Fishless cycle, high nitrate readings?

I have the API test kit.
My reading today after dosing 1ml daily and letting it sit for a week are:
Ammonia 0.5 (it's close to .25)
Nitrite 0
Nitrates are somewhere in the red. Between 40-80.

Is this cycled?

 

How long has the tank been running?

 

How long has the tank been running?

With water roughly 10 days. I have been dosing with ammonia for 8 days straight.

 

You are just starting. Sorry. Nitrites usually show up around week 3. I would get your ammonia up to about 1 or 2 ppm though.

Have you tested all the tests on your tap water? Its good to know where you are starting from. That may be where the Nitrate is coming from.

 

With water roughly 10 days. I have been dosing with ammonia for 8 days straight.

You have been dosing 1 ml ammonia every day? What size tank? What product specifically?

 

You are just starting. Sorry. Nitrites usually show up around week 3. I would get your ammonia up to about 1 or 2 ppm though.

Have you tested all the tests on your tap water? Its good to know where you are starting from. That may be where the Nitrate is coming from.

The tap water was 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 0 nitrate.

You have been dosing 1 ml ammonia every day? What size tank? What product specifically?

I have a 7 gallon tank. I've been dosing 1ml daily yes.

 

That should have more than .25-.50 ppm Ammonia then. Can you take a pic of the result?

 

I have a 7 gallon tank. I've been dosing 1ml daily yes.

Are you using Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride? Or some other ammonia product?

The reason I ask is to check if the parameters you are seeing might make sense or not.

For example, let say it was Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride.

1ml a day for 8 days would be 8ml, or 160 drops.

For your size aquarium, 4*7=28 drops should generate 2ppm ammonia. So you should have added a total of 160/28 = 5.7ppm or so ammonia, which taking away the 0.5ppm you still see, would be 5.2ppm. 5.2ppm ammonia converts to about 19ppm nitrate, give or take. It won't be an exact number because say it is a 7 gallon tank, but the actual water volume might be quite a bit less for example, so concentrations might actually be higher.

Nonetheless, it is quite a bit lower than the 40-80ppm you are seeing, so something is off. It could be your ammonia product you are using has a higher concentration of ammonia for example.

 

That should have more than .25-.50 ppm Ammonia then. Can you take a pic of the result?

I dose every morning. I did not dose before taking the tests this morning. I'm just confused on why the nitrates are there.

Are you using Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride? Or some other ammonia product?

The reason I ask is to check if the parameters you are seeing might make sense or not.

For example, let say it was Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride.

1ml a day for 8 days would be 8ml, or 160 drops.

For your size aquarium, 4*7=28 drops should generate 2ppm ammonia. So you should have added a total of 160/28 = 5.7ppm or so ammonia, which taking away the 0.5ppm you still see, would be 5.2ppm. 5.2ppm ammonia converts to about 19ppm nitrate, give or take. It won't be an exact number because say it is a 7 gallon tank, but the actual water volume might be quite a bit less for example, so concentrations might actually be higher.

Nonetheless, it is quite a bit lower than the 40-80ppm you are seeing, so something is off. It could be your ammonia product you are using has a higher concentration of ammonia for example.

I am using pure ammonia that you can buy from the dollar store. I dose every AM around the same time (give 15 minutes or so). This morning I tested before dosing. I have read somewhere, where if you find nitrates its cycled? I'm not saying this is true. I'm just confused on why they are there.

 

When you shake the bottle of ammonia does it bubble or no? Does it say it has surfactants in it?

 

When you shake the bottle of ammonia does it bubble or no? Does it say it has surfactants in it?

It says it does not have surfactants in it. It does bubble when shaken and has not killed the plants.

 

Do the bubbles disappear really fast or do they stay on top? Do you have a pic of the bottle and ingredients?

 

Did you add any kind of bottled bacteria or seeded media from another fully cycled tank? If not then something else is going on. Normally when just adding ammonia we don't see nitrates this soon. We normally see nitrites as the ammonia starts going down and when the nitrites start going down the nitrate start going up. It is very unusual to be seeing nitrate this high this early in the cycle.

