Fish depression??

do fish get depressed? because I had this 2 white fancy guppies.. and they're always together and the other one died... and now the other one is just on the corner of the tank... its still eating its still swimming a bit. but 80% of the time its there just on the bottom corner of the tank...

 

Welcome to Fishlore!

I'm sorry for your loss . I believe some fish do. I also believe if the m/f ratio isn't correct, bullying can be rampid in a tank. Especially with live bearers. You want 1m/3-4f ratio with them so no one gets picked on.

 

no1s picking on some1 though.. but they don't like guppies with colorful tails... they think its food -_-

 

Good morning,

I agree with Shawnie. From past experiences with fish loss and watching the other tank mates, I have to believe they do show signs of loss and or depression.

I had one ill Bloody Parrot years ago, lost it's ability to swim normally. The other Bloody Parrots in the tank did their best to help the fish and keep it upright. It was amazing to watch.

Ken

 

no1s picking on some1 though.. but they don't like guppies with colorful tails... they think its food -_-

That's usually called male aggression ....do you now have 1f/5m?

 

Good morning,

I agree with Shawnie. From past experiences with fish loss and watching the other tank mates, I have to believe they do show signs of loss and or depression.

I had one ill Bloody Parrot years ago, lost it's ability to swim normally. The other Bloody Parrots in the tank did their best to help the fish and keep it upright. It was amazing to watch.

Ken

That is amazing! I've only seen it go the other way around with the sick one getting shunned/picked on.

 

Sorry for your loss. I do think fish do show sigh of loss of their tankmate. Perhaps you should find the guppies a new tankmate and check on your water to see if something goes wrong.

 

I have 2f 5male guppies. and the depressed one is the white fancy one. that lost his buddy.

 

I have 2f 5male guppies. and the depressed one is the white fancy one. that lost his buddy.

I suggest you get more female for your school though. female>male ratio is ideal for guppies.
Sorry for your loss. Hope the depressed guy will get better soon.

 

I bought a mollie..a white one -_- and he seems to like him.....

 

I ordered a large amount
of plants, driftwood, and fish from bobs tropical fish. He hasn't responded at all, and the worst part...

the fish are dying. lost 3 out of 6 panda cories, 3 out of 6 neon tetras and 1-2 pygmy cories out of 5. I never thought I would end up with a net in the tank, but alas...

The fish I got were a lot smaller than I thought. the pandas aren't an inch long.

It's nothing I did wrong. Perfect water, good overall conditions. It's just when I put in the cory species they just swam to the bottom and sat there. Never moved for food, nothing. I accumulated them over an hour also.

They looked pretty sad. a couple looked pale, ugg. What happened during the shipping process??

The plants kinda failed. the vals were 1-2 inches tall, the brazillian pennywort had 1-3 leaves on a foot and a half long stalk each, the DWG was half brown. The rest were decent, what I thought I would get at the least.

The wood is nice, probably the best part, besides the fact it floats a lot.

Mostly just a rant. Feels kinda terrible, got ripped off IMO.

Any advice? Emotional or physical...

Oh, ill add a picture in a bit.

 

So sorry to hear the news!

 

That stinks. I'm very sorry. I sure hope Bob gets back to you.

 

Just got back from a surfing, I feel a lot better about this situation. I came back with alive fish, that's all that matters

 

Hi~
A few months about 6 months ago my platy, Flame, passed away. Ash my other platy seemed to get depressed. I mean like hiding in the back of the tank in dark places, under rocks, behind plants, basically anywhere but in the light. I got a very small goldfish that did not have its color. He started to get better but then the goldfish got big and he did not like him anymore. So I bought a mickey mouse platy. He still did not get better but then I think my mickey mouse platy started to visit with him barbecue I would see him in the back of the tank with ash. In a few weeks ash had gotten better. What happened when Flame died, was it depression or a disease?

 

I can believe it was depression, though I should ask what it was Flame died of, just in case it was something that could have physically affected Ash.

