Fishless Cycle. Nitrites.

HI I'm currently useing seachems stability to cycle my tank. I'm obv going by instructions etc. I eventually ended up with 1ppm ammonia. 8ppm nitrites & 8 ppm nitrates.. I was told high nitrites will stall my cycle & to do a 50% water change. Iv just done a 50% water change. My readings are now
Ammonia : 0.2. - topping this back up to 3ppm shortly.
Nitrites : still 8ppm.. why?
And nirates have gone too 0ppm.. this is after a 50% water change my nitrites are still 8ppm.. from the tap I get no nitrites.
Any advice ? Should I add more seachems stability? Or add ammonia too 3ppm & wait 24hrs.?

 

HI I'm currently useing seachems stability to cycle my tank. I'm obv going by instructions etc. I eventually ended up with 1ppm ammonia. 8ppm nitrites & 8 ppm nitrates.. I was told high nitrites will stall my cycle & to do a 50% water change. Iv just done a 50% water change. My readings are now
Ammonia : 0.2. - topping this back up to 3ppm shortly.
Nitrites : still 8ppm.. why?
And nirates have gone too 0ppm.. this is after a 50% water change my nitrites are still 8ppm.. from the tap I get no nitrites.
Any advice ? Should I add more seachems stability? Or add ammonia too 3ppm & wait 24hrs.?

I'd decrease the ammonia dosing down to 2ppm unless you plan on significantly overstocking your tank. If you're going to just stock your tank with a normal full load for the tank size within a day or two of the cycle finishing 2 ppm is more than enough.
What test kit are you using that reads Nitrites that high? Oh, sorry, I see on your pictures. Since 8 ppm is the highest that kit measures, it probably means your nitrites were much higher than 8ppm before the 50% water change and may still be much higher than 8ppm. I'd suggest doing another 75% water change. If they are truly at 8 ppm now, a 75% change should bring them down to about 2ppm. THEN redose ammonia to 2 ppm. The end is near! I suspect your tank will be cycled in another week or 2!

 

Thank you, ill do a 75% change today

Did another 50% change, didnt really want to go past the intake. Anyhow my nitrites are now readable on my test kit. At roughly 6ppm id say. Iv ran out off water conditioner now, so ill get my ammonia too 2ppm. Re-test. Buy some new conditioner in the morning & if need be another 25% water change to achieve 2ppm nitrites. Should I steer clear of adding anymore seachems stability. As this will likely increase my nitrites.

 

Hey I'm doing a fishless cycle: useing seachems stability & prime.

I had excessive ntrites of 8ppm+ and 8ppm+ nitrates. Ammonia was 3-4ppm. Did 75% water change this brought my nitrites down too roughly 2 ppm last night. And nitrates were 20.0 ppm. I added ammonia as after the 75% it dropped top a zero yellow reading. So that read 2ppm. The following day my ammonia is 1ppm. & nitrites are 8ppm and so is my nitrates again. My tests only read up to 8ppm so could be more.. is seachems stability sending my nitrogen cycle of the charts as I added some in after water change as bottle states to do do.

 

I'm assuming you mean 80 ppm of nitrates? 8 ppm of nitrate is nothing.

Seachem Stability can send your nitrites higher, because it is simply doing what it is supposed to do. Converting ammonia to nitrite.

How many days have you been using it and how long has the tank been set up?
How large is the tank?
Are you following the directions on the bottle carefully?
What are you using as an ammonia source?

 

Tanks been cycleing for aprox 6 weeks. Only started useing seachems the past week though. Tank size is 145 litres. And yes following bottle instructions. Ammonia source is bottled pure ammonia 9.5% concentrate. How do I lower nitrites to aprox 2ppm so my cycle won't stall. Once I achieve 2ppm there is no need for seachems if its going to convert ammonia into more nitrates surely. When to much = a cycle crash. Nitrates will completly disapear after a water change like last time I know this. Am I to not add ammonia I'm confused

 

Your nitrites will go to zero once the BB that convert nitrites to nitrates have built up to a level where they can handle the incoming nitrites that the first lot of bacteria are converting your ammonia to Your nitrates will continue to rise (but you don't really need to worry about that whist you are completing your cycle) unless

a) you do water changes
b) you have plants that use them
c) you have anerobic bacteria that eat nitrates (this last one is trickier and a lot of people just worry about a and b) After 20+ years I'm having a go at c

When both the ammonia eating bacteria and the nitrite eating bacteria are fully colonised, you should see zero of both (perhaps 0.25ppm ammonia) and reasonably high nitrates, depending on the total amount of ammonia that is being converted.

