Fish bought last night died!!

So it seems that after having a fish free tank for almost 3 weeks, running with only plants in it, adding new fish to it is still like committing mass murder.

Last night we went to Animal Jungle and bought some cheap fish, not like goldfish, but some cherry bars, neon tetras and the like. We did our usual acclimation ritual. Keep in mind, water parameters are null with a PH of 6.5, which for some reason I can't get it raised with baking soda but oh well.

Anyways....

We just woke up and low and behold, half the fish are dead. With white fuzzy stuff. I know this is columnaris, but what I don't get is, was I supposed to treat the tank empty tank from my last fish died from it? Cause this is just ridiculous. Luckily we bought cheap fish that were all less than $3 but now my husband is giving up on it too...ready to break it down and pour bleach all over it.

 

My tank had columnaris, and I agree, it really stinks. I treated with maracyn 2, which didn't make them better, but stopped it from spreading. If you have interests in saving the fish, I would give them a short hydrogen peroxide bath for a few hours- this really helped my angel. So, to get rid of it, I would give them a HP bath, then treat with maracyn and maracyn 2.

Columnaris naturally lives in tanks, but only affects the fish when they get stressed out. I really don't think there's any point in bleaching it, because it naturally lives in tanks, and you'll lose your cycle. I would go without fish for about a week if they die, then get more, a little at a time. If you decide to save them, go with the treatment I suggested, then get a few more fish at a time after a week or two of no symptoms.

 

Did you do any water changes while it was empty and put foodin to keep the cycle I'm not sure how long columneris will survive with out a host but water changes might have helped

 

I'm not sure what you meant by your water parameters being "null". But if you have a non cycled tank, this can add to the stress of newly introduced fish. Plus adding them all at once gives you an ammonia spike. Weakened fish under these circumstances is just asking for trouble.
If there was active columnaris in the tank previously, adding stressed fish to this almost certainly guarantees an outbreak. It is highly contagious and can be passed through using the same tools, buckets, nets, etc.

For the surviving fish, do a large WC, (50%) plus gravel vac, Add aquarium salt, and buy an antibiotic to treat the bacteria. Mardel makes great products. If your temperature is high, lower it by one degree an hour, to about 75 degrees. Higher temps accelerate the disease.

Good luck

 

Dead fish will grow white "fuzz" very quickly, does not necessarily mean they had columnaris. You would see white stuff on the live ones with that.

 

Actually I did do a change and a good gravel vacuum as well. Only other thing I've done to the tank is prune the plants when they started to have brown leaves., as well as a water test or 2.

Should I do straight peroxide or is there a water mix ratio? I always heard of aquarium salt dips but not peroxide.

 

Dead fish will grow white "fuzz" very quickly, does not necessarily mean they had columnaris. You would see white stuff on the live ones with that.

I've had white stuff on fish less than 15 minutes after they passed (only a little, but enough to notice. So I agree, not necessarily columnaris. Unless the living ones have it too I doubt that this is what it is.

 

I don't think you need to treat the tank or peroxide or anything like that. Neons are not very hardy and with your pH being what it is they probably died of pH shock. What is your KH reading? Ammonia? Nitrite? Nitrate? Running the tank for weeks empty without giving it some kind of ammonia source will not cycle it or make it ready for fish. Since you already have fish in there, you'll have to do a fish-in cycle which means testing every day and doing water changes when the ammonia or nitrite read above .25 to get it down to that level. This can take a couple of months to finish. It might be easier to take the fish back and start a fishless cycle.

I also would not recommend adding salt since it doesn't appear your tank would be cycled yet, and salt with ammonia in the water can be harmful to freshwater fish.

 

How were the fish acclimated? When acclimated too fast they will drop like flies.

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How were the fish acclimated? When acclimated too fast they will drop like flies.

Yup! I use the drip method. Takes a bit longer than doing the floating method, but i've lost fewer fish this way.

 

Dead fish will grow white "fuzz" very quickly, does not necessarily mean they had columnaris. You would see white stuff on the live ones with that.

THANK YOU. Seems like there is a columnaris epidemic out there, cause that's all anyone says is responsible for their fish's deaths. Used to be NTD. It takes 2-3 days for columnaris to kill a fish. Skin lesions develop after 1-2 days. The time frame for the deaths that everyone attributes to columnaris just doesn't add up, nor do the symptoms.

