Fish "rescues"

I have not been a member here too long, so I hope this thread does not get me flamed.

But......... I have noticed a couple of threads of people saying they are rescuing fish from some of the big box ,and retail stores. I realize that buying fish from a store that is not properly caring for them seems like a good thing to do, but in the long run, you are contributing to them continuing to mistreat fish,IMO.

I think a better solution to this problem would be to try a inform the stores that they are not properly keeping fish. The best way to do this would be to write letters. Telling the floor help,or even the managers that work there will generally not get positive results. Letting the white collar workers of these stores may. They are out to make money. If they find out some of their stores are losing costumers due to the improper care of their fish,maybe something will change.

But until there is a change made,purchasing these fish in not really rescuing them,but encouraging them to restock their tanks,and betta cups,and continuing to mistreat them.

This is all just my opinion. But I am interested to see what some others think about this too.

 

You read my mind. I've been thinking this all week. Glad you posted it, it's been said before too. When I think of "rescuing" I think of fish in bad homes, fish that need to go in bigger tank, fish people can't keep, etc. For instance my CAE, somone rescued him from being fish food at Lfs, I couldn't give him a good home and his fate was doomed. Lol

 

I can understand your point.

Sad to say, I don't think you will ever go into a fish store and find every betta with his own 5 gal. tank. It would not be cost or space effective. Before you ever see that, you will see no bettas at all. Which is either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you look at it.

While purchasing them may encourage them to restock, unless the whole fish buying community quits buying or wanting bettas, this will always be a problem.

You can look at it in one of two ways, either you are contributing to the problem, or you gave one a good home, and at least for him, it was a rescue.

 

In my opinion, saying you "rescued" a betta from Walmart, Petco, Petsmart or even the LFS is like saying you "rescued" a puppy from a pet store. Yes, they are in deplorable conditions, but purchasing an animal from a place like that just makes room for one (or two) more.

That being said, all of my bettas have been "cup babies," mainly because that's all there is around me unless you want to pay $50 to have a betta shipped to you (I'm sorry, but that's a bit out of my price range).

However, I think we should call a spade a spade. It's not a rescue, it's a purchase. End of story.

 

You're not the first to mention this concern. There are many who feel strongly one way or another about this issue (and just as many others that are strongly conflicted).

I'm on the side of those with a conflicted sense of ethics. I have a very difficult time seeing bettas in those cups when I know I could offer them a beautiful home. I don't have access to bettas elsewhere in my area, nor can I afford the cost of shipping a betta from a reputable breeder. YET, I do not like the idea of supporting a business that practices animal cruelty. I do not eat meat. I do not wear meat. I eat eggs purchased locally from cruelty-free farming practices. And so forth. I cannot see how I could support a store that sells fish in inhumane conditions without being an immense hypocrite who perpetuates cruelty.

I tend to avoid the issue by not owning these type of fish, and educating others on their proper needs whenever I have a chance. (My mother-in-law's vase betta is receiving a heated, filtered, cycled new tank for Christmas. )

I currently have a betta that I adopted off CL from a vase owner. Since I'm not giving money to any stores by adopting off CL, I do not feel conflicted about these types of adoptions. In my opinion, this is one of the few legitimate ways to "rescue" fish.

 

I consider the fish I got today to be rescues. I shelled out 25 bucks for a tank not worth ten, just because the poor four fish in had been riding around in a 6 gallon tank, with one gallon of water, four SEVEN hours! I was like, fine whatever, give me the tank, grrrr.... not what I wanted, and I think they're cichlids to boot, double grrrr... goig to need to rehome them, and omg, he's been keeping them in this tiny tank for MONTHS, wow, cruel...

 

Sad to say, I don't think you will ever go into a fish store and find every betta with his own 5 gal. tank. It would not be cost or space effective. Before you ever see that, you will see no bettas at all. Which is either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you look at it.

