Fishless cycle, only the tank isn't cycling. What am I doing wrong?

SlI'm yet possible. Only true way to tell is take all the decorations out and if the ammonia drops below the 2, and not rise, then it is them. Odds are are very slim. Up to Henna if she wants to try it to rule it out.

 

I dunno, these are all aquarium-specific decorations, all washed before use. If I can't get the ammonia under control by the weekend, I'll consider it, but it's all supposed to be safe.

 

Sorry the only reason I raised it was that I recently read in another forum or thread that someone was having trouble with their cycle and when someone suggested their substrate they pulled out some of the coloured stones and found the blue stones to have cracked paint and they were deemed to be an issue. I appreciate you are getting lots of advice but if you see no progress you will need to eliminate certain things and removing decorations is fairly simple. You could also take some stones out and place in known parameter water and see if it changes with the stones in.

Good luck I really hope it works out for you, I will soon be cycling a new 200 gallon tank but have a cycled tank to take some media from and RO water too.

 

You do have a sound argument, but normally when it comes to painted gravel and decorations, they present different problems. Normally those show an established tank, but unexplained fish death due to changes in gh and tds to toxic leeching when the paint comes off. Most of the time when that happens it shows up during introduction of new fish. The way the aquarium stuff is made, they are made with neutral products that should not effect peramaters of a tank.

Like I said, a sound reasoning, but it's different symptoms.

 

This morning:
Ammonia 2 ppm
Nitrites 0ppm
Nitrates 5ppm
Tank temp is holding at 80F

So there's some improvement from yesterday. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping it keeps improving. Sister will be here in just under two weeks and wants to take Little Miss fish shopping, but if I can't get the ammonia under control that can't happen.

 

Paul, I did say that if I didn't see improvement I would consider the decorations as a possible cause. I would simply like to rule out other, more likely, causes first.

 

Ok, I admit I'm dieing to know if it has stayed at 2 ppm. Please let us know.

 

I wasn't planning to test again till tomorrow morning, but the ammonia is dropping! As of now, it's between 1 and 2 ppm. Darker than 1, lighter than 2.

 

Woohoo! All right! Congratulations!

 

Crossing fingers seems to have worked. With any luck, it keeps moving that direction!

 

This morning:
Ammonia 1-2ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5ppm
Tank tamp 80F

 

Do you have anything in there removing nitrates? They seem to never go above 5. Are you shaking the nitrate 2 bottle well for the 30 seconds then the tube for the minute? I've heard some say if you don't follow the directions exactly the nitrate test may not come out right.

 

I'm shaking the bottle for 30 seconds and the tube for 60 and letting it sit for 5 minutes before checking, just like the directions say. Unless Prime removes nitrates too, then no, nothing has been added that would remove nitrates.

Nitrite has never once been anything but 0. Nitrate was at 0 until three days ago. I assumed that was a slow build.

 

We've been pretty busy today with storm prep - Tropical Storm Hermine is set to make landfall north of us tonight, but we're getting a lot of rain from it. I forgot to test the tank this morning, but this afternoon:

Ammonia 1ppm
Nitrites 0ppm
Nitrates have *dropped* to 0ppm - I tested twice, just to make sure, and both came out 0. I haven't added or removed anything, so I don't know what that's about.
Tank temp 79F

I coudln't find any Stability in stores here but Petsmart had some TSS, so I picked up a bottle. Should I put it in today?

 

I think that with TSS you have to ensure that there is a period of time from when you last added ammonia or any other ammonia binding compounds before you use it. It is also supposed to be used in conjunction with a hardy fish or two. There is a video from tetra explaining how to use it on YouTube. Don't get confused over the two uses. One is for new tanks and the other way is to supplement any lost bacteria from a mature tank after maintenance or filter cleaning.

Sorry I could not post a link to the video.

Good luck with the storm.

 

I haven't added any ammonia at all, nor any ammonia binding compounds recently; not since the last time I topped off the tank, about a week ago? I'll track down the Youtube video. Thanks for the tip!