Something that will cause your cycle to stall is if your ph drops too much. You need to keep an eye on that as well, and ideally keep it above 7 whilst cycling. It will drop if your water is too soft (no buffering capacity)

Tony.

 

Soo shall I do a 50% water change? Add ammonia so its 2ppm. Get nitrites lower? And keep of stability for a while. Whilest the current nitrites grow from the ammonia?

 

I'll wait for someone else to chime in, I've never done a cycle adding ammonia. or used stability, so don't know whether a water change is a good idea or not. The last true cycle I did was probably five or more years ago, and it was fish in and using fluval cycle.

I just googled stabilities instructions and it seems similar to fluval cycle so I would guess a water change is ok, but I'd wait for someone else to give their opinion

Tony.

 

high nitrites are ok with fish less cycle.

high ammonia and high nitrate can stall or slow down a cycle. maybe do a 50% weekly water change.



"The nitrite-oxidizing activity of ZS-1 started to be inhibited by ammonia and nitrate when the concentrations of ammonia and nitrate reached 25 mg L−1 and 100 mg L−1, respectively. The inhibition was stronger with higher concentration of ammonia or nitrate. The nitrite-oxidizing activity of ZS-1, however, was not inhibited by high concentration of nitrite (500 mg L−1)."

 

Edit: Oops! Should have checked before posting but I just realized that you're new around here, so I would first like to say... Welcome to Fishlore!!

HI I've done all my cycling using ammonia and here's where I think you might be making a mistake... Your ammonia eating BB will not starve so fast that you need to dose ammonia again every time the level hits zero. Every time you add ammonia, you are adding nitrites too, since you already have ammonia eating bacteria converting it.

The nitrite conversion phase always takes a little longer for me than the ammonia conversion phase does. To put this plainly, when fishless cycling a tank, I add ammonia to 2ppm, just like you have. Usually, it takes about a week for ammonia to zero out and after that, ammonia starts converting quickly. By the end of week 2, I can dose ammonia to 2ppm and find ammonia levels at 0ppm 24 hours later.

However, I am still left with nitrites and it doesn't start converting in 24 hours as quickly as ammonia did. Hope I'm making sense here.

The point is, while I await nitrite conversion, I am no longer dosing ammonia very regularly. Here's the guide I've followed many times for a fishless cycle...
https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfi...-other-bacterial-starter.251982/#post-2619716

... which says that nitrIte levels over 4ppm or nitrAte levels over 100ppm may stall a cycle. Idk if that would always be the case, but why take chances on extending an already slow process? So, if nitrite is 4ppm or over, I do a water change to bring it down to 2ppm. Ammonia is not redosed until that nitrite level hits zero, and the process starts again. Ammo to 2ppm, converted by the next day, if nitrites are over 4ppm, water change, when nitrites hit zero, dose ammonia again. If at any time during this process, nitrAtes get to 100ppm... water change and depending on other levels, maybe an ammo dose. When both ammonia and nitrite zero out within 24 hours, the tank is cycled. Big old water change to get nitrAtes very very low, then add fish.

So... if I were in your shoes, I'd do another large water change to bring those nitrItes down to 2ppm, NOT dose ammonia until nitrItes are converted, and if nitrAtes hit 100ppm during this process, water change before the ammo dose..

Hope this helps.

 

I did a 50% water change nitrates is zero now & nitrites its hard to tell being a lightt pink but I think its at around 1ppm. Ammonia is showing yellow so that's zero. Iv also conditioned the water with seachems prime. Should I add anymore stability? Or just add ammonia? So it converts to nitrites and wait a 24hr period to see results?

 

It seems odd that your nitrates would drop to zero after a 50% water change when you were seeing them before..... I'm not familiar with your particular test but I know that the API one it is critical to follow the instructions exactly for the nitrate test or it will likely give lower than actual readings.

Tony.

 

Did a re-test and it shows 1.0 nitrites and 2.5 nitrates. Ammonia still says zero. I also added another dose of stability as bottle says add 1 cap after every water change.

So I'm right in thinking because I have 1 ppm nitrites and zero ammonia. I'm fine to dose 1ppm ammonia which will bring it till 2? If you include the nitrites? Or should I just dose 2ppm.

