Fish noob with cycling question

Let me start by saying thanks for all the great information you have on this site. For someone like me who was thrown into owing a fish, I have learned a lot based on this site and the very informative people on here. If I didnt see this site, my daughters poor betta dorey would probably be dead.

Now ill tell you on how I acquired Dorey. Jan 15/12 my 4 yr old daughter received him (her to my daughter) for her 4th birthday as a GIFT from a family member. It would have been nice if my husband and I knew about it first lol. That night I started researching on how to care for this little guy and came to find out that the .95 g bowl he was in was way to small and should be in a tank with a heater. The following friday (I think the 20th) I went and purchased a marina 5 gallon tank kit () and purchased a elite 25 watt heater. () The guy at the pet store told me to run for 2 days then add Dorey the betta. Thank goodness I found your site about the cycle cuz I had no clue what new tank syndrome was or you needed to cycle at all. Now to my question...

I started doing a fish less cycle obviously and started it jan 21/12 using the pure ammonia method. The ammonia has been steady at 4ppm. It came down I think it was about 4-5 days later to 2ppm so I added a few drops to bring it back up to the 4 level. Its been holding steady at 4 since then and I have not added any more ammonia since. 2 days ago I checked the ammonia and it went to 2ppm. Checked nitrites and nitrates and my nitrites were 0 and nitrates were 20. Checked yesterday and no change. Checked today and my ammonia is still at 2ppm, N02 is at 0 and N03 is at 40. I'm not sure what to do now or if this is normal. Oh and my ph has been holding at 7 and my temp was at 86 but I turned it down this morning and hope to get it a bit cooler. Any help or advice would be great cuz I want Dorey out of this small bowl.

I hope ive made sense cuz I'm really a fish noob and have a very small idea of what I'm doing lol.

Thanks for reading this

 

Welcome to FishLore!

It does seem odd that you have apparently processed some ammonia, but had no spike in nitrites, and an increase in nitrates.

I will say that test strips are notorious for being inaccurate, so that can be part of the problem. On the other hand it's been about 2 1/2 weeks since you started adding ammonia, so it wouldn't be surprising to see that you are converting some ammonia.

But it sounds like you are on the right track. I would recommend splurging for an API liquid test kit. With accurate readings it is much easier to follow what is happening.

BTW, I know this info is coming too late, but since you already had the Betta, it would have been acceptable to cycle the tank with him in it. You would have just needed to do daily partial water changes with Prime water conditioner until cycled. It's no worse for the betta than living in that small, unheated bowl and needing to change that water daily...or you could have used Tetra SafeStart.

 

2 days ago I checked the ammonia and it went to 2ppm.

Hmm, have you been doing water changes? Changing the water out should help drop your Ammonia levels down, and let your biological system catch up. I would do a water change every other day until the ammonia drops. Then if the ammonia stays down for at least two-three days, I would say your good and put "Dorey" in...

My 6.6g bookshelf aquarium was like that and I did a couple water changes and it stabilized. HOWEVER, 5 gallon aquariums, even a 6.6g aquarium is very hard to control algae, so be ready for algae blooms EVERYWHERE! I would recommend fluval lab series phosphate remover, and put that in with your filter( it should last you a while!)
It is expensive, but on "Amazon.com" they have it for around $15

HOPE THIS HELPS!!!

 

I would recommend splurging for an API liquid test kit.

BTW, I know this info is coming too late, but since you already had the Betta, it would have been acceptable to cycle the tank with him in it. It's no worse for the betta than living in that small, unheated bowl and needing to change that water daily...or you could have used Tetra SafeStart.

I have looked at my LPS's and they don't carry the apI liquid test kit. All they carry is the apI test strips. The next closest fish store that may carry it would be 1.5 hr drive. I didnt want to have to drive that far to get the liquid but I just may have to if the strips are not accurate

As for cycling with the betta from what I have read it sounded like torture doing it that way and I just thought changing his water in the bowl every day would be better and safer for him. I guess I read wrong or didnt understand what was being said and I didnt even know TSS existed until recently. Can I throw that in or is it too late? lol

Apple: no I have not done any water changes yet. Should I do a FWC and just monitor it cuz I what I thought needed to happen was for it to drop to 0 by itself, bring it back up and if goes to 0 within 12-24 hrs its cycled. Like I said I'm totally new to this and my understanding of cycling is none lol.

Thx for the quick replies and the warm greetings and great advice.

 

My 6.6g bookshelf aquarium was like that and I did a couple water changes and it stabilized. HOWEVER, 5 gallon aquariums, even a 6.6g aquarium is very hard to control algae, so be ready for algae blooms EVERYWHERE! I would recommend fluval lab series phosphate remover, and put that in with your filter( it should last you a while!)
It is expensive, but on "Amazon.com" they have it for around $15

HOPE THIS HELPS!!!

