Fish Room Design/ Planning (need Input)

So I am buying a new house and there is an unfinished storage room in the basement that I got approval on ( from the wife) to use as a fish room. I am moving from a small town home into a good size single family home so I can get more tanks than I was able to before. It is a 13 foot by 13 foot room. I don't want it to be a mismatched room with tanks all over the place. I plan on making everything uniform and nice.

A co-worker had a python snake in his 210 gallon tank that recently died (R.I.P) and is giving me the tank 7"x2"x2" ( I hit the jackpot on this one).

So with that I plan to have all the tanks on auto water change systems. I plan to use a sump on the 210 with an auto water change system that also has auto top off. It will change 10 gallons twice a day using an rv filter to pull out chlorine and chloramines. I am luck enough to have easy access to plumbing because one wall backs up to a bathroom and the walls are unfinished. That said I plan to run the drain line around the room and have fresh cold water supply run around the room. The rest of the tanks will be on a drip system that will overflow into the drains.

As far as what I have now for fish tanks:
10 gallon platy tank:
6 platy and a few fry

29 gallon community tank:
1 King tiger pleco
1 amazon puffer
3 honey gourami
4 corys ( I need to get more )
6 otos
1 peaceful male betta fish (has been in there for 9 months now no problems)

So the 210 will be a peacock and hap African cichlid tank that will be an all male display tank. I will be building this up slow and growing out my own cichlids in a "breeding rack system" I want to set up. The plan is to buy 5 x 40 breeders that will all be filtered through one sump but each tank can be turned off while quarantined and filtered via hang on back filters until I can add them back onto the system. There will be 2 tanks side by side and 2 layers high the 5th tank will be the sump so all together the system will be about 170 gallons. With this system I want to buy about 8 fish of 4 species of African cichlids at 1-2 inches and grow them out in species only tanks one in each 40 breeder. Then I will select the best male and sell the rest to my local fish store. I asked them and they said they would give me store credit for 3-4 inch cichlids no problem.

This is where I need some advice to start. With the 210 gallon tank if I start out with 4 species of peacocks growing out in the rack and only add fish to the 210g as they get to about 3-4 inches will I have any issues with aggression adding them since most places I read they say overstocking helps with aggression. So the first set of 4 will go in and ill have 4 fish in the 210 gallon tank then months later ill add 4 more and repeat this till I hit my cap of between 25-35 fish depending on what species of haps I decide to get.

With my other space I would like to set up four+ 120 gallon tanks each with it's own sump similar to The King of DIY's current set up( I don't plan on doing youtube though). The door is on the south west corner of the room. So the west wall will have 2 120 gallon tanks. The north wall will have my 210 gallon tank and maybe a single 120 gallon tank. The east wall will have two 120 gallon tanks and maybe a fry/grow out rack for breeding if I decide to go that route. lastly the 40 gallon breeder rack will be on the south wall. The room will be kept at about 75 degrees by a space heater so I shouldn't need heaters in the sumps but I might put one in as a backup.

This is a long post and is probably 2-50 years from completion ( ^_^) depending on funds but what I want from you guys is cautionary tales of bad experiences and advice for me. I am still learning and want to take this slow and enjoy the process of building this fish room. So please pick my plan apart find holes in the ideas I have. I look forward discussions as we go. Thank you in advance for any responses.

 

I would guess as you increase your stocking you will see aggression as the new fish get added in then taper off as it gets more fully stocked. A good trick that might work is when you add the new fish do a rescape at the same time as it has been known to help with disrupting territories and curbing aggression.

 

You may want to install some FRP or something water tight.on the ceilings and walls..with the confined space and tankload you may incur some humidity issues.

 

You may want to install some FRP or something water tight.on the ceilings and walls..with the confined space and tankload you may incur some humidity issues.

Ok that is a great idea there is a small half size window in the room I might be able to run a dehumidifier

 

Are you sure your planned filter system will remove all the chloramines? I watched a video from someone selling RO systems for aquariums who said some small amount of chloramine would remain even after going through two solid block activated carbon filters. Apparently a significant amount is left after the first carbon block. (Not saying they aren't effective, but 90% effective leaves 10% behind after one and 1% after two.) I would be very sure the filter you intend to use is going to do the job to the fish's liking.

For your breeder tanks, have you considered putting a sponge filter of adequate size in each tank? That would allow you to cut any tank off from the sump and it would still have cycled filtration available. Alternatively, you could put the sponges in the sump and have them always ready to go.

If the basement isn't already finished and extremely well insulated, I'd suggest adding insulation before you start. Where I live the basement gets down to about 60F at night during the winter, and that's with the furnace running. You might also want to think about adding a gas space heater if possible. Maintaining a 10F difference with electric heat is going to get very expensive. We had to use a space heater in one room this last winter and even when only running it at night it added at least $25 to the electric bill each month.

 

Are you sure your planned filter system will remove all the chloramines? I watched a video from someone selling RO systems for aquariums who said some small amount of chloramine would remain even after going through two solid block activated carbon filters. Apparently a significant amount is left after the first carbon block. (Not saying they aren't effective, but 90% effective leaves 10% behind after one and 1% after two.) I would be very sure the filter you intend to use is going to do the job to the fish's liking.

For your breeder tanks, have you considered putting a sponge filter of adequate size in each tank? That would allow you to cut any tank off from the sump and it would still have cycled filtration available. Alternatively, you could put the sponges in the sump and have them always ready to go.

If the basement isn't already finished and extremely well insulated, I'd suggest adding insulation before you start. Where I live the basement gets down to about 60F at night during the winter, and that's with the furnace running. You might also want to think about adding a gas space heater if possible. Maintaining a 10F difference with electric heat is going to get very expensive. We had to use a space heater in one room this last winter and even when only running it at night it added at least $25 to the electric bill each month.

Thank you for the suggestion I'll research the filter I also have the option of doing both, using a filter and maybe daily/weekly adding of water conditioners I just want to automate the system as much as possible. Also like I said the system will only change 5% water every 12 hours. So the amount of chlorine and chloramine will be minimal.

