Finally Get A New Breeding Pair And 1 Dies.

Cljensen

I took a break from here and trying to breed my Angel's as every attempt I made ended up at the 3 week mark with a bunch of dead fry. My only proven breeding pair stopped spawning altogether 6 months ago and none of my 2 year olds pairs were doing anything.

As a last ditch effort I switched my breeding pair male out for another Male I had and she started spawning again. Alas I think her spawning days are done. Her last spawn was no more than 20 eggs. They have been dwindling significantly with every spawn. I have no idea how old she is but shes at the very least 4 and a half years old now.

I went downstairs Sunday to do a water change on my 55, with plans to put my old angel back with her original partner and swap her out with my 2 year old blue and just give her a comfortable place to do as she pleased. Well much to my surprise one of the 2 pairs in my 55 had wigglers, not eggs, wigglers. I have no idea how I missed the spawn for at least 2 days but I did.

So of course my excitement gets up alot, my 2 year olds are finally spawning and this pair has the Male who was half black on one side and marble on the other with an orange crown. This is the guy I was hoping to get a spawn from most of all. I watch this spawn for 2 days, these 2 are awesome parents, they are guarding haven't eaten them and it's their first spawn. Today I go down when I get home to find the Male dead!. I am so hoping the wigglers actually make it. And I'm not so sure he was a Male after all, when I looked this morning his breeding tube was down and he looked to be female. The gold who was with him I thought was a female, but her breeding tube looks to be Male when I saw it today.

So long story short I have no idea if I have a Male or female marble in that tank. I do know it's a nasty one whom so far only liked this partner. I have wigglers that I desperately want to move but am afraid to loose them all doing so as I keep loosing my wigglers when I take them from their parents and a lone angel who is definitely capable of breeding and is a good parent. Unfortunately I have no desire to breed straight gold Angel's, they don't seem to sell well here.

Sorry for my long post I'm just so frustrated with the breeding of Angel's this past year.
 

nikm128

If you need any help with them bizaliz3 and angelcraze would be the ones to ask
Sorry for the loss though
 

angelcraze

Oh no! I'm so sorry for your loss
Sorry to ask questions, but I want to make sure I have this straight. So the 2 year old gold marble with a black half side was killed by his/her partner who was also 2 years old on their first spawn? There are still wigglers in the tank? Or did you remove the wigglers for artificial raising?

I don't think your 4.5 year old's spawning days are over though. I have 5 year olds and older still breeding. Unless she laid a ton of eggs when she was younger, she shouldn't be done yet. I read the females are able to lay a certain amount of eggs in their lifetime. So unless she laid them all when she was younger, my guess is they are not over. I guess every fish is different, but it might have something to do with what she's eating, or her health/genetics.

bizaliz3 is always great to help with eggs. I really hope they survive too! Do you have baby brine shrimp or microworms ready for the babies?
 

Cljensen

angelcraze please don't apologize for asking questions.

So the 2 year old gold marble with a black half side was killed by his/her partner who was also 2 years old on their first spawn? There are still wigglers in the tank? Or did you remove the wigglers for artificial raising?

Yes. I had what I thought was a Male whom was a half black on one side and marble on the other, one fish 2 totally different markings. bizaliz3 and Mcasella couldn't figure out what he would be after looking at the pictures of him. His partner I'm assuming killed him as he was fine at 7 am and dead at 5 pm. The pair are both 2 years old, they are siblings and this is the first time any of the ones I kept from that lot laid eggs.

I did take the wigglers yesterday as this tank is shared with another pair and as soon as the wigglers are free swimming they can make it through the holes in the divider and would have been eaten.

I do have baby brine shrimp hatching now as well as frozen which I've had to rely on for the moment. My big issue was I had no idea how old they were as I didn't notice them until the were wigglers so I had no idea when to start hatching brine shrimp. The wigglers went free swimming over night and they are taking the frozen bbs for the moment. This is a good sign for me as none of the last batches over the last 18 months actually swam, they all bottom scooted for 2 weeks or more then died off.

I can't be sure how many eggs my older girl laid given when she was younger as she different owners for the first 2 to 3 years, but when I first got her she would lay an average of 3 to 4 hundred eggs. I figure if nothing else I'll throw her in my community tank as she won't lay eggs if there are other fish in the tank. And maybe in 6 months to a year move her back to a breeding tank. As far as food she gets omega 3 cichlid flakes, blood worms both dehydrated and frozen, as well as ultra worm medley flakes. If there is something else I should give her please let me know.
 

Cljensen

If you need any help with them bizaliz3 and angelcraze would be the ones to ask
Sorry for the loss though

Thanks nikm128.

bizaliz3 and Mcasella have helped me out a lot in the past.
 

angelcraze

Wow thanks for answering Your angel who unfortunately passed sounded very cool. I would like to see pics too, maybe I'll search for your thread.

Just curious, how big is the tank where you have the divider and two pairs? I've considered doing the same.

