Fire mouth tank mates?

Are there any other cichlids that I can keep with my fire mouths in a 60 gallon tank I know it needs to be South American I was thinking black convicts or Texas cichlids can you keep them if they are from the same region or does it have to be all 1 type also I think the Texas gets bigger than a fire mouth but the convict is similar in size.

 

How many firemouths do you have? Mollies, platies, or swordtails would be a good choice.

 

I currently have 2 with my bala Sharks clown loaches and shovel nose cat but those will all get moved to a bigger tank and I wanted to do a cichlids tank an Oscar is probably to big for a 60 gallon

 

So how many firemouths do you want to keep? I would definitely wait until you get the monster fish out.

What sized tank do you have for the shovelnose cat? I haven't seen anyone keep them in appropriate conditions so far

 

He is small right now only about 5 inches I'm getting a 125-200 gallon when I get a house next year he is currently in a 60

 

Even that tank size isn't big enough for his adult size.

And you didn't answer the firemouth question.

 

I just have 2 right now and didn't know if I can put another cichlids with them if not I'll fill a 60 gallon with fire mouths

 

If they pair up, I don't think you want other cichlids, even firemouths, in the tank with them.

 

I think they are both males the tips of the find are pointed although one is bigger than the other

How big are they when they pair off

 

No idea. Adults are full grown around 4.5", so I would guess you'll start seeing them pairing off around 3-4"

 

Hello! I am new to the Forum and appreciate all of the information I have gained from it since I started my aquarium.

To get right to it my question is if I can keep a Firemouth in a planted tropical community with Odessa Barbs and Peppered Corys. I know that the answer is likely "it depends". So a little context.

I would consider myself a novice (6 months into it) but I have a good understanding of the nitrogen cycle and how to find the information I need regarding fish temperament, preferred water parameters etc. when adding new fish to a tank. My question is one that conventional online fishkeeping searches hasn't been able to answer definitively, so I would like to know about your experiences if you have any.

My tank is a 30 gallon (36 by 12 footprint) that is moderately planted with 8 Odessa Barbs and 5 Peppered Corys. I was looking for recommendation for a centerpiece fish to complete my stocking and someone suggested a single Firemouth. I like the idea of a larger centerpiece but the consensus online is that people shouldn't keep Cichlids in peaceful community tanks (with the exception of Angels and Dwarf South American varieties). I have red in other forums that 30 gallon is large enough for a pair but it didn't mention a community. I currently run an 50 gallon Aqueon HOB and a sponge filter for filtration (plus what the plants naturally add). Sand substrate with some wood and dragonstone as well.

If I had a 4ft tank I would feel comfortable giving it a shot. What are thoughts regarding whether it might work in my current set up. I will likely just end up going with a Bolivian Ram instead but I think the larger size and red coloring of a Firemouth would make it an attractive option if it is possible without compromising the well being of all the fish involved. Thanks for any input!

 

A single firemouth should be fine.

 

Temperament wise I have never had a firemouth really attack anything it couldn't easily fit in its mouth. It would likely be fine with Odessas ( my favorite barb btw ) and the corries. Stick with a single and I think you are fine.

 

One firemouth may be fine but I’ve found they can be more aggressive than you think. I personally would go with a German blue or gold ram, they are smaller and beautiful and very peaceful. If you really wanted a larger fish an electric blue acara or blood parrot are both really cool, but again some can be a little aggressive, all depends on the fish.

 

Am I alone in thinking that a 36x12 aquarium that contains 8 Odessa Barbs (say 2 inches each) and 5 C.paleatus (easily 2.5 - 2.75 inches per) is already full? Certainly too much so to consider adding a 5 or 6 inch Firemouth.

 

Am I alone in thinking that a 36x12 aquarium that contains 8 Odessa Barbs (say 2 inches each) and 5 C.paleatus (easily 2.5 - 2.75 inches per) is already full? Certainly too much so to consider adding a 5 or 6 inch Firemouth.

Why I recommended a ram

 

Temperament wise I have never had a firemouth really attack anything it couldn't easily fit in its mouth. It would likely be fine with Odessas ( my favorite barb btw ) and the corries. Stick with a single and I think you are fine.

