is exactly what has happened i did a 50-60% water change right away but readings seem more or less the same. If i change 100% of the water will this mean I have to start over? Also how did you fix this problem when you had it?
I would follow what the experts here have recommended. 100% water change did help me finish the cycle. Water change should not kill your bacteria/restart your cycle as long as you use similar temperature water and water conditioner.
 

Azedenkae

my ammonia however has come back and is no longer dropping to 0ppm every 24 hours like it has been. It has been showing as 1 ppm yesterday and today.
Have you been dosing ammonia every single day? I know you asked if you should or should not, but I can't seem to see if you said you are or are not.
 

Rsha94

Have you been dosing ammonia every single day? I know you asked if you should or should not, but I can't seem to see if you said you are or are not.
Yes i did for a few days as ammonia was hitting 0. that is probably what led to the massive amounts of nitrites
Yes i did for a few days as ammonia was hitting 0. that is probably what led to the massive amounts of nitrites
I was under the impression that the ammonia consuming bacteria would die off if i didn't feed it
 

Azedenkae

Yes i did for a few days as ammonia was hitting 0. that is probably what led to the massive amounts of nitrites

I was under the impression that the ammonia consuming bacteria would die off if i didn't feed it
Yes, that is probably what caused the huge amounts of nitrite.

So, no, the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria does not starve if you do not constantly feed them. Lot's of scientific research on this. Here's one review discussing this: Strategies of aerobic ammonia-oxidizing bacteria for coping with nutrient and oxygen fluctuations.

Nitrifying bacteria can go for extended periods ammonia-starved. At least weeks, but definitely could be months. And even then, they often rebound relatively quickly, rather than dying off completely.

A few days of ammonia starvation is nothing.

In contrast, nitrite being too high can stall the cycle, actually inhibiting nitrification.

That is why I always recommend waiting until ammonia and nitrite to hit zero before dosing ammonia again. We avoid this kind of situations.

I'd recommend doing a 100% water change, check that your parameters are close to zero after that, then dosing 2ppm ammonia again. This time, waiting until both ammonia and nitrite hits zero before dosing again. If both ammonia and nitrite reads zero 24 hours after dosing, your tank is cycled.
 

Rsha94

Yes, that is probably what caused the huge amounts of nitrite.

So, no, the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria does not starve if you do not constantly feed them. Lot's of scientific research on this. Here's one review discussing this: Strategies of aerobic ammonia-oxidizing bacteria for coping with nutrient and oxygen fluctuations.

Nitrifying bacteria can go for extended periods ammonia-starved. At least weeks, but definitely could be months. And even then, they often rebound relatively quickly, rather than dying off completely.

A few days of ammonia starvation is nothing.

In contrast, nitrite being too high can stall the cycle, actually inhibiting nitrification.

That is why I always recommend waiting until ammonia and nitrite to hit zero before dosing ammonia again. We avoid this kind of situations.

I'd recommend doing a 100% water change, check that your parameters are close to zero after that, then dosing 2ppm ammonia again. This time, waiting until both ammonia and nitrite hits zero before dosing again. If both ammonia and nitrite reads zero 24 hours after dosing, your tank is cycled.
Thank you for the advise i wish i had known this sooner i probably would have been done by now. I will definitely do the water change and go from there.
Also one more question i have nitrates present too im assuming they are very high levels what should i do about these? Surely if nitrates are present my tank is cycled?
Is it that there is too much ammonia and nitrites present for the cycle to catch up? Can you please explain this? Thank you
 

Azedenkae

Thank you for the advise i wish i had known this sooner i probably would have been done by now. I will definitely do the water change and go from there.
Also one more question i have nitrates present too im assuming they are very high levels what should i do about these? Surely if nitrates are present my tank is cycled?
Is it that there is too much ammonia and nitrites present for the cycle to catch up? Can you please explain this? Thank you
Sure, the presence of nitrate only indicates that there is nitrite oxidation, nothing more, nothing less.

So seeing nitrates does not necessarily mean a tank is cycled. A tank is only cycled (in my book), if 2ppm ammonia can be completely converted to nitrate within 24 hours. I.e. dosing 2ppm ammonia, and reading 0 ammonia and nitrite within 24 hours.

