First Aquarium Lots Of Problems, Lots Of Questions

Hello everyone,

Like the title says, I'm really stuggling getting my tank to the right parameters. About 6 weeks ago, I was about to leave for a 2 week trip and I wanted to get my tank up before leaving so as to shorten the cycle. I was really under the gun so I just barely had time to hook up the filter before leaving for the airport. Essentially, I hooked up the filter, added some fish food and bacteria (Topfin Readistart nitrifying bacteria), dropped in the two pieces of grape wood I had already been soaking for a week) and left. When I arrived back home, the tank water was dark brown, stank, and had a 1/4 inch of viscous goo on the surface. The grape wood was also coated with the goo. I have read that the wood itself is the source of the slime. Anyway, I cleaned all the goo and the wood and did a 90% water change. This was about 3 or 4 weeks ago. With that done, I started getting an aquascape going.

IMG_0886

• MRP
• Sep 22, 2017

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• MRP
• Sep 22, 2017

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• MRP
• Sep 22, 2017

So, I felt good because visually the project was starting to come along, but after testing the water, my readings clearly showed the cycle was not moving along. High ammonia, no nitrates/nitrites. Then I had a bit of bad luck, as the filter on my little 3 gallon aquaponic thingy stopped working. I didnt know what to do with the one danio and ghost shimp I had in there, so I moved them into the 20 gallon long I was working on.

At this point, the aquarium looked like this:

IMG_0885

• MRP
• Sep 22, 2017

I figured the cycle was bound to complete soon. At this point, I started doing daily water changes of around 25% and adding bacteria with every change. Because the ammonia was at 4ppm, I also added TopFin ammonia remover with every change. Another week goes by and my ammonia is still 4ppm and I'm growing really irritated at this point. I was around this time, I came across some info on this forum about filter media. I'm using a Sunsun 302 and it came with 3 thin pieces of padding. Not knowing any better, I assumed that was all I needed. I'm still not sure about it, but I think that is really insufficient media to facilitate a good bacteria colony. This might have been my dumbest mistake yet. Anyway, I immediately went to grab some DIY filter media and got to setting up the canister like I assume it should have been from the start. I packed the top try tightly with plastic pot scrubbers, the middle tray with lava rock, and the bottom try with lava rock and a pouch of purigen (I heard this helps remove tannins). I really hope I'm on track now.

Another issue I'm having is that my PH levels have been testing at 6.0 or below (6.0 is the lowest reading for this test). I assumed this was solely the result of the driftwood tannins. But today I noticed my fish exhibiting some odd constant opening and closing of its mouth. About ten days ago, I made a little DIY CO2 reactor:

IMG_0884

• MRP
• Sep 22, 2017

The yeast and sugar recipe I followed lasted about 7-8 days at around an average 1 bubble per second. I tinkered with the mix by adding more yeast and also baking soda this time and the CO2 produced is far more, about 3 maybe 4 bps. Since for the time being my method of diffusion is a relatively inefficient airstone (will switch to a powerhead on Monday), I thought 3 bps would be fine. Also, I have been taking the CO2 out about one hour before I turn off the lights. Anyway, the opening and closing mouth action stopped almost immediately after I took out the CO2. Was I gassing the poor fish? Is this why my PH is so low? Since I knew I was going to finally write out this long post and someone would probably ask about my tap water parameters, I tested my tap water straight out of the tap just as a baseline and knowing that the PH can vary wildly--it was 8.2. I will take another sample tomorrow that I will let sit for half a day or so and see what it shows.

Anyway, long story short, I'm fully feeling a bit of beginners burn out: never ending cycle, crazy parameters, guilt over my poor danio (like the test monkeys we used to send into space--I have made so many mistakes at his expense). Learning how to keep fish is an ongoing struggle. Its probably well worth it in the end, but I hope by reaching out to the experienced people of this forum I can make my life a bit easier.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Any advice is more that welcome.

Here is my aquarium as of today:

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• MRP
• Sep 22, 2017

 

Welcome to the Forum! I hope you will find this forum helpful.

The first thing I read is what got my attention. Is that you are using grape wood. I heard that grapewood is not good for aquariums. Try and read this....

Grapewood in aquarium....experiences? - The Planted Tank Forum

You should also read this.....

Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle

Setting up a fish tank is not something you can rush and trying to do all what you are doing is something that takes time. You tank isn’t cycling because 1 when dosing co2 your ph will drop and most nitrifying bacteria don’t do well in ph that low. Before setting up your co2 you need to get your tank established before using co2.

Your ammonia is high because your tank isn’t cycled and will not cycle unless you slow down and take it step by step.

You should read up on planted tanks and how co2 works. There are a lot of information on google.

And I would return your fish to your fish store your fish are suffering from ammonia poisoning, wild fluctuations in your water parameters, and your grapewood down the line will give you problems. So before you get your tank all set up I would take that out and use driftwood.

I hope I didn’t come across as mean or insensitive because that is what I a, not trying to do. And the last thing I would want you to do is quit this hobby because of everything you already did. You need to know the basics first before going to other things.

The first thing you should know is how to cycle a tank and what it involves and the MOST important thing is the Nitrogen cycle. Without knowing the nitrogen cycle you will never get your tank in the place it needs to be to keep your fish happy.

There are other things but I honestly would start from the very beginning and take it 1 step at a time so you don’t feel burned out.

I know others will chime in and they all mean the best and want the best for your fish and want you to understand that keeping fish is something we all take seriously. Their lives are in our hands and we want to try to give them the best we can. And that’s why I said I would return the fish to the pet store and hopefully you didn’t spend that much and get the proper products to help you start cycling your tank.

Good Luck!

I do have to add that your aquascape is very good looking! That is something that I wouldn’t be able to do myself. And for someone just getting into the hobby that scape is awesome!

Read up on stuff first, understand how things work and how they work. And know that we all will have different opinions on certain things like what kind of biological media is good or good enough. But there are things that we are all going to agree on. SLOW down and listen and read and you will get there. We ALL were where you are now and though trial and error we all learned from our mistakes and we don’t want others to make the same mistakes as we did.

