Fin rot getting out of control!

Ullooo. :'(

My male crowntail is really not doing well. He used to have this brown kind of finrot, which I've treated with antibiotics. All the brown stuff is gone, but now he's loosing huge chunks off his tail. I was hoping he was just loosing the rotten stuff, and it would grow again, but it just seems to be falling off him soooo fast. He's lost most of his tail now. :'(

I was betta browsing and saw a picture of a fish that looks exactly like him, only healthy, and it really broke my heart.

I give him vitamins daily in liquid form and in gel form, his tank is pristine, parameters = a'nia 0 n'ite 0 n'ate 10. He has no substrate now (well, some pebbles, not even a full layer). I just don't know what else to do!

Heeeelp.

 

Have you started medicating him? Maybe you should medicate him if you haven't already. Do you have some trisulpha? Natalie

 

Thanks, Natalie. I really needed the presence of someone who'd understand. Thanks a lot for the heads up. Am quite down about his state.

Did forget to mention the obvious in the post? No, no, it's there. Basically yes, I have medicated him, but impossible to find trisulfa, or anything that remotely contains sulfa in its ingredients. But my meds seem to have worked against whatever he had (brown stuff), but I wonder if he has 2 things, or whether it's actually good that he has bits falling off him (i..e only the bad bits fall off, and will grow back again?). It's just that it's falling at such a scary speed.

 

What are you medicating him with, just curious? Well hopefully it just means that the med is killing it off and it will start to grow back gradually. I wish you the best of luck. Fin rot is so hard especially when it get's bad. How long has he been on the med for? It'll take a long time for it to grow back if a lot has fallen off, so be patient with it. Natalie

 

LA I find this paraguard has helped Flame touch wood. Want me to send you some?

 

Thanks, Natalie. I've been medicating him with Tetra Baktopur, which basically has a lot of meth blue.

I've been medicating him for the last 2 weeks or so.

Gawd I hope you're right about it just taking a long time to grow back. It's just that there's more bits falling off.

What are you medicating him with, just curious? Well hopefully it just means that the med is killing it off and it will start to grow back gradually. I wish you the best of luck. Fin rot is so hard especially when it get's bad. How long has he been on the med for? It'll take a long time for it to grow back if a lot has fallen off, so be patient with it. Natalie

 

Rocky had the same thing happen to him. I thought he was on the mend and then woke up to find more than half his tail gone! I continued the meds and he started growing back his tail. He's got quite a lot of healthy regrowth now although it's still mostly white but starting to turn red.
Keep medicating and doing water changes.
Maybe someone in the on this board could send you some Triple Sulfa? I'm not sure how it works with customs for sending meds but maybe you could find out and if it's possible, just send the money for the meds and postage.

 

That is so good to hear, Phloxface (that yours had the same thing and is now on the mend).

I've been doing a lot of reading and have decided to stop medicating for a week. Am at home now, so daily water changes and a pristine tank. He's now in this 30L (6G) with hardly any pebbles as substrate, so easy to clean. I've removed anything that could remotely hurt him from the tank. But I think the guy needs a break from the meds. He's been on for 3 weeks now.

My big question is: is the tissue falling off actually a good sign or a bad one?

I am quite sure that customs would not appreciate meds being sent to my house. Companies are not allowed to do it, even the ones who normally do ship stuff abroad from the US. But I appreciate your racking your brains for me. It means a lot.

 

maybe we could ship you an air pump.. oops, how'd that box of triple sulfa get in there? :;a :;a

 

:-\

Don't know what to do, guys. Am thinking of not medicating him at all for a week, to give the little guy a break. That and daily water changes/vitamins.

 

If you feel he needs a break from meds then go ahead and try it. Sometimes just clean water and vitamins will do the trick. Maybe give him extra vitamins then you usually give him a day. It won't hurt him and it may make his body stronger to fight it off. As soon as you see it getting worse off though I'd start medicating him again. I really hope he get's over it soon for you. Natalie

 

If a medication isn't working you should try another. Not every med will work for finrot because finrot can be caused by many different types of bacteria.
If you can't find the med you need at your lfs, see if there is an online store in Europe that you can order from.
Meth blue isn't that strong and is used mostly as a preventative. My Petsmart puts it in all the cups of the newly arrived Bettas to help prevent finrot caused by the stress of shipping.

 

Also, with the switching meds thing, there are bacteria that have become resistant to antibiotics. It's possible that the meds you used cleared the finrot most of the way, but enough of the bacteria survived that they developed a resistance and came back with a vengeance. This is the biggest reason to keep using meds that are working until the infection is entirely gone.

 

didn't you find a source for seachem products?

