Important Fish dying in fish in cycle.

RomanNoodles96

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I originally had 2 dwarf gouramis in my 29 gallon and if you have seen my first post I took one back because they were fighting. Long story short I got neon tetras to replace one, the other gouramI killed 2 of them, so I took the other gouramI back for 3 guppies. One of the guppies started laying on the ground and eventually started swimming upside down into the substrate till it died. Also one of my neon tetras randomly died. All the other fish are thriving. I have been dosing a double dose of prime to detoxify the ammonia and nitrite every 24 hours and doing water changes every 2-3 days. My current stock is 3 neon tetras and 1 male guppy and 1 female guppy. One reason the guppy and neon tetra may have died was because I did a 30% water change and poured the chlorinated water in then put in the prime. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm debating whether to take the fish back and finish with a fishless cycle or finish out the fish in cycle. I'm a week and a half into the cycle and nitrate and nitrite have both appeared so both forms of bacteria have formed.
 

SaltyPhone

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Well at this point you are already multiple fish in. Test kit and parameters including temp? I’m not one to trust that any water conditioners “detoxify” ammonia. That being said the ammonia is probably through the roof so large water change ~80% or so. From there based on ammonia levels will dictate your water change amount/frequency.
 
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RomanNoodles96

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SaltyPhone said:
Well at this point you are already multiple fish in. Test kit and parameters including temp? I’m not one to trust that any water conditioners “detoxify” ammonia. That being said the ammonia is probably through the roof so large water change ~80% or so. From there based on ammonia levels will dictate your water change amount/frequency.
Here's the thing though. Ammonia is at 0 and nitrite at .25 Nitrate was at 10. I'm using apI master test kit. Ph went from 7.8 to 7.4 in the span of 2 days, probably due to the Benefical bacteria breaking down the ammonia and nitrite? The 2 dwarf gouramis I had where in perfect condition when using prime but it may not detoxify the ammonia and nitrite.
 
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RomanNoodles96

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SaltyPhone said:
Well at this point you are already multiple fish in. Test kit and parameters including temp? I’m not one to trust that any water conditioners “detoxify” ammonia. That being said the ammonia is probably through the roof so large water change ~80% or so. From there based on ammonia levels will dictate your water change amount/frequency.
Also temp is 78 degrees Fahrenheit
 

SaltyPhone

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It’s difficult to say about the guppy. SBD is usually easy to diagnose though through behavior like struggling to swim down and floating back to the surface or vise versa
 

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The standard dose of Prime, dosed for the full tank volume, should detoxify a total of 1 ppm ammonia+nitrite for 24 hours. You can do that daily to protect the fish going forward.

I'd cut to the chase and dump a bottle of Tetra Safe Start Plus into the filter. Shake it really hard first and use the whole bottle. Assuming the bottle's not a dud the tank will be cycled in a day or two.
 
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RomanNoodles96

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JenC said:
The standard dose of Prime, dosed for the full tank volume, should detoxify a total of 1 ppm ammonia+nitrite for 24 hours. You can do that daily to protect the fish going forward.

I'd cut to the chase and dump a bottle of Tetra Safe Start Plus into the filter. Shake it really hard first and use the whole bottle. Assuming the bottle's not a dud the tank will be cycled in a day or two.
I already dumped a bottle of seachem stability in and I've been double dosing prime every 24 hours.
 

mattgirl

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JenC said:
The standard dose of Prime, dosed for the full tank volume, should detoxify a total of 1 ppm ammonia+nitrite for 24 hours. You can do that daily to protect the fish going forward.

I'd cut to the chase and dump a bottle of Tetra Safe Start Plus into the filter. Shake it really hard first and use the whole bottle. Assuming the bottle's not a dud the tank will be cycled in a day or two.
^^^^this^^^^

is a good idea but I would do a very big, meaning at least 75%, water change first should you decide to add TSS. Right now water changes are critical to the health of your fish. Keep the ammonia + nitrites below one with water changes and add Prime to detox what is left.
 

SaltyPhone

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JenC said:
The standard dose of Prime, dosed for the full tank volume, should detoxify a total of 1 ppm ammonia+nitrite for 24 hours. You can do that daily to protect the fish going forward.

I'd cut to the chase and dump a bottle of Tetra Safe Start Plus into the filter. Shake it really hard first and use the whole bottle. Assuming the bottle's not a dud the tank will be cycled in a day or two.
I can’t really get behind that school of thought. Primarily because it encourages easy fixes. From my limited experience I’ve found it better to understand causality and troubleshoot from there. I find that when I chase the easiest solution I end up with more problems.
 
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RomanNoodles96

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mattgirl said:
^^^^this^^^^

is a good idea but I would do a very big, meaning at least 75%, water change first should you decide to add TSS. Right now water changes are critical to the health of your fish. Keep the ammonia + nitrites below one with water changes and add Prime to detox what is left.
I already used prime and 30% water changes every other day. The neon tetra and guppy still died but the rest are thriving.
 

mattgirl

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RomanNoodles96 said:
I already used prime and 30% water changes every other day. The neon tetra and guppy still died but the rest are thriving.
Are you also keeping the ammonia + nitrite level below one by changing out 30% of the water? If they are above that you may need to do bigger water changes and possibly even every day. What ever it takes to keep the numbers down is what I would do. Prime is a good product but can only help so much. Keep the numbers down is the best way to protect your fish.
 
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RomanNoodles96

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mattgirl said:
Are you also keeping the ammonia + nitrite level below one by changing out 30% of the water? If they are above that you may need to do bigger water changes and possibly even every day. What ever it takes to keep the numbers down s what I would do. Prime is a good product but can only help so much. Keep the numbers down is the best way to protect your fish.
Like I said earlier ammonia is at 0 nitrite at .25 and nitrate 10
 
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RomanNoodles96

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mattgirl said:
Oops, I am sorry. I missed that. Well sadly sometimes fish are already too stressed when we get them and no matter how well we acclimate we still lose them. :)
Okay thanks for the help. Does stability work just as good as TSS when it comes to establishing the benefical bacteria colony?
 

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RomanNoodles96 said:
Okay thanks for the help. Does stability work just as good as TSS when it comes to establishing the benefical bacteria colony?
I have to be honest with you and say, I don't know. I've never used any of the bottled bacteria's. I have always done fish in cycles and just kept on top of the necessary water changes when spikes happened.
 

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SaltyPhone said:
I can’t really get behind that school of thought. Primarily because it encourages easy fixes. From my limited experience I’ve found it better to understand causality and troubleshoot from there. I find that when I chase the easiest solution I end up with more problems.
Opinions vary and that's okay.

I choose not to do fish in cycles but what's done is done. If a quick fix will save the fish suffering and stabilize the tank then I would do it now. There may still be a separate issue plaguing the fish but resolving the cycle will eliminate one potential cause and can only help the situation.
 
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RomanNoodles96

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JenC said:
Opinions vary and that's okay.

I choose not to do fish in cycles but what's done is done. If a quick fix will save the fish suffering and stabilize the tank then I would do it now. There may still be a separate issue plaguing the fish but resolving the cycle will eliminate one potential cause and can only help the situation.
Okay I'll make a new post if anything new occurs
 

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