When I first got into the hobby I had no one to help me. I wasn’t apart of any forums, I didn’t know who to trust and especially at local pet stores, and I learned from just reading and watching tons of YouTube videos. I took what people said and you have to understand that no 2 tanks will/are the same. So what may work in my tank will not always work in someone else’s tank. And I slowly learned about the nitrogen cycle and why it’s so important. And you have to know that unless you have well water you need to dechlorinate your water before putting it into your tank so that the chlorine in the water doesn’t kill the beneficial bacteria that we are trying to keep and grow in our tanks.
If you can find out if your area uses chlorine or chlormine to treat your drinking water. You can cal, your local water department and ask them. If they only use chlorine a cheap chlorine remover is just fine but if they use chlomine you need something like seachem prime. And you can use seachems stability or tetra safe start as your bacteria starter. Those are the 2 most popular and used brands, people knows it works. But you also need to know where the beneficial bacteria grows and what media is good or if you want to use the best then there are things out there that are available(opinions will vary on this).
DONT QUIT and just as long as you take your time and listen and do your own research you will get there.

Welcome to the forums and please ask away, but try to read up on stuff first so you understand why people say this and that so that you can understand the why and the way.

 

Welcome to the Forum! I hope you will find this forum helpful.

The first thing I read is what got my attention. Is that you are using grape wood. I heard that grapewood is not good for aquariums. Try and read this....

Grapewood in aquarium....experiences? - The Planted Tank Forum

Thanks, I have read that thread previously and many more on grape wood. Some people hate it. Personally, I love the way it looks. I would never buy it again, though. At this point, I have like 25 dollars worth of phoenix moss superglued to it so hopefully it lasts a good while. There was one user in the thread you linked that had his grape wood in the tank for 5+ years, so I'm hopeful.

You should also read this.....

Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle

Setting up a fish tank is not something you can rush and trying to do all what you are doing is something that takes time. You tank isn’t cycling because 1 when dosing co2 your ph will drop and most nitrifying bacteria don’t do well in ph that low. Before setting up your co2 you need to get your tank established before using co2.

Your ammonia is high because your tank isn’t cycled and will not cycle unless you slow down and take it step by step.

You should read up on planted tanks and how co2 works. There are a lot of information on google.

I read up on the nitrogen cycle, but I didn't know low PH inhibits the bacteria. Very helpful, thanks! I will hold off on the CO2 until the tank is established.

And I would return your fish to your fish store your fish are suffering from ammonia poisoning, wild fluctuations in your water parameters, and your grapewood down the line will give you problems. So before you get your tank all set up I would take that out and use driftwood.

As for returning the fish, I don't see myself doing that. I appreciate your thinking on it. As for the grapewood, as long as I get 2 years out of it, I'm happy. Live and learn.

I hope I didn’t come across as mean or insensitive because that is what I a, not trying to do. And the last thing I would want you to do is quit this hobby because of everything you already did. You need to know the basics first before going to other things.

The first thing you should know is how to cycle a tank and what it involves and the MOST important thing is the Nitrogen cycle. Without knowing the nitrogen cycle you will never get your tank in the place it needs to be to keep your fish happy.

There are other things but I honestly would start from the very beginning and take it 1 step at a time so you don’t feel burned out.

I know others will chime in and they all mean the best and want the best for your fish and want you to understand that keeping fish is something we all take seriously. Their lives are in our hands and we want to try to give them the best we can. And that’s why I said I would return the fish to the pet store and hopefully you didn’t spend that much and get the proper products to help you start cycling your tank.

Good Luck!

All sensible advice you gave and I appreciate your time. I like to gather information and make my own descisions. For example, if I listened strictly to forums' doom and gloom about de-**** tanks, then most likely I would have 1) ended up with the original ugly (imo) petsmart tank I bought, or 2) needlessly paid more money for a rimless tank. Instead, I de-rimmed it myself which was super easy and now I have a tank I really enjoy looking at.

Thanks again for your input and I hope to hear your advice again down the line.

 

HI and welcome! First off, the tank looks freaking awesome! Very beautiful!!!

IMO, if you have nowhere else to store the fish and you are still reading 4ppm ammonia then that needs to be your first fix. At this point you need to just jumpstart the cycle; get the denitrifying bacteria going to start reducing the ammonia. Look into Tetra Safestart+; read some reviews and info on it. Get the small bottle and use it all. Not the best method but its the quickest I can think of unless you know someone keeping fish and borrow some of their filter media.

The fish "gasping" for air (are they coming to the surface too?) and the extremely low pH could both be attributed to high CO2 levels. As Tanks and Plants stated; when CO2 increases your pH will decrease and your O2 levels can decrease. Any idea what your CO2 ppm is? Do you have a drop checker or bubble counter?

I am not familiar with grape wood for I have never used it... if you find you need to replace it there are alternative woods that look similar; manzanita comes to mind and might work with your current substrate and plant arrangement.

 

HI and welcome! First off, the tank looks freaking awesome! Very beautiful!!!

Thank you so much, I really pleased with it as a first effort

IMO, if you have nowhere else to store the fish and you are still reading 4ppm ammonia then that needs to be your first fix. At this point you need to just jumpstart the cycle; get the denitrifying bacteria going to start reducing the ammonia. Look into Tetra Safestart+; read some reviews and info on it. Get the small bottle and use it all. Not the best method but its the quickest I can think of unless you know someone keeping fish and borrow some of their filter media.

It was at 4ppm for a long time. As of today's reading its at 1ppm. Not sure I can trust that because of the ammonia remover I've been using. I will grab the tetra safestart+ and use the whole thing. Can't hurt, right? Especially because I added a ton of new filter media just a couple days ago, I really want to get the bacteria numbers up. Thank you for this.

The fish "gasping" for air (are they coming to the surface too?) and the extremely low pH could both be attributed to high CO2 levels. As Tanks and Plants stated; when CO2 increases your pH will decrease and your O2 levels can decrease. Any idea what your CO2 ppm is? Do you have a drop checker or bubble counter?

