Fire belly newts in canada?

Joker77

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just wondering what the deal is with these. I had one as a kid and it was a fantastic pet. Went to half a dozen pet stores over the weekend and none carried them or knew anything about them. They seemed like a staple pet(along with the fire belly toads) for all the pet stores when I was a kid but now there no-where to be found.

Is this another example of the canadian government banning pointless **** and they've been added to the list with such items such as fish meds, blow guns, Jarts, throwing stars(but throwing knives are okay) one handed crossbows(but two handed okay...)
 

juniperlea

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I looked it up, and found this:



Sorry, it looks like you're out of luck. I'm the in the US, and am just learning about the Canadian restrictions. The other day, I found out that my beautiful golden dojos are illegal in Michigan. It's understandable, but more than frustrating. Sure glad I don't live in Michigan though!
 

MacZ

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Makes totally sense to me. Firebellies are temperate climate amphibians, so any pathogens they carry can potentially survive outside your tanks. Can happen with a water change already. Seems Canada has learned from Australia in that regard.

Ever seen what happens when disease or neozoans take over an ecosystem? Not funny. I worked at a nature reserve once (Germany had mandatory year of military or civilian service for young people after we finished school back then) and was mostly working with aquatic wildlife and bats. That year we had an outbreak of two things: North American crayfish and crayfish plague. The crayfish were everywhere: small creeks, ditches, streets, we even found one in the garage of the ranger station. For every 50 specimens of North American crayfish wie picked up and removed from the ecosystem we only found one specimen of an endemic species and all endemic specimens were diseased and dying, while the invading species shrugged it off.
Half of the work we young civil servants had to do was some kind of removing foreign species from the reserve: Trees, weeds, animals (mammals, fish, insects, crayfish, other inverts). We were given lists with species and how to identify them and which way to neutralize them best. We had a lot of crayfish dinners...

Things like these are highly dangerous for ecosystem-stability. And now think: Central Europe doesn't have the vast continuous stretches of wilderness Canada has. That's why such work as we did makes at least some sense, because of the smaller areas can be contained better. An outbreak in such a big country as Canada can't be contained that easy, so it can have catastrophic effects.

Be glad your country sets preventive restrictions. Here these restrictions only got considered when it was too late in most cases. Sometimes so late the kids I guided through the reserve sometimes thought the invasive species were endemic already.
 

Themaniac19

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There's a breeder in Alberta who sells them for about $80 a piece last time I saw her. They're all captive bred too.
 

saltwater60

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Themaniac19 said:
There's a breeder in Alberta who sells them for about $80 a piece last time I saw her. They're all captive bred too.
Funny they are $15.00 in the USA. $80 each is insane.
 

saltwater60

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MacZ said:
Makes totally sense to me. Firebellies are temperate climate amphibians, so any pathogens they carry can potentially survive outside your tanks. Can happen with a water change already. Seems Canada has learned from Australia in that regard.

Ever seen what happens when disease or neozoans take over an ecosystem? Not funny. I worked at a nature reserve once (Germany had mandatory year of military or civilian service for young people after we finished school back then) and was mostly working with aquatic wildlife and bats. That year we had an outbreak of two things: North American crayfish and crayfish plague. The crayfish were everywhere: small creeks, ditches, streets, we even found one in the garage of the ranger station. For every 50 specimens of North American crayfish wie picked up and removed from the ecosystem we only found one specimen of an endemic species and all endemic specimens were diseased and dying, while the invading species shrugged it off.
Half of the work we young civil servants had to do was some kind of removing foreign species from the reserve: Trees, weeds, animals (mammals, fish, insects, crayfish, other inverts). We were given lists with species and how to identify them and which way to neutralize them best. We had a lot of crayfish dinners...

Things like these are highly dangerous for ecosystem-stability. And now think: Central Europe doesn't have the vast continuous stretches of wilderness Canada has. That's why such work as we did makes at least some sense, because of the smaller areas can be contained better. An outbreak in such a big country as Canada can't be contained that easy, so it can have catastrophic effects.