The breeder tanks I was planning on running hang on back with media from the running sump to keep it cycled. It will run for the couple weeks to a month then boil the media and re add it to the sump after the fish are added back to the system. At the time the fish will be small so filtering a 40 gallon system will be easy. I don't like the sound of air pumps and I want to use wet dry sumps and powerheads for surface agitation and oxegen exchange.

I would like to insulate the basement but I would have to frame it and then insulate it then drywall it. I may have to do that slowly because it is expensive. 2 of the 4 walls are framed but the external walls are not. Thank you for the suggestion I will need to factor this in. I have natural gas line in the house I don't know what it would take to run a line to that room the nearest line is about 20 feet away through 2 walls. I'm not sure if you where talking about a propane heater or not I just brainstorming. The basement is finished but the room I am using is not. Also the basement has forced air heat and AC I have one duct in that room so I would be only adjusting the temperature from what that is getting the room temperature to.

Keep the suggestions coming guys this is excellent I don't want to get so far into it and then realize If I had only done something up front it would have been so much easier.

 

Ok that is a great idea there is a small half size window in the room I might be able to run a dehumidifier

If nothing else hang green board for drywall...its just drywall with a layer of plastic under the paper.

Your exterior walls that are concrete...just drylock them. Goes on with a roller.

 

Also like I said the system will only change 5% water every 12 hours. So the amount of chlorine and chloramine will be minimal.

The chlorine probably wouldn't be an issue as it will escape to atmosphere pretty quickly, but the chloramine will stay in the water for a long time. It's much more deadly in small amounts because it gets into the bloodstream while chlorine gas damages the gill tissues but doesn't otherwise enter the body.

I would like to insulate the basement but I would have to frame it and then insulate it then drywall it. I may have to do that slowly because it is expensive. 2 of the 4 walls are framed but the external walls are not.

If you don't care about the look there are other ways to stop heat loss aside from conventional fiberglass insulation. I saw a video where somebody used this stuff that looks like bubble wrap made of aluminum foil to insulate his aquarium directly. Further investigation found the material itself doesn't provide all that much insulation, but if you can get a column of dead air between two layers of the stuff the insulating factor goes way up. You could build frames from cheap 1"x2" lumber and staple the bubble sheeting on both sides, sandwiching the air in between. Then hang the frames against the wall. The stuff is called Reflectix and Home Depot sells a 400 sq. ft. roll for $130. Even if you just hung a curtain of the stuff in front of the exterior wall you'd probably see significant savings.

I have natural gas line in the house I don't know what it would take to run a line to that room the nearest line is about 20 feet away through 2 walls. I'm not sure if you where talking about a propane heater or not I just brainstorming.

Yeah, I was thinking natural gas. Propane would likely be rather expensive. Both would need to be vented though. That's likely to be the trickiest part.

Also the basement has forced air heat and AC I have one duct in that room so I would be only adjusting the temperature from what that is getting the room temperature to.

That does make it easier. My basement is also heated, though we tend to keep the vents closed most of the way or the main house doesn't get enough heat. The primary issue here is the main house gets set back to 67F at night. That lets the basement get to about 60F. The portions of the exterior walls that are below grade don't get much below 55F no matter how cold the air is outside, but the basement isn't insulated so there's constant movement of heat from the room into the walls. If I had it to do over I'd at least insulate the outer walls in the finished portion of the basement.

 

So I spent some time researching removing chloramine from the water. Please correct me if I am wrong my understanding is limited.

It seems that water conditioners i.e. prime only block it and prevent it from being harmful to fish while causing the chlorine to gas off. So this leaves water safe for fish almost immediately.

What I was considering doing is using a 3 stage carbon filter 5 micron sediment filter then a 1 micron carbon block filter followed by a .5 micron carbon block filter then place an inline uv sterilization unit after that to breakdown the remainder of the chloramine. This should in theory remove all chloramine. Now I said in theory I have seen many auto water change systems using this method(in videos on YouTube).

I really don't want a treated reservoir. My secondary idea would be turn off the return pump from the sump drain 10 gallons of water. Then treat the sumps volume with an auto doser, and refill the 10 gallons. After that turn the return pump back on. This should keep all the water treated and a 1 gallon jug of prime cost $90 that would last over a year even treating 55 gallons of water twice a day

If anyone has other ideas to remove chloramine let me know.

 

So I have been doing some thinking about my sump and auto water change system. I was going to buy an auto water changer system off of Amazon for like $200. But I am going to get a 40 breeder for my sump I was thinking of drilling it and setting that up to a drain. Then buying smart plugs that I can control from my phone. I would plug the return pump for my sump into one, a sump pump with a float switch to another, an auto doser, and a 110v solenoid valve on the incoming water line.
The programming would work like this ever 12 hours:
The return pump would power down
5 mins later the sump pump would turn on and drain the sump to proper level based on the float switch.
5 mins later the sump pump will shut off and an auto doser would dose prime for the 25ish gallons in the sump.(Total filled volume)
5 mins later turn on the solenoid to fill the sump for a set amount of time based on flow through the valve.
Finally turn the return pump back on.

The idea is to give room for error and an overflow to prevent flooding. I think this might be the best solution to my auto water change system. Any ideas or tweaks are welcome.

 

Zach B. , a gallon of Prime shouldn't cost that much.

Kensfish.com has it for $74.

Also, you should probably consider Seachem's Safe, the powdered version of Prime. 1/4 tsp treats 300 gallons and a kilo costs about $29 @ Ken's (LINK)

I get Safe, Prime and a lot of my other supplies and fish food from Ken's. No tax and free s&h on orders over $49. I love that place!

Regarding your water change system, look up Steve Poland Aquatics. I believe Steve had a couple of videos on his water change system in his basement.

While we don't have basements in my part of the country, my recommendation would be to invest on infrastructure upgrades as much as you can first (electrical, gas lines, insulation, drains, water supply, etc etc). It may cost more to do it all at first before starting the fish room build, but that is better than dealing with a room that is too hot/cold/humid depending on the season.

 

Thank you for the web site and your input Islandvic If a need large orders ill use this as my two large online order places and my local fish store for individual purchases

My new build plan:

Seal external walls: ~ $40

Frame walls: ~$500 (I will need a cement nail gun)

Wire the room: $500+ I want to run the room on it's own GFCI breaker and I'll pay an electrician to do this.

