Fish at surface after water change

Just did a 60% water change on my month old tank,I have 4 zebra danios,3 mickey mouse platies,5 rasboras and 2 emerald cories,also have some plants.After water change,all but cories are at the top gasping for air,chlorine at 0,nirite and nitrate at 0,amonia is reading at .5 on test strip.Used API Stress coat with new waterand stress zyme,just added API Ammolock,,I'm I doing something wrong here,,,,help!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Whats the temperature of the water, if its to high the water might not have as much oxygen in it, do you have a bubbler for extra water movement? Not only that, but your Nitrogen Cycle might not be complete, and probabley isnt, heres a link to some information on it, https://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm
You probabley need to look into getting some TSS ( Tetra Safe Start )
The ammonia is rather high, that is why you need TSS, and on a side note cories are schooling fish, and need more than 1 buddy

 

Curious as to why you did such a huge water change. The most I ever do unless one of my parameters is off the charts is 15%.
I'd be using a product like Seachem Prime during water changes. It immediately detoxifies ammonia in all its forms. It should be all you need. I'm a bit leary of the "bacteria in a bottle" products like Stress Zyme. Generally speaking, it's land-based bacteria they're using to create the bio-filter, not aquatic-based, so you have to keep adding it with every water change and your natural bio-filter (cycle) never establishes because it's got this funky land-based stuff in the way eating all the available food (i.e.-ammonia and nitrites). Also, your nitrates should NEVER be at 0 unless your tank isn't cycled or your have TONS of plants (not just "some," but practically more plants than fish). So to me it sounds like your tank isn't cycled, even though it's been running for a month (possibly due to the Stress Zyme).

 

Temp is at 78,reason I did a large water change is I read in a book by Boruchowitz that the more the better.....can I do anything now to help my fish,new to this and don't want to start all over,thanks...

 

Go and buy some TSS at the next available time, now read the link in my other post, Yes water changes can help, but to much or to frequently can cause stress, try to do some more research, and hang out around the forum,
Welcome to Fishlore by the way ;D

 

Thanks FishHobbiest,will do.

 

I would start doing daily 40-50% water changes WITHOUT the Stress Zyme until you can get some Tetra SafeStart. If you can't afford the SafeStart, get some Prime and keep up the 50% daily water changes with Prime until your parameters read:
0 ammonia
0 nitrites
5-20 nitrates

 

Glad to help

 

Just got done doing a 40%water change,only added API tap water conditioner this time,fish back to normal now,thanks so much for the help,this site is awesome!!!!Will be buying TSS in the morning.

 

Good luck, and I'm sorry to tell you this, but Water Test Strips are rather ineffective, and after nearly losing my hair trying to get accurate results I had to buy the Master Test Kit,
its very effective, and its well worth it in the long run

 

Will do,good night all...

 

I would ditch the test strips and get the API (liquid) Master Test Kit if you can afford it. Test strips don't give accurate readings. But you deff have ammonia poisoning going on. Getting a bottle of Sechem Prime for a water conditioner is the best when cycling with fish. It's converts ammonia into a non-toxic form but leaves it available for the nitrifying bacteria and also detoxis nitrites when they start to appear, along with NitrAtes. NitrAtes are toxic at high amounts so you want to aI'm for 5-10. Doing partial water changes daily with Prime is an option.

I too agree with ditching the Stress Zyme it doesn't work properly.

Here's a link below on how to use TSS if you go that route. Since you already have fish there's info in there on how to proceed in using it when you have ammonia readings. Note: TSS should only be used with a dechlorinator and not one with a ammonia detoxer in it. You will need to do a large water change first since you added Stress Zyme & ammo lock and just use a dechlorinator.

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/q-a-with-tetra-about-tetra-safestart.58116/

 

Bought TSS and API master test kit today,did a water change last night to rid tank of all other additives(stress zyme,ammolock,etc.),just added the TSS 5 minutes ago,keeping my fingers crossed!!lol...

 

My tetras have been hanging out at the surface for the better part of 2 days now, after the ammonia level in the tank spiked up to 4 ppm and I did 45% water changes twice over a two day period to get it back down to 1 - 1.5 ppm. After that was done, this is when the tetras (not the gourami so much) started migrating toward the top of the tank. This is where I made my error I think.

After I discovered 3 of the fish contracted ich, I did some research on it, I also came across the importance of water aeration. I noticed that I had filled the aquarium all up to the output of the filter.... oops. So I did a water change to help with the ich, and filled the tank to about 2 inches below the output of the filter and I also did some manual aeration with a glass.

Expecting the fish to go about their business again, the tetras went back to the surface of the water again, but are now hanging out exclusively at the output of the filter.

