Fin Rot on gourami

Tuufy
  • #1
Both my gouramis are showing signs of fin rot. I have not encountered this before so have no clue.

I have added stress coat to the tank.

I have pimafix but don't know if it is suitable for gouramis.

I can set them up in a hospital tank if needed.

I did my weekly 10% water change yesterday with weekly vacuum and treated with prime.

I add salt to the tank every 4- 6 weeks.

My tank is cycled, I use the apI test kit and tested yesterday, no ammonia, no nitrites or nitrates.

I did recently have Ich but, got rid of that, I had started to bring the tank temp down a bit, but have cranked it back up and increased the air flow from the bubbler again.

Any advice?

Should I get some Bettafix? as gouramis and bettas are the same but different?
 
AlyeskaGirl
  • #2
Well, according to your parameter readings your tank is not cycled as you should have a nirtrate reading. It shouldn't be zero unless it's a heavily planted tank. Did you shake that #2 nitrate bottle really good before adding the drops and shaking the test tube after?

Fin rot is the edges of fins turn white, look raggedy, they begin to be eaten away. Is this what is happening? Can you post a pic?

Also you are not changing enough water, you should be doing at least 30% weekly.

For fin rot daily water changes with Stress Coat will clear it up. Clean water is the key. It can take a few weeks, so don't get anxious. Always try with water changes first and if it gets too bad then meds can be used as a last resort.
 
Tuufy
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
30% weekly man where did I get 10% from!!!!!!!!!!!

OK will do another water change once hubby has gone to work and will know in future.

I shook everything up well with the nitrate reading chems like I do with everything.

I have previously taken my water to be tested with the strips and they have told me as well all is ok. I thought A reading of 0 - 5 for nitrates was the nirvana of fish keeping.............. Nitrates is the last thing to drop down right?

I tested the water prior to adding Prime and if the tank wasn't cycled surely I would also show ammonia and nitrites too?

I don't have plants in the tank other than algae which is a good sign right?

Do I need to set up a hospital tank?
 
AlyeskaGirl
  • #4
I wouldn't move them just do water changes & a good substrate vac.

Is your tank stocked lightly with fish?
 
toosie
  • #5
15 small fish in a 40 gallon tank doesn't create a lot of nitrates but they do accumulate. 10% water changes used to be and maybe still are what a lot of fish stores recommend. To keep a tank really healthy though, AlyeskaGirl is giving very good advice about changing more water at a time. 30% is really the minimum that should be changed weekly to keep the tank healthy, but as your stock increases, you may even want to do 50% weekly water changes. There is nothing like fresh clean water to keep your fish healthy.
 
Jaysee
  • #6
Fresh water is the best cure for fin rot.
 
Tuufy
  • Thread Starter
  • #7
I wouldn't move them just do water changes & a good substrate vac.

Is your tank stocked lightly with fish?

Sorry what do you mean by stocked lightly?

Am I gonna get more fish? not sure not sure how many is too many in a 40 gallon tank, although looking at it, looks like I would be ok to get more as there is plenty of space for more activity.

Anyway I still could use some answers to the cycled not cycled question too????

15 small fish in a 40 gallon tank doesn't create a lot of nitrates but they do accumulate. 10% water changes used to be and maybe still are what a lot of fish stores recommend. To keep a tank really healthy though, AlyeskaGirl is giving very good advice about changing more water at a time. 30% is really the minimum that should be changed weekly to keep the tank healthy, but as your stock increases, you may even want to do 50% weekly water changes. There is nothing like fresh clean water to keep your fish healthy.

What would be a good stocking level for this size tank?

I realized I needed to update my fish stocking info, I had also put it in my signature line, but it wasn't showing, it is now wooppeeee!!
 
AlyeskaGirl
  • #8
Sorry what do you mean by stocked lightly?

Am I gonna get more fish? not sure not sure how many is too many in a 40 gallon tank, although looking at it, looks like I would be ok to get more as there is plenty of space for more activity.

Anyway I still could use some answers to the cycled not cycled question too????


No need to be sorry, you are here for help and if you don't understand just speak up no matter what it is. Anyway, I meant by if your tank is under stocked. Fish load has to do with how fast nitrAtes build up. Basically fish waste. I just found it odd that you have zero nitrAtes. You should have some slight color orange, maybe it's so low its not registering. lol Do you hold the tube up against the card in good lighting? Having zero ammonia and nitrites IS a good sign.