If you shake the ammonia bottle you don't want to see bubbles that linger in the bottle. There will be some bubbles but they should almost immediately disappear. If that doesn't happen with yours then it has something added other than just straight ammonia.

We really do need to understand why we are seeing what we are seeing. We can't say the tank is cycled before figuring it out since fishes lives depend on us getting it right.

 

Do the bubbles disappear really fast or do they stay on top? Do you have a pic of the bottle and ingredients?

Did you add any kind of bottled bacteria or seeded media from another fully cycled tank? If not then something else is going on. Normally when just adding ammonia we don't see nitrates this soon. We normally see nitrites as the ammonia starts going down and when the nitrites start going down the nitrate start going up. It is very unusual to be seeing nitrate this high this early in the cycle.

If you shake the ammonia bottle you don't want to see bubbles that linger in the bottle. There will be some bubbles but they should almost immediately disappear. If that doesn't happen with yours then it has something added other than just straight ammonia.

We really do need to understand why we are seeing what we are seeing. We can't say the tank is cycled before figuring it out since fishes lives depend on us getting it right.

This is an online image of the bottle I am using. I did not use any bottle bacteria. It doesn't have a listed ingredient list online or on the bottle.The bubble do disappear very quickly.

Could it be the CO2 system I have set up for the baby dwarf tears that is throwing everything off? Should I switch over to Tim's? I also have Aqua Soil in the aquarium instead of sand/gravel.

Sorry for the late responses, I was focused on exams. This morning I see white..I'm not sure how to explain it. It's white little fuzzyness on top of most things. Should I do a water change? I don't want to affect anything that could be happening. Should I add fish flakes? (I am in no rush to add fish, I do however want to add more plants but want this resolved before doing so, so I am not wasting my money if I am going to have to restart everything).

 

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This is an online image of the bottle I am using. I did not use any bottle bacteria. It doesn't have a listed ingredient list online or on the bottle.The bubble do disappear very quickly.

Could it be the CO2 system I have set up for the baby dwarf tears that is throwing everything off? Should I switch over to Tim's? I also have Aqua Soil in the aquarium instead of sand/gravel.

Sorry for the late responses, I was focused on exams. This morning I see white..I'm not sure how to explain it. It's white little fuzzyness on top of most things. Should I do a water change? I don't want to affect anything that could be happening. Should I add fish flakes? (I am in no rush to add fish, I do however want to add more plants but want this resolved before doing so, so I am not wasting my money if I am going to have to restart everything).

Oh, aquasoil. That changes a lot. Aquasoil can release ammonia, so it could very much make sense then that you are seeing so much nitrate if nitrification is occuring well.

Did you use established filter media from another tank by any chance? You mentioned you want to add 'more' plants, so are there any already?

I wonder if somehow you added plenty of nitrifiers and yeah your tank is indeed (almost) cycled.

 

This is an online image of the bottle I am using. I did not use any bottle bacteria. It doesn't have a listed ingredient list online or on the bottle.The bubble do disappear very quickly.

The ammonia looks fine so no need to get another brand.

Could it be the CO2 system I have set up for the baby dwarf tears that is throwing everything off? Should I switch over to Tim's? I also have Aqua Soil in the aquarium instead of sand/gravel.

This is a possibility. It is possible you introduced bacteria to this tank while planting it and that would explain the nitrates you are seeing this early in the cycling process. One more question. Are you adding any kind of ferts? Of so that would also explain the nitrates.

Sorry for the late responses, I was focused on exams. This morning I see white..I'm not sure how to explain it. It's white little fuzzyness on top of most things. Should I do a water change? I don't want to affect anything that could be happening. Should I add fish flakes? (I am in no rush to add fish, I do however want to add more plants but want this resolved before doing so, so I am not wasting my money if I am going to have to restart everything).

I would just continue doing what you are doing. Go ahead and add whatever plants you plan on adding. Hold off on adding ammonia until you get a zero reading and then just get it back up to no more than 2ppm every other or even every third day. Since there will be lots of plants I don't think the addition of fish food is necessary.