That is the thing with betta.Stores keep them in the cups,because they will survive(for the most part),and they can keep more of them that way. I have talked to the owners of a couple of the good LFS where I live,and they tell me they feed theirs every third day,and change the water every other day with RO water. I suppose this is the best they can do with them,and still make a profit. I know two big box stores around me that I go to, change the water every other day,and feed them twice a week.Again, I suppose this is the best they feel they can do,and still make money.

In my opinion, saying you "rescued" a betta from Walmart, Petco, Petsmart or even the LFS is like saying you "rescued" a puppy from a pet store. Yes, they are in deplorable conditions, but purchasing an animal from a place like that just makes room for one (or two) more.

That being said, all of my bettas have been "cup babies," mainly because that's all there is around me unless you want to pay $50 to have a betta shipped to you (I'm sorry, but that's a bit out of my price range).

However, I think we should call a spade a spade. It's not a rescue, it's a purchase. End of story.

I agree. The only betta I have ever had,have come from cups.I have a few flowerhorns that I have had shipped to me from Thailand. But with the cost of the transhipper, a $50 fish,ends up costing 3 times that. I am just not that into betta to pay that much to have it shipped. Cichlids on the other hand,I am. So I guess it depends on what you are into.

I tend to avoid the issue by not owning these type of fish, and educating others on their proper needs whenever I have a chance. (My mother-in-law's vase betta is receiving a heated, filtered, cycled new tank for Christmas. )

That is the point I have gotten to with betta. As beautiful as they are,I just won't contribute to the poor conditions they are kept in. But who to say the ones from overseas are not kept in cups until someone here buys him or her.

I like that you got you mother-in-law a tank for Christmas! That's awesome!

 

I agree with bassbonediva. When I saw the thread title I chuckled a little on the inside because the whole 'rescue' scenario is kinda silly considering that generally the big box stores will stick a replacement, or even twice as many 'rescues' in the place of the ones that you 'save'. So all in all, it's a win of a small battle that ultimately loses ground in the war.

 

I agree completely. The only time I feel like it is a "rescue" is when you get it from someone who has mistreated it, not from the store. Chances are if the people are giving it away, they aren't getting anymore, unlike the stores.

Also, I really disapprove of "rescuing" when you can't provide adequate homes. It isn't a rescue to bring home a betta and put him in a 1 gallon tank, even if it is bigger than a cup. He will still be just as unhappy as he was in that little cup, and you will be subjecting more bettas to the troubles

Sometimes you can rescue fish from the pet store though-- I semi-rescued a little sparkling gourami yesterday. I was only going to get 5, but the store only had 6, so I saved the last little one from a lonely life all by himself. They rarely have the sparklers (this is the first time I have ever seen them!) so I have no doubt that he would have been housed all by his little lonesome self.

Just my :

 

also, I really Disapprove Of "rescuing" When You Can't Provide Adequate Homes. It Isn't A Rescue To Bring Home A Betta And Put HI'm In A 1 Gallon Tank, Even If It Is Bigger Than A Cup. He Will Still Be Just As Unhappy As He Was In That Little Cup, And You Will Be Subjecting More Bettas To The Troubles .

+ 1,000,000,000,000,000!!!!!!!

 

I do agree although I have brought home a halfmoon I've always loved. He was ill at the time but now he's feeling much better and more active in his own 10 gallon tank. Sometimes you just can't help bringing a fish home, although I do not want to support those keeping these bettas in little cups and containers.

 

I do agree although I have brought home a halfmoon I've always loved. He was ill at the time but now he's feeling much better and more active in his own 10 gallon tank. Sometimes you just can't help bringing a fish home, although I do not want to support those keeping these bettas in little cups and containers.

Yes, I agree. But it is not a rescue, its a purchase Its perfectly fine to get bettas from the pet store, but you aren't truely rescuing

 

My LFS keeps their plants in 10 and 20 gallon tanks(there are probably 10 of them) each tank has 1 male betta in it. I thought that was pretty awesome.
Carol

 

yeah, I didn't really consider it as a rescue. atleast he's happy, doesn't matter to me whether it was a rescue or purchase.