I would add some bottom dwellers like Corys when you decide to add more. At least 5 Corys. They are entertaining, rummaging around for food scraps. lol
 
toosie
  • #9
Considering how old your tank is, it is likely cycled, unless you have been changing your media in your filter. This could cause a tank not to be cycled, because the benefical bacteria has to re-establish a colony in the new media each time it is changed. We recommend only rinsing media when it gets grungy preferably in a container of used tank water and reuse it until it is falling apart. When it does become necessary to add new media try to keep as much of the old filter media in place as you can as well for at least 2 weeks. This will help seed the new media and prevent a cycle. Do replace any activated carbon you may be using, every 3 to 4 weeks.

Adding salt to a freshwater aquarium isn't always a good idea. Most of us don't use salt except for possibly treating fish for certain ailments, and then it is usually just done on a short term basis. Also, while heat is good for some ailments, it can make others worse. For the finrot, because it's caused by a bacterial infection heat can actually make the fins deteriorate faster. I'd drop down the heat slowly to about 78F.

Your stock does look like it has changed since the last time I looked. I usually tend to let others help with stocking, but it looks to me like you could use some bottom feeders. I'll let others tell you their opinion on it, but I wouldn't add any fish until the ones you have, have recovered.
 
Tuufy
  • Thread Starter
  • #10
Well gonna do a good water change today so most of the salt will be gone now anyway, I went by what was recommended on the salt box for freshwater fish.

Am currently dropping temp as we speak.

I do check the color of the chemicals against the card.................I have also taken water to get tested at the pet store to double check. They said everything was A ok.........................

Not planning more fish til we are in the clear with any bacterias, fin rot or anything else that rears its head....................

So salt is just used for medicinal purposes.

Good bacteria sets up in the filter media not in the filter mechanics?

Why change out the carbon after 4 weeks?

If I am using prime weekly do I even need carbon?

I thought heat was good to get rid of bacteria, I was told to raise the temp when I had ICH which is a bacteria infection????

SO Many questions.................

what would be a good stocking level for a 40 gal tank?
 
toosie
  • #11
Well gonna do a good water change today so most of the salt will be gone now anyway, I went by what was recommended on the salt box for freshwater fish.

It used to be common practice to add salt to a freshwater tank. Problem is, salt tends to accumulate in the tank due to evaporation. When water evaporates, it leaves the salt behind. Salt irritates the skin of freshwater fish. This tends to cause fish to excrete excess slime coat which is why it was commonly used. They thought this excess slime coat was good for the fish and would help it fight off pathogens. As it turns out, it does little more than irritate the fish causing it stress. They are afterall, freshwater fish, and are not used to salt in their water. As a treatment aid though, in pretty rare occasions, it can be beneficial.

Am currently dropping temp as we speak.

I do check the color of the chemicals against the card.................I have also taken water to get tested at the pet store to double check. They said everything was A ok.........................

A lot of employess at fish stores are unaware what it actually takes to cycle a tank. If all of the tests read 0, they consider this good, as in nothing in the water that should harm the fish. While this may be true at the time of the test, it gives new hobbiests a false sense of security because 2 days later all of the fish are dying, but "why" afterall, all of the tests were good. The why is because the employee (through not necessarily any fault of there own, training is not adequate in many cases) have not taken the information further telling the customer, "but unfortunately it doesn't look like your tank is cycled." Which maybe should lead to more questions about how long the tank has been running, how many live plants are in it, etc.

If you do get water tested at the store, try not to accept "it's good" for an answer. Find out what the exact numbers are for each test. Some stores will tell you that .25 ammonia or nitrites are good too, which really, they aren't. It means things are starting to go goofy in the tank and immediate action, or at the very least, constant monitoring should be carried out, depending on the situatiion such as cycling, recent stock increase, etc.

Not planning more fish til we are in the clear with any bacterias, fin rot or anything else that rears its head....................

So salt is just used for medicinal purposes.

Good bacteria sets up in the filter media not in the filter mechanics?

