20 Gallon Tank Fish-in Cycling advice needed after bad advice from shop

Hi all,

This is a long post, please be patient, I just want to give as much information as possible.

I’m new to keeping fish and was given extremely bad advice by a shop I purchased a 25 litre starter kit with.

I set up the 25 litre as per the instructions - the shop didn’t tell me I needed to test the water nor do a cycle. So after two weeks of the filter running I bought my fish and put them in (see stock below). But I then began to do my own research on keeping fish and found out just how badly I’d been advised to do things so the fish I bought were in an uncycled tank.

So I’m now having to do a cycle with fish in after purchasing a bigger tank for the danios from a shop who seemed to give better advice.

New setup:
74 litre tank (2.6ft long)
Ciano CF80 internal filter
100w Heater (water temp set at 23c)
Digital thermometer
Ciano CLA60 White light
Ciano CLA60 red/blue LED plant lamps (both lights on together for 4.5 hours in the evening - off all other times - I did have them on more regularly but have decreased it from yesterday due to algae growth)
Eheim air pump with small aerator I’ve place within some plants.
14 litres of substrate (Fluvel Stratum and aquarium gravel)
60 litres of actual water

Stock:
8 neon tetras
6 danio (2 zebra’s and 4 leopards)
1 guppy fry (was accidentally put in with bag with danios on first purchase and shop didn’t know what it was and said it’d be fine)
4 zebra nerite snails
2 Malaysian trumpet snails (stow aways from gravel and breeding)
A growing population of bladder snails & mini ramshorn (stow aways from plants and breeding)
3 Assassin snails (to keep bladder & ramshorn numbers under control)

Live plants:
Microsorum pteropus attached to a piece of Mopani wood
Amazon Sword (echinodorus bleheri)
Dwarf Sagittaria (sagittaria subulata)
Ludwigia Repens ‘OIvalis’

I use a SERA test kit to test daily for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. I also test for dGH/dKH and phosphate. My readings from today (pre water change / post water change) were:
pH 6.5 / 7.0
Ammonia 0.2ppm / 0.1ppm (approximating)
Nitrite 0ppm / 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm / (didn't test post water change)
Phosphate 1ppm

I’m doing daily 25% water changes on detection of ammonia, which generally is between 0.125-0.25 just before I do a water change, and pretty much zero (0.05 maybe) after the change. I also have a Seachem Ammonia Alert in the tank which has stayed at safe ever since installing it in my tank.

Nitrite so far has been zero (nitrate never above base reading of 5ppm) and have been cycling for around 4 weeks now. I know it can take a number of weeks for the cycle to complete, so I can assume the cycle hasn't started since nitrites are consistently at zero.

When changing water daily I am adding Seachem Prime (double dosing enough for the whole tank (3ml), as per advice from a fish keeping person).
Once a week I will add small doses of Seachem Flourish as some of my plants are slightly browning.
Both the prime and the flourish I add to the water before siphoning it into the tank at the same temp as the water in the tank.

Base readings from tap water:
pH 7.0
dGH 6
dKH 3
Nitrate 5ppm

I’ve noticed a lot of my plants have algae growth on the leaves (diatom & hair), is there something I can do about this? Wipe them with a soft cloth just before a water change? I've been told & have read this is normal in new setups and will disappear on it's own accord as the tank matures?
The tank is positioned on a low chest of drawers in my bedroom with a wardrobe immediately to the right of the tank: there is a window just above on the adjacent wall (to the right) so the tank doesn’t get direct sunlight.

If you’ve made it to this point, thank you so much for taking the time to read this exhaustive post and apologies it’s so long! I just want to do good by the fish and learn along the way. I've started reading the freshwater e-book from here and learning so much more.

I just want to know if I need to be doing anything else so I don't harm the fish any more than necessary.

p.s. I'm currently doing a fishless cycle in the smaller tank as it'll likely happen quicker than cycling the main tank and then I can just swap out the sponges. I don't know anyone I can get any mature media from so this isn't an option for me.

Sorry for the huge essay and thanks so much in advance for any help / recommendations you can give me.

Happy Christmas
James

 

From what i know, you seem like you're doing the right thing! I'm also quite new and I was carefully informed on how to do a fish in cycle and it worked out for me, however I only had a single betta so perhaps i got off lightly. The advice I follwed may still be of some help to you though. I was told to feed one day and not feed, but water change the next and keep that routine going until my tank was cycled. You might already know this, but you should see your ammonia rise and then fall to 0ppm, then the nitrites will follow and do the same. once they decrease to 0ppm you should take a look at your nitrates. As long as you keep those under 40ppm, you should have yourself a cycled tank. For future ref and because you mentioned it, I was also advised on here to wait at least a month once your tank is cycled before taking any media out.