 

I think a lot of the younger crowd feels thay are saving the fish. That's good, they are giving a pet a good home and learning to take care of it. But this is a marketing gimic. Feel sorry for a fish, buy fish. I have only seen one store keep them in 1 gallon containers.

 

My LFS keeps their plants in 10 and 20 gallon tanks(there are probably 10 of them) each tank has 1 male betta in it. I thought that was pretty awesome.
Carol

That's wonderful!

 

My LFS keeps their plants in 10 and 20 gallon tanks(there are probably 10 of them) each tank has 1 male betta in it. I thought that was pretty awesome.
Carol

That's awesome.

 

I agree completely. The only time I feel like it is a "rescue" is when you get it from someone who has mistreated it, not from the store. Chances are if the people are giving it away, they aren't getting anymore, unlike the stores.

Also, I really disapprove of "rescuing" when you can't provide adequate homes. It isn't a rescue to bring home a betta and put him in a 1 gallon tank, even if it is bigger than a cup. He will still be just as unhappy as he was in that little cup, and you will be subjecting more bettas to the troubles

Sometimes you can rescue fish from the pet store though-- I semi-rescued a little sparkling gourami yesterday. I was only going to get 5, but the store only had 6, so I saved the last little one from a lonely life all by himself. They rarely have the sparklers (this is the first time I have ever seen them!) so I have no doubt that he would have been housed all by his little lonesome self.

Just my :

But most stores are mistreating the fish...
In fact- if you give them a suitable home you are saving the fish therefore rescuing it.

They aren't going to stop selling this fish because the majority of people will still buy them. You can rescue them and make their life suitable and happy.

Letting them die in little cups is a better option?

By the way- I'm not from the younger crowd.

 

They aren't going to stop selling this fish because the majority of people will still buy them. You can rescue them and make their life suitable and happy.

The longest journey begins with a single step.
To presume that one consumer can't make a difference is admitting defeat.

Personally, I don't buy bettas from any place that keeps their fish in cups. I prefer to give my money to the places that treat their fish right.

I can see the reasoning for the "rescue" side, too. I'm just offering a reason for the opposing viewpoint.

 

even though the single fish will be happy, more are still going to suffer.I admit not buying them is a better option. it'd be better to clear up the bettas like small spaces and such...

 

I consider the fish I got today to be rescues. I shelled out 25 bucks for a tank not worth ten, just because the poor four fish in had been riding around in a 6 gallon tank, with one gallon of water, four SEVEN hours! I was like, fine whatever, give me the tank, grrrr.... not what I wanted, and I think they're cichlids to boot, double grrrr... goig to need to rehome them, and omg, he's been keeping them in this tiny tank for MONTHS, wow, cruel...

Cichlids or not, they would need to be rehomed. Nothing but a betta (IMO) would be suitable for a six gallon. What do these look like?

On Topic:

Rescuing a fish from a store is possible. However, it is a short sighted rescue. One fish is happier, but three more are thrown in his place.

Rescuing from others is better. They aren't selling for profit, and thus likely won't buy more immediately after.

About Bettas:
My local PetClub (a big box pet store shockingly) keeps their Bettas in tanks with fish they won't shred. Guppies (with plain tails, not the long dangly type. Their tails only sag/droop - in terms of extra size, not actually sagging- in comparison to the normal feeder guppy fantail, and neons and I think a few others. The lady in charge of the fish section is very cool. Actually keeps fish, unlike most big box fish section managers. Is smart about what goes with what, and the tanks all look very nice.

That is the thing with betta.Stores keep them in the cups,because they will survive(for the most part),and they can keep more of them that way. I have talked to the owners of a couple of the good LFS where I live,and they tell me they feed theirs every third day This is the same as twice a week.,and change the water every other day This is three times a week. with RO water. I suppose this is the best they can do with them,and still make a profit. I know two big box stores around me that I go to, change the water every other day Three times a week.,and feed them twice a week This is the same as every three days..Again, I suppose this is the best they feel they can do,and still make money.

Your LFS and Big Boxes are doing the same thing with their Bettas. Of course, the Big Boxes likely have deceased or diseased fish in their tanks, whereas your LFS may not.