 

Thanks, Natalie. Yeah, that's my plan. Pristine clean water, loads of vitamins, and a break from meds. As soon as I see something dodgy again, I'll medicate again.

If you feel he needs a break from meds then go ahead and try it. Sometimes just clean water and vitamins will do the trick. Maybe give him extra vitamins then you usually give him a day. It won't hurt him and it may make his body stronger to fight it off. As soon as you see it getting worse off though I'd start medicating him again. I really hope he get's over it soon for you. Natalie

No, unfortunately, I found a source of some Seachem products, but not .... Prime. Argh! They used to sell it and now they don't. I've got 3 motnhs' worth stashed up, so not urgent, but not nice.

didn't you find a source for seachem products?

Well that's what I did: I kept using the meds for 2 weeks after the last of the brown stuff was gone, and I have no idea why he's loosing his fins: whether it's the rotten tissue detaching itself, or whether it's another kind of finrot (in which case these meds obviously dont' do anything for it) or whether it's another symptom of the same finrot, in which case I need to find meds that work.

Also, with the switching meds thing, there are bacteria that have become resistant to antibiotics. It's possible that the meds you used cleared the finrot most of the way, but enough of the bacteria survived that they developed a resistance and came back with a vengeance. This is the biggest reason to keep using meds that are working until the infection is entirely gone.

 

I believe they have a product or 2 for finrot including kanaplex.. a very strong med for finrot which could be done at low doses even. ???

 

Oh really?! That's so cool. Kanaplex is what I bought yesterday on-line. Who knows when it will get delivered, but that's great news. Have you ever used it?

 

I would be careful using it. It is a VERY strong med and can damage the kidney. I used it on Lava when he was suffering from dropsy.

 

But does it cure dropsy AND finrot? I'd need to check my notes again, but indeed I seem to remember that it was a bit of a broadspectrum one.

My pH is 8.0 as well, so I think I'll drastically underdose. What do you think?

Mind, it's not there yet...

 

yea, it is a super-strong med and definitely one to use with caution. usually, it's a med used in desparation when all else fail.

 

I think we unfortuntely fit that description (my betta and me)

 

Finrot isn't a life-threatening situation until it reaches the body. I would not risk using a drug like Kanaplex for finrot. It will cure the finrot and a few weeks later he could die of kidney failure. For diseases like dropsy and TB you have nothing to lose and need something strong but it's not worth the risk for finrot.
If I were you I'd still try to find some way of getting some Triple Sulfa or something else. You are in the Netherlands I believe? Here's a link on Seachem's site to dealers online in your area that you can order from.
You can order from them a product called "Sulfathiazole" which is one of the Sulfas, or also, "NeoPlex" or "Polyguard" all of which are safer than Kanaplex.
I have the Kanaplex left over from Lava and will only use it in cases of dropsy.

 

Oh thanks so much for the research on Netherlands, Phloxface.

I was lucky enough to find an on-line supplier for Sulfathiazole and Polyguard. Ordered it yesterday. Hopefully it won't take long to arrive. So that's unconfusing me about the choice fo make once my meds do get here. Until then, my guy gets a break.

I have looked on a lot of meds here and none contain a single type of sulfa, nevermind 3. Ah, if only I could get a hold of Trisulfa here in Europe.

 

cool, i'm glad there are alternatives to kanaplex for you. it's just so strong. :-\ best of luck with your little guy.

 

thanks, Dave. I am really worried, you know. The last couple of his rays is going, and then it's only the webbing, and I am soooo worried it starts attacking the body then. I really hope that the package arrives soon.

 

:-\ I wish we could send you some meds, but hopefully the new meds will have him feeling better and regrowing fins soon.

 

I would try the Sulfathiazole first. It is the main drug in Triple Sulfa and the one sulfa in the medicated food I was using. I really think that's the one that seems to help the most.

 

I am so worried. The meds are not here. No idea when they will be. Could take a week or two, even.

Meanwhile, he's only got less than 1 mm left on his dorsal fin. This is so approaching his body.

I am looking at euthanasia methods now, to be prepared. Here being The Netherlands and therefore absolutely impossible to find a half-decent product > :'( , do you think I can home-make my clove oil? I have the cloves at home as cooking ingredients. Could I simply leave them to soak in a solution of water, and gradually add that water to his water changes?

This is him when I first got him, and this is him yesterday. This morning, he's lost more of his ventral fins. You can nearly only see the fish' body now, with no fins.

:'( :'( :'(

 

Wow! That is a lot of fin to lose! It's not quite reached his body yet so it's not causing him pain. I hope your meds arrive soon. Do you have any idea how long it will be to get them?
If it starts getting worse and your other meds have not arrived I'd try the kanaplex, at a slightly lower dose than it states on the bottle. Maybe about 70% of the regular dose. If you will be getting the other meds soon start him on the Sulfathiazole right away.