EDIT: after 30mins.. the same test now reads 4.0 nitrites & 5.0 nitrates. Ammonia is zero still. So I'm not adding anymore ammonia? And hopefully nitrites will lower abit in 24hrs and increase nitrates. Should I add 1ppm ammonia 24hrs from now

 

I would not add ammonia at all until your nitrite test reads zero. At that point, be sure your nitrates aren't very very high... if they are at or very near 100ppm, do a water change before redosing ammonia.

For future reference, no, I would not dose ammonia if it is already present, even at a low level. It's tough because we want to do something and we actually do want to manage the cycle to some extent... but for the most part we should leave things alone and let the process take place. Neither form of nitrifying bacteria will starve if ammo or nitrite is not available for a few days and when we add ammonia, we are again forcing the colony to grow, which we will then be left waiting on some more.

• If ammo is zero but nitrite is present (4ppm or less) - do nothing, re-test in 24 hours
• If ammo is low and nitrite is present (4ppm or less) - do nothing, re-test in 24 hours
• If ammo is zero and nitrite is zero - check nitrates - if nitrates are low, re-dose ammonia but if nitrates are high, do a water change before dosing ammonia
• Anytime nitrites are over 4ppm and/or nitrates are over 100ppm - do a water change, then re-test and follow instructions above.

My number one piece of advice is to read the guide I linked above and then... read it again and again until the information is firm in your mind.

I know you've been waiting a long time and the wait is perhaps the hardest part. I believe that the consistent dosing of ammonia and thus, the high parameters, are what has made this cycle take longer than expected. Your tank is cycling, and what that means is, it is growing bacterial colonies large enough to handle the bioload on the tank. Right now, your ammonia doses are the bioload, and when the load is high, the bacterial colonies need to grow in number to handle those levels. Forgive this old American, lol, but you've got a tank of about 40 gallons there... Once your cycle is done, will you want to add a large bioload (via either a lot of fish at once or fewer fish that are larger and/or have a higher bioload)? I assume that you'll stock slowly and carefully so as not to overwhelm anybody in the tank or the tank's cycle. So, 2ppm of ammo and whatever level of nitrites that will bring is a significant load, more than capable of handling the addition of your first fishies in the tank.

Okay, so when you are adding ammonia before ammo and nitrite levels drop, you are actually increasing the bioload capability to more than 2ppm. This is likely unnecessary and when doing so, you are placing this higher load on your cycle, causing the colonies to increase. It's kinda like taking one quick step backward in order to take 2 very, very slow steps forward. Make sense? Let your filter handle the 2ppm all the way through to nitrates... then dose ammonia again.

Now, I have had a truly stuck cycle before, and in these rare cases, there may be a concern over ammonia eating bacteria starving while waiting for nitrite eating bacteria to convert. Seriously though... this tank sat with ammonia at zero and nitrite at 3ppm for more than two weeks... again and again. Meanwhile, when enough was enough and frustration levels were high, we did water changes so we could re-dose ammo. Those few and far between ammo doses still converted in 24 hours... and nitrite was still stuck. What this means is, that ammo eating bacteria was perhaps sitting dormant as it waited for food... but it did not die over all those days that ammo was not available.

(FYI - for very good reasons, this tank with the stuck cycle was very bare... no substrate, no anything in the tank, and it had a small HOB filter on it with pretty good media inside the filter. However, due to this very stark and empty tank, and the small area within that filter to fit media... there simply wasn't enough area available for bacteria to grow and cycle this tank. When we switched to VERY good media, with a VERY HIGH surface area, (so as to maximize the area for bacteria to grow in a small filter), the tank finally cycled. That cycle was stuck due to not enough area for bacteria to grow. Truly stuck cycles are rare, and even then, there is always a reason which we must figure out and fix.)

At this time, you've given no reason to think your cycle is truly stuck. I believe it has been overwhelmed (that's not really the right word because you are actually growing they cycle, meaning the tank could handle a very high bioload indeed.) However, this very strong cycle is likely unnecessary. So, this means the bacteria are trying to play catch-up due to too many ammonia doses, which brought on an unnecessarily high level of nitrites... which you don't really need because the first addition of fish will likely not bring on 2ppm of ammonia every 24 hours. Make sense? Please, I know I talk too much and that can lead to confusion, so if you have any questions please just ask. We are a friendly community here and we like to help further the hobby by helping other fishkeepers.