 

Cichlids or not, they would need to be rehomed. Nothing but a betta (IMO) would be suitable for a six gallon. What do these look like?

I took them to the LFS, and they were indeed african cichlids, so, they stayed there while I went home

I am going to use my 6 gallon for ghost shrimp only, I am thinking ten would be ok. They are so cute!

 

In my opinion, saying you "rescued" a betta from Walmart, Petco, Petsmart or even the LFS is like saying you "rescued" a puppy from a pet store. Yes, they are in deplorable conditions, but purchasing an animal from a place like that just makes room for one (or two) more.

However, I think we should call a spade a spade. It's not a rescue, it's a purchase. End of story.

+ 1 million

Amen!

Period!

Also, I really disapprove of "rescuing" when you can't provide adequate homes. It isn't a rescue to bring home a betta and put him in a 1 gallon tank, even if it is bigger than a cup. He will still be just as unhappy as he was in that little cup, and you will be subjecting more bettas to the troubles

Amen again!!! You guys keep this up, I'm going to have to start going to church daily!

But most stores are mistreating the fish...
In fact- if you give them a suitable home you are saving the fish therefore rescuing it.

I respectfully disagree. If you look at it your way, then every lfs who doesn't keep a jack dempsey in its own 55 gallon tank is mistreating fish. LFS have no choice but to keep fish the way they do. Plus, you don't see the daily traffic in the store and all the fish that are sold and then replaced. Sometimes, I think that people believe that it's just always the same fish in those tanks, year after year.

I've been involved in dog rescue for over 15 years. That, my friend, is rescue. Buying a fish from a store is not.

 

Ok then let's shut down pet stores since JD's and every single thing else are being mistreated.
Are there enough fish breeders to sustain the fish keeping industry? Maybe, maybe not...
It's ridiculous to say that if you don't buy your Betta's from cups- it's automatically going to stop. It's not- there are enough people out there who buy them.

It's the same concept with dogs...buying a dog from a pet shop which tons of people do, imo is a puppy mill rescue.
So are we to let puppies and dogs die in pet shops?

How many years have people been asked to adopt dogs instead of buy them- yet they are still milled and still bought.
If I saw a dog in a pet shop that looked visibly sick and I could afford it or work out a deal- then I would do that. How would that not be considered a rescue considered it was probably battered in a puppy mill or does a dog have to be in a shelter for it to be a rescue? Maybe it's their fur?

Where is the rescue/purchase line drawn?
I adopted my dog from a shelter...ya know what that cost? 250 dollars? Now was he a purchase?



Either way- these are rescued animals. If you all don't see it that way then it's your thing.

 

Ok then let's shut down pet stores since JD's and every single thing else are being mistreated.
Are there enough fish breeders to sustain the fish keeping industry? Maybe, maybe not...
It's ridiculous to say that if you don't buy your Betta's from cups- it's automatically going to stop. It's not- there are enough people out there who buy them.

It's the same concept with dogs...buying a dog from a pet shop which tons of people do, imo is a puppy mill rescue.
So are we to let puppies and dogs die in pet shops?

How many years have people been asked to adopt dogs instead of buy them- yet they are still milled and still bought.
If I saw a dog in a pet shop that looked visibly sick and I could afford it or work out a deal- then I would do that. How would that not be considered a rescue considered it was probably battered in a puppy mill or does a dog have to be in a shelter for it to be a rescue? Maybe it's their fur?

Where is the rescue/purchase line drawn?
I adopted my dog from a shelter...ya know what that cost? 250 dollars? Now was he a purchase?



Either way- these are rescued animals. If you all don't see it that way then it's your thing.

I think the whole point was that in buying from the places that practice these methods only gives them the revenue to continue to do it more, so you may win a small battle by saving an animal but you put several more in its place by doing so.

Pet stores are driven by sales. If enough people write letters and leave complaints/comments about how they refuse to purchase from a store because of their deplorable conditions, and it causes someone in upper management takes notice, then something might be done. However, it means little if no one is actually practicing what they preach. If people are still 'rescuing' poor little fish, then sales are still up and no change is needed. Who cares what a few people say when everyone is still buying the stock anyway?