Can I expect this to change anytime soon? With all of this happening, I'm still trying to cycle the tank. The ammonia is still around 1.5 ppm, no nitrites, and 5 ppm nitrates.

 

well your fish are stressed, your tank is partly cycled I believe, since you have nitrates you are in the end of the cycle

as for ich, pump up your temp to 86*, do it slowly, and add air stones, do gravel vacs every other day for 2-3 weeks and your fish will be fine

the reason the fish are hanging near the top is because they don't have enough oxygen anywhere else, unless you have a high GPH, you would need an air stone IMO

I suggest doing water changes every other day to deal with ich spores falling of your fish and controlling your ammonia levels

GL

 

Unfortunately my tank is nowhere near cycled, even after nearly a month. I have never had a nitrite reading. I have more TSS on the way in the mail for a second dose of it.

The tetras prior to this past weekend have always been toward the middle-bottom of the tank. I have been using the same filter since the beginning which is rated for 100 GPH.

I haven't had a problem with the oxygen levels until I filled the tank all the way up over the weekend. Can I expect the oxygen levels to stabilize again anytime soon since I corrected it and have proper aeration again?

 

well if you raise the level of the water line, less agitation will occur, you need agitation to supply air to your fish

well that's one problem you need to fix, hopefully your second dose of TSS will be a positive one

 

well your fish are stressed, your tank is partly cycled I believe, since you have nitrates you are in the end of the cycle

as for ich, pump up your temp to 86*, do it slowly, and add air stones, do gravel vacs every other day for 2-3 weeks and your fish will be fine

the reason the fish are hanging near the top is because they don't have enough oxygen anywhere else, unless you have a high GPH, you would need an air stone IMO

I suggest doing water changes every other day to deal with ich spores falling of your fish and controlling your ammonia levels

GL

I couldn't have said that any better. Although personally I find that the ich goes away relatively faster if you do the gravel vacs daily... it will only help the cycle and would remove the ich spores sooner..

EDIT: Why didn't I finish reading the whole thread! if you are using TSS, I don't know if the waterchanges will mess with it.. but from what I remember you're supposed to let TSS do the magic on its own.. but I don't remember very well, so lets see what other members that have experience with TSS have to say about it..

 

well if you raise the level of the water line, less agitation will occur, you need agitation to supply air to your fish

well that's one problem you need to fix, hopefully your second dose of TSS will be a positive one

I lowered the level of the water line back to where I usually have it.... about 2 1/2 inches below the top of the tank, which is about 1 1/2 inches below the filter output. How long does it usually take for the oxygen levels to raise back to normal? Should I continue to intermittently do manual aeration?

 

I lowered the level of the water line back to where I usually have it.... about 2 1/2 inches below the top of the tank, which is about 1 1/2 inches below the filter output. How long does it usually take for the oxygen levels to raise back to normal? Should I continue to intermittently do manual aeration?

I am not sure about that, but lowering your water line would help a great deal, the more surface agitation the better, but if you get a air pump, one of your problems will be solved, maybe you want to invest in one??

 

Question: why did ur first tss not work? how are you doing ur weekly cleaning? If ur cleaning ur media it should be in tank water not tap water. And when filling the water up are you filling directly on ur filter? Unplug ur filter when you add water. Then add water throw in some prime then after ur done filling then turn on the filter. Tss works within a week not a month, unless ur doing something wrong. And when you add tss are you adding something with it? Do not put prime with tss it cancels the tss out. Add the prime first wait 24 then add the tss.

Hope this helps

 

Question: why did ur first tss not work? how are you doing ur weekly cleaning? If ur cleaning ur media it should be in tank water not tap water. And when filling the water up are you filling directly on ur filter? Unplug ur filter when you add water. Then add water throw in some prime then after ur done filling then turn on the filter. Tss works within a week not a month, unless ur doing something wrong. And when you add tss are you adding something with it? Do not put prime with tss it cancels the tss out. Add the prime first wait 24 then add the tss.

Hope this helps

I'm not entirely sure why the first dose of TSS did not work, but I do have a pretty good idea why. I'm thinking it is because I did a water change and used Aqua Safe for the clean water just prior to adding the TSS. There was also not enough ammonia in the tank (only 0.3 ppm at that time) to support the bacteria and they died off.... this is despite adding 6 tetras and a pleco. I have never had a nitrite reading and the tank has been set up for nearly a month. I used TSS 2 1/2 weeks after the initial tank set-up. Prior to that I used Stress Zyme on 3/23 and 3/31. I added TSS on 4/9.

I always clean the media in tank water.

The filter is a HOB type, I cannot pour water back there. Only the front.

I didn't know it made a difference having the filter unplugged. I don't see the reasoning behind that though?

I have never needed a reason to use prime. I do water changes regularly enough and large enough. I have done 4 water changes over the past 9 days, 3 of them being 40% or more since last Friday.

