First fish tank: Dirted, Natural, Jungle Tank

Do you have an API Master test kit? Liquid test kit for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH? You should be testing daily at this point given what's going on in the tank. My guess is the tank is releasing massive amounts of ammonia/nitrite or you pH is all over the place ,etc. May need more details on the type of topsoil you used (brand name etc) to make sure we didn't miss anything there.

I do, and have been testing daily as you recommended. For the past week there has been zero fluctuation in ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. All readings are zero. Zero nitrates in a planted tank makes sense as the plants should be soaking them up. PH has been consistent. If it was fluctuation within my water parameters, the other fish would be feeling the effects as well, especially the more fragile otos. The otos are doing fine, so are the shrimp.

The organic potting soil used is . Organic potting soil, so no chemicals/fertilizer are released into the water.

You used that black sand stuff. I used ecocomplete. It's a pain to plant in but it's really good in letting water circulate in the substrate. I am concerned you sand may be too compact and not let water circulate below.

Honestly, I think this is my biggest issue aside from making the substrate too deep. Countless people have used the BDBS stuff with no issues, but I think this stuff is way too compact. It is definitely choking my substrate. I have been poking my substrate for several weeks now, everyday. I actually gassed my shrimp and killed 3 out of 17 or so. (in previous entry) Everything seems under control now regarding the H2S, but my goodness is it a pain.

I thought about Malaysian trumpet snails, as they will burrow into the substrate; however, through research I also found that they are known to attach and harm the other inhabitants. I hoping that the roots of the swords and sag sub. will spread throughout the soil and oxygenate the substrate through root oxygenation.

It has been such a rough start that I debated just starting all over again. I started this journey on some very bad advice and some miscalculated inferences; and would change a lot of things regarding the tank. If it wasn't for all the shrimp that I would have to move I think I would. The thought of corralling the plants, wood, otos, shrimp and danios and moving them to another tank seems daunting. The next couple of days I will decide if "starting over" is the best course of action. I would purchase another tank, make the necessary modifications from the original endeavor and cycle the tank. After cycling, I could transfer the inhabitants over from the old tank.

I really think that the danios had something wrong with them. If it was an issue with the water the other inhabitants would be feeling the effects.

Things I would definitely change:

1. Change the depth of the substrate to the recommended depth. I tried to overthink this and it caused problems
2. Definitely would not use Black Diamond Blasting Sand. The stuff is way too compact. I actually think some small areas of the soil were dry before I poked the substrate

 

I wish I saw this earlier, you can't do 2-3 inches of soil, that tank will be sulfur city and everything will die.

You have to tear it down and rebuild it with 1/2" of soil.

You should read Ecology of the Planted Aquarium by Diana Walstad it covers this in detail.https://www.amazon.com/Ecology-Planted-Aquarium-Diana-Walstad/dp/0967377366

 

I wish I saw this earlier, you can't do 2-3 inches of soil, that tank will be sulfur city and everything will die.

You have to tear it down and rebuild it with 1/2" of soil.

You should read Ecology of the Planted Aquarium by Diana Walstad it covers this in detail.Ecology of the Planted Aquarium: A Practical Manual and Scientific Treatise for the Home Aquarist: Diana Walstad: 9780967377360: Amazon.com: Books

I did read that book several times before I started. (did around 3-4 months of research before I attempted an aquarium) I summed my thoughts out previously but here they are regarding the deeper substrate:

I believe I tried to outthink the customary practices based on some heavy research and it cost me.
1. I made the substrate a little too deep
1a. I made it deeper than the suggested 1.5 inches to allow room for extensive root growth. I know amazon sword roots can dominate a tank, so I tried to make extra accommodations.

2. I knew that I ran the risk of creating anoxic conditions in the substrate by increasing the soil depth
2a. I was alright with that as anoxic zones can help with the denitrification process.
2b. In addition, I estimated that due to the heavily planted nature of the tank, oxygen would take care of any H2S that made it way to the water column as H2S is neutralized in the presence of O2. If there wasn't enough O2 to neutralize the H2S, then my fish would already be dead from lack of oxygen.

It seems as though those assumptions are wrong.

I think this aquarium can still work and doesn't necessarily need a complete teardown due to the O2 neutralizing the H2S, but agreed, it isn't ideal.

 

I did read that book several times before I started. (did around 3-4 months of research before I attempted an aquarium) I summed my thoughts out previously but here they are regarding the deeper substrate:

I believe I tried to outthink the customary practices based on some heavy research and it cost me.
1. I made the substrate a little too deep
1a. I made it deeper than the suggested 1.5 inches to allow room for extensive root growth. I know amazon sword roots can dominate a tank, so I tried to make extra accommodations.

2. I knew that I ran the risk of creating anoxic conditions in the substrate by increasing the soil depth
2a. I was alright with that as anoxic zones can help with the denitrification process.
2b. In addition, I estimated that due to the heavily planted nature of the tank, oxygen would take care of any H2S that made it way to the water column as H2S is neutralized in the presence of O2. If there wasn't enough O2 to neutralize the H2S, then my fish would already be dead from lack of oxygen.

It seems as though those assumptions are wrong.

I think this aquarium can still work and doesn't necessarily need a complete teardown due to the O2 neutralizing the H2S, but agreed, it isn't ideal.

It's still going to stink.

You could run straight O2 if you wanted....but why not just do a tear down?

 

It's still going to stink.

You could run straight O2 if you wanted....but why not just do a tear down?

Because H2S is no longer an issue; I have it under control (I believe) to where it isn't hurting my inhabitants. It will take continued precaution, but the tank does not smell. There is enough dissolved oxygen in the tank to neutralize any hydrogen sulfide. (7.6-8.4ppm) If the hydrogen sulfide were the issue, I would have a tank full of dead animals. The only thing I have to consider is the plant growth.