 

*head desk* I said the tank crashed due to disease. Not that it was a new tank needing to be cycled. I've had it for over a year and it's cycled. I left it empty after the last of my fish died 3 weeks ago and let it run as it was with just it's plants. The only test kit I have is the API Master liquid so I don't know the hardness. Otherwise, when I say null I mean no ammonia, no nitrates, no nitrites. I covered the lack of nitrates in another post and was told that my plants could be eating them up. The only other thing about the tank that I can say is that on the intake of my HOB filter there is the brown-ish buildup in the holes that keeps growing back after I remove it. It may be elsewhere in the tank but I can't see it easily.

And I know it's columnaris since I had this problem before, and yes, my living fish have the white stuff on them too. Always around the mouth and on the ends of fins.

While the tank was empty, I did 1 water change and a good gravel vac, rinsed 3 of 5 filters in case there was an over population of bacteria, then just left the tank alone after checking parameters. 1 of the filters is an ammonia remover. 2 days ago, I replaced 1 carbon filter, rinsed the ammonia remover and left all the others alone.

As for acclimation.... my method is putting the fish and the water they came with in the bucket I use for the aquarium, and slowly adding water from my tank to it until it reaches the tank's temp and is steady for about a half hour. However...my husband wanted to float the bags the fish were in. After harping on him, he started to add some tank water to the bags. After over an hour, I put the fish in the tank. After putting them in, they all looked fine. No erratic behavior.

So what I'd like is some good advice on the issue of the disease, cause I know that's the problem.

THANK YOU. Seems like there is a columnaris epidemic out there, cause that's all anyone says is responsible for their fish's deaths. Used to be NTD. It takes 2-3 days for columnaris to kill a fish. Skin lesions develop after 1-2 days. The time frame for the deaths that everyone attributes to columnaris just doesn't add up, nor do the symptoms.

I was told that depending on the strain, columnaris can kill within 24 hours, if not over the course of a few days.

 

Thank you for the extra information, because you did not mention all that in your OP. I still think running the tank empty for three weeks would have killed your cycle, and Jaysee is right, you wouldn't see death that quickly from columnaris.

 

I was told that depending on the strain, columnaris can kill within 24 hours, if not over the course of a few days.

Ah, I didn't now your back story. That would be one aggressive bacteria, if it killed your fish overnight. I would completely start over from scratch and throw everything out.



I wouldn't even want to stick my hands in the tank.......

 

I agree with the idea that you lost your cycle. Three weeks is a long time to go without a significant source of ammonia.

The stress of an ammonia spike, different water chemistry, and possibly poor care by the store/previous owners most likely added up to extremely weak fish, vulnerable to infection and rapid death.

 

How can there be stress from an ammonia spike if there is no ammonia, like I said? I'm making my diagnosis based on what I see, and I see fish with white fuzzy stuff on their fins and mouths.

You all also seem to forget that I do have plants in my tank, that do slough off any dead leaves and such, along with the trimmings that I leave behind that I can't grab up. So technically, there is something feeding the tank to keep up the cycle.

Regardless, I was able to grab the Jungle Fungus Clear, as it was said many times in other forums that it's antibacterial, not antifungal, despite labeling. I also grabbed Jungle Lifeguard all in one, though I haven't used it yet as I don't know if it can be used with the fungus clear and I didn't want to overkill with chemicals on the first day. I added some Pimafix to help with healing and a bit of aquarium salt after doing a 50% water change.

I seriously can't see how this is all the result of ammonia stress, since as I said, there is no ammonia, ammonium maybe, but no ammonia. I can see the trip from the store to the tank being stressful and causing them to become weak and sick, as well as my husband's idea of acclimation of the fish. I have mentioned several times in other posts that my tank keeps growing the brownish furry looking stuff, that kinda flakes off like skin (??). Nobody has said anything about that, so I guess I'll have to see what I can find in the forums about it. I think that may be a contributing factor in all this, as it appeared the same night 3 weeks ago when my tank was wiped out of fish, and hasn't really gone away despite my efforts in removing it. Oh, and the store I get most of my fish from, takes very good care of their stock and their staff is always knowledgeable. I can make that judgment based on the fact that their live bearer tanks always have fry in them. It's not a chain store, but a very large local owned store.