Edited to add: 2ppm really isn't needed in a tank this size but the plants will be using some of it. Bacteria gets what's left over.

 

The ammonia looks fine so no need to get another brand.

This is a possibility. It is possible you introduced bacteria to this tank while planting it and that would explain the nitrates you are seeing this early in the cycling process. One more question. Are you adding any kind of ferts? Of so that would also explain the nitrates.

I would just continue doing what you are doing. Go ahead and add whatever plants you plan on adding. Hold off on adding ammonia until you get a zero reading and then just get it back up to no more than 2ppm every other or even every third day. Since there will be lots of plants I don't think the addition of fish food is necessary.

Edited to add: 2ppm really isn't needed in a tank this size but the plants will be using some of it. Bacteria gets what's left over.

I didn't think it could be the ferts! I feel so stupid! LOL! I will lower how much I am putting in at once. I didn't think of this possibility. Does high nitrates affect the plants?

Would it harm the cycle to drain the tank for an hour to add additional plants? Or should I do this when it's full?

Oh, aquasoil. That changes a lot. Aquasoil can release ammonia, so it could very much make sense then that you are seeing so much nitrate if nitrification is occuring well.

Did you use established filter media from another tank by any chance? You mentioned you want to add 'more' plants, so are there any already?

I wonder if somehow you added plenty of nitrifiers and yeah your tank is indeed (almost) cycled.

Yes I have baby dwarf tears and another plant I cannot think of the name. (It looks like clovers). The bottom of the tank is almost fully planted at this point. (I did a dry start to start this, and then added water to the tank).

I did not add any media from another tank, as I do not have one to add from.

 

I didn't think it could be the ferts! I feel so stupid! LOL! I will lower how much I am putting in at once. I didn't think of this possibility. Does high nitrates affect the plants?

Not stupid at all. At least now we have an idea why your nitrates are much higher than they should be at this point in the cycle. No, in fact your plants should enjoy them. They don't need to be that high though.

Would it harm the cycle to drain the tank for an hour to add additional plants? Or should I do this when it's full?

I wouldn't drain the tank but it might be easier to plant the plants if you remove some water. Remove half of it and when you refill it the nitrates will be lower.

Keep an eye on the ammonia. Add as suggested above. I suspect the next thing you will see will be nitrites. Once they go up and then start going down the tank will start producing nitrates. At that point I will recommend you do water changes as needed to keep both nitrites and nitrates from going sky high.

 

Not stupid at all. At least now we have an idea why your nitrates are much higher than they should be at this point in the cycle. No, in fact your plants should enjoy them. They don't need to be that high though.

I wouldn't drain the tank but it might be easier to plant the plants if you remove some water. Remove half of it and when you refill it the nitrates will be lower.

Keep an eye on the ammonia. Add as suggested above. I suspect the next thing you will see will be nitrites. Once they go up and then start going down the tank will start producing nitrates. At that point I will recommend you do water changes as needed to keep both nitrites and nitrates from going sky high.

I will start checking the ammonia level daily from here on out, and just put in another order of plants. Thank you very much for all your help! I'm putting in an order for more plants now.

 

Would it harm the cycle to drain the tank for an hour to add additional plants? Or should I do this when it's full?

Nah, it won't harm the cycle.

Yes I have baby dwarf tears and another plant I cannot think of the name. (It looks like clovers). The bottom of the tank is almost fully planted at this point. (I did a dry start to start this, and then added water to the tank).

I did not add any media from another tank, as I do not have one to add from.

Yeah I'll be honest, chances are that your tank is cycled.

What I'd recommend is doing as close as possible to a 100% water change, then dose 2ppm ammonia. If it gets down to 0.25ppm or whatever within 24 hours, dose 2ppm again and again if it gets down to 0.25ppm, then that's it. You're cycled.

