Fish Loss After Api General Cure

  1. S

    SGA New Member Member

    First thanks to everyone who has posted answers on this forum. I have only had an aquarium for about 7 months and have found the resources here to be invaluable. Now to my current issue, I treated my 55 Gal tank with API General Cure after seeing white and translucent poo and noticing lethargy in some of my guppies. In 12 hours I have lost 4 fish. ( 1 neon tetra, 2 gupppies, and 1 false julii cory cat). I panicked, halted treatment with 40% wc and replaced carbon filter. These fish weren't the ones showing symptoms. I'm concerned that the guppies that are lethargic have Hexamita but I'm really not sure. Now to tank parameters and fish.
    6 guppies
    5 rasbora het
    2 false julii cory
    18 or 19 neon tetra
    3 molly
    5 assassin snails
    plus 4 day old guppy fry (about 25 +-)
    this is after the fish loss

    ammonia 0
    nitrite 0
    nitrate 40
    pH 7.5
    temp 78
     
  2. OP
    OP
    S

    SGA New Member Member


  3. BottomDweller

    BottomDweller Fishlore VIP Member

    Welcome to fishlore!

    Your fish loss is probably due to high nitrates rather than API general cure. High nitrates will cause lethargy and possibly white poop.

    If you had carbon in your filter it would have removed the treatment anyway so shouldn't have effected the fish.

    Do you have nitrates n your tap water?
     


  4. OP
    OP
    S

    SGA New Member Member

    I had already done several partial wc. The nitrates were closer to 40 after wc and those levels have been pretty consistent. I do not believe my fish loss is due to nitrates at 40 ppm. I only added carbon back into filter after 40% wc and 12 hours of API general cure treatment in the water and 4 fish dead. I will have to test my tap water when I get back, but I would suggest no due to the fact that when I do a partial wc the nitrate level does decrease.

    Also my neons tend to show signs of higher nitrates (80ppm) before anyone else and they are acting fine, other than one is dead!

    33a3204d6e3a4db3224095e0dfdb0490.jpg

    bfffb59e5b93bd3306ef70fa0c0733ee.jpg
     


  5. California L33

    California L33 Well Known Member Member

    Sorry for your loss. I thought most medicines were fairly stressful to fish. As to why the 'healthy' fish would succumb but the sick ones didn't- no idea. It just doesn't make sense.
     
  6. toolman

    toolman Well Known Member Member

    I would recommend getting an ammonia test kit, the strips don't test for ammonia levels. I highly recommend the api freshwater master test kit, strips can be very unreliable.

    You may have ammonia present!

    Edit: I don't believe the api general cure harmed your fish.
     
  7. JLeeM

    JLeeM Well Known Member Member

    I agree with @BottomDweller, probably high nitrates killed your fish. Cories and neons both, if I'm not mistaken are very weak in unfavorable water parameters. Nitrates of 40 or above is considered toxic, and begins to harm pretty much any fish. You also said you did water changes before the results of 40 came up if I understand correctly. So then there's no telling how high they were beforehand.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    S

    SGA New Member Member

    I have ammonia test kit and that has been 0. Just didn't take pic of results. Also have nitrite test tube kit and it is 0. The level was at 80 before water change but I have been watching nitrate levels along with ammonia and nitrites on a daily basis for about 10 days now.
     
  9. D

    Discusluv Well Known Member Member

    High nitrates puts stress on fish and lowers their immunity ( over time) to parasites and bacteria. The protozoa that causes Hexamita, for example, can be found in the guts of many healthy fish, but it is only when the fish's resistance is low that this parasite gets the upper hand and begins to sicken the fish.
    While there are some diseases and parasites that are transmitted among healthy fish, the majority are opportunistic, they are not a problem unless their environment is poor: water quality (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates), long term stress from incompatible fish, incorrect temperature, etc...
    High nitrates are deadly.
     
  10. BottomDweller

    BottomDweller Fishlore VIP Member

    40ppm nitrates can kill. 80ppm nitrates definitely kills, even hardy fish like zebra danios can die from 80ppm nitrates.

    I have 80ppm nitrates in my tap water. Before I realised this 2 guppies and 1 zebra danio had died. I got seachem matrix and it (along with plants) keeps the tank water nitrates between 20-30ppm but 0-10ppm is ideal. I will be adding an additional filter with just matrix in a few months to get nitrates even lower.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    S

    SGA New Member Member

    Ok so API not the cause of death. I am still concerned about the lack of appetite and lethargy of some of my fish. The whole reason I treated was due to the white translucent poo.
    What do I do now, other than daily partial wc?
    I am using stress zyme and now prime. Just got prime yesterday, before that stress coat plus and stress zyme. The whole reason I started daily monitoring is because I believe my tank, which has been setup for 7 months, went thru a mini cycle when I added 6 female guppies and 7 more neon tetras. I do believe the "mini" cycle has stabilized but maybe too late. At the beginning of the mini cycle I did have slightly elevated ammonia and nitrites along with nitrates, but now just my nitrates are up and down...but not over 80, which I understand is a problem, that's why I am doing daily partial wc. All this being said, I have only lost fish at the very start of the mini cycle and then after addition of API general cure. But I do understand it may just be coincidental. Any recommendations on lowering and maintaining nitrate levels below 20?
     
  12. tunafax

    tunafax Well Known Member Member

    First, I got a question for you. Did you dissolve the general cure in a cup and then add, or did you add it straight out of the packet into the tank?
     
  13. OP
    OP
    S

    SGA New Member Member

    I did add seachem denitrate in my HOB filter on Saturday. I have an aquaclear 110 and I added an air bubbler. I suppose I could add a second filter. Not sure about plants. I had some marimo balls but then got paranoid and removed them. Thought they might have caused the problem because my guppies acted fine before I added the marimo. I knew the neons and cory were struggling with nitrate levels. That is another reason I have tried to keep it lower with daily partial wc...I have even done twice a day but was a little worried about BB so cut back to once a day.
     
  14. D

    Discusluv Well Known Member Member

    Simple:
    I would do daily 50% water changes until your nitrates get under 20.
    From here: do weekly scheduled 50-75% water changes, making sure to clean the gravel with the python each time.
    Problem solved.
     
  15. OP
    OP
    S

    SGA New Member Member

    Tunafax I mixed in a bowl with tank water and then used turkey baster to apply throughout entire tank.
     
  16. D

    Discusluv Well Known Member Member

    There is no need to worry about your beneficial bacteria because of water changes. Most bacteria is on surfaces: in filter, on gravel, glass. I raise discus and as juveniles I change their water at 75% every other day- there is never a loss of my cycle because of this.
     
  17. O

    OnTheFly Well Known Member Member

    Keep the WCs up until the water is clean. API General Cure is used by some Pros on every fish that ever enters their shop. IMO it's highly unlikely a single dose is your killer.
     
  18. D

    Discusluv Well Known Member Member

     
  19. OP
    OP
    S

    SGA New Member Member

    Thanks to everyone for all the info. I will continue daily partial water changes and hopefully get my nitrate to less than 20 and then retreat with API general cure. I will also test my tap water for nitrates...although not sure what to do if they are present. I just started using prime with water changes so hopefully that will help. Thanks again.
     
  20. OP
    OP
    S

    SGA New Member Member

    Another dead fish.....ugh. bb0da493ee9c07dcf0f2f5a99ee56800.jpg