I have read that the smaller tanks are hard to control algae and I haven't heard of fluval lab series phosphate remover which I will at my LPS. I read the algae with the ammonia being so high and having the temp elevated its a great breading ground for algae so (and I believe I read it here) I have had the tank in complete darkness. My tank light has been off and I have a dark towel covering the glass in the front and the sides of the tank and so far no algae. I will for sure look into getting that product you recommended and thanks for the tip.

 

I have looked at my LPS's and they don't carry the apI liquid test kit. All they carry is the apI test strips. The next closest fish store that may carry it would be 1.5 hr drive. I didnt want to have to drive that far to get the liquid but I just may have to if the strips are not accurate

As for cycling with the betta from what I have read it sounded like torture doing it that way and I just thought changing his water in the bowl every day would be better and safer for him. I guess I read wrong or didnt understand what was being said and I didnt even know TSS existed until recently. Can I throw that in or is it too late? lol

You could always order the Test Kit on-line.

Usually it's best to cycle fishless, if not using SafeStart. But in those cases the fish are usually still in the tank at the store and that is easier on them then being involed in a fish in cycle.

But since they keep Betta's in those death cups, with no filter and no heater, I believe it is better for the Betta to go thru a fish in cycle than stay in the cup (or in your case an unheated, unfilter bowl).

Back when I had a Betta I cycled his tank with SafeStart. I think it's a prefect solution for getting a Betta tank cycled. It gets him out of the cup right away, yet doesn't have to live thru 6 weeks of daily partial water changes.

On a related note, I had my Betta in a 6.6 bookshelf tank. Talk about an algae problem! So in desperation I used API algae remover. Shortly after my Betta died a slow painful death. Shortly thereafter I learned on this forum that there's a 50% chance that stuff will kill the fish. So I think if you do have an algae problem you would be much better off using the mentioned phosphate removers.

 

ya I think I will order the kit online thx. Do you think its too late to get tss and put the betta in or just let it run its course?

As of right now (knock on wood) I have no algae, I think that's due to have NO light what so ever going into the tank. Its pitch black except when I take water readings. Now when I do take the towel off, that might be a whole other story so just better safe then sorry, I will get that fluval lab series phosphate remover. The last thing I want to battle is algae lol.

 

It's up to you whether to try SafeStart now. You are probably about half way thru cycling. So I guess it comes down top how annoying it is to keep changing the water in the bowl, althogh your betta would probably be happy to be in a heated tank.

If you opt for SafeStart you'll need to empty the tank and start over (since you don't want to start with ammonia already present in the tank if at all possible.)

 

If the ammonia is dropping, couldn't the OP just wait until it reaches 0 and add the betta instead of starting over?

 

I'm finding your question a little ambiguous (I find a lot of questions ambiguous so don't take it personal )

The Op could wait, that's why I said "It's up to you". But since nitrites haven't shown up yet you would still be stuck doing daily water changes with Prime until the cycle finishes.

--or--

You really don;t want to add SafeStart with elevated nitrite levels either. If the ammonia drops to zero, there should be elevated nitrites.

 

Makes sense. A liquid test kit would help, but without one "starting over" does seem the safest option.

 

Cheapest price on API Master Kit that I've been able to find.

 

thanks again for the replies.

I ordered the apI master test kit lastnight and I hope it will be here by friday. I guess ill see what that reads then decide on what to do based on the information you all have provided to me. I really want the betta outta that bowl. Being a mom of a 4yr old and a 10 month old, I really don't have the time to change the water in the bowl every day. I usually have to wait till my little one is asleep in the afternoon to do it and I neglect other things I would normally do at that time. Also, I think its a cruel way to keep a fish. Now when I go to the LPS, I want to buy all the bettas in those small poop filled cups and rescue them all. lol I can't wait to see him on his betta hammock I got for him. Hopefully I can get this going asap.

Thanks again

 

Being a mom of a 4yr old and a 10 month old, I really don't have the time to change the water in the bowl every day. I usually have to wait till my little one is asleep in the afternoon to do it and I neglect other things I would normally do at that time.

I'm with you on that one.....I have 4 little munchikins and between them and the fish I feel sorry for my lodger! It's really hard fitting in time to do those changes, but if I'm finding it hard I try to picture explaining to my daughters I killed their fish and i'm running for that siphon. Know what you mean about wanting to rescue the fish in the shops too!!!

 

Its not so much my 4yr old. I tell her (since its her fish) if I don't change her water in the bowl every day then she will get very sick. Its my 10 month old who is into everything. Hes absolutely horrible. I have to wait till he's asleep in the afternoon so I can do water changes cuz I can't turn my back on him for a second lol. Its taken me no word of a lie 10 min to write this short post cuz ive gotten up to remove him from things so many times now I lost count.

