Fish Not Doing Good. Water Is Fine

My betta fish has been sitting on the bottom of the tank since yesterday morning not really moving much. He gets up and swims every once in a while but he has mainly just been sitting. Most of the time hes literally just sitting on the bottom, he dosent even flap his fins or anything, the only reason I know hes still alive is because I can see his gills moving. He is in a 5.5 gallon uncycled tank but Ive been keeping a very close eye on water parameters and everything is coming back fine.

-Yesterday morning I thought PH had went up but after re testing last night it was at 7.6 which its been at for months now.
-The tank is heated to a toasty 80 degrees. It varies a little every once in a while but it never gets below 78 or above 82
-Ammonia was at 0 ppm last night and it is now at .25 ppm
-Nitrites are at zero and have been for almost a week now
-I did a water change half a week ago so I'm sure nitrates are fine
-KH/GH are between 50 and 100 ppm, probably closer to 50 as it took four drops to change color
-I use the API test tube test kits, not stripes

Some other things to note.
-Tank is not cycled.
-I usually never have the filter going as its too strong for my betta but about a week ago I turned it back on and its been running since then. Currently I run it submerged completely underwater as it less ins the output
-My betta only ate like three flakes last night. This morning he ate quiet a few. Other than this hes been eating normally
-His fins seem droopy, they always seem droopy but more so recently.
-Theres a weird white film on the top of the water. It popped up three days ago and has gotten better since then. The white film "moves" when I throw flakes in showing me clear normal looking aquarium water. I'm not sure what's causing it
-I did add beneficial bacteria from a bag to try and get a cycle started again only to one night forget to plug the filter back in (I turn it off during feeding times). I'm thinking maybe that's where the film came from but again I'm not sure? Its marineland bacteria, Ive used it before without a problem
-I did a 50% water change maybe four or five days ago because ammonia got to 1 ppm. I use a betta conditioner but also dosed my tank with prime.
-Hes been having good and bad days, I figured it was because of stress but now I'm not sure because hes currently at the worst Ive seen him and everything is okay right now . This all started when his heater died and he started floating on the top of the tank. Since then everything has been repaired and water parameters have been watched like a hawk but hes still not doing well. Ive only had him for four months so I can't imagine hes old. Today I'm going out to buy him a sponge filter and a 10 gallon tank. I'm unsure if Ill put him in the ten gallon tank anytime soon as I don't want to stress him out anymore, but I'm at least going to pick one up.

To anyone who replies do you think I should do a water change? I don't want to needlessly stress him out but maybe it would help?

 

To anyone who replies do you think I should do a water change? I don't want to needlessly stress him out but maybe it would help?

Everytime you turn your filter off I’m pretty sure you killing the cycle then restarting it after you’ve turn it back on a couple days later. And if you add bottled bacteria you’re not supposed to be doing water changes. And maybe add salt to the tank to helping relieve stress.

 

Yeah I know I keep killing and restarting the cycle Today I got a new filter entirely, one that works much better for my tank so hopefully this will be the end of all the cycling and re-cycling.

I have just today added more beneficial bacteria in hopes of jump starting the new filter.
You mentioned that I shouldn't be doing water changes with the bottled bacteria, how long do I need to wait? What if tomorrow there is a large ammonia spike? Do I just add more bacteria in that case?

Ill look into adding salt, from what I've seen salt in a freshwater tank is a pretty controversial issue which makes me a little nervous.

Do you think its just stress that is making my fish act strange?

 

Everytime you turn your filter off I’m pretty sure you killing the cycle then restarting it after you’ve turn it back on a couple days later. And if you add bottled bacteria you’re not supposed to be doing water changes. And maybe add salt to the tank to helping relieve stress.

Salt will likely stress the fish more; fish usually don't cope with osmotic changes too well.

 

In that case is there anything I can do to help him? Besides working on getting the new filter cycled asap? Discus-Tang

 

Indian almond leaves are a good stress reducer, but they will stain the water a brown colour.

 

Any idea where I would get those from? Do stores like petsmart or festival carry them? Discus-Tang

 

Any idea where I would get those from? Do stores like petsmart or festival carry them? Discus-Tang

I don't know about American pet stores, but you could certainly order them online. That's what I did.

 

Okay I will call around! Thank you. Would you imagine hes just stressed? I'm just trying to figure out if anything else could be wrong, I almost feel like I'm missing something Discus-Tang

 

Yeah I know I keep killing and restarting the cycle Today I got a new filter entirely, one that works much better for my tank so hopefully this will be the end of all the cycling and re-cycling.

I have just today added more beneficial bacteria in hopes of jump starting the new filter.
You mentioned that I shouldn't be doing water changes with the bottled bacteria, how long do I need to wait? What if tomorrow there is a large ammonia spike? Do I just add more bacteria in that case?

Ill look into adding salt, from what I've seen salt in a freshwater tank is a pretty controversial issue which makes me a little nervous.

Do you think its just stress that is making my fish act strange?