With nitrate, the water change should take care of that as well, to get it down to zero, or at least reasonable levels.

On that note, also yes. If you have a very high amount of nitrite, it may be that your nitrite oxidation is already at the capacity you need it to be, but it's still taking time to reduce it.

For example, 2ppm ammonia produces 5.4ppm nitrite. If your nitrite-oxidizers can handle 5.4ppm nitrite a day, that's great, but also, that's just literally the exact amount of nitrite being produced, so there will be no change in actual nitrite levels. If your nitrifiers continue to reproduce and handle 6ppm nitrite a day, then they can handle an extra 0.6ppm nitrite. If your nitrite reading is actually 20ppm, it'll take another 33 days or so to completely consume all that nitrite. Of course, chances are your nitrite-oxidizers will continue to multiply in that time if they have space to grow into, so the nitrite oxidation capacity will keep on expanding too and it won't take 33 days. It'll still take more time than needed though.

On the bright side though, you would end up with a very robust colony of nitrite oxidizers, that can handle a lot more nitrite. At the same time, that is already kinda the purpose of dosing 2ppm ammonia in the first place. For a lot of tanks, ammonia produced a day is more in the vicinity of 1-1.5ppm. 2ppm is already extra capacity.
 

Rsha94

Sure, the presence of nitrate only indicates that there is nitrite oxidation, nothing more, nothing less.

So seeing nitrates does not necessarily mean a tank is cycled. A tank is only cycled (in my book), if 2ppm ammonia can be completely converted to nitrate within 24 hours. I.e. dosing 2ppm ammonia, and reading 0 ammonia and nitrite within 24 hours.

With nitrate, the water change should take care of that as well, to get it down to zero, or at least reasonable levels.

On that note, also yes. If you have a very high amount of nitrite, it may be that your nitrite oxidation is already at the capacity you need it to be, but it's still taking time to reduce it.

For example, 2ppm ammonia produces 5.4ppm nitrite. If your nitrite-oxidizers can handle 5.4ppm nitrite a day, that's great, but also, that's just literally the exact amount of nitrite being produced, so there will be no change in actual nitrite levels. If your nitrifiers continue to reproduce and handle 6ppm nitrite a day, then they can handle an extra 0.6ppm nitrite. If your nitrite reading is actually 20ppm, it'll take another 33 days or so to completely consume all that nitrite. Of course, chances are your nitrite-oxidizers will continue to multiply in that time if they have space to grow into, so the nitrite oxidation capacity will keep on expanding too and it won't take 33 days. It'll still take more time than needed though.

On the bright side though, you would end up with a very robust colony of nitrite oxidizers, that can handle a lot more nitrite. At the same time, that is already kinda the purpose of dosing 2ppm ammonia in the first place. For a lot of tanks, ammonia produced a day is more in the vicinity of 1-1.5ppm. 2ppm is already extra capacity.
That makes sense thank you for explaining, for now i will do the water change i did a 50-60% last night. So i will see what i can do today and go from there. I will update if im still having problems but im hoping it goes smoothly from here.
 

Azedenkae

That makes sense thank you for explaining, for now i will do the water change i did a 50-60% last night. So i will see what i can do today and go from there. I will update if im still having problems but im hoping it goes smoothly from here.
Mhm. A big water change is definitely pretty annoying. If you can't do a 100% water change, a big one might help too. HKsai had to do two massive water changes to get their readings in order.

Otherwise, you can also just let it be and hope that nitrite is not so high that nitrification is completely inhibited. I am slightly concerned because your ammonia oxidation seems to have slowed down significantly, but if it's still moving, it should still be possible for all the ammonia and nitrite in your tank to be naturally consumed.
 

Rsha94

Mhm. A big water change is definitely pretty annoying. If you can't do a 100% water change, a big one might help too. HKsai had to do two massive water changes to get their readings in order.

Otherwise, you can also just let it be and hope that nitrite is not so high that nitrification is completely inhibited. I am slightly concerned because your ammonia oxidation seems to have slowed down significantly, but if it's still moving, it should still be possible for all the ammonia and nitrite in your tank to be naturally consumed.
I will definitely try a large water change to start if it doesn't go well might have to just start over and do a fish in cycle.
 