Great to hear a second opinion on the CO2 being responsible for the low PH. Totally going to discontinue CO2 until I get the cycle completed. The need time I mix the yeast and sugar, I think I'll use 1/3 less yeast. I'm not sure about the terminology, but I have a bottle of water attached to the two co2 generating bottles and I just count how many bubbles of C02 are being produced. The first recipe I followed produced a steady 1 bubble per second for just over a week. The recent recipe seems much more intense, though. The fish was acting normal with no unusual behavior at the surface until today, then I guess the tank became saturated with C02, after removing the C02 and a 25% water change, he's back to normal.

I am not familiar with grape wood for I have never used it... if you find you need to replace it there are alternative woods that look similar; manzanita comes to mind and might work with your current substrate and plant arrangement.

It's nice looking stuff and pretty cheap. I don't think it will be worth the hassle in the end so I won't recommend it or use it again. In future, I will probably use manzanita. I was surprised at how fiddly aquascaping is and found it to be a bit of a chore, so I will probably wait until I absolutely have to change out the wood before I do it.

Thanks a lot for your insight. I'll let you know how the safestart works out.

 

I am glad that you have a open mind and are happy to listen. I think you need to wash away the thinking that more is ok. Like how you stated that you could just use the whole thing of tetra safe start+ because it couldn’t hurt because of all the media you have just got. I cannot and shouldn’t say that’s the “wrong” way of thinking but in maintaining an aquarium more doesn’t always mean good or ok.
I am pretty sure I saw you have a Eheim filter. Did you set up the filter correctly? Things like this can make or break a tank. I have had a customer who was going to buy a brand new filter because the Fx-5 he had wasn’t working and making his water clean and clear. So I asked him how did he have his filter set up and come to find out he had everything backwards. Certain filters work differently from each other. Most filters will suck water from the tank from the top down, but filters like your eheim will suck water from the bottom up. So make sure that you have those round foam disks that should have came with the filter on the bottom first and then I would get rid of those pot scrubbers because they are not meant for canister filter use. They are perfect for things like trickle filters but canister filters work in the same way but differently. You should look into things like ceramic rings or other biological media. We use the term biological media because that’s where the beneficial bacteria grow and live on. Lava rock is ok IMHO but what I have found and researched is that the thing with lava rock you don’t know if the pores go all the way though the rock. You want the water to move though the media.




Lets say that you have all these holes on the outside of the rock and the thing I have found is that if you were to cut the rock in have from the top and bottom you don’t have many channels going though the entire rock itself. You want the water to flow though the rock. That’s just my opinion on lava rock. You can use things like seachems matrix which is pumice and there will be a lot of members saying you can buy pumice for super cheap compared to the prices you pay for seachems matrix. That is true but for me I rather just have the piece of mind that what I purchased is ok for my aquarium. I am not saying that pumice you can buy from other places won’t work but for me it’s just a piece of mind thing and the other thing is that I don’t use matrix I use a totally different biological media which has worked for me for over 2 years without a problem.

And yes Purigen does take out tannis but for future reference it also takes out other things. It’s a great chemical filter media but please don’t pay over 10.oo for a bag of that. There are places like eBay and Amazon that sells it for less.

Now with the stopping of co2 you need to know the requirements of the plants you have. Some plants needs that extra co2 to thrive and survive and using co2 also means that you need to add in some fertilizer and have a light made for planted tanks of you are going to try to grow certain types of plants.

The reason I said you should return your fish was mostly because your tank isn’t cycled and ammonia and nitrites in very small amounts are deadly to fish and even though it may not kill your fish right away the ammonia can burn their gills and it’s just bad for fish. The 2 very deadly things for fish in a tank is ammonia and nitrites. When trying to cycle your tank in the beginning you will have high ammonia, but that’s why we use those bottled beneficial bacteria. The beneficial bacteria will turn the ammonia into nitrItes(notice the “I”) and nitrites are the second most deadly thing in an aquarium. Once you have enough beneficial bacteria going they will turn the nitrItes into a very less dangerous thing called nitrAtes(notice the “A”). Nitrates are not as deadly as the first 2 and to get rid of this we do water changes. There are beneficial bacteria that can process the Nitrates but for now don’t worry about that.
Try and think of it like this. Would you want to live in your own pee and poop? Or even live in a swimming pool filled with water but let’s say 4% of that water is ammonia. That’s what you fish is going though, until you can get you tank cycled they are suffering.

You will know when your tank is cycled and this is how.

This is a very very general view and the numbers are not the actual numbers you will see........

In the very beginning you will have ammonia. You get ammonia from the fishes pee and poop and any decaying food. So let’s say it’s at 4ppm

Now once the beneficial bacteria start to grow and you have enough they will slowly convert the ammonia into nitrites so now your nitrites will go up let’s say 2ppm still deadly to fish.

Now Nitrates will be at zero.

Now fast forward a few days and you test your water and your ammonia starts to go down let’s say 2ppm still very deadly to fish.

But now your nitrites go up because the beneficial bacteria that consumes and converts ammonia into nitrites are growing better and faster.
So your nitrites will go up to let’s say 4ppm very deadly to fish

But your Nitrates are still at zero.

Fast forward now let’s say your ammonia is now at zero and your nitrites are at 2 but now your nitrates are at 1, your almost there

Fast forward now your ammonia is at zero, this is because you now have enough beneficial bacteria that can consume the ammonia and convert it into nitrites. And now your nitrites are are 1ppm and nitrates are at 1ppm. Your very very close.

Fast forward now your ammonia is zero and your nitrites are at zero but your Nitrates are at 4ppm- your there!!! Your tank is now cycled!!!

Now your fish can happily live in your tank.
I stop for now because this post is super long.