Yes, beneficial bacteria colonize filter media, such as foam, floss, poly fiber, biomax or other bio media, etc. The substrate has a certain amount of beneficial bacteria, a small amount as well on ornaments, fake plants, and other surfaces, but the vast majority of your bacteria will be found in the filter media, but mechanics themselves would hold very minor amounts.

Why change out the carbon after 4 weeks?

Activated carbon's main purpose is to remove odors, water discoloration, and water impurities. It's very important to use fresh activated carbon after a treatment of medication has been done to a fish tank as well as a partial water change, to remove the medications from the tank after the treatment is over. Some people prefer not to use activated carbon unless situations occur where we need to, others prefer to use it all of the time. The pores of the carbon fill up and the carbon becomes exhausted over a period of time and is no longer useful. This is why it needs to be changed out every 3 to 4 weeks if it is used.

If I am using prime weekly do I even need carbon?

Prime and activated carbon have very different uses. Carbon I've described above, but Prime removes Chlorine, Chloramine, and heavy metal, detoxifies ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Activated carbon has no effect on these things, except for removing the odor and taste of Chlorine? hahaha, but that would take quite a while to do even, given the small amount of carbon that is used. Prime works almost instantaneously.

I thought heat was good to get rid of bacteria, I was told to raise the temp when I had ICH which is a bacteria infection????

SO Many questions.................

Ich is actually a very small parasite. Fin rot should be looked at a symptom (I'm going to correct myself here a little bit) it CAN be caused by bacterial or fungal infections that eats away at the fins. The vast majority of Fin rot is caused by inadequate water quality, and can be corrected and healed by improving the water quality. Fin rot rarely needs antibiotics or other medication to make it go away, and can be prevented by keeping water quality in top notch shape.

Questions are always good. Ask us as many as you wish. If you don't understand something we have said, don't hesitate to ask for clarification.

To get a variety of opinions for stocking help, start a new thread under the stocking section of the forum. It will draw the attention of people with particular interest in stocking tanks so I'm sure you will receive plenty of help with it there.
 
Tuufy
  • Thread Starter
  • #12
photos of fin rot

I did the best I could with my camera phone..............

So I did a 20% water change yesterday, should I keep doing water changes to get rid of the salt as soon as possible?...........Each time I do a water change you want me to treat the whole tank size with prime and also stress coat for the whole tank (40 gals) or just for the amount of water I am changing out.


When doing a weekly water change I would treat the whole tank.

I will test the water gain later to see if there is anything reading on my apI test kit the temp is currently 82' am dropping it down slowly so as not to shock the fish down to about 78' right?

SO recap of questions

Daily water change til all salt is gone?

Treat whole tank size with prime and stress coat each time?

Drop temp down to 78' slowly?

What do you think of the photos.............

How do you get rid of the parasite?
 

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toosie
  • #13
If you did a 2 week heat treatment on the fish, and you no longer see tiny white spots on them anywhere, you have done all you need to do to treat the fish for the ICH parasite. I'll give you a link that will explain about the life cycle of this parasite.

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/curing-ich-naturally.105665/

Don't worry about doing water changes to remove the salt, just don't add any more. DO continue to do daily water changes, (I'd actually recommend 50% daily) to combat the fin rot by supplying them with a better overall water quality. You can go back to weekly water changes, (again preferably 30% to 50%) when the fin rot has healed. The larger weekly water changes will help to keep the water good, and help to prevent this from happening again.

Unless you are treating the tank to protect the fish from ammonia, nitrite, or very high levels of nitrates, you only need to use enough Prime to treat the amount of water you are replacing to protect the fish from chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals. If at anytime you do have levels of ammonia or nitrites or high levels of nitrates, then treat the total volume of tank water with each water change.

The Stress Coat, if you have already recently added enough to treat the entire tank, I would just use enough to treat the amount of new water with each water change.

Yes, slowly to 78F should be fine.

The pics, I couldn't get to expand large enough to see the fin rot. They look to be very nice pics though.
 
Tuufy
  • Thread Starter
  • #14
The pics, I couldn't get to expand large enough to see the fin rot. They look to be very nice pics though.

I can re email them to myself from my phone in a bigger format than I did maybr that would help, no wait I found my camera a while ago, I am so used to not having it ( lost for a year ....long story) I will take pics with them!!!
 