 

Fish don't get depressed. By behavior mentioned it was an internal protozoan issue.

 

What would have caused that?

 

Could be many things, need some idea of your setup, routine & such. Please answer as many of these as possible;

1. Size of tank?

2. Water parameters
a. Ammonia?
b. Nitrite?
c. Nitrate?
d. pH, KH and GH?
e. Test kit?

3. Temperature?

4. Freshwater (fresh water) or BW (brackish)?

5. How long the aquarium has been set up?

6. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them?

7. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)?

8. a. Any live plants? Fake plants?
b. Sand, gravel, barebottom?
c. Rocks, woods, fancy decors? Any hollow decors?

9. a. Filtration?
b. Heater?

10. a. Lighting schedule? What lights are used?
b. Any sunlight exposure? How long?

11. a. Water change schedule?
b. Volume of water changed?
c. Well water, tap water, RO water?
d. Water conditioner used?
e. Frequency of gravel/sand (if any) vacuumed?

12. Foods?
How often are they fed?

13. a. Any abnormal signs/symptoms?
b. Appearance of poop?
c. Appearance of gills?

14. a. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis?
b. What meds were used?

15. Insert photos of fish in question and full tank shot if necessary.

 

Fish don't get depressed.

Is that so?

 

Fish don't get depressed.

That's a very cold statement!

 

Is that so?

That's a very cold statement!

Uncomfortable, stressed, sick, yes. Depressed no. They don't have the higher functioning brain required to experience depression. Anthropomorphizing an ill fish will not aid in their recovery in any way.

 

Except for one problem: there's no such thing as a fish. Some aquatic vertebrates formerly-known-as-fish may well lack those higher brain functions, but others may have them. I wouldn't be surprised to learn it was the case with bettas!

To simplify the concept of there not being any such thing as a fish, think of a water creature, dolphins for example, getting interested in keeping the dry-land creatures; the people and the zebras and the pangolins and the spiders, and grouping them all together under a single title. Something like, oh I don't know, Terras. We're not all the same and we don't all have the same brain functions, but we're all grouped together. So a dolphin could look at a spider and say, "oh, Terras don't get depressed, they don't have the higher brain functions," except that it would actually only apply to some species. Because there is no such thing as a Terra!

 

Still doesn't solve the ailment this fish has, regardless of how you may try to rationalize things.

 

May be, but saying it *can't* be depression kind of limits your options for treatment, no?

 

Just a bit of scientific data; https://scholar.google.com/scholar?...a=X&ei=T2PpVLicN4ekyASFhoDoBg&ved=0CBsQgQMwAA

If your concept is valid in any manner you should be able to psychoanalyze this fish. Have at it.

I have ideas that the hiding in the back of the tank in dark places indicates certain things, but would like more information to base this on. It sure isn't depression.

 

Do fish have good mood days? | Fishkeeping Hot Topics Forum | 132756

Links of interest above.

Ken

 

While depression may not be the right term it's well know that some fish feel more secure in groups of their own kind.

Almost anyone who have had a single schooler in their tank then added others of the same species would clearly see the change in demeanor in that previously lone schooling fish.

If someone wants to call that depression when a fish loses a mate or just simply a tank mate, so be it.

There isn't any reason to be sarcastic or demeaning in the responses.

 

If your concept is valid in any manner you should be able to psychoanalyze this fish. Have at it.

I have ideas that the hiding in the back of the tank in dark places indicates certain things, but would like more information to base this on. It sure isn't depression.

Unfortunately we humans are terrible at interspecies communication. Even though we've managed to identify non-human species that possess language we have a real problem with actually using it to interact, or even understand what it means. Yet some of those same animals have learned to use our language. Some species pass the self-awareness test, something that only humans were once thought capable of. If we ever do meet an intelligent alien species I have a feeling that things will not go well because our species is just too dI'm to learn languages that aren't set up in the same way that ours are.