This is all value added to the home to this point for future buyers everything else will not be counted as home improvement. Except the insulation.
_______________________________________________________________________

Do the plumbing with Pex hosing 3/4 inch. This is my ocd coming out but I don't want exposed plumbing except hoses coming down from the tanks behind it. So my plan is to frame the wall then build a dummy wall out 6 inches framed by 1x3 "studs and only going up to 1/3 the height (chair rail height) of the wall allowing all the plumbing to be exterior to the main wall but enclosed and not visible. This also provides me with a ledge behind the tank for supplies and also the ability to remove it easier if I move in the future( I don't want to but the wife may eventually). I will put in something similar to a clothing washer drain/water supply for each tank/rack and run the whole room on 1 and 1/2 inch PVC drain. ~ $400 ( might be a bit less expensive because pex is cheap)

Insulate the external walls with regular fiberglass batting insulation. ~$100

Drywall all the walls and ceiling. ~$300

Paint the cement floor and walls ~ $150

Buy this heater for the room: $450

The gas heater was a good idea but venting the heater properly would be very expensive and not something I want to do. I still think this will be more efficient and safer than individual heaters in the sumps.

Install a dehumidifier:
This is probably big enough considering our outdoor humidity is on average 15-25% and with HVAC running 8+ months out of the year the humidity levels should be fine. ~$50

estimated total cost with me doing most the work + 10% for error: $2800 but I will consider about $1500 of that home improvement.

After all this is done I will start moving fish tanks into the room. From the looks of it I won't be even putting water in my 210 gallon tank for 3-9 months because I want to do it right and have it look very clean. I also agree that a good well thought out build will be very important to complete before I start populating the room with fish. I think ill be lucky if I have my 210 stocked by this time next year.

P.S. I think I will buy 2-3 inch male peacocks and haps from 2 places I found on the internet all in 2 separate orders. I think this is better than growing them out myself at least for the initial group. Live fish direct for the bulk of the fish and goliad farm for a few of his nice looking hybrids (please don't attack me for liking hybrids each person can enjoy what they want). I have seen unboxing videos and review videos about theses two online stores and they seen reputable. I would like to hear if any of you have had good or bad experiences with fish from these places.

Another long one but as always please provide any useful information I missed on the build or any comments you may have.

 

Buy this heater for the room: $450

I was with you right up to here. Being as tactful as I can, this would be an economically questionable choice. In this situation, heat is heat. You're going to get the exact same heat out of a $50 electric space heater as you will from this $450 unit. It's all going to be limited by the wattage you can get on a single electrical circuit.

If you can find a spot for it, I'd recommend an oil-filled electric radiator. It's a much more gentle heat available over a longer time since it continues radiating after the heating coil turns off. You won't have hot air blowing in any particular direction, though it will be warmer right next to the radiator.

Short of that, I'd get a cheap electric heater that blows air over warm coils. Maybe something that can be bracket mounted near the ceiling so it's up and out of the way. Also well away from any spills.

Since you're going to have an electrician do the wiring, I'd consider running multiple circuits, with one dedicated to the heater. Might even want to consider having a 240V line put in. There are industrial 240V heaters that will put out significantly more heat than any common consumer version, even a Dyson. Check Amazon. There are quite a few that aren't even that expensive. Most are way cheaper than the Dyson.

 

I believe all of your due diligence is going to pay off. What helps me when starting house projects is sketching everything thing out to scale, with both overhead and front views. That way my wife can sign off on what she likes and ensures I am interpreting what she wants. Ha

I think having the false wall to plumb the water supply and drain pipes is a very good idea, plus the 6" ledge on top is a very handy bonus!

Wow, I can't imagine living somewhere with 15-25% humidity. That would be fantastic! It averages 70-90% year round here.

You mentioned livefishdirect and Goliad Farms. Very coincidental, ha. My friend and I have made 2 group purchases from LFD, both times all fish arrived alive and healthy with no subsequent disease or illness. I did receive a female Red NeyrereI although I ordered a male juvie. I took some pics and emails LFD, then Josh refunded that fish and a % of the s&h. Very good customer service for that order. I took advantage of their 25% off all stock during the 4th of July Sale. They routinely have 20%-25% off sales during major holidays, so if you can plan future purchases around the weeks of 4th of July, Labor Day, Memorial Day, Black Friday, etc etc, a lot of $ can be saved !

We've also made 2 group purchases from Imperial Tropicals in Florida. Again the fish arrived all alive and healthy. We both would buy from there again.

Although I have never bought anything from Goliad Farms, I would do so when the occasion arises. I discoved them last year when doing Google searches trying to find cichlid breeders in Texas. Although a very basic website, their blogs are very interesting. Then I saw the video tour that Cory did of Goliad Farms with the owner and I was blown away and amazed with the operation! Having 100% natural filtration using all plants is awesome!

For being a small family run business with minimal employees and having such a large operation, shows the dedication and passion of Goliad Farms, especially with the damage they incurred from Hurricane Harvey.

If we ever set up a larger African tank, I would make attempt to actually go to Goliad Farms and select the fish myself to stock it. It's close enough to where we live to make a short day trip out of going there.

I think you would be very happy with the quality of hybrids and other Africans from there.

Keep us updated on any new plans/work. Having a thread with a fish room build starting in the planning phase will be very interesting!

 

You don't need a concrete pun nailer.
Rent or borrow a hammer drill and get some tapcons....essentially a blue concrete screw w hex drive.
You don't even need that many anchor points...2 ever 4 lineal feet of wall for what you're doing.
You can also put a little liquid nails on your treated bottom plate. I accidentally smashed a tube of liwuid nails on my droveway 20 yrs ago....still there.

 

JayH Thank you all for your input the reason I selected the Dyson was for the reviews on even heating throughout the room because of the air flow and the accuracy of the thermostat. I agree that $400+ is expensive and as I always do I will continue to research to find an equivalent alternative that is not so expensive unless I can't find one. Also you will not offend me with constructive criticism as long as you are not name calling. Another thing that just occurred to me is even if the thermostat is +- 3-4 degrees the water will be the average because water won't change temperature as fast.