Water changes really are the best for solving water parameter issues and seachem prime is what i was advised to use as well and double dosing is obviously a good idea when you get ammonia/nitrite readings.

Tetras are quite sensitive to water quality so there is a chance some might not make it. Spikes can happen very very quickly and that could be enough to see them off. Snails are a little hardier but of course no fish or snail alike wants to live in poor water quality so you need to take care of them too, but from what i read you really are doing excellent. Fishkeeping is a hobby full of mistakes and as long as you learn from them and correct them, you cant be too hard on yourself. So really, its amazing you've done so much to get on the right track. I dont know you, but im proud! Some people who hopefully reply might advise you to take livestock back but im not the expert on that as ive never done it so dont take my word for it on that.

But keep it up and I hope that was at least a little helpful!

 

From what i know, you seem like you're doing the right thing! I'm also quite new and I was carefully informed on how to do a fish in cycle and it worked out for me, however I only had a single betta so perhaps i got off lightly. The advice I follwed may still be of some help to you though. I was told to feed one day and not feed, but water change the next and keep that routine going until my tank was cycled. You might already know this, but you should see your ammonia rise and then fall to 0ppm, then the nitrites will follow and do the same. once they decrease to 0ppm you should take a look at your nitrates. As long as you keep those under 40ppm, you should have yourself a cycled tank. For future ref and because you mentioned it, I was also advised on here to wait at least a month once your tank is cycled before taking any media out.

Water changes really are the best for solving water parameter issues and seachem prime is what i was advised to use as well and double dosing is obviously a good idea when you get ammonia/nitrite readings.

Tetras are quite sensitive to water quality so there is a chance some might not make it. Spikes can happen very very quickly and that could be enough to see them off. Snails are a little hardier but of course no fish or snail alike wants to live in poor water quality so you need to take care of them too, but from what i read you really are doing excellent. Fishkeeping is a hobby full of mistakes and as long as you learn from them and correct them, you cant be too hard on yourself. So really, its amazing you've done so much to get on the right track. I dont know you, but im proud! Some people who hopefully reply might advise you to take livestock back but im not the expert on that as ive never done it so dont take my word for it on that.

But keep it up and I hope that was at least a little helpful!

It was very helpful, thank you so much for taking the time to read the above 'novella' I wrote!
I really appreciate your time, thank you and merry Christmas!

 

You are doing everything right. For water changes. I would wait until ammonia and nitrites equal one combined. This will give your biological filter chance to produce. So if ammonia is .5 and nitrites .5 do the water change. As far as your plants getting algea this will happen while the tank cycles. You are producing algea food in ammonia and nitrates. So I would just keep going at the pace you are.

The second tank will probably take longer to cycle fishless. In your first tank the bacteria is trying to catch up because the demand is there. Even though you are adding ammonia to the second. The first tank is getting all the ammonia and things it needs to progress. Just keep up on water changes and you will get through

 

For water changes. I would wait until ammonia and nitrites equal one combined. This will give your biological filter chance to produce. So if ammonia is .5 and nitrites .5 do the water change.

Do you mean don’t do any further water changes? Or wait until ammonia reaches 0.5 before changing water to allow for nitrites to begin to rise?

apologies if I’ve read your reply incorrectly.

 

Do water changes when ammonia and nitrites equal 1 combined. So add the number of both test and when it is one combined then do a water change.

 

If you spend very much time here on the forum you will soon learn that I am a firm believer in water changes. Big ones and lots of them. The very best thing we can give our water pets is fresh clean water.

In this case though As Rcslade124 just said, you need to leave a bit of ammonia in the tank to feed and grow your bacteria. I would let the ammonia get up to at least .25 before doing another water change. You could even let it get up to .5 but no more than that. Once nitrites spike you want to keep the total amount of ammonia plus nitrites below one.

 

Do water changes when ammonia and nitrites equal 1 combined. So add the number of both test and when it is one combined then do a water change.

If you spend very much time here on the forum you will soon learn that I am a firm believer in water changes. Big ones and lots of them. The very best thing we can give our water pets is fresh clean water.

In this case though As Rcslade124 just said, you need to leave a bit of ammonia in the tank to feed and grow your bacteria. I would let the ammonia get up to at least .25 before doing another water change. You could even let it get up to .5 but no more than that. Once nitrites spike you want to keep the total amount of ammonia plus nitrites below one.