In order to psychoanalyze anyone, shouldn't there be some way of communicating first?

I just think it's premature to say that species can't feel...something...when there's no information. Does anyone know of any studies done on the brains of various aquarium fishes? Have pictures of their brains perhaps from dissections? The size of the brain is not what's important, but the complexity and relative sizes of various structures.

 

Could be many things, need some idea of your setup, routine & such. Please answer as many of these as possible;

1. Size of tank?

2. Water parameters
a. Ammonia?
b. Nitrite?
c. Nitrate?
d. pH, KH and GH?
e. Test kit?

3. Temperature?

4. Freshwater (fresh water) or BW (brackish)?

5. How long the aquarium has been set up?

6. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them?

7. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)?

8. a. Any live plants? Fake plants?
b. Sand, gravel, barebottom?
c. Rocks, woods, fancy decors? Any hollow decors?

9. a. Filtration?
b. Heater?

10. a. Lighting schedule? What lights are used?
b. Any sunlight exposure? How long?

11. a. Water change schedule?
b. Volume of water changed?
c. Well water, tap water, RO water?
d. Water conditioner used?
e. Frequency of gravel/sand (if any) vacuumed?

12. Foods?
How often are they fed?

13. a. Any abnormal signs/symptoms?
b. Appearance of poop?
c. Appearance of gills?

14. a. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis?
b. What meds were used?

15. Insert photos of fish in question and full tank shot if necessary.

I'm sorry, but the question I asked was from a long time ago and I do not think I remember the details.

 

The brain structure is mentioned in the topic Ken linked to; No frontal lobe, the ability to feel emotions is not present. We have to go on science with this, it's the most proven way so far.

I'll agree totally that humans are terrible at interspecies communication, talk to anyone well versed in dog training, it's a huge hurdle to get over for many owners. Anthropomorphism often plays big in that issue as well, and this is with a species more highly evolved than fish. We're always learning of what animals feel, how they perceive the world around them, this is science advancing, which is a good thing. You can take it further, do plants feel, have emotions? What about single celled animals? We're killing bacteria with antibiotics to save our own hide, all the way up to mammals we eat. Huge topic with a lot of thoughts & concepts, could probably start an entire section on this forum for that, much less an individual topic.

As far as terminology, proper terminology is huge when diagnosing an ailment, regardless of species. If I decide to call the ailment I believe this platy has fish dysentery, and the medication needed fishdaz, the owner of this fish won't get very far with treatment. If I call it an outbreak of spironucleus or hexamita, requiring an internal protozoa medication such as metronidazole the OP will be much closer to solving this issue.

In my mind focusing on the platy with the problem should be the focus of this topic. Sure, we all slide off topic on many things, I'm no exception. Let's help the OP & fix up this fish.

I'm sorry, but the question I asked was from a long time ago and I do not think I remember the details.

Current details would be a big help.

 

I'm sorry, but the question I asked was from a long time ago and I do not think I remember the details.

In my mind focusing on the platy with the problem should be the focus of this topic. Sure, we all slide off topic on many things, I'm no exception. Let's help the OP & fix up this fish.

I'm not sure there is an existing problem given the OP's last post.

Interesting discussion either way.

 

Human brain structure is mentioned in that article, but I didn't see anything about other species.

Yep, I've noticed that people tend to blame their pet when all that was needed was to try to get a handle on what the animal was experiencing. They react to the behaviour without looking for what caused it.

To go one step further though, I find the same thing with human-to-human interactions. So many times I've had people get angry at a child (for example) for doing something "on purpose", when even a little thought would reveal that the child needs medical help. I won't go into details, but it was a couple of nurses who were angry with this child when what she needed was emergency surgery. To quote Douglas Adams, "people are a problem."

It probably helps me to not be swayed by emotional considerations because I am missing quite a bit of my limbic system. My emotions are there, but don't rule my life

 

there's no such thing as a fish.