P.S. I just noticed your message above... PLEASE do not euthanize him yet. He is not suffering. If you think it will take that long for the meds to arrive use the Kanaplex. (you already have that one I think?)

You could also go to a vet and explain your problem and see about getting a prescription for some sulfa meds. Often the same drugs used on dogs and cats can be used. The vet will know what dosages. Just grind up the pill and put in the tank.

Find out if there are any pet stores nearby (in the next town) that may have better meds and drive there.

In the meantime, why not continue treating with the meds you were using. It might help keep it from getting worse.
What is your PH level? If it is too high or too low it could be making him worse. You could try slowly mixing bottled spring water into his water changes to bring the PH to a better level. Anything over 7.8 or below 6.5 and it could become hard to live in for a Betta.

 

Oh hun, I had no idea he is so bad!! My good lfs where we got Flame said they use tonic aquarium salts if in doubt of a med with labyrinth fish until they can get exactly what they need. 50% water changes, quatre teaspoon salt and warmer temp. recon they have had success, 50p for salt! I trust them more the more I learn too. They are real fish lovers. Just passing on my info.

Don't give up hope yet! I WISH I could help! sending him my love X

 

Yeah, that's an awful lot of fin to loose.

Thanks a lot for helping clarifying my thoughts/priorities. There are other things to try yet, you're right.

I won't euthanaze him yet, only when it does reach the body. But I want to be prepared. Have any of you made your own clove oil? do you know the required concentrations? Do we need olive oil? How much water? I heard it needed to be boiled. If so, for how long? I also heard it had to sit for a week. All your thoughts appreciated on this one.

I don't have either Kanaplex, nor Sulfathiazole. All I've got is Jungle Binox and Sera Baktopur.

My pH is 8.0. I'll check how much the cheapest mineral water is, and I'll test its pH. But I can't afford 10L of the stuff a day.

I don't have access to a vet that won't charge me through the teeth for this.

I've been to every pet store in the area and they have nothing. I feel I live in the Jungle. I am getting really frustrated with Holland's lack of choice, in everything. It's not just fish meds.

Wow! That is a lot of fin to lose! It's not quite reached his body yet so it's not causing him pain. I hope your meds arrive soon. Do you have any idea how long it will be to get them?
If it starts getting worse and your other meds have not arrived I'd try the kanaplex, at a slightly lower dose than it states on the bottle. Maybe about 70% of the regular dose. If you will be getting the other meds soon start him on the Sulfathiazole right away.

P.S. I just noticed your message above... PLEASE do not euthanize him yet. He is not suffering. If you think it will take that long for the meds to arrive use the Kanaplex. (you already have that one I think?)

You could also go to a vet and explain your problem and see about getting a prescription for some sulfa meds. Often the same drugs used on dogs and cats can be used. The vet will know what dosages. Just grind up the pill and put in the tank.

Find out if there are any pet stores nearby (in the next town) that may have better meds and drive there.

In the meantime, why not continue treating with the meds you were using. It might help keep it from getting worse.
What is your PH level? If it is too high or too low it could be making him worse. You could try slowly mixing bottled spring water into his water changes to bring the PH to a better level. Anything over 7.8 or below 6.5 and it could become hard to live in for a Betta.

Wow! That is a lot of fin to lose! It's not quite reached his body yet so it's not causing him pain. I hope your meds arrive soon. Do you have any idea how long it will be to get them?
If it starts getting worse and your other meds have not arrived I'd try the kanaplex, at a slightly lower dose than it states on the bottle. Maybe about 70% of the regular dose. If you will be getting the other meds soon start him on the Sulfathiazole right away.

P.S. I just noticed your message above... PLEASE do not euthanize him yet. He is not suffering. If you think it will take that long for the meds to arrive use the Kanaplex. (you already have that one I think?)

You could also go to a vet and explain your problem and see about getting a prescription for some sulfa meds. Often the same drugs used on dogs and cats can be used. The vet will know what dosages. Just grind up the pill and put in the tank.

Find out if there are any pet stores nearby (in the next town) that may have better meds and drive there.

In the meantime, why not continue treating with the meds you were using. It might help keep it from getting worse.
What is your PH level? If it is too high or too low it could be making him worse. You could try slowly mixing bottled spring water into his water changes to bring the PH to a better level. Anything over 7.8 or below 6.5 and it could become hard to live in for a Betta.

OK, good one about the tonic salts. Have you ever used Epsom salt and do you know anything about it? I have read it in passing a lot, but I do not know how to give a betta a concentrated bath of epsom salts. I don't even know what the difference is between that and normal aquarium salt and rock salt and sea salt? Any thoughts welcome.