Nobote As far as the nail gun this is not the only finishing project I plan to do and they make $50 powder actuated nail guns with $20 worth of .22 caliber rounds and nails so I think the $70 investment will be worth it. A hammer drill with concrete screws with anchors would cost almost all much as the nail gun to rent. Great idea though I might go that route if I was only doing this one room but like I said I have a laundry room to finish also.

Islandvic Thank you for the reviews of the online retailers. I did consider imperial tropicals but their selection is less extensive than live fish direct but I will factor them in I am trying to minimize shipping costs I'll have to look into if they have free shipping @ x amount of dollars. I have had a bad experience ordering online through azgardens so I do plenty of research before I buy.

 

Regarding the Dyson, I'm sure it does do a good job. But any reasonable electric heater will do okay in a well-insulated 13'x13' room. The biggest issue with any of these is going to the maximum wattage. They ALL top out at 1500 watts unless you go to a 240V model. Some of those go to 3000 watts or more.

Considering the volume of water you'll end up with, I suspect it would be a toss up as to whether the room heater or the aquarium heaters will be more economical to operate. You're ultimately heating the entire room, either with a room heater or with heat transferred from the water into the room. I think the operational cost is going to be a wash. So that leaves the cost of the equipment. You can buy a lot of aquarium heaters for $450.

You aren't currently talking that many tanks, so it shouldn't be that many heaters. For $30 you can get an Inkbird heater controller that gives you very good digital control, meaning you can get away with using cheap heaters because they just have to come on when power is applied. Amazon has a number of very cheap heaters. A quick search found a 2-pack of 300W heaters for $18. I wouldn't dream of using those and depending on the included circuitry to control it, but when the Inkbird is doing the thinking, they should be just fine. So $48 and you've got the biggest tank dealt with. You probably wouldn't even need both heaters as long as the room stays within 10F of your target tank temp. Split up the 2-pack and you're at $38 per tank. That's under $200 for the five tanks you're talking about, plus you get the option to set different tanks to different temps.

Of course, switch the Dyson out for a $75 oil-filled radiator or a $50 heating coil with a fan, and the equation changes rather dramatically. BTW, I'd seriously consider getting an Inkbird to control the space heater. It allows you to separate the temperature sensor from the heater and get a much more accurate reading. You would need to get an old fashioned heater with non-digital controls. The digital ones won't work right if you interrupt the power.

 

Bosch Bulldog Xtreme 8 Amp 1 in. Corded Variable Speed SDS-Plus Concrete/Masonry Rotary Hammer Drill with Carrying Case-11255VSR - The Home Depot

Does more than one thing, will last a lifetime.
You can use it to run a 3 inch hole saw etc.

 

JayH I have been doing research and there is a large difference in efficiency when it comes to heating a whole room versus a tank based on how the heat is delivered. It will run more or less frequently based on how well it controls. I agree 1500 watts of heat is 1500 watts of heat, but my point is 1500 watts of heat from a space heater vs 1500 watts of heat from submersible tank heaters will both heat the room and the tanks at different Kilowatt hours used per month. That said after doing more research I have removed the dyson from my plan and I am trying to decide on two different heaters.

with the inkbird like you recommended( but I could only find inkbirds rated to 1200W is there a 1500W model I am not finding)

or

without.

From many review sights the Dr-infrared heater is one of the most efficient and accurate heaters for the price range

The panel heater is wall mountable and rated highly for quality of heat but the efficiency I hampered by the terrible thermostat but with the inkbird thermostat I think it will be a beast. both would be a little over $100 much better than $450

 

Nobote would you then just run concrete screws or do anchor bolts with that?

 

You can run tapcons, expansion anchors, drive anchors...its make a hole for a standard light framing tapcon in about 5 seconds....with a spline drive ( sds) you slip a sleeve with a 5/16th hex driver right over the bit and sink the anchor with the same drill.
You can use same unit to drill half inch to 3/4" holes in 4x4 timbers for framing a deck. Itll run a 3 inch concrete hole saw through cinder blocks.

 

I thought the cheaper Inkbirds did 1500W, but it looks like I was wrong. They have one for $40 that will do 15A (1800W). There are also some with separate controllers and relays that start at $35. You'd need to do some wiring and enclose the relay in an electrical box. There are several different models like this one so you may want to look through what's available. I just linked to the cheapest one. These all do 25A and will work up to 380V AC, so you'd be good even with one of those industrial heaters.

I think the infrared heater could be a problem with the Inkbird since it has digital controls that will probably get reset to some default whenever the power to the unit is switched off. That's the way my digital control one works. Since the Inkbird works by cycling the power to the unit, that's not going to work.

I do want to warn you, in case you've never used an electric heater like this, these things can use a LOT of electricity. I have what used to be a three season porch that's been fully enclosed. It's insulated, but perhaps not as well as it could be. The gas heater out there went out last winter and I was forced to use an electric heater just to keep the room from getting ridiculously cold at night. Even with the heater set to 62F it cost about $30/month just to run it at night when the outside temp went below zero. That heater absolutely couldn't have got that room to 75F on those nights.

 

So good news all the hurtles to buying my house are done now it is just waiting for closing on September 10th!

I think I am going to buy this heater and a thermostat of some kind(need to do more research). I think I might add a low profile celling fan to help keep the temperature even throughout the room. the nice thing about this heater is it has wheels so when I am not doing things in the room I can keep it in the middle and then roll it to the side while I am in there.

I also spoke with my step dad and he said that I could use his equipment to nail the bottom plate. So even more money savings.

I plan to reseal my 210 gallon tank I saw it this weekend at my co-worker's house and the silicon is in bad shape but the glass is 3/4" think :0. that is a beast of a tank and is going to be fun carrying it down stairs. Ill be leaving it in my garage till that is done because silicon stinks. I am going to sketch out my final plan of my fish room.