I'm totally into fish keeping now and I think the bettas are beautiful and I'm pretty sure Dorey is not our last. I'm sure once I get this thank cycled, read more on the hobby I'm very sure I will get at least 2 bigger tanks to divide for bettas and get different fish in the other. My parents had fish while I was growing up and I didnt may much attention to it which I regret now but, I remember how cool it was to many many tanks with some pretty cool looking fish and id like to get like that one day.

Fish are so relaxing to watch.

 

Good for you! I started with a betta in a bowl that someone gave me too. I also have a 2 year old so I completely understand, I have to do my weekly water change at 9pm after she goes to bed! Good luck, I think since you're doing your research you are already a great "fish mom". Oh, and if I had the means to do it, I would totally save all the bettas in cups and ban the selling of them in chain stores. Puppies too, but unless I win the lottery my hubby will have a fit if I bring home another fish tank or dog!

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

I totally agree Abalisa. They way they treat and house fish and puppies imo are awful. The tanks look to be way over crowded and the puppies stuck in wire bottom cages makes me sick not to mention the poop filled cups with 2 inches of water for the bettas. Pet stores in general I don't think know what they are talking about cuz I had one guy tell me I can put in bettas in together but make sure they are females. Just make sure I get at least 2 so the male (dorey) will pick on one then move to the other. My first thought was, uh r u nuts and second was, um what if they have babies then what do I do cuz I'm just learning how to care for one betta, I don't think I'm no where near ready to raise fry too. I wouldnt be able to leave them to let him eat them. Stupid stupid guy. So I have learned rather fast to not listen to pet store people and I have turn here for ALL my research.

 

yea, I wouldn't even put 2 female bettas together (I think some people do & they get on fine though). You probably would have ended up with 2-3 dead fish. My own experience leads me to research on this site over even my favorite privately owned pet store. When it comes down to it, they want to sell you something, fishlore wants your fish to be happy and healthy.

 

So I got the API freshwater master test kit today and here is what it told me....
PH - It was a darker blue color then the one on the chart so I'm not sure of the reading so its higher than 7.6 which is max on the chart.

PH High - this one is at 8.0 (is that ok?)

Ammonia - is at a 1.0

N02 - at a 0

N03 - at a 5.0 ppm

so based on what ive put down here, am I on the right path?

I also think Dorey is constipated. He has a small round ball at the end of his body before his tale. (not sure what this area is called cuz I am a noob lol) I gave him half of a pea that's all he would eat. Any other ideas on what I could do? And I also feed him Nutrafin basix betta food which contains freeze dried red grubs. I also have betta flake food and he won't eat that.

 

I would say that your on the right track...

If he is not eating, then don't feed him for a couple day's then begin feeding him small portions, and over a couple weeks, gradually go back to your normal feeding routine.

I have a female, and a male Betta (in separate tanks of course) and they both have little "hissy fits" every once in a while and won't eat for a couple days. OH, also, is there any algae in your tank, my Betta's will occasionally eat the algae and have an "allergic reaction" and bloat up... so I don't feed them, and occasionally give them a pea for about 5-6 days, or until there belly is not so big...

P.S: here is a link to the fish anatomy so you can decrease your "noob level", and increase your "Hey, I am now an expert level!"

Fish Anatomy

 

Hey Apple

Oh hes eating. I think if continued to feed to him the freeze dried red grubs he would eat till he blew up. I noticed lastnight he was a bit bloated and this morning I gave him a pea but he would only eat half of it till he started spitting it out. I can feed him peas everyday for a few days or should I stop feeding all together? I think what got me into this mess was I over fed him cuz stupid me read the directions on the bottle which is only feed what your fish will eat within 2 min. Well he kept eating and I kept feeding. Big mistake. I don't know why I decided NOW to read the bottle cuz ive only been giving him 3-4 pieces per day. I know its my fault. Thanks for the link. I have bookmarked it.

oh and there is no algae so hes not eating it.

 

So I got the API freshwater master test kit today and here is what it told me....
PH - It was a darker blue color then the one on the chart so I'm not sure of the reading so its higher than 7.6 which is max on the chart.

PH High - this one is at 8.0 (is that ok?)

The API ph test is broken into two scales. I forget the exact numbers so bear with me. It's something like 6.0 to 7.2 and the high ph scale goes from something like 7.0 to 8.4

So if your ph is above what the lower scale measures, it will max it out and your ph will be what the result of the high ph test gives you. If your ph is below the range the high ph tests for, then your ph will be what the low ph test tells you it is.

So since you maxed out the low range ph test, your ph is what the high range ph test indicated which is 8.0. For most fish any ph between 6.0 and 8.0 or so is fine, so you should be fine.

 

ok I understand now Jdhef. Makes sense. When I saw 8 for high ph I was kinda freaking out a bit but I feel better now. Thanks again.

 

Welcome to Fishlore.

Hopefully your tank will cycle soon.

Thread moved to the Aquarium Water/Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle forum.