 

Yes, you can put it in today. You can use it both in fishless and fish-in cycling. Just pour in the whole bottle as long as it's been at least 24 hours since you added a dechlorinator, which you mentioned had been a week.

 

Uncle happened to ask me how the tank was doing today. When I told him about the ammonia dropping slowly and the nitrates spiking and falling again, he recommended buying a GH and KH testing kit and adding a teaspoon of baking soda to the tank to help... something, I forget what. (I'd have remembered if I'd posted as soon as he said it, but that was five hours, two meals, three temper tantrums, and two inches of rain ago. We might be having a bit of an Evening over here.)

At any rate, I've ordered the additional tests, plus an extra box of test tubes because I broke one the other day. I bought them from Amazon because I've never seen those kits in local stores. They're expected to arrive Saturday, but with the storm this weekend and Monday being Labor Day, I don't expect them to arrive till at least Tuesday. I'll put the TSS in the tank in the morning after I test the water again.

 

His advice is good if your KH is low. Your ph would start falling however if it was. Is it staying steady?

 

His advice is good if your KH is low. Your ph would start falling however if it was. Is it staying steady?

What is the dosing rate for adding baking soda? I need to raise mine maybe 1-2 dKH. I've been using aragonite and cuttle bone but can't get it to go above 4.

 

It's been consistently 7.6. He mentioned that his tap water's KH is low and that mine might be, but because he's on city water and I'm on county water, I should check when the test kit arrives. His water is processed through different plants and held ad a different reservoir from mine, so there may be some differences in the levels of the chemicals I'm testing for.

 

What is the dosing rate for adding baking soda? I need to raise mine maybe 1-2 dKH. I've been using aragonite and cuttle bone but can't get it to go above 4.

Uncle said 1 teaspoon for the 20 gallon, but I don't know if it's a matter of scaling up/down or if there's some calculations involved for larger or smaller tanks.

 

Baking soda is a short term thing to raise kh and ph. To much and you have problems. I would not advise you to mess with that at all right now until you test. I would also recommend you do an internet search for your city water quality report. You might only find 2014 report is the most recent, but it will give you a base line if the city's water. Mine reads ph is between 9.6 to 10.2 ph and alkaline/calcium is between 17 and 35 ppm. They do this to help prevent build up in the water lines and towers.

In all honesty, I would not do anything like that unless you have falling ph during your cycle.

Baking soda is a short term thing, and will be used up fairly quickly. If you do have a kh problem, then there is other ways to fix it. I would not add a teaspoon of baking soda in one shot either. You can go from your 7.6 to 8.8 doing that.

 

It's been consistently 7.6. He mentioned that his tap water's KH is low and that mine might be, but because he's on city water and I'm on county water, I should check when the test kit arrives. His water is processed through different plants and held ad a different reservoir from mine, so there may be some differences in the levels of the chemicals I'm testing for.

Baking soda is ok to use but if your PH is consistent right now I'd wait and see what the test shows. If its low you're better off using aragonite, or crushed coral, or cuttle(fish)bone (in the bird section), or shells of any kind including oyster shells etc. That way the minerals are always there and will dissolve as needed and hold things steady for you.

What is the dosing rate for adding baking soda? I need to raise mine maybe 1-2 dKH. I've been using aragonite and cuttle bone but can't get it to go above 4.

Since you have cuttlebone and aragonite I wouldn't worry about it being at 4dKh as long as your ph has stayed consistent. That's the great thing about the minerals is that IF your KH gets used up and your PH starts to fall they just dissolve more and hold things steady

 

This morning:
pH 7.6
Ammonia 1ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate harder to tell; it's not quite yellow but not quite orange, so I'm putting it down as somewhere between 0 and 5ppm
Temp 79F

I added the TSS this morning after testing, so I'll check again in 24 hours and see if it helped.

This tank. it is driving me bonkers.

 

Ok, since you added tss, you might want to make sure you have an ammonia source on hand. Janitorial Grade Ammonia from Ace hardware is good. Just make sure the ingredients say just ammonia and water. If you do not have an ammonia source, once your ammonia hits 0 for 24 hours, your tss bacteria starts to starve and die ending your cycle. Just an FYI

 

What about adding a cooked or raw prawn/shrimp. I have done this in the past to save using fish. As it decays it produces the ammonia. Very old school I know.