Thanks for the feedback. I have been wondering about the temperament. I have read that they are less aggressive than most Cichlids and its good to hear about someones experience. I really enjoy my Odessas, they are wicked fast and about half the size of a full grown Firemouth so I'm not too worried about them.

One firemouth may be fine but I’ve found they can be more aggressive than you think. I personally would go with a German blue or gold ram, they are smaller and beautiful and very peaceful. If you really wanted a larger fish an electric blue acara or blood parrot are both really cool, but again some can be a little aggressive, all depends on the fish.

Kind of hit and miss in your opinion as far as aggressive temperament? A Ram would be my next choice. I think I would go with Bolivian, less colorful but I keep reading that they are easier to keep than German Blues are. Would I run into similar issues with an Acara as I would with a Firemouth? Regarding temperament and size.

Am I alone in thinking that a 36x12 aquarium that contains 8 Odessa Barbs (say 2 inches each) and 5 C.paleatus (easily 2.5 - 2.75 inches per) is already full? Certainly too much so to consider adding a 5 or 6 inch Firemouth.

Thanks for the reply. This is the kind of discussion I'm looking for. Are you thinking full as in space/cramped or full as in bioload? One of my concerns is space. I think that the biological filtration I have could handle the load. Would you consider it too full for even a smaller addition like a Ram?

 

In terms of bioload, I'm sure your filter would be able to handle the increased load, although it would require a bit of time to increase its population of bacteria to match the increased amount of ammonia being released into the tank. This is, of course, the case whenever the bioload of an aquarium is increased. The bacteria need to multiply to "catch up".

I simply meant that, IMO, there's already a lot going on in there. All those fish are active and on the move all the time. Putting a Firemouth in would...IMO...make this look like a tank in a fish store, loaded with a swirling mess of fish...and, again IMO, that isn't in any way attractive. Too much activity, too much potential for aggression with something like a Firemouth, too much potential stress on something like a Ram, and nothing to be gained. There's no rule stating that every tank must be populated to its maximum possible stocking level. Less can be more.

It sounds like you have a nice peaceful healthy attractive tank. Keep it that way! If you must add something, how about a couple of Amano shrimp? They're different, they're visible without being overwhelming, they might serve a function as cleaners, they won't cause any aggression and they are a very small addition to your bioload.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I have been wondering about the temperament. I have read that they are less aggressive than most Cichlids and its good to hear about someones experience. I really enjoy my Odessas, they are wicked fast and about half the size of a full grown Firemouth so I'm not too worried about them.

It is always a bit of a risk with Cichlids but My experience with firemouths has always been positive. As far as the numbers go , if your filter can handle it and you want it , go for it. You might be a bit busy but it is a personal preference.

 

In terms of bioload, I'm sure your filter would be able to handle the increased load, although it would require a bit of time to increase its population of bacteria to match the increased amount of ammonia being released into the tank. This is, of course, the case whenever the bioload of an aquarium is increased. The bacteria need to multiply to "catch up".

I simply meant that, IMO, there's already a lot going on in there. All those fish are active and on the move all the time. Putting a Firemouth in would...IMO...make this look like a tank in a fish store, loaded with a swirling mess of fish...and, again IMO, that isn't in any way attractive. Too much activity, too much potential for aggression with something like a Firemouth, too much potential stress on something like a Ram, and nothing to be gained. There's no rule stating that every tank must be populated to its maximum possible stocking level. Less can be more.

It sounds like you have a nice peaceful healthy attractive tank. Keep it that way! If you must add something, how about a couple of Amano shrimp? They're different, they're visible without being overwhelming, they might serve a function as cleaners, they won't cause any aggression and they are a very small addition to your bioload.

They are quite active fish. I don't think I have reached fish store status yet but I can see how a 6+ inch Firemouth might put the tank over the edge in that regard. I agree as well that less can be more. I enjoyed just the Odessas in there for 6 months before adding the Corys. The Cory's are a fairly recent addition so I may enjoy the tank for a few months and contemplate a little more if it is worth adding anything else. Patience seems to be the name of the game in this hobby anyway.