Starting again is one option:
"It has been such a rough start that I debated just starting all over again. I started this journey on some very bad advice and some miscalculated inferences; and would change a lot of things regarding the tank. If it wasn't for all the shrimp that I would have to move I think I would. The thought of corralling the plants, wood, otos, shrimp and danios and moving them to another tank seems daunting. The next couple of days I will decide if "starting over" is the best course of action. I would purchase another tank, make the necessary modifications from the original endeavor and cycle the tank. After cycling, I could transfer the inhabitants over from the old tank."

This will take more money and living space though, so I have to consider that as well.

 

This might be obvious, so sorry if you considered it and decided against it for some reason, but would it be easier to scoop most of black sand out and put something else instead? Bit of gravel?

 

This might be obvious, so sorry if you considered it and decided against it for some reason, but would it be easier to scoop most of black sand out and put something else instead? Bit of gravel?

If you disturb the dirt you make an instant messaging of your tank....so he's kinda right about it being easier to build a new one and move the inhabitants over.

 

This might be obvious, so sorry if you considered it and decided against it for some reason, but would it be easier to scoop most of black sand out and put something else instead? Bit of gravel?

If you disturb the dirt you make an instant messaging of your tank....so he's kinda right about it being easier to build a new one and move the inhabitants over.

Yep, this.

But I do appreciate the suggestions!

With the fine "sand" and the soil, I would have a huge mess on my hands; plus I don't know if the sensitive Otos will recover from that. Unfortunately that is a huge drawback of a dirted tank.

 

Yep, this.

But I do appreciate the suggestions!

With the fine "sand" and the soil, I would have a huge mess on my hands; plus I don't know if the sensitive Otos will recover from that. Unfortunately that is a huge drawback of a dirted tank.

Well I hope it works out in the long run, heavy root feeders will probably like the 3" of soil.

 

Well I hope it works out in the long run, heavy root feeders will probably like the 3" of soil.

Thank you Inner10 for your input; it is much appreciated! And thanks for the encouragement. All most all plants in the tank are Echinodorus (amazon sword: heavy root feeders) now by design. Lets hope the roots quickly take over the entirety of the substrate eliminating the remaining threat of H2S through root oxygenation. Otherwise I might just start a new. I will continue to carefully monitor the aquarium daily and basically let it decide which course is the best course.

 

You may consider keeping it a plants only tank if you don't want to break it down. I would be careful if you do break it down. Run airstones for several days to oxygenate, maybe even completely stir it up and keep the airstones for another few days. Oxygen will help neutralize the Hydrogen sulfide. I would have ample ventilation, so you don't get knocked out by the fumes etc. when you do take the tank apart. Don't underestimate how bad it will smell once you remove the cap.

Don't beat yourself up about your failed experiment. Diana Walstad tested things for years, is a trained microbiologist and had her book reviewed by other experts prior to publication. What you don't see is all her failed experiments. So, in some ways, she already found an answer that worked. You tweaked it, which is great, but now you are back in"research mode". Think of all the bad light bulbs Edison had to go through before finding the one that worked. Except most of us don't have time for that! I for one just followed her book and it worked for me.

My first one didn't work. My second tank worked great. First one had sand. Second one had ecocomplete . That's my journey. You mileage may vary

 

Don't beat yourself up about your failed experiment. Diana Walstad tested things for years, is a trained microbiologist and had her book reviewed by other experts prior to publication. What you don't see is all her failed experiments. So, in some ways, she already found an answer that worked. You tweaked it, which is great, but now you are back in"research mode". Think of all the bad light bulbs Edison had to go through before finding the one that worked. Except most of us don't have time for that! I for one just followed her book and it worked for me.

Wow, well said bigdreams . I wish I could like this several times. I just wasn't smart enough to think about this, oh well, lesson learned.

Speaking of back in research mode, whether I start another tank and transfer the shrimp/fish over or continue with this one; I do want to see the effect of anoxic zones on plant's root systems. Are plants able to spread their root systems into anoxic zones? In several months, I'll pull out one of the swords to examine the roots. If the root system is extensive, then I can guess that through root oxygenation the roots were able to neutralize the H2S. If the roots are stunted or even black in some area, I can postulate that the aforementioned capability isn't possible.

So either way I go, I should be able to turn this into a learning experience.

 

I wouldn't pull out the Amazon sword to examine root in a few months. It will have expanded all over the tank by then. You will end up with a disaster. When I moved my Amazon sword , I pulled it up and clipped the roots, leaving the vast majority in the substrate. Once you Pierce the cap, all that dirt will float up like a minI volcano. Dirted tanks are "set it and forget it" for rooted plants like swords. If you want to rearrange plants all day, go with Stratum or other substrate. Soil is not for you .

 

Btw, the potting soil you used, has MycoTone , some water retention additive. Wouldn't be surprised if that killed your fish. The miracle gro organic stuff doesn't have any of that stuff, which is why Walstad recommends it. I think I would start over actually if I were you. Really need to be careful with the labels.

Here's a suggestion: go over to Dustin's Fish tanks and buy his dirt. Foolproof. His whole business is around dirted tanks. He has great plants too. One stop shop.

 

bigdreams ,
I think I will be starting a new tank next weekend. Unfortunately, I think I should just probably cut my loses with this first one. I will be transferring over the inhabitants to the new tank once it is cycled. Then I can remove the substrate in the current tank and re-purpose.

I know you recommended Eco Complete substrate. It looks as though this doesn't need a cap? Is that correct?

What depth would you recommend. 1 inch or 1.5 inch?

I think I might go this route as it looks easier than just potting soil. Thanks for any insights.