 

I am glad that you have a open mind and are happy to listen. I think you need to wash away the thinking that more is ok. Like how you stated that you could just use the whole thing of tetra safe start+ because it couldn’t hurt because of all the media you have just got. I cannot and shouldn’t say that’s the “wrong” way of thinking but in maintaining an aquarium more doesn’t always mean good or ok.

I believe this to be true too, but after 6 weeks am more that a little impatient. Under normal circumstances, sure.

I am pretty sure I saw you have a Eheim filter. Did you set up the filter correctly? Things like this can make or break a tank. I have had a customer who was going to buy a brand new filter because the Fx-5 he had wasn’t working and making his water clean and clear. So I asked him how did he have his filter set up and come to find out he had everything backwards. Certain filters work differently from each other. Most filters will suck water from the tank from the top down, but filters like your eheim will suck water from the bottom up. So make sure that you have those round foam disks that should have came with the filter on the bottom first and then I would get rid of those pot scrubbers because they are not meant for canister filter use. They are perfect for things like trickle filters but canister filters work in the same way but differently. You should look into things like ceramic rings or other biological media. We use the term biological media because that’s where the beneficial bacteria grow and live on. Lava rock is ok IMHO but what I have found and researched is that the thing with lava rock you don’t know if the pores go all the way though the rock. You want the water to move though the media.

View attachment 358340

Lets say that you have all these holes on the outside of the rock and the thing I have found is that if you were to cut the rock in have from the top and bottom you don’t have many channels going though the entire rock itself. You want the water to flow though the rock. That’s just my opinion on lava rock. You can use things like seachems matrix which is pumice and there will be a lot of members saying you can buy pumice for super cheap compared to the prices you pay for seachems matrix. That is true but for me I rather just have the piece of mind that what I purchased is ok for my aquarium. I am not saying that pumice you can buy from other places won’t work but for me it’s just a piece of mind thing and the other thing is that I don’t use matrix I use a totally different biological media which has worked for me for over 2 years without a problem.

Actually, my filter is a Sunsun 302. Any thoughts on how to set it up for best effect? I know, pot scrubbers are not ideal and neither is lava rock, but I think I was swayed by price. 7lbs of lava rock was 4 dollars, 15 scrubbers for 3 dollars. I read that ceramic rings are great, so happy to hear you recommend them too, but they seemed expensive based on what I saw at petco.

And yes Purigen does take out tannis but for future reference it also takes out other things. It’s a great chemical filter media but please don’t pay over 10.oo for a bag of that. There are places like eBay and Amazon that sells it for less.

I think I paid 11 dollars at petco. It seems to be working and hopefully less tannins will help the PH.

Now with the stopping of co2 you need to know the requirements of the plants you have. Some plants needs that extra co2 to thrive and survive and using co2 also means that you need to add in some fertilizer and have a light made for planted tanks of you are going to try to grow certain types of plants.

The whole plants, lights, and ferts conversation would probably be a very long one indeed. I think I will make another topic for this in that forum.

The reason I said you should return your fish was mostly because your tank isn’t cycled and ammonia and nitrites in very small amounts are deadly to fish and even though it may not kill your fish right away the ammonia can burn their gills and it’s just bad for fish. The 2 very deadly things for fish in a tank is ammonia and nitrites. When trying to cycle your tank in the beginning you will have high ammonia, but that’s why we use those bottled beneficial bacteria. The beneficial bacteria will turn the ammonia into nitrItes(notice the “I”) and nitrites are the second most deadly thing in an aquarium. Once you have enough beneficial bacteria going they will turn the nitrItes into a very less dangerous thing called nitrAtes(notice the “A”). Nitrates are not as deadly as the first 2 and to get rid of this we do water changes. There are beneficial bacteria that can process the Nitrates but for now don’t worry about that.
Try and think of it like this. Would you want to live in your own pee and poop? Or even live in a swimming pool filled with water but let’s say 4% of that water is ammonia. That’s what you fish is going though, until you can get you tank cycled they are suffering.

I hear you on this, I'm sure the fish is on borrowed time due to my cluelessness. As I said in my first post, I put him in the uncycled tank only because I noticed that his 3 gallon tank had a broken filter. I wasn't sure which situation was worse.

You will know when your tank is cycled and this is how.

This is a very very general view and the numbers are not the actual numbers you will see........

In the very beginning you will have ammonia. You get ammonia from the fishes pee and poop and any decaying food. So let’s say it’s at 4ppm

Now once the beneficial bacteria start to grow and you have enough they will slowly convert the ammonia into nitrites so now your nitrites will go up let’s say 2ppm still deadly to fish.

Now Nitrates will be at zero.

Now fast forward a few days and you test your water and your ammonia starts to go down let’s say 2ppm still very deadly to fish.

But now your nitrites go up because the beneficial bacteria that consumes and converts ammonia into nitrites are growing better and faster.
So your nitrites will go up to let’s say 4ppm very deadly to fish

But your Nitrates are still at zero.

Fast forward now let’s say your ammonia is now at zero and your nitrites are at 2 but now your nitrates are at 1, your almost there

Fast forward now your ammonia is at zero, this is because you now have enough beneficial bacteria that can consume the ammonia and convert it into nitrites. And now your nitrites are are 1ppm and nitrates are at 1ppm. Your very very close.

Fast forward now your ammonia is zero and your nitrites are at zero but your Nitrates are at 4ppm- your there!!! Your tank is now cycled!!!

Now your fish can happily live in your tank.
I stop for now because this post is super long.

I am eagerly looking forward to this point. Hopefully, its not to far away. Thanks again for taking your time to share your thoughts, its generous of you.

 

I agree with everyone here. WIth this hobby you have to go slow. And one step at a time. What your tying to achieve in a few days or weeks actually will takes months even for an experienced hobbiest. Once you get the basics down it is a relaxing hobby. If you rush you end up banging your head on the wall. Lol

 

I agree with everyone here. WIth this hobby you have to go slow. And one step at a time. What your tying to achieve in a few days or weeks actually will takes months even for an experienced hobbiest. Once you get the basics down it is a relaxing hobby. If you rush you end up banging your head on the wall. Lol

I just want my tank cycled, lol. 6 weeks seems like more than enough time to wait. I think the main reason people (myself definitely included) bang our heads against the wall is that there is actually a lot to learn and therefore the potential to make a lot of mistakes. Also, fish keeping is not particularly intuitive.