I have considered shrimp before but haven't done a lot of research. I was under the impression that they may not fare well in a community tank. I do believe that I have enough plant cover so maybe its worth a shot. Not sure if I can get a hold of Amanos here. Is there a reason you recommend those specifically?

 

Amanos are bigger and less delicate than Red Cherry Shrimp. They are usually out on display, they are enthusiastic feeders without being actually aggressive, and they won't breed in your tank and over-run it with little shrimplets. Just something a little different, interesting to the fish-keeper and non-threatening to other tank inhabitants.

 

A firemouth isn't going to make the tank busier. If anything it'll add some calmness. The barbs will be super active as they are, and the firemouth will hang out looking elegant down at the bottom.

I wouldn't add shrimp in with barbs. They'll harass them, and when one does die and they discover they can be food... Barbs are a lot smarter than they get credit for.

As for bioload, firemouths aren't that much compared to other cichlids, like oscars, green terrors, etc. A 7 inch oscar is much bigger than a 7 inch firemouth. Plus you'll be getting the firemouth at 2 inches tops most likely, so you won't have to worry about an ammonia spike or anything.

 

Kind of hit and miss in your opinion as far as aggressive temperament? A Ram would be my next choice. I think I would go with Bolivian, less colorful but I keep reading that they are easier to keep than German Blues are. Would I run into similar issues with an Acara as I would with a Firemouth? Regarding temperament and size.[/QUOTE
As far as Firemouths go they are more docile cichlids but I have had one that was super aggressive, just depends on the fish. Acaras in my personal experience have had better temperment, but that’s not a guaranteed that it won’t be at all aggressive. Cichlids termerment depends a lot on the individual fish. I have had a gold and blue ram for over a year and they are my favorite fish and do great as long as water parameters are kept very well, but do stress easily. As others have said before, with the barbs being so active and your tank being almost at max stocking, a Cichlid may not be your best choice.

 

Firemouths are a gregarious species that lives in small groups. So one on its own won’t be behaving ‘normally’, so it could go either way. It could be shy or it could be a tyrant.
I wouldn’t keep one on its own, but if I did a 36x12 would be a bit cramped, especially in close quarters with other fish.
And of course they’re from hard alkaline water, and won’t appreciate soft water.

 

Firemouths are a gregarious species that lives in small groups. So one on its own won’t be behaving ‘normally’, so it could go either way. It could be shy or it could be a tyrant.
I wouldn’t keep one on its own, but if I did a 36x12 would be a bit cramped, especially in close quarters with other fish.
And of course they’re from hard alkaline water, and won’t appreciate soft water.

I’m starting to agree, I have seen some pictures of adult Firemouths in a 30 and even a single fish makes the tank look small. I’ll add it to my potential fish for when I upgrade to a 55 sometime down the line.

A firemouth isn't going to make the tank busier. If anything it'll add some calmness. The barbs will be super active as they are, and the firemouth will hang out looking elegant down at the bottom.

I wouldn't add shrimp in with barbs. They'll harass them, and when one does die and they discover they can be food... Barbs are a lot smarter than they get credit for.

As for bioload, firemouths aren't that much compared to other cichlids, like oscars, green terrors, etc. A 7 inch oscar is much bigger than a 7 inch firemouth. Plus you'll be getting the firemouth at 2 inches tops most likely, so you won't have to worry about an ammonia spike or anything.

Thanks for the input. I was thinking the same thing when I first posted about having a calmer fish.

I think I’m going to wait for a bigger tank anyway. At 2-4 inches it would be fine but seeing some 30 gallons online with 6 inch fish I’m just not sure I have the room, especially because of my plants and hardscape.

 

Have 2 questions.
1. Can a single firemouth in a community tank eat fully grown zebra danios and small corydoras ( they are half the size compared to fully grown corydoras) ?

2. Can the firemouth be a fin nipper too and tear the tails of veiltail serpae tetras eventually leading them to death and also tear the fins of veiltail small rosy barbs(2-2.5 inch in size) though none of the rosy barbs are dead yet.