Congrats on the free swimmers then I wish you all the luck with this batch.
So exciting that your angel babies are having babies

Maybe you are right about your female then. Sounds like she's had a few good spawns before to put it lightly. 300-400 is a good healthy spawn. The only thing about the food is I like to feed angelfish pellets instead of flake. That's totally me and how I do things. I feel the adult angels get more nutrition per bite and flakes are too messy for me.
The best bands that I have found for staple foods is NorthFin, NLS and Omega One.

Fyi, just a tip, you only want to see 1 of these filler ingredients
Potato starch, soybean, wheat
 

Cljensen

I do have Angel's that prefer pellets, but this pair looks at them as they fall to the bottom and shake their heads no. It's hilarious to watch but a waste of food. The multI worm flakes have no fillers that I recall, but I will double check them tomorrow. I'm pretty sure the omega cichlids due but only as a binder. Thanks for the tip though I will make sure I check fillers in the food from now on.

Here's the pictures of the one I lost. Still not sure if it was Male or female as I never saw them spawn but it was picked on by every other fish except for the one it was with and bizaliz3 and Mcasella thought its partner was female by the breeding tube.
 

Cljensen

Just curious, how big is the tank where you have the divider and two pairs? I've considered doing the same.

It's a 55 corner. It's really deep and was meant to be temporary until I got breeding pairs. I used plexI glass to divide the tank and placed large plants on either side. For the most part they ignore each other.
 

angelcraze

Thanks for the pics, he was really amazing. He really looks like two different fish on each side. I've never seen anything like that.

I might try dividing a tank if I need more space, glad that it works. Actually, now i'm curious, is the plexiglass perforated? Like water circulation between the divider?

Keep us updated on the fry
 

Cljensen

There are 6 left. I gave them the l bbs this morning an 1 definitely ate, but I don't think the other 5 did. I have 2 darks fry, 2 albinos and 2 that look like they are gold or light marbles as they have no coloring. The albinos are the strongest swimmers in the tank always swimming to and fro so I'm hoping they make it as they seem to be a stronger albino than my older breeding pair make, but it was one of my dark fru that actually ate.

Here's to hoping they all make it. It's a super small spawn but we've made it farther than any spawn in the last 18 months as they are eating and swimming.
 

angelcraze

The hardest part about a small spawn is not over feeding. So easy to put in too much food. So if I could give some advice, that's what I'll tell you, concentrate on cleaning the bottom. A turkey baster is great for quick clean ups.

Good luck with them. I only got two survivors from my last batch before I took a break, but two is better than none.
 

Cljensen

Yes I clean the bottom with a turkey baster and a straw several times a day. I've been letting the gunk settle in a secondary tank and then use the Turkey baster to siphon the water back into the fry tank minus the junk from the bottom. If I didnt ild be doing water changes several times a day. I do a water change every day as well but I don't want the change the water too often.
 

Cljensen

And then there were 2. And I am SUPPER excited. I haven't had any survive in 18 months. I am amazed and thrilled and so excited. I am hoping this is the start of a whole new round of breeding Angel's.

I did do a few things differently this time like doing water changes using water from the parents tank instead of aged fresh water for the first few days and then half aged tap water and half water from the parents tank until I used only aged tap water. I also put the breeding tank inside the 10 gallon using just an air pump for air instead of using it as a hang on the side breeder tank. I will transfer it outside the tank once they are big enough to not fit through the overflow plastic stopper. I'm not sure if any of this made a difference or if they were stronger fru being from a younger mom but I don't care. I just super happy.

On another note I did a angel shuffle last weekend due to the one dieing and all seems to be well with the new "pairs". I'm stil not sure if the one is 2 males or not but they are getting along in their own tank. There will be another shuffle of tanks in a few weeks. I had to keep an eye on 3 of my temperamental Angel's during the shuffle so I had to put them in my display tanks instead of my breeding tanks.
 

Cljensen

And then there were 2. And I am SUPPER excited. I haven't had any survive in 18 months. I am amazed and thrilled and so excited. I am hoping this is the start of a whole new round of breeding Angel's.

I did do a few things differently this time like doing water changes using water from the parents tank instead of aged fresh water for the first few days and then half aged tap water and half water from the parents tank until I used only aged tap water. I also put the breeding tank inside the 10 gallon using just an air pump for air instead of using it as a hang on the side breeder tank. I will transfer it outside the tank once they are big enough to not fit through the overflow plastic stopper. I'm not sure if any of this made a difference or if they were stronger fru being from a younger mom but I don't care. I just super happy.

On another note I did a angel shuffle last weekend due to the one dieing and all seems to be well with the new "pairs". I'm stil not sure if the one is 2 males or not but they are getting along in their own tank. There will be another shuffle of tanks in a few weeks. I had to keep an eye on 3 of my temperamental Angel's during the shuffle so I had to put them in my display tanks instead of my breeding tanks.
 

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