 

I also tried pot scrubbers and lava rock when starting and paid a hefty price. I know the tried and true products can be pricey but trust me it is worth it to buy matrix rings and filter media. I had a cycle "sort of " going for two months only to have a minI cycle start and be back to doing massive water changes and buying watwr treatments. You appear to be a DIY er and that is awesome. But if you make the bones of your tank with quality proven products you will save yourself huge headaches. I wish you well and welcome to the board!!

 

Off topic here, but your aquascape looks awesome! You,re really talented! I wonder if what you do for a living is somehow related

 

Actually, my filter is a 302. Any thoughts on how to set it up for best effect? I know, pot scrubbers are not ideal and neither is lava rock, but I think I was swayed by price. 7lbs of lava rock was 4 dollars, 15 scrubbers for 3 dollars. I read that ceramic rings are great, so happy to hear you recommend them too, but they seemed expensive based on what I saw at petco.

Help - Did I set up my filter correctly?

Link above concerns the setup of a SunSun; Dolfan shares his setup in the 4th post. Lots of sponges and floss... so many options with cannisters for setup.

I run an Eheim canister and pretty much follow below setup one of our members posted awhile back... saved pic to my desktop but didn't save thread or remember who shared it; apologies to that person for not giving credit here.



Bottom line is you want a mechanical filtration (control water disbursement), followed by loads of biological filtration (bio-balls, filter pads, etc.), and lastly and not often necessary chemical filtration (use of purigen, carbon, etc.)

 

I believe this to be true too, but after 6 weeks am more that a little impatient. Under normal circumstances, sure.

That is totally understandable, but now we have to take a few steps back and get you on the right track. Getting on the right track might cost you some money but I assure you that most or all of us have used most of these products. I say most because in certain areas especially in biological media there are a lot of different media’s out there and everyone has their favorite and what they like. I will try to be non-bias and tell you my honest opinion.



Actually, my filter is a Sunsun 302. Any thoughts on how to set it up for best effect? I know, pot scrubbers are not ideal and neither is lava rock, but I think I was swayed by price. 7lbs of lava rock was 4 dollars, 15 scrubbers for 3 dollars. I read that ceramic rings are great, so happy to hear you recommend them too, but they seemed expensive based on what I saw at petco.

The sunsun I believe filtrate from the bottom up. Water gets sucked in and goes to the bottom and is pushed upwards towards the output. So starting from the bottom up you want your mechanical filtration. That’s the foams that came with the filter. Poly-fil is a good filter media but it is more for polishing your water. That’s taking out the super fine particles. This is good but it can clog up fast and you have to clean it out, which means taking apart your filter and changing the poly-fil.
You can buy squares of foam from eBay or Amazon and cut the design out of the square that fits your filter. You need to make sure that the foam you buy is aquarium safe. There are a lot of cheap foams that are not aquarium safe because of the chemicals that are in the foam. I would buy from a reputable place.
You can start with a coarse foam 50-40ppI and use a finer foam 20-10ppI and if you really wanted to you can get a medium ppI foam 30ppi

From the very very bottom tray first put the coarse foam then the medium foam and then the fine foam. You can see what it is doing. The coarse foam will filter out the big particles and so on. The reason why we use foams is 3 fold.

1- it filters out the particulates in the water
2- it filters out the particles so that the biological media does not get clogged with all the detritus and gunk. I have done my own research on why you don’t want your biological media to get clogged. Basically it can if it gets clogged enough cause a minI cycle if the beneficial bacteria dies off due to no water movement. This can take a while a couple of months depending on the tank.
3- it is a place where beneficial bacteria can grow, but this is temporary because when you do filter maintenance you need to rinse off your foams.

After the foams is your biological media. Now here is where it gets tricky and open to debate. Like I said before EVERYONE has their own opinion and what they like and what and why they use what they use.

I personally don’t like those cylinder type biological media because while they are good media to grow nitrifying bacteria on (good for ammonia and nitrites) they will not and will never grow the denitrifying bacteria. The denitrifying bacteria is what converts nitrates into nitrogen gas(basically) and this is why we all do water changes we all need to get rid of the Nitrates. Nitrates in low amounts is ok but in high amounts it can kill your fish and for those of us who breed certain fish we want the Nitrates as low as possible. So what I use and have been using is something called Biohome. A lot of the biological media will tell you how much area it has. For example 2lbs of Biohome has an area of 7200 sq ft. That’s about the size of a basketball court. So this means that the beneficial bacteria has all this area to grow on. The more area you have the more beneficial bacteria you can grow. I look at this media as a long term investment. If you take proper care of it the Biohome can last a couple of years. I have had mines for 2 years and I have not had to replace or add anymore media and my water parameters are always great. And as for cost it’s a lot cheaper than a lot of the other media’s out there. This media I am bias in because I use it and I am the HawaiI dealer for it.
You can research others and see but the one thing I will advise you on is don’t use those plastic bioballs. While bacteria will grow on any surface those plastic bioballs are one of the worst media’s out there because they cannot hold that much beneficial bacteria. And you need to take out those pot scrubbers and use the correct biological media. My other favorite is Seachem matrix. People will tell you that it is pumice and you can buy pumice online at various places for a lot cheaper but for me I rather use something that I know is made for aquariums.
I’m going to leave this like this for now I had a long long day. Try and look up Seachem Prime and this is a good watch maybe it will help you with some ideas.

And this a a very good read it tell you the basics without confusing you.

Nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria – Aquaculture

I think I paid 11 dollars at petco. It seems to be working and hopefully less tannins will help the PH.



The whole plants, lights, and ferts conversation would probably be a very long one indeed. I think I will make another topic for this in that forum.