HKsai

That makes sense thank you for explaining, for now i will do the water change i did a 50-60% last night. So i will see what i can do today and go from there. I will update if im still having problems but im hoping it goes smoothly from here.
Honestly I would not be too worry and that’s after my own personal experience. My cycle literally kept going and finished in a day or so after I did the water change. I would recommend just changing all the water out and redose 2ppm ammonia. At first I was lazy and didn’t really wanna completely drained the tank because it was hard with the siphons. I did maybe 85-90ish but the nitrite still read like 2-4ppm? So I had to do another water change, which then I did a 100%, and got nitrite back to 0ppm. I never had an ammonia stall though which led to my problems. My 2ppm of ammonia kept going down every single day so I waited so long to do the water change.
 

Rsha94

Honestly I would not be too worry and that’s after my own personal experience. My cycle literally kept going and finished in a day or so after I did the water change. I would recommend just changing all the water out and redose 2ppm ammonia. At first I was lazy and didn’t really wanna completely drained the tank because it was hard with the siphons. I did maybe 85-90ish but the nitrite still read like 2-4ppm? So I had to do another water change, which then I did a 100%, and got nitrite back to 0ppm. I never had an ammonia stall though which led to my problems. My 2ppm of ammonia kept going down every single day so I waited so long to do the water change.
I ended up doing like a 90% change which was as much as i got without taking all the plants and decor out. My levels have drastically reduced, my nitrites are about 1ppm i think. its really hard to read against the chart and nitrates about 10-20 again very hard to tell. But the colour of the test gradually changed rather than as soon as it touched the test tube.
I haven’t dosed any ammonia tonight. Will this be okay? i am doing to see if the nitrite will be converted in the next 24 hours and go from there.
If it does i will dose the ammonia tomorrow and then the nitrates can always be removed with another water change.
Also, is there any easy way to remove/ add water without using buckets. I have a siphon but it just takes so long. It is useful for cleaning the substrate though.
 

Rsha94

Hi guys just an update from today. My ammonia is 0 and nitrite is 0.50ppm (down from 2ppm) in 24 hours.
im confused what to do now. Do i dose ammonia again or wait until nitrite is 0
 

HKsai

Hi guys just an update from today. My ammonia is 0 and nitrite is 0.50ppm (down from 2ppm) in 24 hours.
im confused what to do now. Do i dose ammonia again or wait until nitrite is 0
I will wait. I think you are close. It will most likely drop overnight then you can dose tomorrow.
 

Azedenkae

Hi guys just an update from today. My ammonia is 0 and nitrite is 0.50ppm (down from 2ppm) in 24 hours.
im confused what to do now. Do i dose ammonia again or wait until nitrite is 0
As per HKsai, I'd recommend only dosing ammonia again when your nitrite hits zero. And yeah, keep on dosing that way until both ammonia and nitrite reads zero after 24 hours.

As you can tell from experience, dosing ammonia everyday can be a bad idea. And big water changes are certainly no fun.
 

Rsha94

Thank you for your help guys. I will leave it for today and check again tomorrow.
 

Rsha94

Hi guys, another update and it’s not looking too good. My nitrite is still exactly the same as it was 24 hours ago. It has measured 0.50ppm again today. I’m so confused on what is going on, it dropped from 1 or 2ppm to 0.5 yesterday but seems stuck now.
Any advise on what i should do?
 

HKsai

Hi guys, another update and it’s not looking too good. My nitrite is still exactly the same as it was 24 hours ago. It has measured 0.50ppm again today. I’m so confused on what is going on, it dropped from 1 or 2ppm to 0.5 yesterday but seems stuck now.
Any advise on what i should do?
Sorry to ask again specifically....the purple color comes after you shake the tube right? It just sounds like you are experiencing exactly what I experienced. It might seem like 0.5 but mighta actually be super high. You did the water change right?
 

Rsha94

Sorry to ask again specifically....the purple color comes after you shake the tube right? It just sounds like you are experiencing exactly what I experienced. It might seem like 0.5 but mighta actually be super high. You did the water change right?
Yes, turns from blue to a light purple very gradually. Yes i did a 60% and a 90% over 2 days.
 