 

This is one setup I was thinking about. The other would be replacing the 10 foot rack and the 2 x 90 gallon tanks with 125 gallon tanks. My wife said she wanted to have one fish tank visible from the living room down stairs. I could run the plumbing through the wall and under the stairs. Sorry this is not perfectly to scale but the room is a 13x13 square. the math works out with plenty of space between tanks. it would be about 1,000 gallons total in my basement. I will wait to plan the systems till I am post construction then I will make my final decisions. I am super excited to get started. I am going to have $1,000 to start it day one. Then about $300-600 a month so we will see how far I get with the initial $1000.

The 240 gallon or even a custom built 8'x3'x2' tank would be awesome to have 3 stingrays and a giant school of Congo Tetras.

 

So good news all the hurtles to buying my house are done now it is just waiting for closing on September 10th!

Congratulations!

I think I am going to buy this heater and a thermostat of some kind(need to do more research). I think I might add a low profile celling fan to help keep the temperature even throughout the room. the nice thing about this heater is it has wheels so when I am not doing things in the room I can keep it in the middle and then roll it to the side while I am in there.

I've owned two DeLonghI radiator heaters very similar to that one. I was very happy with them both. (I left one behind when moving and ended up buying a replacement later on.) I used them to heat a bedroom that didn't get enough heat from the main furnace. Both rooms were larger than the room you've described so I think it will do the job adequately. I'll warn you they can give off a bit of smell when you first start using them, but after a couple hours the smell goes away. They aren't digital so they should work fine with an external thermostat that simply turns them on and off.

 

I have been looking for ideas on a stingray aquarium. I don't want to have anything less than 4 foot by 8 foot for them. So I initially scrapped the idea. The other day I watch some videos on ponds and it got me thinking. So I think I am going to make a 8x4x4 pond with a 6x3 viewing window with an infinity edge glass. This will take the whole wall opposite the door to the room. I plan to do a sump on one side and a large pond canister on the other side.
I was thinking of using 4x6 lumber and stacking them up and using lag bolts to holed them together as well as some plates and corner brackets on the inside. Then attach the liner and cap it in a nice 2x8 with a routed edge. I would stain the whole thing with a nice grey stain.

As for fish:

Large school of congo tetras 50+
Marbled Motoro Stingray 3-5 just depends on size and availability and cost.
Mix of larger new world cichlids.
a large gourami (not a giant though)
Maybe a school of loaches probably clowns or yoyo if I can get them big enough

The pond would be about 900 gallons

This is an early planning stage and I know will cost about $1200-$1500 to build. and another $1800 for fish and probably about $50-60 a month to feed and care for. I would have this on an auto water change system and change about 10% of the water daily or more as I figure out the nitrate sweat spot.

As always please shoot holes in my idea I want to iron out the kinks long before I start my project and I want to plan the whole thing out in advance to reduce reworking plumbing and electrical.

 

Stacking 4x6s would be vastly more than you'd need. Build a frame from 4x4s and line it with 1" exterior plywood. You can dress up the outside with 1/4" ply. I'd maybe do 4x4s every two feet and put a 2x4 halfway in between. Even that is probably overkill.

If you go with the 4x6 idea, I'd hold the stack together with all-thread rod rather than a series of lag bolts holding each piece to the next. Using all-thread means having to drill holes in each piece that line up precisely, but you'll end up with something much less likely to fail. You'll have something binding the stack together as a whole. Plus you can use 3/4" or 1" all-thread and have vastly more shear strength than you would with a series of workable lag bolts.

 

I don't know anything about building, sorry
But I think that will look amazing and I can't wait to hear about it

 

Yeah I know the construction is over kill but the stacked 4x6 is the look I was going for. How thick do you think the glass would need to be on this I was thinking 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch since it won't be supported on the top but held in place by the water pressure and silicone. I don't think 4x4 will look good. So I was thinking two 4"x4" plates on each board and corner brackets. Or maybe I build it out of 2x4s and plywood and run 2x6 across the front for the look I am going for since I plan to cap the top and run storage wall to wall on both sides of the pond. you won't see anything but the top cap and the front boards.

I also just redid my drawing of my room more to scale and now I think after drawing it the plan may need to change from 6ft tanks to custom 5ft tanks or standard 110 4ft tanks. the space is getting tight around each tank. I like the bigger tanks for more swimming space for larger fish but maybe ill stick with smaller fish since ill have my African tank and my large pond that would be mostly American cichlids and stingrays with my favorite tetra. I am definitely going to do the pond and the 210 gallon tank first and then add tanks as I come up with ideas.

 

Oh, so you're going to use steel plates to connect the 4x6s to each other and lag bolt the plates in place. I didn't get that from the initial description. Definitely better. I think I'd still seriously consider running a couple piece of 3/4" all-thread down through all the pieces. Countersink top and bottom and you'll never know it's there, but you'll be able to snug the pieces up against each other really tight. Probably couldn't hurt to put some construction adhesive in between the pieces too. Still use the plates, but the rest will ensure there's no way it's coming apart.

 

So we are on the same page this is the build plan if I go with the 4x6 all around route.

8 foot back wall of pond will have three holes drilled from top to bottom. ( counter sunk at the top and bottom) all thread with a washer the size of the whole and a nut tightened as tight as I can get it. A steel plate between each board at each end and the middle. With small anchor bolts maybe only need 3 inch screws. Apply water proofing (probably just killz paint to seal the wood) on all sides to help prevent mold and warping.

The two 4 foot sides similar process to the back wall but two sets of all thread about 1/3 of the way in from both sides. And only 2 sets of steel plates on each board. Water proof only the inside. Stain the top and sides with a outdoor fence stain.

The front I will do two full length boards and six one foot prices on either side. There will be one all thread down each side with plates to secure the 1foot pieces then one small all thread in the middle. And one plate in the middle holding the bottom two boards.

To put the pieces together Is my sticking point. I would rather run the 8 foot pieces on the outside of the 4 foot ones. But I am not sure how to secure the corners. I was thinking maybe a running think corner plates from top to bottom on the inside but I'm not sure that will be enough. I don't want bolts showing on the front boards. If I ran the 8 foot pieces on the inside it would much easier because from the sides I could run lag bolts into the front plate.

Another idea I had was to put some plates on the outside but counter sink the plates into the wood with a Dremel tool or a router. This would only be to secure the corners but would take a very long time to do. Any better ideas would be appreciated. I really want this to be a tank and make it so if I ever had to move I could tear it apart into the 4 side pieces.