As far as the air pump goes Maxima, I'll probably have to invest in one, even though it seems I was getting enough aeration before, unless the oxygen started depleting before I had overfilled the water line.

Here's my current aquarium set-up so you can see the aeration first-hand:

 

The filter is a HOB type, I cannot pour water back there. Only the front.

I didn't know it made a difference having the filter unplugged. I don't see the reasoning behind that though?

I have never needed a reason to use prime. I do water changes regularly enough and large enough. I have done 4 water changes over the past 9 days, 3 of them being 40% or more since last Friday.

As far as the air pump goes Maxima, I'll probably have to invest in one, even though it seems I was getting enough aeration before, unless the oxygen started depleting before I had overfilled the water line.

Here's my current aquarium set-up so you can see the aeration first-hand:

Prime Question: Do you know what prime does? Doing water changes with out a water conditioner is not doing anything but killing ur fish. Water has Certain chemicals and medias that need to be removed otherwise it will harm the fish. And this is what prime does.
Aqua Safe- Not too sure about aqua safe but I guess its fine, as long as ur using some type of water conditioner. Most prefer prime because it also detoxifies the Nitrate and nitrite while at the same time removing "X" harmful substance.


Filter Question- Unplugging it while you are refillling the water will ensure that the pump does not suck up the tap water and kill the BB. If ur pouring the water where the filter intake tube is then ur basically pouring tap water into the filter media itself.

 

I'm not really sure why you're first batch of TSS didn't work. Aquasafe is a good dechlorinator and doesn't lock up ammonia so it is compatible for TSS. .3 Ammonia is more than enough food for them in addition to the fish waste. Maybe you just got a bad batch.

Anyways just keep up with the water changes and make sure to add dechlorinator to the tap water before adding it to the tank. Hopefully the second batch of TSS works out better. Also you should always turn the filter off when you change the water. You risk running it on dry and with splashing water everywhere you risk water getting into somewhere it isn't supposed to be. Just be sure to put water in the HOB before you turn it back on.

I highly suggest getting an air pump attached to a sponge filter. Its a great way to add some additional bio-filtration as well as aeration. Tetra Whisper air pumps are silent and pretty cheap. Make sure to get a check valve to prevent the pump from flooding itself.

 

Tetra Whisper air pumps are silent and pretty cheap. Make sure to get a check valve to prevent the pump from flooding itself.

LOL my tetra whisper 50 is the loudest in my room. My FX5 and other Canister are so quiet I can't hear them. LOL

 

Your fish are probably at the surface because of the ammonia. Any ammonia above 0 is stressful, even lethal to the fish. You are on the way to being cycled with your nitrate reading. Prime will detox the ammonia to protect the fish, but you can't use Prime with TSS. Here is a good post about TSS: https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/q-a-with-tetra-about-tetra-safestart.58116/

If I were you, I would do 50% water changes with Prime or Amquel+ (to detox the ammonia). I would save the TSS for another tank start. Adding it now, you can't rescue your fish from the ammonia and might lose them.

Best of luck with your tank. It's hard work to cycle with fish, but once you are done, you will be able to sit back and enjoy your fish. Your tank looks really good.

Edit: Those 50% water changes should be daily until the ammonia drops to 0.

 

Ammonia poisoning causes gill damage. Deal with the ammonia and you should see this behavior change.

 

Your fish are probably at the surface because of the ammonia. Any ammonia above 0 is stressful, even lethal to the fish. You are on the way to being cycled with your nitrate reading. Prime will detox the ammonia to protect the fish, but you can't use Prime with TSS. Here is a good post about TSS: https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/q-a-with-tetra-about-tetra-safestart.58116/

If I were you, I would do 50% water changes with Prime or Amquel+ (to detox the ammonia). I would save the TSS for another tank start. Adding it now, you can't rescue your fish from the ammonia and might lose them.

Best of luck with your tank. It's hard work to cycle with fish, but once you are done, you will be able to sit back and enjoy your fish. Your tank looks really good.

Edit: Those 50% water changes should be daily until the ammonia drops to 0.

I read the Q&A very carefully before I added my first dose of TSS. The nitrate reading is deceiving because I've always had a nitrate reading since the beginning. There is most likely nitrate in the tap water already. Like I said before, I have never had a nitrite reading.

 

At this stage of the game, if I were you, and for the sake of your fish, I would do 50% water changes daily, using Prime as a dechlorinator. Do NOT add anything else to the tank.

When you do your water changes, do solid gravel vacs at least twice a week (because of the ich spores.... if you did not have ich, I would prefer you didn't do the gravel vac at all on an uncycled tank).

What test kit are you using? Did I miss that?