I hear you on this, I'm sure the fish is on borrowed time due to my cluelessness. As I said in my first post, I put him in the uncycled tank only because I noticed that his 3 gallon tank had a broken filter. I wasn't sure which situation was worse.



I am eagerly looking forward to this point. Hopefully, its not to far away. Thanks again for taking your time to share your thoughts, its generous of you.

 

Off topic here, but your aquascape looks awesome! You,re really talented! I wonder if what you do for a living is somehow related

Thank you! Feels good to hear that

@ Mooresvillain, Tanks and Plants: thanks a lot guys, I appeciate the time and I did take your advice. I reorganized my canister correctly and added a bunch of ceramic cylinder biological media to the top tray. I also added the whole small bottle of safe start+ after adding the new media/reordering of the trays.

I think I'm getting this part of the equation on track now. Unforunately, algae suddenly started appearing on all my moss and I have a new battle to fight now.

Thanks again for your help!

 

I just have to tell you inKOVE your tank !! Beautiful deco !! So natural and comfortable looking at it!

Hope the tank will be cycled very soon!

 

I just have to tell you inKOVE your tank !! Beautiful deco !! So natural and comfortable looking at it!

Hope the tank will be cycled very soon!

Thanks for the kind words and good wishes!

 

Sorry I haven’t been able to see how your tank was doing sooner these past couple of days were just crazy!

How is everything going?

Seachems purigen will NOT change your pH. It will take out the tannins in the water, take out medications, and it will help by taking out the organic wastes that would have gone back into your water.

Having a planted tank is somewhat tricky. What is the tricky part? The tricky part IMHO is trying to get your tank dialed in. This is why your having some problems with algae now.

So...... IMHO every planted tank owners worst nightmare is getting algae. Algae can grow anywhere and it’s very time consuming when trying to clean it up. No matter what we do you will get some algae in a planted tank, the trick is to keep it as low as possible. How we do that is by trial and error. The trick is to add just enough nutrients and lighting to your tank to keep your plants colorful and healthy. Just a tad bit too much of lighting and nutrients, the algae will take advantage of it and start to grow.
By using seachems flourish excel it helps in 2 ways.

1- it gives the plants the needed carbon to grow

2- it helps by acting like a algaecide.

But make sure that you wash your hands very good after using this. This chemical can be very dangerous.
This is a good read on excel.....



Having a planted tank is fun and rewarding and the way you set up your tank, is just plain awesome! But like I said before you need to take things step by step and get the basics down first before trying more advanced things.

Hopefully things are getting better and your getting to understand the nitrogen cycle and the basics of setting up an aquarium.

Let us know how your doing.

 

MRP..a few words of advice. First off, fish and Plants is giving you very good detailed advice, not always exactly how I do things, but very sound, proven advice. Good for you to research and make your own decision, but be careful when casting it aside as every mistake will cost you time and possibly $.

Second.. This hobby is all about patience, cutting corners will ultimately cause your cycle to take longer with each misstep. And as far as saving money, be careful not to cause yourself trouble by trying to save $.

With the co2, yes you were gassing your fish and your pH was without a doubt the result of the co2.
I would scrap the diy, because it pales on comparisons to pressurized and will produce marginal benefit. If you want co2 get a pressurized system, then it will show amarked improvement. But wait until you get your tank running and gain some experience. Most who have co2 would never recommend diy if you can do pressurized.

 

Seachems purigen will NOT change your pH. It will take out the tannins in the water, take out medications, and it will help by taking out the organic wastes that would have gone back into your water.

This is good to know. The removal of tannins was the main issue initially and it has definitely done that.

Having a planted tank is somewhat tricky. What is the tricky part? The tricky part IMHO is trying to get your tank dialed in. This is why your having some problems with algae now.

So...... IMHO every planted tank owners worst nightmare is getting algae. Algae can grow anywhere and it’s very time consuming when trying to clean it up. No matter what we do you will get some algae in a planted tank, the trick is to keep it as low as possible. How we do that is by trial and error. The trick is to add just enough nutrients and lighting to your tank to keep your plants colorful and healthy. Just a tad bit too much of lighting and nutrients, the algae will take advantage of it and start to grow.

Yeah, I'm in the process of trying to find the balance now. To be honest, I kind of like the look of some algae. It makes the tank look a bit more natural and less sterile. I'm going to keep tinkering with the balance and once the tank is well cycled, I'm planing on adding 3 otocinculus. They can feast on it.

By using seachems flourish excel it helps in 2 ways.

1- it gives the plants the needed carbon to grow

2- it helps by acting like a algaecide.

But make sure that you wash your hands very good after using this. This chemical can be very dangerous.
This is a good read on excel.....

Excel is some interesting stuff. It definitely has its uses and I can tell its quite powerful (good link too, btw, thanks). The first algae that appeared was black beard algae and I tried the advice given by George Farmer in this video:

The excel destroyed all traces of the BBA in one day, but unfortunately took about 20% of my moss too. I think I will continue to use it as a general algaecide and hopefully in curbs some of the growth. Specifically, thinking of adding 1.6 ml daily.

Having a planted tank is fun and rewarding and the way you set up your tank, is just plain awesome! But like I said before you need to take things step by step and get the basics down first before trying more advanced things.

First, thanks and I'm glad you like the set up. One thing is that even basic things can actually be pretty advanced. Take lighting for example: Boom, get a light above the tank. Done. Except that's not really how it goes. Watts per gallon, then? Nope, that's outdated. Okay, so maybe its all about PAR values--except who exactly has the equipment to measure that stuff? Wonderful, now let's talk about spectrum...I'm sure you see what I'm getting at. So, then, where can we draw the line between basics and advanced concepts? Anyway, I'm learning a lot from the mistakes I make and I continue to seek out the wisdom of experienced hobbyists like yourself, so big thanks!

Hopefully things are getting better and your getting to understand the nitrogen cycle and the basics of setting up an aquarium.

Let us know how your doing.