 

Thank you so much stella! The way you have explained this too me has gave me a better understanding! And yes I agree I think me worrying about starveing bacteria has put me on a delay but with my new current readings

Ammonia : 0
Nitrites : 4
Nitrate : 2.5 " what ever it was what I posted before"
Looks like its back on track if I DONT dose more ammonia! Till nitrites hit zero. Which in turn will increse nitrates and ofcourse repeat it all over.

 

Stability is to start a fish tank up with beneficial bacteria. prime is used to turn nitrates into nitrites which are less toxic to the fish then nitrates. Use stability for a week then stop and leave the tank alone with a filter on and heater (if you need it,Regardless BB is created quicker with one) for about 2 Weeks. 75% water change is often too much unless your tank is old and has had water changes skipped.

 

Stability is to start a fish tank up with beneficial bacteria. prime is used to turn nitrates into nitrites which are less toxic to the fish then nitrates. Use stability for a week then stop and leave the tank alone with a filter on and heater (if you need it,Regardless BB is created quicker with one) for about 2 Weeks. 75% water change is often too much unless your tank is old and has had water changes skipped.

I know I'm no expert but I also know you have your nitrogen cycle backwards here, nitrates are the lese toxic an go via water change and nitrites are the more toxic version

 

Stability is to start a fish tank up with beneficial bacteria. prime is used to turn nitrates into nitrites which are less toxic to the fish then nitrates. Use stability for a week then stop and leave the tank alone with a filter on and heater (if you need it,Regardless BB is created quicker with one) for about 2 Weeks. 75% water change is often too much unless your tank is old and has had water changes skipped.

prime doesn't convert nitrates to nitrites. And nitrites are toxic while nitrates are less so. Prime is a dechlorinator that also happens to detox small quantities of ammonia and reportedly nitrites as well. And as long as there isn't a big difference between the parameters of the tank and the source water, there is nothing wrong with changing 75% of the water

 

I never heard of adding Ammonia to cycle - dropping some food to decompose is all I have ever needed to do. If you are trying to cycle with fish - lots of water changes. I have only had to do this when my neighbors kid dropped a quarter bottle of flake food and started a mini-cycle.

 

I never heard of adding Ammonia to cycle - dropping some food to decompose is all I have ever needed to do.

Which creates ammonia. Using pure ammonia skips the decomposing food stage, is much easier to regulate dosage, and is a lot cleaner.

 

Stella my new readings being the following day.

Ammonia : 0 still
Nitrites : look about 7ppm so theyv shot up " alot"
Nitrates : look about 40.0 - 50.0 so they have gone up too. Concidering last time was 2.5.

Shall I water change according to your instructions above. Whats caused the sudden spike in nitrites if ammonia was zero before?

 

Prime just turns ammonia into ammonium, which is not toxic. They actually don’t have any explanation or proof that it detoxifies nitrite or nitrate.

 

Stella my new readings being the following day.

Ammonia : 0 still
Nitrites : look about 7ppm so theyv shot up " alot"
Nitrates : look about 40.0 - 50.0 so they have gone up too. Concidering last time was 2.5.

Shall I water change according to your instructions above. Whats caused the sudden spike in nitrites if ammonia was zero before?

Yes, I would do the water change. Because of your nitrite level, and the reason they've shot up is due to the conversion of ammonia, and that's great! I'm no scientist or mathematician but just from my own experience, 1ppm of ammonia will convert to MORE than 1ppm nitrite. My nitrite test maxes out at 5ppm and dosing 2ppm ammonia always causes the nitrite test to max out. I would have to do dilution tests, (where you mix a specific ratio of tank water and nitrite free water, run the test, then do the math), to find out my actual nitrite levels... which I do not remember but it didn't matter much because I always water change to keep nitrites below 4ppm.

I wouldn't worry about the nitrate level. Yes, it's halfway to 100ppm, but you'll change water for the nitrites AND lower nitrates AND the lower level of nitrites will convert to fewer nitrates than the higher level. It's good that you're keeping an eye on nitrates though, and very good that you see the level rising. This is an indication that your cycle is truly moving along.

 

Ph : 7.6 low or 7.4 high. One or the other, ,on high/low test

Ammonia still : zero
Nitrites : gone too 5ppm why??? It shouldnt surely.. there's been no ammonia for a good few days..
Nitrates : 30ppm. Advice needed.
This is 2 days after the water change btw