Tuufy
  • Thread Starter
  • #15
again

Sorry meant to get on here but busy busy busy, new job, 9 yr old bday and xmas all in the same week, etc etc etc, anyway, all fish are still with me, glofish that looks bloated but isnt, has now been renamed Fatty Arbuckle.

Both gouramis, that have fin rot are doing well but the fin rot just doesn't seem to have improved, got camera in front of me to try and do those photos I said I would post..................................back in a bit.

Oh here is a piccy of both fish and one of the mollies whizzed into the shot, this was one out of 15 shots before I got even one fish at a side view...................any ideas as to what else I can do, using stress coat, changing water more often with 30% change, reduced to temp to 74'


any ideas????
 

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toosie
  • #16
Does the fin rot seem to be getting any worse?

You could try soaking their food in a few drops of garlic juice for a few minutes before feeding them. Garlic will help boost their immune system, and also has mild anitbiotic properties that may help them heal faster.
 
Tuufy
  • Thread Starter
  • #17
The gourami that you see best in the picture his fin rot does seem to have got a little worse, a slow creep, not that I know how fast it should go .............

I will try the garlic juice thing.

any other ideas? is there anything other than fin rot that this could be?
 
Jaysee
  • #18
I wouldn't be surprised if the fish is being bullied by the other DG.
 
soltarianknight
  • #19
Those look like nips, not rot. imo. Those two guys really don't need to be togather lol. Male dwarf gourami can be agressive(ok murderous) with eachother at times. I would reccomend rehoming one of them. Also, No Bettafix, melafix or primafix. All 3 have a oil in them that coats the fishes labrynth organ, causing respitory damage. In reality betta fix shouldnt even be used on bettas.
 
Tuufy
  • Thread Starter
  • #20
hmmmm the store said they were ok in 2s or 3s, I haven't seen any evidence of them picking on each other, or the other fish for that matter.

So what happens if I can't find another home, I don't know anyone else who keeps fish????
 
soltarianknight
  • #21
return one? the store =crud. Lesson, don't take cruds advice. DG are not ok in groups unless your pulling a harem, but 2 males are a big nono. They are closly related to bettas, you are correct and just like bettas males don't like eachother..at all. I'm not trying to sound mean at all but the store doesn't seem to know what their talking about(most don't Tbh). One of the reasons I don't think you have fin rot is that the fins just have small bits missing, not a straight edge decintigration. Do you have any sharp decor?
 
Jaysee
  • #22
Not only do males fight with each other, but they fight with females too.
 
soltarianknight
  • #23
now, so I don't get called out on it, some times you can make it work. You need bit of experince and the ability to read their body language(by the way, they look look like their swimming parallel in that one pic, that's a territorial behaviour). I have done this in my brothers 55gal tank. There was still the weaker male and he ended up jumping tank so long term resualts could not be gathered(it lasted 6 months). However, it still looks like nips anyone else think that?
 
toosie
  • #24
Yes I do agree that it is likely there is some type of nipping going on. The missing sections aren't a typical sign of fin rot. Fin rot usually appears more like fraying, splitting and the fin usually has a white edge where the fin is being eaten away. This is more like missing pieces.

Tuffy, if you would like to keep them both, you could install a tank divider and keep once on each side. Alternately, there is a really good possibility the store will take one back as a donation to their cause, or they may offer you store credit, or a tetra or danio to go with the fish you currently have.
 
Jaysee
  • #25
Yes, I gently eluded to it
 
soltarianknight
  • #26
Jaysee
  • #27
soltarianknight
  • #28
You don't have to imagine. post #24

That awkaward moment when you relize you were completley off course in thinking. Gosh I'm getting slow XD. I like the idea of dividing the tank honestly. Dividers are cheap and easy to find/make and that way both boys would have their own areas with no nipping.
 
Werm
  • #29
Parasites temp up. Bacteria temp down. Fungus bung/us?
 
Tuufy
  • Thread Starter
  • #30
I will try talking to the store as I have bought most of my fish from there, so feel confident they will do something for me...........................and as for me lesson learned!!!!!

They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks but that isn't really true either!!!!

Thanks for the info...............

I am also gonna post on facebook to see if anyone on there knows of someone who has fish..................
 

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