I think things are getting better. I did a minor re-scape of some of my background plants. Plant growth is super weird. In my back ground I have from left to right: ludwigia, rotala, and bacopa caroliniana. Originally, I only planned to have bacopa, but I bought the other two on impulse. The ludwigia seems to grow slowly and I had some stem melt in the middle, resulting in a planted bottom stem and a floating top...ughhhh. Anyway, I noticed that new growth stated to emerge from top part of the bottom stem, so I left them. I replanted the top parts. I also, filled it a "dead zone" in the back left corner. It was a small space between the glass and a rock. A lot of decaying plant matter collected there. The rotala is growing like crazy, I don't know what to do. Each stem has grown a least 30 side shoots and they grow about an inch a day. Any advice on this? I can take pics. I cut the two tallest stems and replanted then because I wasn't sure what else to do. The bacopa is coming along really steadily.

I also checked my parameters and my ammonia is at the lowest its ever been ~0.25 ppm, but no nitrites yet. Not sure if that's normal, but I'm happy to see the ammonia dropping.

 

MRP..a few words of advice. First off, fish and Plants is giving you very good detailed advice, not always exactly how I do things, but very sound, proven advice. Good for you to research and make your own decision, but be careful when casting it aside as every mistake will cost you time and possibly $.

Second.. This hobby is all about patience, cutting corners will ultimately cause your cycle to take longer with each misstep. And as far as saving money, be careful not to cause yourself trouble by trying to save $.

Thank you! Your advice seems sound too.

With the co2, yes you were gassing your fish and your pH was without a doubt the result of the co2.

I'm not so sure about that. FYI, my substate is aquasoil amazonia. Here is some relevant info from their site:

"Amazonia and pH--Amazonia is originally acidic, with a pH level of 5.0-6.0, and it makes water more acidic. "

Furthermore, prior to the purigen being added to my filter, my grapewood was giving off a lot of tannin. I'm sure the tannic acid contributed to lowering pH.

I think CO2 was a factor, but not the ONLY factor.

I would scrap the diy, because it pales on comparisons to pressurized and will produce marginal benefit. If you want co2 get a pressurized system, then it will show amarked improvement. But wait until you get your tank running and gain some experience. Most who have co2 would never recommend diy if you can do pressurized.

How much $ is a pressurized system and C02 refills? I have no doubt that its a more effective setup--but I'm guessing ten times the cost?

I'm pretty happy with my set up and I get way more enjoyment building something with my own hands than buying it. Though, I can buy outright to save hassles.

On that note, check out the dispersal system I just built and added to my aquarium yesterday.

It was 10 dollars and is SO much more effective than the previous diffuser I had.

 

MRP unfortunately co2 systems are costly but they're way more reliable and can be had for $150-200 initial investment. Have lots of friends with high tech planted tanks who started with diy, so its doable but they wish they had just bought the system to start with. I'm sure you will be ok either way, just so you know what your getting into. May be more learning experiences.

Fishkeeping, especially with planted tanks is one big learning experience. Lol
Its never over, I didn't do diy because of their experiences, preparing to do pressurized on my 40b when I rescape it for an n-class endler colony.

You're probably right about the co2 being only a factor,but don't discount it for future reference because that is exactly how it would effect both pH and fish.

 

toolman thanks again for the advice, well noted!

Endlers seem pretty cool, I had a bit of a google because I wasn't familiar with the terms or the fish. How did you decide on those?

 

toolman thanks again for the advice, well noted!

Endlers seem pretty cool, I had a bit of a google because I wasn't familiar with the terms or the fish. How did you decide on those?

N-class endlers are unhybridized descendents of the original wild caught endlers. Most other endlers are endler guppys with at least some guppy in them. They're a miniature livebearer who don't eat their fry, and require documentation they've never been crossbred (but not sure what that entails as my current 5 males are not.-class.)

 

MRP..a few words of advice. First off, fish and Plants is giving you very good detailed advice, not always exactly how I do things, but very sound, proven advice. Good for you to research and make your own decision, but be careful when casting it aside as every mistake will cost you time and possibly $.

Second.. This hobby is all about patience, cutting corners will ultimately cause your cycle to take longer with each misstep. And as far as saving money, be careful not to cause yourself trouble by trying to save $.

With the co2, yes you were gassing your fish and your pH was without a doubt the result of the co2.
I would scrap the diy, because it pales on comparisons to pressurized and will produce marginal benefit. If you want co2 get a pressurized system, then it will show amarked improvement. But wait until you get your tank running and gain some experience. Most who have co2 would never recommend diy if you can do pressurized.

I was told pressurized can explode? I have a very curious toddler and would like to avoid any risks if possible how do you know that you get the correct amount of co2 into your water? Can you recommend any system to a person on a budget?

 

Milwaukee is a good quakity but inexpensive system. ashenwelt mbkemp are more experienced that I am. I'll look up my notes and give you a post later with more info, as I'm at work now.

 

I have to agree with toolman DIY co2 while doable can be very inconsistent and having a planted tank is all about consistency. I use a paintball co2 regulator which uses paintball tanks and co2, and the regulator cost about 80-90 plus you need to get a co2 tank. A 20oz co2 tank would be the best because you don’t have to keep on refilling it. On the other hand you need to look for a paintball shop if you have one nearby that fills paintball tanks with co2. This is The problem I ran into a lot of paintball shops are changing over from co2 to HPA or high pressure air. Aqua trek is the brand I use it isn’t the most fanciest brand nor is it the best, it’s at best ok. Aquatek also sells a regulator that needs those regular co2 tanks eBay has them.
Natalya I am pretty sure that most co2 tanks are built with pressure relief valves, I could be wrong. There is a small chance of the thing blowing up but that’s why every 5 years you need to take your tank to get hydrotested. There is a date stamped on every tank saying when it was last tested and no shop should ever fill a tank that has an expired date on it. The hydrotest, well tests for leaks and structural integrity and they do a visual check in inside of the tank. I personally have never heard of a co2 tank blowing up by itself. The only time I have ever heard of a tank blowing up is by user error and the user being careless.