P.S. - Asking these 2 questions on behalf of a friend as he is not very good in English. I neither own any firemouth nor owned any serpae tetra.

 

An adult Firemouth is capable of eating Zebra Danios and Cory Cats, and certainly can be a fin nipper. That being said, Firemouths are far less likely to do those things as compared to other similar sized CA Cichlids. Firemouths do much better in groups rather than keeping solo.

 

See I too have known firemouths to be a gentle fish and do those things less likely.
My friend also bought the firemouth thinking it would do well in a community tank considering that firemouths are not that aggressive cichlid.
But since the last few days, the firemouth has obviously grown a bit more than it was purchased.
I would be say close to fully grown.
Now my friend is seeing 1-2 zebra danios vanishing from tank every other day.
Sometimes 1 zebra vanishes sometimes 2 like this almost every day. The tank used to have 14 zebras now it got left only 2.
Also 6 small corydoras has vanished along with this but all the fully grown corydoras are left unharmed. Also the serpae tetras died too probably because of excessive fin nipping and the rosy barbs are small, they are showing fin nipping behaviours too.
Since only the smaller fish is dying of 2 particular species and then only the smaller ones of the corydoras died, so I thought this is not a water issue but maybe some other fish is eating them.
The firemouth is big enough to eat them and its mouth's size is enough to swallow them.
So I thought maybe the firemouth was the culprit but I was not sure as I never had kept firemouth before.
Now the tank also has 2 other fish that might be the culprit too but I highly doubt it.
It has a small 3 inch sized gold severum (the severum is temporary though) and a 4-4.5 sized featherfin squeaker.
I know that it could be severum also but it is so small and gentle that I have my doubts. Plus he says has never seen the severum showing any signs of aggression. I know the severum could not be kept there permanently as it grows bigger, my friend also says he plans to rehome it in 6 months.
The tank is 35g.
So who do you think is eating those fishes?
What should I advice my friend?
What is the solution?

 

Sorry, I do not have any experience with cichlids and have even less knowledge on Firemouths particularly.

 

I have had convicts and an Oscar. Never had or been around a fire mouth.

 

I've kept Firemouths at several different points over the years.
They are mildly aggressive cichlids as compared to other Central American Cichlids. The biggest any of mine reached was about 6". Firemouths do better in groups of four & up. They establish a heirarchy. Most of their aggression is limited to "Flaring" at each other. Like any fish, FM's are capable of eating any fish that can fit in their mouth. I don't recall any of mine knocking off any of the Buenos Aires Tetras kept with them. Firemouths are a great fish to keep & IMO an under rated species.

 

My firemouth got harassed by my serpae tetras.. they were far worse in the fin nipping game, bugged everyone in the tank. Had to switch to switch to BA and Colombian Tetras and we both liked them much better. The fire mouth seemed more agitated alone. He got much happier once he had 2 FM friends, and quit bugging everyone else. They really are one of the more peaceful cichlids, just picky. Once you figure out what makes them happy, they’re awesome.

 

I think most cichlids will have a snack of fish that will fit in their mouth. Rememvering a thread about a Pygmy Cory stuck in an Angel's mouth. Thry are small but smart !

 

I've kept Firemouths at several different points over the years.
They are mildly aggressive cichlids as compared to other Central American Cichlids. The biggest any of mine reached was about 6". Firemouths do better in groups of four & up. They establish a heirarchy. Most of their aggression is limited to "Flaring" at each other. Like any fish, FM's are capable of eating any fish that can fit in their mouth. I don't recall any of mine knocking off any of the Buenos Aires Tetras kept with them. Firemouths are a great fish to keep & IMO an under rated species.View attachment 554336 View attachment 554337

See I get that firemouth do good in groups and mildly aggressive unlike other cichlids.
Also yes, I know cichlids can eat any fish that can fit in its mouth.
That's what I thought but I am not sure.
You seem experienced in firemouth keeping and I assume you know the size of zebra danios too.
So can you tell me what do you really think about this?
Is the firemouth eating all the zebra danios?

Sorry, I do not have any experience with cichlids and have even less knowledge on Firemouths particularly.

I have had convicts and an Oscar. Never had or been around a fire mouth.