I'm sorry, but what? I would love to see one shred of scientific evidence of this "fact". Tolak is correct. When fish start acting "off" it's because they're sick or because they're in conditions that are unsuitable.

 

I'm sorry, but what? I would love to see one shred of scientific evidence of this "fact". Tolak is correct. When fish start acting "off" it's because they're sick or because they're in conditions that are unsuitable.

Hmmm junebug you should read the rest of what he said.. basically saying a blanket statement that ALL fish can't (fill in the blank) us a little silly.

I would like to add that just because something doesn't work the way something else does, it doesn't mean they don't have the same function. For example fish have gills... we have lungs.. they both serve the function of providing oxygen. So saying that because fish aren't wired the same way we are doesn't mean they don't have feelings even if they are more basic.

 

The great debate!

 

I'm sorry, but what? I would love to see one shred of scientific evidence of this "fact". Tolak is correct. When fish start acting "off" it's because they're sick or because they're in conditions that are unsuitable.

No doubt, that is an excellent thing to assume, but some fish species are less related to each other than we are to other mammals.

The chart included with this page is extremely simplified, but it works:

 

Hmmm junebug you should read the rest of what he said.. basically saying a blanket statement that ALL fish can't (fill in the blank) us a little silly.

I would like to add that just because something doesn't work the way something else does, it doesn't mean they don't have the same function. For example fish have gills... we have lungs.. they both serve the function of providing oxygen. So saying that because fish aren't wired the same way we are doesn't mean they don't have feelings even if they are more basic.

I asked for scientific evidence that there's no such thing as a fish.

Aside from that, using aquatic mammals, long identified as not being fish, as examples is not especially useful in this instance. I did read the whole statement. There was reference to Dolfins at one point. Since Dolfins happen to not be fish, examples using them as evidence should not be considered as accurate examples of the behavior of fish, since they are absolutely not a fish.

Aquaphobia: It seems the point of that article is that there are numerous types of animal that we call "fish". Not that there's no such thing as fish. The statement made at the beginning is obviously designed to grab your attention. Ray finned fishes, lobe finned fishes, and cartilaginous fishes are all types of fish, possibly descended from different common ancestors.

I honestly don't know about lampreys, as I have no experience with them nor have I done any research on them. I suspect they are a type of "fish" too.

 

*Disclamer* please read my signature first.

Depression in fish. Read post #10 (my post) I have witnessed the full range of emotional behavior in close study from ants to dogs.

"modern" science is starting to acknowledge what the tribal people have been teaching for thousands of years. Also it is coming out that intelligence is not based on bulk. Remember that it was "modern" science that held to the geocentric view of the solar system for a very long time, and then later that the milky way was the extent of the universe. I no longer am bothered by the view of "modern" science that if they did not discover it it does not exist or it is to be dismissed. Quantum mechanics is beginning to support some of the ancient teachings.

As for brain size look into the stem people. These are people that live completely normal lives with only a brain stem and a thin coating of brain cells on the inside of the skull the rest is fluid.

Each living cell has the complete blueprint for the construction of the animal. Volumes of information in a single cell. There was a time that the tribes were laughed at for teaching there was sprit force in all things. ChI some call it. Then one day a Russian developed a way to photograph it in living things. "Modern" science now acknowledges that living things create and are surrounded by an electromagnetic field. I could go on at length about the errors of "modern" science and the accuracy of the old teachings.

But in the end it is for each person to come to their own conclusions.

Peace friends peace.

Understanding comes from calm words and a kind delivery.

 

The finned aquatic creatures we group under the title of "fish" are actually not all that similar to each other. To go back to my previous example, it would be like assuming that we terrestrial creatures have similar attributes just because we all happen to share the same habitat. Humans, giant tortoises, horses, hamsters, and salamanders are not closely related. We don't share a common ancestor. Well, neither do fish. Fish have not been as closely studied as mammals so we don't know yet what their cognitive abilities are but it's not impossible that at least some of the species are capable of experiencing emotions of some kind.