 

I have kept planted tanks with no livestock for a month and didn't lose the cycle. With the plant leaves dying back they become the ammonia source.

The one thing that is concerning is the short time to acclimate the new purchases. If there was a large difference in chemistry, this may have stressed the fish. But, it was not noticed. 30-60 minutes is not very long for the fish to adapt to any possible change in pH, hardness, or any other difference in the store water.

It does sound to me like columnaris is rampant in your tank. The white cottony fluff and quick deaths are fairly typical. There are a couple of different approaches that you may want to consider.

1. Give fish a hydrogen peroxide bath. This cannot be done to labyrinth fish however. Add 2ml hydrogen peroxide per gallon of dechlorinated water. This bath requires a heater core to maintain temperature in the low 70s; and an airstone to keep the water oxygenated. Leave fish in this bath for up to 12 hours. Then return to tank.

2. Treat tank with meds. Using both Maracyn 1 and 2 simultaneously does seem to help stop columnaris.

3. Run UV Sterilizer with a new bulb constantly for the next month or two. UV is known to kill many pathogens.

What ever path you decide to take, keep the tank temperature low 70s. Columnaris is greatly slowed in the cooler temperature and may help to buy you some time to save your remaining fish.

Good luck!

 

Only brownish stuff I know of are Diatoms. It comes off easily but returns quickly.

I'm another that has dealt with Columnaris. I'm sorry.

 

Can anyone give me a quick run through on diatoms?

 

I believe diatoms are a form of algae most common in newly cycled tanks. They're said to be harmless and go away in a few weeks.

 

What ever path you decide to take, keep the tank temperature low 70s. Columnaris is greatly slowed in the cooler temperature and may help to buy you some time to save your remaining fish.

Good luck!

Also, removing the carbon is said to help.

 

So I went through several articles on diatoms. Then crossed an all purpose algae article that just confused me. It talked about the diatoms and how they're harmless but it also mentioned blue/ green algae that can also be brown, is slimy, covers everything just like diatoms but is toxic and is actually a cyanobacteria(sp?) So now I don't know what's going on

 

The easiest way to tell cyano from diatoms is to attempt to rub it off the surface it is attached to. Diatoms will flake away and come off very easily. If heavily covered, it can look a bit like a dust storm.

Cyano is much more difficult to lift and when it does, it comes off in sheets that are a bit fragile. Meaning that once lifted off the hard surface they fall apart. This makes it difficult to remove.

 

I'm a bit concerned about your statement of water parameters being null at 6.5. That is not true. I've been raising fish and shrimp for years at low Ph levels. Water parameters are never null and very important. It is true that as Ph is lower, bacteria grows less until you get to Ph 6 or less. Even then there is some bacteria but water changes become more important. Every one of my tanks has had and did cycle at low Ph levels....from 6.2 to 6.8. Cycling can take longer at low Ph levels and ammonia spikes can come seemly nowhere.
Once cycled the tanks will become more stable... the trick is Kh and Gh levels must be maintained.
At a ph of your level, your tank can be treated as normal and must cycle as any other tank would.

 

I just go by what my API kit tells me for water parameters. I also use a Seachem ammonia reader to avoid freakouts and rash decisions, since it only reads the No3 and not the No4, which the API kit reads both. From what I've learned here on the forums, the ammonium will become more of it's toxic form ammonia as the ph rises. In the meantime it still gets converted to the nitrites then the nitrates. Leaving my plants to take up the nitrates. I had no fish in the tank for several weeks, so those levels are low or zeroed out. Also, because of the constant water changes I'd been doing to lower the ammonia a while back, I obviously can't keep a mid range PH. And last night the ph finally went up after adding baking soda after the water change and meds I put in.

As for the diatoms/cyano, the best way I can describe the stuff in my tank is I have to stir up the gravel a bit to get the stuff off and I have seen some of it come off other surfaces in thin sheets. Otherwise, when left alone, it looks gritty stuck to surfaces and gravel. And my filter media always come out brown.

 

Brown algae is in every tank with a good source of light I've ever seen I wouldn't worry to much about it maby get another pleco or a couple small ones