Thank you both! I did wonder if I were changing the water too frequently and not allowing the cycle to actually kick in. But I would rather be too cautious than not at all. I’ll go forth with your advice and see how it goes.
Very much appreciate your time and advice.
Hope you both have a lovely Christmas

 

Continue to do water changes when levels are high and just let nature run its course. You can also add beneficial bacteria if you feel the need. I used tetra safe start initially on mine, and continue to dose seachem stability daily (my 5 gallon is still cycling).

The algae/diatoms are actually a good thing and a nice way to cycle the tank as they help absorb nitrates. If you highly dislike it you can feed fish every other day to limit their "food" and also allow the snails to scraoe down the biofilm

 

Continue to do water changes when levels are high and just let nature run its course. You can also add beneficial bacteria if you feel the need. I used tetra safe start initially on mine, and continue to dose seachem stability daily (my 5 gallon is still cycling).

The algae/diatoms are actually a good thing and a nice way to cycle the tank as they help absorb nitrates. If you highly dislike it you can feed fish every other day to limit their "food" and also allow the snails to scraoe down the biofilm

I’ve just read the Q&A with Tetra on safestart post.
I’m still getting a zero reading on nitrites. Is it worth adding a dose of SafeStart to help it along?

And if so, do I then not do any water changes unless the ammonia / nitrites spike to a dangerous level?The above mentioned post says the ammonia will be stable at around 1-1.5ppm after using a dose of safestart but will cycle the tank in 2 weeks or so.

Or would it be best to just continue with the water changes when ammonia / nitrites = 1ppm combined?

 

I’ve just read the Q&A with Tetra on safestart post.
I’m still getting a zero reading on nitrites. Is it worth adding a dose of SafeStart to help it along?

And if so, do I then not do any water changes unless the ammonia / nitrites spike to a dangerous level?The above mentioned post says the ammonia will be stable at around 1-1.5ppm after using a dose of safestart but will cycle the tank in 2 weeks or so.

Or would it be best to just continue with the water changes when ammonia / nitrites = 1ppm combined?

You can easily add more bacteria using stability or safestsrt. It doesnt hurt to add beneficial bacteria. Id also continue your water changes. Any ammonia is harmful to you fishies. I do a water change at .5 ppm of ammonia alone. About 20-30%.

 

I’ve just read the Q&A with Tetra on safestart post.
I’m still getting a zero reading on nitrites. Is it worth adding a dose of SafeStart to help it along?

And if so, do I then not do any water changes unless the ammonia / nitrites spike to a dangerous level?The above mentioned post says the ammonia will be stable at around 1-1.5ppm after using a dose of safestart but will cycle the tank in 2 weeks or so.

Or would it be best to just continue with the water changes when ammonia / nitrites = 1ppm combined?

You can of course add TSS+ but whether you do or don't it takes time to cycle a tank. I would do my best to make sure the ammonia never gets up to 1-1.5ppm when doing a fish in cycle. When the nitrites start going up you need to try to keep the total amount of ammonia plus nitrites at or below one with water changes.

adding TSS+ may speed up your cycle and then again it may not. Almost every day someone comes here after adding TSS and wondering why their tank isn't cycling like the instructions on the bottle claims it will. For some folks it speeds up the cycle but just as often it doesn't.

As long as you keep an eye on the parameters and do water changes as needed your cycle will grow.

 

You can of course add TSS+ but whether you do or don't it takes time to cycle a tank. I would do my best to make sure the ammonia never gets up to 1-1.5ppm when doing a fish in cycle. When the nitrites start going up you need to try to keep the total amount of ammonia plus nitrites at or below one with water changes.

adding TSS+ may speed up your cycle and then again it may not. Almost every day someone comes here after adding TSS and wondering why their tank isn't cycling like the instructions on the bottle claims it will. For some folks it speeds up the cycle but just as often it doesn't.

As long as you keep an eye on the parameters and do water changes as needed your cycle will grow.

Think I’ll just stick with what I’m doing and return the TSS. Let things happen as they happen. I’m happy doing water changes as often as is required.
thanks for the info

You can easily add more bacteria using stability or safestsrt. It doesnt hurt to add beneficial bacteria. Id also continue your water changes. Any ammonia is harmful to you fishies. I do a water change at .5 ppm of ammonia alone. About 20-30%.

Yeah I do 25% changes, was doing it too often though and not letting the ammonia rise above 0.25. But now I let it go to as near as 0.5 as I can before changing to help the cycle.
I’m going to leave the TSS out I think and just carry on as I am. Thanks for your reply