As for the glass I was thinking of placing this after the liner is secure. There would be six inches of overlap on each side of the window and run it from the floor to the top of the 4x6 boards.

Under the liner I planned on placing foam insulation tiles so that the floor temperature didn't transfer to the water.

 

For drilling the holes for the all-thread, I suggest most strongly the use of a drill press and a Forstner bit. If the holes are off angle by just the tiniest bit it will make it almost impossible to get the all-thread through. Been there, messed it up, have lots of scrap pieces in my garage to show for it. You can drill the holes a bit oversized to allow for some slop but the connection won't be quite as rigid since it will be only friction holding the pieces precisely in place and not shear resistance from the all-thread.

As for joining the corners, this would be perfect for a finger joint. You kind of weave the corners together. On the bottom layer the back piece extends to the outside of the side pieces and the side pieces stop at the front of the back piece. With the next board it's the opposite, the back piece goes only to the inside of the side pieces and the side pieces go to the back of the rear piece. You alternate like this all the way up. Bore holes down through the center of the joint and run all-thread through there and you'll have rock solid corners.

I'd do a top and bottom piece across the front too. That will give you something to secure the sides pieces to and also something to support the glass top and bottom. I don't know if it's the look you're going for, but it should be strong if you do the all-thread down the front corners like on the back. The front pieces would extend to the outside of the side pieces so the all-thread can tie it all together.

I don't think foam insulation directly under the liner will do much. It depends on the air in the foam to provide the insulation, and all that weight on top will crush it to nothing. You might as well just double up the vinyl liner.

I initially thought this was a crazy idea, but after looking into it I'm thinking it's not so crazy. Consider lining the bottom with 1" Schedule 40 PVC pipe. You'd build a bed of PVC laid tightly side by side. The tensile strength of 1" PVC is 580 pounds. That's the weight it takes hanging from the pipe to cause it to break. With concrete right under it and the weight spread evenly over the entire upper surface, I'd imagine it could support a lot more than 580 pounds. And that's per pipe. You'd have 75 pieces of pipe covering the bottom (assuming they're running front to back). Do something to trap the air inside the pipe and it should provide decent insulation. Bigger pipe would be stronger but it also costs quite a bit more. Looks like it would cost over $200 though. Not sure how else to do it cheaper.

You had asked about the thickness of the glass. I really don't know on that. You might want to check the "King of DIY" videos where he's building the concrete tank for his arrowanas and stingrays. You're talking about something roughly the same size.

 

Milescraft 1318 Drillmate Drill Guide with chuck do you think this will work I don't want to drop $150+ on a drill press.

 

I was also wondering about lights I would either like to mount something on the wall behind it or use ceiling lights. I want to grow pots of jungle Val and Amazon swords. These are not high light plants but I am also about 4 feet deep. And I also want the fish color to pop.

I plan to frame the sides to the left and right of the pond and have cabinet doors on them on top I was think it might be fun to do some plants for decorating and use the fish tank to water them I am wondering if they make light bulbs I could put in the ceiling (recessed lights I would prefer) strong enough to grow plants as there won't be any natural light

I was thinking it might be cool to have a TV mounted above the pond and the wall with the door have a couch instead of a rack.

 

Milescraft 1318 Drillmate Drill Guide with chuck do you think this will work I don't want to drop $150+ on a drill press.

The key will be whether it can handle the size of the lumber so you can drill all the way through from one side. You might want to ask around and see if anyone has one you can borrow, or check a few garage sales. The one I have is a hand-me-down from a friend who bought it at a garage sale and eventually realized he had no use for it. Do check that it will work with stock that large. I'm not sure mine could do what's needed for this particular job. I think its limit is about 4".

 

Look into half laps for your corners ..Hard to make them stronger without glue...

 

Ok so I am having some possibly catastrophic delays to buying the new house the buyers buying our house fell through.

I am having second thoughts about the direction I am going with the pond. I think I should build the pond as strong as possible and maybe tile the front face with a nice back splash tile or cover it in stained 2x6 boards. So my thought was using 4x4 posts with 1 feet gaps between them secure them to a 2x4 bottom and top plate with screws and with corner brackets. Then line both the inside and outside with 1inch solid sheets of plywood. This should be strong enough without over engineering it. Then I could cover the front face with a decorative facing of some kind. If anyone has a better or cheaper structure that would be strong enough for this build I am all ears.

 

First thought is you can save money by using 1/4" plywood on the outside. It's purely decorative. All the strength will be in the 2x4s and 4x4s and interior plywood sheeting. Maybe get cabinet grade if you're going to stain it or birch if you're going to paint.

I suggest using a 4x4 for the bottom plate and setting it outboard of the posts. There's going to be a lot of pressure pushing outward at the bottom. Running the posts to the bottom of the bottom plate means that pressure is on the plate, not on the fasteners connecting the posts to the plate. I'd get some very heavy steel angle pieces to put on the corners of the bottom plate. If you don't want to give up the extra 4" on the width of the wall, you could do half lap joints to connect the posts to the bottom plate. It won't be as strong but at least the force would be on the wood, not the fasteners. Some steel connector plates should beef up the strength enough.

 

I see what you mean about outward pressure. Do you think 2x6 outboard of the frame would be strong enough vs the 4x4 I also think I am going to put a 2x6 top cap with a center brace across the 8 foot span to help support the lids, lights, and add structural support.




I also have this for my stocking plan. The stingray choice I want is not on that site. I plan on getting 4 of each color variation of severum gold, red spot, red shoulder, and green. The blood parrots are a maybe but I'm still searching for low aggression cichlid I can put in it's place. I definitely want the electric blue acara. I do plan on having the outer rI'm lined with nice looking silk plants and drift wood. This would leave the middle area open swimming space for the stingrays and tetras. Any other ideas will be appreciated.