Don’t test the water unless you really see a reason to it’s just gonna scare you into testing the water then ruining the cycle when you change the water

 

That's fair. I don't want to kill my fish though. If I notice an increase in ammonia/nitrite/nitrate should I just leave it alone unless its drastic? At what point is it okay to do a water change again? Fanuel

 

That's fair. I don't want to kill my fish though. If I notice an increase in ammonia/nitrite/nitrate should I just leave it alone unless its drastic? At what point is it okay to do a water change again? Fanuel

I would leave it until it’s drastic also here’s a link to a letter sent to tetra by a forum member and their response! It should answer most of your questions
Q & A With Tetra about Tetra SafeStart

 

That was extremely helpful and did answer my questions! Thank you!

 

That was extremely helpful and did answer my questions! Thank you!

No problem if you have any questions just ask I just began the TSS+ method a couple hours ago with 2 platys. Hopefully it goes good !

 

I hope it goes good as well After reading that email from tetra I feel much better! Just in case do you know at what level ammonia and/or nitrite starts to become deadly at? I'm guessing neither will go too high after reading tetras email but just in case Id like to know. Id rather ruin the cycle than kill my fish.

 

I hope it goes good as well After reading that email from tetra I feel much better! Just in case do you know at what level ammonia and/or nitrite starts to become deadly at? I'm guessing neither will go too high after reading tetras email but just in case Id like to know. Id rather ruin the cycle than kill my fish.

Anything above 0 is bad for your fish it also says in the email or maybe a video I watched made by tetra saying it doesn’t increase any of those

 

Just in case do you know at what level and/or nitrite starts to become deadly at?

Short answer: Best to keep things at 0 (or close to) whenever possible.

Long answer: Ammonia in water exists in two forms, free ammonia (NH3) and ammonium (NH4+). Free ammonia is generally more toxic than ammonium, as the former is able to diffuse more easily across cell membranes. The mechanism of action for ammonia lockers (such as Prime) is to temporarily bind free ammonia into a non-toxic form. However, it's important not to understate the toxicity of high ammonium as it can cause a surge of calcium ions that results in damage to a fish's central nervous system (Randall & Tsui, 2002).

The toxicity of ammonia is very species dependent. For example, de Oliveira (2008) conducted a study involving cardinal tetras and found that ammonia only began causing mortality effects at 1.4 ppm (96 hours exposure, 0.032 ppm free ammonia). The lethal dose (50% mortality over 96 hours) of ammonia was 23.7 ppm. I have read off-hand that some species of trout can withstand short-term exposure to several hundred ppm ammonia during spawning.

Nitrite, on the other hand, is much more toxic. In the same study involving cardinal tetra, a 1 ppm nitrite concentration resulted in 40% mortality over 96 hours.

 

Does tetra safe start combat the fatal effects of both ammonia and nitrite in that case? Because from what I'm gathering from their response to all the questions (posted above) my tank should have an ammonia and nitrite reading of between 1 and 1.5 ppm for almost 2 week. I guess I'm just confused how my bettas going to survive that high of an ammonia/nitrite reading when more than 1 ppm of either substance is deadly. Am I supposed to do a water change when those readings get high? From what I'm gathering from tetras explanation I am not supposed to. I understand I need to give my tank time to cycle but Id rather have an uncycled tank where my fish is alive than a cycled tank with a deceased fish. I'm not sure how familiar you are with TSS but how does that all work? Minnowette

 

All of the bottled bacteria products recommend against changing water as the bacteria requires time in order to secrete a biofilm and attach to surfaces. Doing a water change while the bacteria is suspended in the water column is a bit like emptying part of TSS right into the sink.

But the idea of "no water changes" really depends on the cycle progressing at a steady pace to ensure that the ammonia being excreted by fish is consumed and processed to nitrite then to nitrate quickly. This ensures that fish aren't exposed to elevated ammonia and nitrite concentrations for extended periods.

However, sometimes this doesn't happen. For all sorts of reasons (usually due to the unique water parameters in each individual tank), bacteria may require additional time to reproduce and colonise in a tank, and ammonia/nitrite begin to accumulate. In that case, it becomes necessary to do water changes to dilute the toxicity of these compounds.

It's essentially a balancing act: you want to minimise water changes to ensure that you're not removing the bacteria while its still in the water column and at the same time, you want to maximise water changes to dilute ammonia/nitrite.

Generally, it's advised to do daily testing for ammonia/nitrite during a fish-in cycle. If either read over 1 ppm, do a large (50%) water change to dilute it 0.50 ppm. Sometimes you might have to do a water change everyday, sometimes you only need to do a water change every week. It's highly variable.

 

A single betta being fed correctly, i.e., not overfed, isn't a problem in an uncycled tank. They produce such a small amount of waste that doing a fish in cycle with them and changing the water every 3-5 days is absolutely harmless. Messing with the water, constantly testing it, turning the filter off and on, etc., is FAR more problematic.