 

At this stage of the game, if I were you, and for the sake of your fish, I would do 50% water changes daily, using Prime as a dechlorinator. Do NOT add anything else to the tank.

When you do your water changes, do solid gravel vacs at least twice a week (because of the ich spores.... if you did not have ich, I would prefer you didn't do the gravel vac at all on an uncycled tank).

What test kit are you using? Did I miss that?

+1 to LyndaB. If you use TSS at this point, you can't add anything to neutralize the ammonia. Your fish will suffer and maybe die.

I'm wishing you luck with your cycle. Do you have access to media (filter media, substrate) that you could add to the tank to give it a jump start?

 

Yes Lynda, this is turning out to be a very tough situation with the ich complicating matters.... now my gourami has it, but the fish are hanging in there. I doesn't look like the pleco caught the ich, but I'm sure it will. I'm holding the temp at 84 degrees hoping rid the parasite that way. I was tempted to pick up some meds, but that would mean messing with the filter media and I really don't want to do that.

My LFS doesn't carry Prime, but they do carry Amquel, so I picked up a bottle of that, an air pump and a 6" long rod-type air stone. I'm getting about 50 times more oxygenation for the tetras and pleco now, of course oxygenation isn't so much an issue for the gourami.

The TSS hasn't come in the mail yet, so I'll have to keep doing water changes (I've used a gravel vac during every water change) to keep the ammonia down and use the Amquel to snuff out what ever is left. In the beginning I was using test strips, but last week I picked up a liquid master test kit.

What I'm hoping will happen is that while I have the temperature up on the tank, it'll speed up the cycle process after I get around to adding the TSS, not to mention any cycling the tank has done so far, and kill off the ich simultaneously. Unfortunately I don't have access to established media or gravel, or that would've been my first choice over even the TSS.

I know there's a chance the tetra will die (I already lost 2 prior to this situation), sadly enough, but if I can at least save the gourami and pleco I should be good.

Strangely enough though, even after detoxing the water and adding the air stone, the tetras are still at the top of the tank.

I'm surprised nobody has responded in 24 hours. Unfortunately I lost 2 of the tetras (that's 4 total now). Am I that bad of a fishkeeper? I'm doing everything I can to save these fish and it almost seems futile.

Merged back to back posts.
Ken

 

No you are not a bad fishkeeper, you are learning on your feet which can be very tough. Its pretty common due to the usual pet store advice. Sometimes people are fighting a losing fight. All you can really do now is keep doing water changes until the TSS arrives and wait.

I'm sorry you lost your tetras, its hard to lose something when you put so much effort into it.

 

I won't be surprised if I lose all the tetras, although the remaining ones that are alive aren't as bad off as the ones that died today. They were the males and I could tell last night they were really bad off. They had pretty much nipped each other to pieces from the stress. I just hope my gourami hangs in there. I've kept the ammonia down to 0.5 and below the last couple of days, so that's encouraging.

 

Did you see them nipping or were their fins just torn? High ammonia levels can cause torn fins which can lead to further infection.

 

It looked more like nipping than lacerations from torn fins.

The most frustrating thing is I have never seen a nitrite reading since I started the tank 4 weeks ago, even with that first dose of TSS. Something I am doing or not doing is causing the bacteria from not flourishing. I'll have the second dose of TSS on Saturday, so I'll be crossing my fingers.

 

Check the water straight out of the tap to be sure.

 

Yeah, I think I'll have to. Test for just the pH I assume?

I lost another tetra this morning, it looks like 2 more are on the way out. The gourami is still eating, which is a good sign. I'm not sure about the pleco though... it seems stressed, but I don't notice any ich. Are plecos more resistant to ich because of his armor?

 

You want to test for ammonia nitrite and nitrate, the pH of the tank will probably be similar to whatever comes out of the tap. sorry about the loss, ich can be tough. He can still get ich, how does he seem stressed?

 

He's been clinging to the aquarium walls.... usually he's resting inside the tree trunk. The gourami is stressed I can tell. He was very relaxed when I first got him, but now he's very skiddish. The tetras are just plain whacked out and lethargic... They're not going to make it through the night. Tomorrow I'll have to medicate the tank it looks like. I don't want the gourami and the pleco to meet the same fate.

I tested for ammonia after performing 60% water change. This is also the 6th water change since last weekend. I got the ammonia down to 0.15 ppm. The nitrites are still at zero, and nitrates around 5 ppm.

Strangely enough the pH of the water shot up to 8.4! I'm not sure what's going on with that, it's usually around 6.8 - 7.2. I also tested the tap water, and it's 8.8.

 

A lot of water changes with 8.8pH water will bring the pH up. Plecos will attach to wall alot, so I wouldn't worry about that. What do you mean by skiddish for the gourami? You might just be seeing regular behavior.