You could argue that 'well the general public is going to keep buying them anyway". We are the general public, If hobbyists made a concerted move to stop buying from certain stores and made it known to them the reason why, then I think things would begin to change. We cannot let the 'general public' dictate our morality or value system, and doing damage control by cleaning up (pet rescues from retail stores) the messes caused by them is not going to fix the problem.

 

Let's remember to be polite and respectful to everyone's opinions, even if we don't share them.

We can agree to disagree

 

I guess so BB...since I'm not sure I can get a picture of where the line is drawn.

A big dog put into a cage too small is considered a rescue but the same doesn't apply to fish unfortunately.

 

I guess so BB...since I'm not sure I can get a picture of where the line is drawn.

A big dog put into a cage too small is considered a rescue but the same doesn't apply to fish unfortunately.

Personally, I can see both sides of the picture so I just let my heart guide me in individual situations and respect everyone's right to their own opinions. We have both pet store bettas and bettas from breeders in our home. No judging either side here

I'm going to go a bit off topic here, but we also have a rescue dog and a dog from a breeder. When asked, I make recommendations based on a person's experience and needs.

 

Personally, I can see both sides of the picture so I just let my heart guide me in individual situations and respect everyone's right to their own opinions. We have both pet store bettas and bettas from breeders in our home. No judging either side here

I'm going to go a bit off topic here, but we also have a rescue dog and a dog from a breeder. When asked, I make recommendations based on a person's experience and needs.

Nice way to put it and it makes total sense.

If breeder fish weren't so expensive I would totally go with it. 35-50 bucks for a Betta is just a bit steep for me unless of course I'm making the shipping worth my while and buying a bunch of fish- LOL- since I aspire to have my house like yours one day.

Anyway- good way to put it all in perspective. I too respect everyone's opinion. In a perfect world rescues wouldn't be needed with any animal. Sadly it's not the case.

The thing is to rectify this whole situation- is to open up a pet shop of your own and focus more on the aspects of fishkeeping to the public and educate them- you might have to bite a buck or 2 but at least you could educate those who need it and make a profit off of those who need a good LFS- lord knows we need more good ones out there.

 

The thing is to rectify this whole situation- is to open up a pet shop of your own and focus more on the aspects of fishkeeping to the public and educate them- you might have to bite a buck or 2 but at least you could educate those who need it and make a profit off of those who need a good LFS- lord knows we need more good ones out there.

That's one of my long term goals =)

 

I'm going to go a bit off topic here, but we also have a rescue dog and a dog from a breeder. When asked, I make recommendations based on a person's experience and needs.

This was a good off topic comment IMO. I am getting 2 basset hound puppies from a breeder around the first of the year(can't wait).They are 250 miles away from me.The breeder is awesome,and it is worth the drive.
There is also a animal shelter not too far from my house that I spent months stopping by looking for the right dog for me. I could not find it. They always went to someone one who applied for them before I did. In a few years,after my pups are adults, I will again search for my shelter,or rescue dog.

That's one of my long term goals =)

Good for you. I hope that goal is realized some day soon.

 

A big dog put into a cage too small is considered a rescue but the same doesn't apply to fish unfortunately.

Actually, precisely the same applies here.
If you buy a dog from a puppy mill-run petstore, you're encouraging that pet store to buy puppy mill dogs.
If you adopt a dog that had previously been a stray, even if that pet store makes a profit, then you're not encouraging the pet store to buy puppy mill dogs, you're encouraging them to rescue animals.

The same goes with fish. If you're buying a fish from a friend who keeps a betta in a terrible little vase, then I'd call that a true rescue. However, when you buy a cup betta from Walmart, Petsmart, or Petco, you're just making space on their shelf for them to order another one during the next shipment.

I can still see the wish to do this, to give one of the poor little guys a chance to survive. However, the fact that the cycle is being encouraged shouldn't be ignored.

 

That's one of my long term goals =)

Good luck Jeta- I wish you all the best and hope it happens for you!