 

Just an update on the fish room:

Moved into the house and have been busy constructing shelves and various other projects around the house and the fish room is somewhat on hold till I get more space in the garage. The fish room has a very nice custom built work bench that I want to move into the garage and need room for that in the garage to move it up (So many boxes). I have done some moving of things in the room but not much. I Think I am going to simplify my plan because I found a second drain I can tap into to use. so I can easily hide the drain for the "pond build" and the west wall tank under the stairs. The east wall will have a rack of tanks that I can drain to the bathroom drain. So no drain pipes will show except maybe a few feet in a corner that you most likely won't see. As for the one supply water pipe I plan on tapping into the cold and hot water in the wall with a panel to a shower mixing valve. and one outlet line using 3/4" Pex. I will paint it the color of the walls and run it along the ground around the room tapping into it where I need. This will eliminate the need for the 6in false wall and save some money. One wall already has green board in place and the other has peg board on it. I will remove the peg board and replace it with green board. After that I will frame the two remaining walls and run a second circuit to the room so I have one for lighting (already in place) and a second one for equipment and outlets (20Amp breaker). The cement walls already have a killz sealant on them so that saves me some more money. The last thing before covering the walls would be insulation. Then I will green board the room texture and use an exterior paint to paint the room. The floors will be painted also.

My plan for the layout of tanks and such has changed. Here is the new simplified plan. The pond will be the main feature of the room consuming the whole 12 usable feet of wall post construction. I will explain my latest plan for how I will build that in a minute. The pond will be running the entire north wall. This will leave 8 feet from the pond to the south wall on the east and west wall but I want at least 2 feet between the pond and the next tank. So that drops me down to 6 feet. on either side. On the west wall I want to put a 5 foot tank and stand probably a 100 gallon tank. This was original a concern because of the door but the door is a bi-fold door the opens out into the hall. on the east wall I want to put a 4 foot rack with two levels. One level that will hold a large tank like a 75 or 90 gallon tank and another level (bottom) that will extend out 30" and hold three 29 gallon tanks. The south wall I plan to put seating such as a love seat and my son's 20 gallon hermit crab tank. Also I will have overhead storage above the loves seat with custom built cabinets for food and various equipment items as I always have more than I want but less than I need of extra supplies. This will then total the volume of water in the room at about 1300 gallons.

If you have been following this thread you might remember I am getting a 7ft by 2ft by 2ft tank that has 210 gallon capacity. I got permission to place this tank in the downstairs living room on the other side of the stairs and allows me easy access to that same drain under the stairs.

Onto the pond build: I decided to go back to the timber build. But my plan is to use 4x4 posts as I can get them for $7-8 each for 8ft posts and I will do the staggering of the corners so they overlap each other. I will then countersink lags into each timber below it with 4.5 inch long 3/4 inch head lag bolts This should create plenty of rigidity for the corners and sides but I will wrap the inside with 1/2 in plywood for extra dispersion of force. I scrapped the idea of an infinity edge glass viewing window in place of a larger viewing window based on how thick the glass would need to be in order to make it strong enough to handle a 7 foot span. I have young kids and don't want to risk the use of tempered glass and 1.5in thick float glass for the size I needed would run me over $2000 delivered. So the new plan is to run two 4x4 across the bottom and top leaving 14 inches less than the total height of the tank. To make it uniform I will also leave 7 inches on both sides so the viewing window will be 82" x 34". The acrylic pane I plan to buy will be 7ft by 3ft by 1in thick. To reinforce the whole viewing window and to make it look nicer I will frame the whole viewing window with 2x4's this will shrink the viewing window by another 1.5 inches on each side but give a total of 2 and 1/2 inches of acrylic to wood contact on each side. inside the pond I will frame out the outer edge of the acrylic with 2x4's to give it a place to sit and also give me more peace of mind with an extra place to run silicon to help prevent leaks. I will coat the 2x4s with pond liner epoxy "paint" and run the actual liner flat underneath to prevent wrinkles. after the panel is in place I will then cut the liner and pinch it under the 2x4 frame and silicone between the frame and the acrylic for extra waterproofing. this will leave me with an inner area of the pond being about 8ft x 4ft minus the viewing window thickness and the frame around it. I have spent a ton of time pondering how to best build this pond and I believe this is my best option without breaking the bank. Estimated cost + 10% is about $1900 for a 8ft by 4ft by 4ft tank "pond". To have one custom built out of glass never mind being impossible to get it into the place I want it would cost almost $20,000 and weigh 1900 pounds empty.

As always please provide as much constructive criticism as possible. Thank you all for all the input thus far!

 

Excellent! Please post pics as the build proceeds.

 

Excellent! Please post pics as the build proceeds.

I will take a picture of the room as is for a baseline starting point. I have two 10 gallon tanks, a 29 gallon tank, a 20 long for hermit crabs, and a 55 gallon tank in there now. I will cluster them in the middle of the room and drape a blanket over them while I am actively doing construction.

So with this volume of water and an insulated room I am trying to decide if I should keep using submersible heaters. I have 2 300 watt, 1 200 watt, and 3 50 watt heaters. I was thinking of just getting a couple 300 watt inline heaters for each tank and some inkbird controllers. I am more or less worried about the fire risk a space heater comes with and it takes up real estate in the room.

I plan to keep all the tanks 100% lid coverage and ill have a bunch of scrap 1in think acrylic because the company I found locally sells it by their standard sheet and cuts it to size for $10 a cut this will give me 1 piece that is 1ft by 8ft and a second that is 1ft by 3ft on 18in tanks I could cut that to be a lid with a hinged 4 inch opening to feed into. The nice thing about that is I can drill and make the cutouts specific to my tank's needs. I will hold off on buying a dehumidifier until I have problems with humidity in the room. I may not need it considering my house is always less than 20% humidity unless I am running a humidifier. At what % humidity will it become a problem?

 

I wrote the previous post about 3 hours ago and forgot to hit submit. During the 3 hours I was researching heating options.

I will effectively have 3 individual systems in the room running on 3 different sumps. Since the room will be insulated and the door closed most the time I feel it will stay warm not requiring the heaters to run as much. I estimate the room to sit @ about 72 degrees since we keep the house at 70 degrees most year around and the furnace is ducted into the room already.

The pond will be about 700-800 gallons but it will have insulation on 4 of the 6 sides and I was thinking two 300 watt heaters would be enough to keep it @ about 74-76 degrees.

The rack will have 150-200 gallons and I think one 300 watt heater can handle that rack.