Be glad your country sets preventive restrictions. Here these restrictions only got considered when it was too late in most cases. Sometimes so late the kids I guided through the reserve sometimes thought the invasive species were endemic already.
Funny though most native species are banned as pets at least where I live. In NYS it’s illegal for my son to even hold a native toad. So they can’t have it both ways?
I agree it’s a problem. I get my Japanese trapdoor snails from my local water way and I don’t live in Japan. People have let them go. Yes it’s a problem. The sad thing is because others don’t act responsibly the responsible pay the price.
 

MacZ

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That's preservation then. I don't know which kind of toad, but you better leave endangered species undisturbed if possible.
I would be allowed to keep common species, taking them directly from their habitat, here. I would also be allowed to breed them, sell them etc. But not to reintroduce them to the wild without a specialist checking my stock for diseases and giving me a go.
With endangered species it's not even legal to rescue them without at least taking them to a vet or reserve or sanctuary first. After that people that have the means to do so often get a permit to keep these animals until ready for reintroduction or sometimes indefinitely in case the specimen is unable to survive because of injury or disabilities. So this can be somewhat of a grey zone.

Thing with the states is, that every state has different legislatures, isn't it? I bet there are some laws in some states that make no sense at all, while others would be effective and considerate.
 

saltwater60

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MacZ said:
That's preservation then. I don't know which kind of toad, but you better leave endangered species undisturbed if possible.
I would be allowed to keep common species, taking them directly from their habitat, here. I would also be allowed to breed them, sell them etc. But not to reintroduce them to the wild without a specialist checking my stock for diseases and giving me a go.
With endangered species it's not even legal to rescue them without at least taking them to a vet or reserve or sanctuary first. After that people that have the means to do so often get a permit to keep these animals until ready for reintroduction or sometimes indefinitely in case the specimen is unable to survive because of injury or disabilities. So this can be somewhat of a grey zone.

Thing with the states is, that every state has different legislatures, isn't it? I bet there are some laws in some states that make no sense at all, while others would be effective and considerate.
They are not endangered. They are the common American toad. I actually built a large pond in my backyard to give them a breeding spot. I was able to get 5 toads to come this year with 3 breedings. I had tons of baby toads in my backyard and had to stop cutting my lawn for like 3-4 weeks. It’s illegal for my son in my state to pick the toads up that I have bred in my backyard pond in early spring. In NYS it’s illegal to sell painted turtles in pet shops because they may have come from NYS. Also they can’t take ones people no longer want. So then they let things go in local water ways they shouldn’t.
I also get tadpoles from local waterways that my parents own and grow them out in my pond. I then take them and let them go at a local pond. I’ve actually reestablished a frog population at this local pond that was lacking for years.
Any turtle(except snapping turtle), snake, salamander, lizard, and certain frogs and toads possession at anytime is illegal in NYS. I just think this goes too far and they do patrol. I was at a local pond I catch turtles and frogs at and the county worker came over and told me the DEC was over there and would ticket me for what I was doing. At the time I had no idea it was illegal. We catch, observe, and release.

 

MissPanda

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I'm going to the pet store today, so I'm going to look when I'm there out of curiosity. I never thought about if they're still around or not, but if they banned them there's prob a good reason. The environment and ecosystem trumps someone keeping the pet they like. I've always wanted a pet rat, but that's illegal in alberta. Supposedly rat free here and I don't want no 10,000 fine for bringing one in. Hah
 

saltwater60

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MissPanda said:
I'm going to the pet store today, so I'm going to look when I'm there out of curiosity. I never thought about if they're still around or not, but if they banned them there's prob a good reason. The environment and ecosystem trumps someone keeping the pet they like. I've always wanted a pet rat, but that's illegal in alberta. Supposedly rat free here and I don't want no 10,000 fine for bringing one in. Hah
It does. I won’t disagree with you there? Again it’s not the pet that causes issues it people not following good practices or laws already put in place.
A rat in your possession in a proper cage is no harm to anyone or anything. This issues is careless people or people say I don't want this rat anymore and release it. I caught an iguana in a football field in NYS. How does that happen?

How about trade and business? Most exotic hitch hikers come from global trade at this point. Is our eco system worth more than that good from China, India, or elsewhere.
Just pointing out it’s not only pet owners.
 

Themaniac19

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MissPanda said:
I've always wanted a pet rat, but that's illegal in alberta. Supposedly rat free here and I don't want no 10,000 fine for bringing one in. Hah
African soft fur rats are legal.
 

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