 

Actually, precisely the same applies here.
If you buy a dog from a puppy mill-run petstore, you're encouraging that pet store to buy puppy mill dogs. If you adopt a dog that had previously been a stray, even if that pet store makes a profit, then you're not encouraging the pet store to buy puppy mill dogs, you're encouraging them to rescue animals.

The same goes with fish. If you're buying a fish from a friend who keeps a betta in a terrible little vase, then I'd call that a true rescue. However, when you buy a cup betta from Walmart, Petsmart, or Petco, you're just making space on their shelf for them to order another one during the next shipment.

I can still see the wish to do this, to give one of the poor little guys a chance to survive. However, the fact that the cycle is being encouraged shouldn't be ignored.

BINGO!!! Oh my gosh, you quite literally took the words in my head and formed them into a cognitive response..... that tickled, you know.

 

My wife and I did just what jetajockey is going for and opened our own store in June , and I find it hard to believe how misinformed a lot of people are about the fish they are wanting to purchase. We have a stand built with 6 10 gallon tanks just for our Bettas and people often tell me I am waisting space by putting 1 fish in a tank and it drives me nuts sometimes.Then they ask if we carry goldfish bowls to put the betta in. which we don't the smallest we carry is 5 gallon tanks and I often tell them that would be good for the fish, some purchase it some walk out , anyway back on topic I also agree the fish are purchases not rescues. For every one we "rescue" they replace with another and make money in the process.

 

I would be honored to shop at your store. Bless you for doing it right!

 

I agree and when I bought the fish I knew I was only encouraging them to restock which is l what they did. Some of them spend months in those tiny cramped sterile cups... I plan on writing walmart asap.

 

The longest journey begins with a single step.
To presume that one consumer can't make a difference is admitting defeat.

Personally, I don't buy bettas from any place that keeps their fish in cups. I prefer to give my money to the places that treat their fish right.

I can see the reasoning for the "rescue" side, too. I'm just offering a reason for the opposing viewpoint.

Opposing viewpoints are fine and I respect them. I have made a difference in my LFS. If I was in the market for another Betta then I'd probably check out their stock.

I'm also an animal lover and activist and I just find it funny that people can't see the other side is all. More emphasis is placed on furry creatures than cold blooded animals and it's interesting to me.

But are they really in danger in no kill shelters? No not really- so I guess adopting an animal from a no kill shelter is a purchase as well just to keep in fair.

 

This is a tough issue, I feel a couple different ways about it because I can see the good and the bad in a lot of peoples views on the subject!

I agree that its not really a rescue if you buy the betta, there's no way around the fact that paying for the fish is giving the store money which is saying to them "Hey! It doesn't matter how badly we take care of our fish because people will still pay for them!" And that's not a message that you really want to give out, I consider paying for a "rescue" a sympathy purchase.

But I also agree that no matter how you end up with the fish: Buy it, demand it for free, steal it (Bad idea, don't do it!!) you're still making room for another fish to take its place.

Most stores, at least the big ones like walmart, petco, petsmart ect. don't lose money on dead fish, they take a tally a couple times a day of the fish that have died and at the end of every week they send it to the supplier who reimburses them for the dead fish.

So what should a person do? Well getting the fish for free sends a message, not all stores will give you a betta, even a dying one, for free, but some will if they don't think it will survive any way, and that they do lose money on.

But I feel the best thing to do is try and get them to change their ways, don't take all the fish away, find a way to get the fish better taken care of in the store, its not easy, trust me but it is possible!!

 

But are they really in danger in no kill shelters? No not really- so I guess adopting an animal from a no kill shelter is a purchase as well just to keep in fair.

No, but the next animal in line is in danger. I had a cat living in my neighborhood. I could easily catch it, but all of the local shelters were full. I didn't want to turn it over to the local Humane Society (which is anything but), so I let it be outside. Sadly, it died a few weeks later.

This is the same kind of thing we're talking about with the fish rescues; looking not only at the immediate effect of the action, and seeing potential ripple effects we can have.