 

I have shrimp in the freezer and ammonia in the cleaning cabinet.. I could do either way. I've also heard about using fish food as an ammonia source. I also need to top off the tank water soon; it's a couple gallons low at the moment. I might just see what it does after adding new (treated) tap water before I put in any additional ammonia source.

Amazon tells me the supplies I bought yesterday will arrive by 8pm tomorrow.

 

Sounds reasonable, if you do add prawn, you can test the water and when it gets to 3-4 ppm remove it and then add back when the ammonia drops to zero. Repeat until the nitrite spikes then falls to 0. At that point you should be cycled.

 

I wouldn't let ammonia get to 3 or 4 with TSS plus. Only 1 to 2. According to Tetra is has failed when it goes that high. You need ammonia to cycle but too much and the newly introduced bacteria will die off.
I'd go with pure ammonia. Make sure the stuff you have is without surfactants or perfumes etc. It should not foam when shaken.

 

Baking soda is ok to use but if your PH is consistent right now I'd wait and see what the test shows. If its low you're better off using aragonite, or crushed coral, or cuttle(fish)bone (in the bird section), or shells of any kind including oyster shells etc. That way the minerals are always there and will dissolve as needed and hold things steady for you.



Since you have cuttlebone and aragonite I wouldn't worry about it being at 4dKh as long as your ph has stayed consistent. That's the great thing about the minerals is that IF your KH gets used up and your PH starts to fall they just dissolve more and hold things steady

Thanks Cindi. I don't think it has fluctuated more than like 7.4 (maybe) to 7.6. Usually 7.5 or 7.6. So I'll just stick with the stuff I have and stay low on the KH unless something changes.

 

Approximately 24 hours after adding TSS, here's where we are this morning:
pH 7.6
Ammonia 1 ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5ppm
Temp 78F

So ammonia hasn't dropped any more, but nitrates are back up and pH is still holding. The GH and KH test kits should be arriving today. Maybe that will give some insight on what else s going on with this tank.

 

Just FYI, sometimes with TSS you never see nitrites....I think their bacterial blend has lots of nitrospira in it.

 

KH and GH kit arrived this evening, so I decided to Test All The Things, even though I tested this morning.
KH - 7 drops
GH - 12 drops
pH - seemed really dark blue, much darker than it usually is, so I did a high pH test too, and it was 8.2! All I added was the TSS; should it have jumped up like that?
Ammonia 1ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5ppm
Temp 78F

 

I haven't been seeing nitrites anyway. I have never gotten a reading higher than 0.

 

KH and GH kit arrived this evening, so I decided to Test All The Things, even though I tested this morning.
KH - 7 drops
GH - 12 drops
pH - seemed really dark blue, much darker than it usually is, so I did a high pH test too, and it was 8.2! All I added was the TSS; should it have jumped up like that?
Ammonia 1ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5ppm
Temp 78F

Everything looks great! Your water is hard so you could easily have live bearers. I can't remember what will be in this tank.....
My guess is your PH wasn't reflected correctly on the strips and was always like this. This makes sense because of the hardness of your water. Your PH will be very stable which is good. Almost all fish can adjust to a ph between the upper 6's and the lower 8's, what's key is stability which you will have here. Mine is 7.9 or so right now and I have all kinds of "soft water" fish along with my livebearers.

 

I was using the liquid test from the API master kit, and previous high pH tests have always put it at under 7.8. I only thought to test for high pH this evening because the pH test liquid was really dark blue, as opposed to the pale blue it usually is, which it was this morning.

Livebearers are the plan. She wants guppies and platys.

 

This morning I didn't test for water hardness, just the others.
Ammonia 1ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5-10ppm (darker than 5, lighter than 10)
Temp 78F

 

Looks like things are progressing.

 

Slowly. So slowly. But it's getting there.

I just hope it's "there" enough that I can let my sister take my daughter fish shopping in six days.