Back MRP also with DIY co2 you need to shut off the co2 at night, plants don’t use co2 at night and it can build up and become very toxic to your fish and it will kill them. I have killed my fish that way once when I was trying to dial in my tank, luckily only 1 or 2 Fish died but still it was an unnecessary death and very careless on my part. Also with diy co2 the charge up front may be small but if you have to keep on filling up your co2 then it can become expensive. My 20oz co2 tank, well supposed to cost only around $7.00 but the company that fills co2 here is the ONLY company and they know it and they now charge $15.00 no matter what size tank you bring. That means if I brought a 1(one)oz tank they still would charge $15.00. My 20oz tank at 2-3bps lasts me about 3-4 months and I don’t have to worry about turning it off/on and once you set it(dial it in) you don’t have to worry about dialing it in again. With DIY co2 there are so many inconsistencies that can happen to me it’s not worth the stress and time.
And though true the grapewood may add to the co2 drop it’s not enough to drop it that much. IMHO 99% of the co2 drop was because of your co2. Plus the ADA substrate may make the water more acidic but that is something that does not move. Once your substrate is in and you add your water after a few days the pH should level off to what the substrate is doing and that’s it. The substrate will not make the pH go up and down. For example let’s say the pH after a few days was 6.0 and you had NO co2 your pH should stay at 6.0. the only time it will move is if you don’t have enough buffers in your water to help stabilize the pH. This is why toolman IMHO is correct by saying that this hobby is all about being patient and cutting corners will definitely not help you at all and could lead you wasting money and extending your cycle time. The reason you don’t have any nitrites is because your tank isn’t cycled yet. It’s good to see your ammonia dropping that’s a good sign but once you see your ammonia drop and your nitrites go up your almost there. You need to see 0 ammonia 0 nitrites and up to and this will vary to people anywhere from 5-80(ppm) Nitrates. Once you see that your tank is cycled. And always make sure that you use some sort of dechlorinator when adding water to your tank, chlorine will kill off any beneficial bacteria you have. Most importantly TAKE YOUR TIME and HAVE FUN!!! It will be worth it in the end that I promise!

 

Tanks and Plants ...great post, I never get that detailed and your right on the mark. I'm always doing two things while posting so I quess that's why.

Natalya ...Aquatech as Tanks and Plants mentioned is another very good but inexpensive regulator. Co2 tanks are really very safe as he stated above, Ive been using them for years at home on the farm and at work. Just like using your stove or furnaceb aslomg as you follow the directions they're very safe.

 

I also checked my parameters and my is at the lowest its ever been ~0.25 ppm, but no yet. Not sure if that's normal, but I'm happy to see the ammonia dropping.

Have you tested your nitrates? I saw you said you did add the safestart+ which should have you reading 0 nitrites; bacteria should be established. Test all 3- ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates... if ammonia and nitrite are 0 (or extremely close to it) and nitrate is reading 10+ then you are cycled; congrats! With all those plants your nitrates will probably never climb too high because they are using it as food.

 

Have you tested your nitrates? I saw you said you did add the safestart+ which should have you reading 0 nitrites; bacteria should be established. Test all 3- ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates... if ammonia and nitrite are 0 (or extremely close to it) and nitrate is reading 10+ then you are cycled; congrats! With all those plants your nitrates will probably never climb too high because they are using it as food.

Hey, thanks for checking in! I was expecting some ppm of nitrite before checking for nitrate, but I will test all three now.

 

You can also get your co2 tanks filled at some beer distributors.

 

I get my co2 refilled at a welding supply place called praxair. I take them an empty tank and they give me a full one right back.

 

So, I have an update and and a question. I tested the water the other day and my ammonia was 0, nitrites 0, and nitrates were above 0 but under 5ppm. Today I added 5 sebra danio and tested the water again. This time ammonia, nitrites, nitrates all appeared to be at 0. Is this normal?

 

It can be 2 things......

One that your tank is cycled but because your bioload is so small it doesn’t register on the tester. Since you added more fish try and do daily testing so that you can see if your tank is cycled.

2- your tank isn’t cycled yet but it’s close.

Your almost there!

 

Milwaukee is a good quakity but inexpensive system. ashenwelt mbkemp are more experienced that I am. I'll look up my notes and give you a post later with more info, as I'm at work now.

I am setting up a Milwaukee MA957 with a paintball adapter to a 20oz paintball tank today. Its my lunch time project as I am working from home today. Well that, water changes and feeding the various live foods...

 

I am setting up a Milwaukee MA957 with a paintball adapter to a 20oz paintball tank today. Its my lunch time project as I am working from home today. Well that, water changes and feeding the various live foods...

Cool, been resealing my tank. Now its time for this 3rd shifter to sleep.

 

It can be 2 things......

One that your tank is cycled but because your bioload is so small it doesn’t register on the tester. Since you added more fish try and do daily testing so that you can see if your tank is cycled.

2- your tank isn’t cycled yet but it’s close.

Your almost there!

Thanks for the info! Tested again today, 24 hours after adding the fish. 0 in all categories--ammonia, nitrate/nitrite. No news is good news?

The danios seem very happy in the aquarium.

 

I am setting up a Milwaukee MA957 with a paintball adapter to a 20oz paintball tank today. Its my lunch time project as I am working from home today. Well that, water changes and feeding the various live foods...

And this test failed... my unit had a leak. Have to wait foe a replacement.

 

Thanks for the info! Tested again today, 24 hours after adding the fish. 0 in all categories--ammonia, nitrate/nitrite. No news is good news?

The danios seem very happy in the aquarium.

It’s hard to say but maybe your tank could be cycled. I forgot that you have plants in there. Plants will also take up the nitrites and nitrates and if your bioload is already small then it may not register on the test kit. It’s a hard one to watch for but try and see daily what your water parameters are. To me that’s the best way to check if your tank is cycled

 

Thanks for the continuing support. I will check daily or every other day. Wow, danios chase each other non-stop. The original danio is the biggest and he/she really tries to assert himself/herself.

 

I am glad tha things are working out!