The single 120 gallon 5 foot tank will run one 300 watt heater.

All combined + the heat lamp on the hermit crab tank will have 1200watts of heating and all of them will run inkbird controllers to improve efficiency and safety. It is definitely more expensive upfront cost with 3 inkbirds and 4 300 watt heaters but I don't think it will be much more efficient to heat the room with a 1500 watt space heater. My electric bill might be a tiny bit more but a house fire and possibly death is not worth the difference. The inkbird controllers have over current and high temperature shut offs to (possibly???) protect the fish in case of a heater failure. If I need to run a dehumidifier I will and that will heat the room as well.

From what I read people running similar setups to me say a dehumidifier will raise the electric bill ~$10-30/month and the heaters about ~$30-60 a month.

Let me know if I am way off base with these numbers but I feel I am in the ballpark. I can also control the humidifier with an humidity controller to keep the room at a reasonable humidity level and save money.

 

Just a thought here off the top of my head. The heaters and the dehumidifier will be somewhat working against each other. The dehumidifier will cool the room, then you'll be running the heaters to make up for that heat loss. In the winter you probably won't need to do much about the humidity as the rest of the house will be dry, at least if it's anything like my house, and will suck up all that humidity. Worst case a simple fan to blow the humid air into the rest of the house will probably be welcome relief.

In the summer you might do better to vent the humidity to outside rather than trying to condense it and pour it down the drain. You can get a radon fan from Home Depot for a little over $100. You can set it up to pull air from the fish room and blow it outside. They claim to be "energy efficient". I couldn't find a wattage on the ones I checked but it's basically a small fan in a weatherproof housing so I doubt it would draw much power. Certainly it will be cheaper than running a dehumidifier. You could probably wire it up to a humidity sensor so it only runs when the humidity is over X%.

 

I have read multiple places that dehumidifiers heat the air in the end
"Basically, the room-temperature humid air enters the dehumidifier, where it’s then cooled to its dew point, which results in its releasing its moisture. This dried air is then heated by the combination of latent heat of condensation, which is a natural result of the process, and by circulating through the condenser where heat is exchanged from it to the air. There’s also some additional heat generated by the dehumidifier’s air compressor. The overall result is that the air going back into the room might be warmer than it was going in, usually around 10 to 15 degrees."
I don't say this so be rude I just want to make sure I am not mistaken. If I am incorrect I apologise.

As far as the humidity in the winter you are correct it is so dry that my skin cracks and my lips split. I could probably just open the door since the furnace is less than 6ft away from the door to the fish room. In the summer I could crack the window during the day. I am confident there will be trial and error when it comes to the fine details. What helps me a bunch is to put my plan in writing and read it a few times. Then all the constructive criticism helps me for more ideas and helps me make more educated decisions.

Edit: Maybe I failed to include that I would not vent the dehumidifier to the outdoor so the result would be heating. It is kinda like a window AC unit if you plug that in without exhausting it out the window it actually heats an area not cools it.

 

Even as I was writing that I was thinking along the same lines. The dehumidifier is basically an air conditioner where both the hot and the cold sides are in the room. Due to the inefficiency of the process, it logically seems like it should be creating net heat. What I actually wrote was more based on my personal recollection from many years ago when we had a dehumidifier in our basement. The air coming from it always felt cool. So it's a situation where my recollection of personal experience conflicts with what I logically believe must be the case.

I'd still seriously consider the radon ventilator. It will be cheaper to purchase and much cheaper to run. It would have the side benefit of pulling fresh(er) air from the rest of the house into the fish room. I've been meaning to get one of these and install it in my basement. I don't have radon, as far as I know, but, like I said, it's basically a good fan in a weatherproof housing. You can even mount it outside if you want to keep the noise to a minimum. All you'd have in the house is a 4" PVC pipe. (I first read about this when investigating what turned out to be a very expensive basement ventilation system intended to keep down humidity and typical basement smells. Many people claimed a radon ventilation system that cost one-tenth or less would do essentially the same job.)

 

Not to state the obvious, but you mentioned the large tank you are getting from your friend housed a snake. Are you sure it's an aquarium and not a reptile enclosure?

 

JayH The goal is to not run one at all as well as keeping my power bill low a priority.

Morpheus1967 Yes he purchased is for a saltwater aquarium about 18 years ago he ran salt water in it for about 4 years and had a death wave and gave up on the hobby. He then converted it to a snake enclosure. I do plan on re-sealing it since it has original silicon as is almost 20 years old. It is 7ft by 2ft by 2ft with 1 inch thick glass. Any recommendations on how to recondition an old tank are welcome though outside resealing it I plan to run a light bleach solution then a vinegar solution and then clean it with just water 3-4 times. I am going to boil all the bio media in the sump and replace all the plumbing. I may even fill it up and run the sump with a vinegar solution trough the pumps and plumbing just to give it a good clean.

 

Zach B. , a gallon of Prime shouldn't cost that much.

Kensfish.com has it for $74.

Also, you should probably consider Seachem's Safe, the powdered version of Prime. 1/4 tsp treats 300 gallons and a kilo costs about $29 @ Ken's (LINK)

I get Safe, Prime and a lot of my other supplies and fish food from Ken's. No tax and free s&h on orders over $49. I love that place!

Regarding your water change system, look up Steve Poland Aquatics. I believe Steve had a couple of videos on his water change system in his basement.

While we don't have basements in my part of the country, my recommendation would be to invest on infrastructure upgrades as much as you can first (electrical, gas lines, insulation, drains, water supply, etc etc). It may cost more to do it all at first before starting the fish room build, but that is better than dealing with a room that is too hot/cold/humid depending on the season.

I just started using Safe to. Much more cost effective. Only drawback is that it doesn’t remove metals. I’ve found no issues though.

 

I had a long discussion with my wife last night and together we made the decision to not do the stingray pond . Lots of planning time spent but the main reason why was that it is way to expensive of a start up cost and a risk because of the DIY nature. I am confident that it would work and not cause problems but as with any DIY project things cost more than you ever think if you are not skilled in it. I will draw up a new plan and post in the next couple days.

I am sad that I won't have rays but I think it is for the best.