HKsai

Yes, turns from blue to a light purple very gradually. Yes i did a 60% and a 90% over 2 days.
I would wait a day or so...personally and not dose ammonia until nitrite goes down. I will let the experts chime in though.
 

Rsha94

So, i just did a diluted test of half tank water and half tap water. The results are very close to 0ppm its still blue but not tht bright blue you get with 0. If that makes any sense.
 

Azedenkae

So, i just did a diluted test of half tank water and half tap water. The results are very close to 0ppm its still blue but not tht bright blue you get with 0. If that makes any sense.
Yes it does. That is concerning. I'd give it another day, then if nothing changes would dose 2ppm ammonia and see what happens.
 

Rsha94

Yes it does. That is concerning. I'd give it another day, then if nothing changes would dose 2ppm ammonia and see what happens.
Ok, I’ll try that. Thank you.
 

Azedenkae

Ok, I’ll try that. Thank you.
Mm. To clarify, it may not be anything surprising. Don't forget, API readings don't have super small resolutions.

So at a nitrite oxidation rate of 0.33ppm a day, we might be seeing 1 --> 0.66 --> 0.33ppm. The first reads as 1, while the next two may read as 0.5ppm. For example.
 

Rsha94

Mm. To clarify, it may not be anything surprising. Don't forget, API readings don't have super small resolutions.

So at a nitrite oxidation rate of 0.33ppm a day, we might be seeing 1 --> 0.66 --> 0.33ppm. The first reads as 1, while the next two may read as 0.5ppm. For example.
Yes, that’s true. I will check again tomorrow, hopefully better news.
 

Rsha94

So, nitrite is still present which is concerning now. It is measuring at 0.25 ppm so it has decreased. I have gone ahead and dosed ammonia today, just to see what happens in the next few days.
 

Azedenkae

So, nitrite is still present which is concerning now. It is measuring at 0.25 ppm so it has decreased. I have gone ahead and dosed ammonia today, just to see what happens in the next few days.
So it seems like it is just a case of the nitrite oxidizers still being established and thus are just growing super slowly. That's alright, just means they need more time. Let us know how things go tomorrow.
 

Rsha94

So it seems like it is just a case of the nitrite oxidizers still being established and thus are just growing super slowly. That's alright, just means they need more time. Let us know how things go tomorrow.
Hi, i dosed 2ppm of ammonia last night, now 24 hours later i have the following results. Ammonia 0 and nitrite 2ppm.
 

Azedenkae

Hi, i dosed 2ppm of ammonia last night, now 24 hours later i have the following results. Ammonia 0 and nitrite 2ppm.
Sounds like yeah, your ammonia oxidizers are well-established, but your nitrite oxidizers are just slow in being established. I also reckon your nitrite is probably 5ppm rather than 2ppm, just head to read.

Just gotta keep cycling then. I'd suggest only dosing ammonia when both ammonia and nitrite drops to zero. Otherwise you'd risk another nitrite spike. And as you can see, a few days without dosing ammonia makes no difference to the ammonia-oxidizers, they still readily process 2ppm ammonia when dosed again.
 

Rsha94

Sounds like yeah, your ammonia oxidizers are well-established, but your nitrite oxidizers are just slow in being established. I also reckon your nitrite is probably 5ppm rather than 2ppm, just head to read.

Just gotta keep cycling then. I'd suggest only dosing ammonia when both ammonia and nitrite drops to zero. Otherwise you'd risk another nitrite spike. And as you can see, a few days without dosing ammonia makes no difference to the ammonia-oxidizers, they still readily process 2ppm ammonia when dosed again.
Just an update from tonight, my nitrite is either 1 or 2ppm hard to differentiate between the colours.
also, I don’t know what kind of an impact this has on cycling a tank, but my pH is dropping. The water from my tap is 7.2 and when i measured a few days ago, my tank was reading 7. However, when i tested today it was 6.8.
Also, before i did the huge water change it had gotten as low as 6.6. I did the water change and hve been watching it to see if it drops again, which it has.
Does anyone know if/how the pH affects the cycle process?
 

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