Do you guys have any knowledge about featherfin squeaker or a severum?
Do you guys think maybe any of them could have eaten the zebra danios and the cories?(though the severum is 3-3.5 inches only)
Any help would be helpful.
My friend could return the fish that's eating my smaller fishes to the LFS but we are unable to decide which fish is to be returned as really could not determine which fish is eating them.
Also he has never seen any 3 of the fishes harassing, eating, chasing or trying to eat the smaller fishes.
It's just that they keep on vanishing day by day after the severum, firemouth and featherfin squeaker have been added. The 3 fishes were added almost around the same time.

I think most cichlids will have a snack of fish that will fit in their mouth. Rememvering a thread about a Pygmy Cory stuck in an Angel's mouth. Thry are small but smart !

An adult Firemouth is capable of eating Zebra Danios and Cory Cats, and certainly can be a fin nipper. That being said, Firemouths are far less likely to do those things as compared to other similar sized CA Cichlids. Firemouths do much better in groups rather than keeping solo.

So everyone of you guys are saying that firemouths though are mild aggressive but can eat any fish that fits in its mouth.
What I want to know is do adult zebra danios can fit into firemouth's mouth?
And also what do you guys think about the severum and the featherfin squeaker?
Could the featherfin squeaker or the severum (only 3-3.5 inches) have eaten the smaller fishes?
He would return the fish who is eating the fishes but we can not determine which fish to return as we are unable to identify the culprit fish.
Or if anyone could tell me why only the zebra danios and corydoras vanished when no other fish died. So I don't think the water quality can be an issue. The tank has a school of rosy barbs, red eye tetras, rainbow fishes, giant danios and 2 gouramis and a loach. Everybody is fine, even the large corydoras are fine too. Only the small cories and zebra danios are getting vanished.
Can anyone state the reason behind this?

 

If it fits in a cichlids mouth, it’s a snack. So if the Danio and zebra were small enough, either the fire mouth or Sev could be guilty.

 

Hey please help us guys...who do you think is eating the the danios and the cories?
Is it the severum or the firemouth or something else?
Or are they dying out for some other reasons?
We can return the fish responsible for this to the LFS so please help us guys identifying the culprit or maybe culprits.

 

I just purchased a Firemouth (pending pickup) from my Lfs and was wondering about comparability. Now in my 125 I have a copper oscar, 2 Jack dempseys, and a BP. All maybe around 5 months old with a few good inches on them. The firemouth looks fully grown and while I have a separate tank setup cycled and ready to go I would rather it go within the other cichlids. They all loom too big to fit in the mouth of the firemouth but it's definitively bigger than the rest. Would this work out? And I have plans on moving all fish to other tanks when they need it so stocking isn't a issue.

 

I don't keep these fish and can only comment from the outside, but I would have thought it self-evident that five territorial fish in one territory could result in some territorial behaviour.

 

Firemouths are more bark than bite and pose no threat to the listed tankmates.
Firemouths do better in groups. Their aggression is usually limited to flaring at each other.
The Firemouth will eventually be the low fish on the food chain in your current community.

 

I don't keep these fish and can only comment from the outside, but I would have thought it self-evident that five territorial fish in one territory could result in some territorial behaviour.

The others have been brought up together and really the low fish is a JD the BP usually protects it from the dominant one. None have physically done any damage to the other. The only problem I've ever had was the red devil I had constantly attacking the oscar at night. It's in a tank on its own and has calmed a lot. Again if need be I have a tank ready to go.

Firemouths are more bark than bite and pose no threat to the listed tankmates.
Firemouths do better in groups. Their aggression is usually limited to flaring at each other.
The Firemouth will eventually be the low fish on the food chain in your current community.

This one in particular was surrendered and due to its size has been alone for a month with no one taking him but with a 50 dollar price tag compared to the smaller ones at 10 bucks I can see why lol. I read that aggression was really only a issue with a mating pair and since coming across another that size isn't a everyday thing I figured that after the 24hr chaser my oscar does it'll be better off so long as it doesn't decide everyone has to die. But it's not off the table to get it a mate assuming I find one comparable in size.