The reason for the suggestion above is,

1. A lot of people always measure 0.25ppm ammonia even in established tanks anyways. If your measurement is more like 0.25ppm, that might be just a false reading and can be considered zero.
2. While the ferts are also releasing ammonia, you'd still want to dose 2ppm because the idea is then your tank is capable of handling ammonia both from the ferts AND from whatever you will be feeding your fish once you have them in. Which is yeah, what you'd want. If the tank can only handle the ammonia from the ferts but not from feeding, then once fish is in well, there is actually no nitrification capacity for them.
3. I suggest seeing if 2ppm ammonia can be handled a day twice so that we know the 0.25ppm is likely a false positive reading rather than anything else.

Good luck!

 

I will start checking the ammonia level daily from here on out, and just put in another order of plants. Thank you very much for all your help! I'm putting in an order for more plants now.

You are so very welcome. I would love to see your tank once all the plants are in there. I suspect it is going to be spectacular.

 

What I'd recommend is doing as close as possible to a 100% water change, then dose 2ppm ammonia. If it gets down to 0.25ppm or whatever within 24 hours, dose 2ppm again and again if it gets down to 0.25ppm, then that's it. You're cycled.

I can totally do this. I am traveling to the place where I want to get fish from this Saturday to do some "scouting". While it would be lovely to get the fish in the tank that day, I would rather not rush anything as I know what I am getting can be super sensitive fishies. (I am looking for chili rasboras, or strawberry rasboras). I'd rather know that my tank is ready for them, then not.

You are so very welcome. I would love to see your tank once all the plants are in there. I suspect it is going to be spectacular.

I have a thread for this! The Bonsai Dream {6.8 Gallon} | Freshwater Aquarium Journals Forum | 509319

 

I can totally do this. I am traveling to the place where I want to get fish from this Saturday to do some "scouting". While it would be lovely to get the fish in the tank that day, I would rather not rush anything as I know what I am getting can be super sensitive fishies. (I am looking for chili rasboras, or strawberry rasboras). I'd rather know that my tank is ready for them, then not.

Sounds great. Yeah hopefully the test works out and you can safely get your fish at the end of the coming week. :3

 

I can totally do this. I am traveling to the place where I want to get fish from this Saturday to do some "scouting". While it would be lovely to get the fish in the tank that day, I would rather not rush anything as I know what I am getting can be super sensitive fishies. (I am looking for chili rasboras, or strawberry rasboras). I'd rather know that my tank is ready for them, then not.

Now that you realize the nitrates you are seeing came from the ferts you were adding I would be very cautious about putting fish in this tank just yet. I fear if you do they are going to have to live through the nitrite spike when it happens.

I have a thread for this! The Bonsai Dream {6.8 Gallon} | Freshwater Aquarium Journals Forum | 509319

Thanks for the link. I will be following this thread with anticipation.

 

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Pretty much anything in a bottle like this at the store is going to come heavily loaded with surfactants (often unlisted on the bottle, but the manufacturer data sheet has it). In addition, it will have a variable ammonia content as the data sheet gives a range and the manufacturer doesn't guarantee a specific number.

It is unclear what precise impact the surfactants will have because such chemicals are varied, but pretty clearly something to avoid for a fishless cycle. On top of that, the variable ammonia content makes it difficult to dose precisely. Better off using pure ammonia salt or solution

 

Pretty much anything in a bottle like this at the store is going to come heavily loaded with surfactants (often unlisted on the bottle, but the manufacturer data sheet has it). In addition, it will have a variable ammonia content as the data sheet gives a range and the manufacturer doesn't guarantee a specific number.

This may be so but lots of folks here on the forum have successfully used this kind of ammonia to cycle their tanks.

It is unclear what precise impact the surfactants will have because such chemicals are varied, but pretty clearly something to avoid for a fishless cycle. On top of that, the variable ammonia content makes it difficult to dose precisely. Better off using pure ammonia salt or solution

It is only difficult when using it the first time. Once it is determined as to how much is needed to get it to the targeted level it is easy to add the correct amount from then on. I do agree that it is easier to use something packaged specifically for cycling but often folks don't have that option.

 

I know it has worked, I read that often. But I like to eliminate variables. Bottles of liquid that don't fully list their contents, and whose contents are variable according to whims of a manufacturer.. this is a big source of variability. The biggest problem for a newcomer like me is uncertainty, and eliminating it is paramount.