Oh hun, I had no idea he is so bad!! My good lfs where we got Flame said they use tonic aquarium salts if in doubt of a med with labyrinth fish until they can get exactly what they need. 50% water changes, quatre teaspoon salt and warmer temp. recon they have had success, 50p for salt! I trust them more the more I learn too. They are real fish lovers. Just passing on my info.

Don't give up hope yet! I WISH I could help! sending him my love X

 

I don't babe but I'll def try to find out.

I know how you feel about being out in the wilderness. We here in europe DO NOT have the same care system set up for aquatics! Indeed, my knowledge of keeping rabbits in the house came from the US. Monty Roberts for horses!! US seems way ahead of europe re pets!!

i'll search uk re epsom salts, I'll do my best sweetheart!

 

Epsom salts won't help for finrot. It may do more harm than good. It is used for constipation and dropsy. Regular aquarium salt may help a little by causing him to form a better slime coat.
If you have the Jungle Binox you should use that. I've heard it's pretty good. Don't euthanize him unless he is near death. Even if the finrot reaches his body he can still be saved with meds. Don't euthanize him at all unless you know for sure what you are doing. It would be terrible to give him something that doesn't kill him but only makes him suffer more. Right now I wouldn't even be thinking of that and just concentrate on medicating him.

 

Ok, so I found the section on using peat moss to change pH. This originally came up in a different thread, but I'm posting it here because it's pertinent to this conversation.
The tannins in peat moss bind to calcium and magnesium, removing them from the water. This is the only way to lower water pH (removing stuff from the water, not using peat moss) safely. Otherwise, you're creating a salty, acidic water, otherwise known as pickling brine.





One of these is a peat mixture made for aquariums, the other is a media bag for said mixture. Especially with a sick fish, you should start out small, working your way up (down) to the pH you're looking for. Also, don't forget that using this means you'll need to watch pH more closely, and change the peat out when it stops working.
Once again, hope everything goes well with your fish.

 

LA i'm wI Phlox, keep him with us!! My male guppy with fin rot swam like a looney with his buddies for 6/7 weeks after it hit his body. I used meds in tank and I can say he was a blast until his last day, lay down etc! Don't give up!!!!

 

Ohhhh. I am so sorry that your beautiful crown tail is in such sad shape. When my Barney had a bad case of finrot, I stopped meds for a while to give him a break. I also gave him lots of VitaChem and very clean water. I never did have to start back up with the meds. I sure hope your guy gets better soon. By the way, he looks just like my Barney. It is so heart breaking to see them that ill. You have gotten some excellent advice from the wonderful fish lovers on here. Like Tazmiche says, Don't give up. Where there is life, there is hope. I am cheering you on in your battle against the dreaded finrot.

CherryRose l

 

Thanks so much for the pm on salt, Michelle.

It's really nice to know that you're all kind of going through this with me, if only in thought.

I don't babe but I'll def try to find out.

I know how you feel about being out in the wilderness. We here in europe DO NOT have the same care system set up for aquatics! Indeed, my knowledge of keeping rabbits in the house came from the US. Monty Roberts for horses!! US seems way ahead of europe re pets!!

i'll search uk re epsom salts, I'll do my best sweetheart!

OK, thanks so much, Sidarksol. I get the peat thing method now, thanks to your link. So I've got the peat a while ago, and I have the bags already. I'll test it out in a spare tank that I have, to make sure there are no wild variations in pH.

Ok, so I found the section on using peat moss to change pH. This originally came up in a different thread, but I'm posting it here because it's pertinent to this conversation.
The tannins in peat moss bind to calcium and magnesium, removing them from the water. This is the only way to lower water pH (removing stuff from the water, not using peat moss) safely. Otherwise, you're creating a salty, acidic water, otherwise known as pickling brine.





One of these is a peat mixture made for aquariums, the other is a media bag for said mixture. Especially with a sick fish, you should start out small, working your way up (down) to the pH you're looking for. Also, don't forget that using this means you'll need to watch pH more closely, and change the peat out when it stops working.
Once again, hope everything goes well with your fish.

I think that I'll consider putting him down when he is starting to add abnormal. I don't want to drag him alive when he doesn't really want to.

LA i'm wI Phlox, keep him with us!! My male guppy with fin rot swam like a looney with his buddies for 6/7 weeks after it hit his body. I used meds in tank and I can say he was a blast until his last day, lay down etc! Don't give up!!!!

Thanks, CherryRose. It really broke my heart to see the old picture of him and him looking so ragged now.

So, waiting for the new meds to arrive, am treating him with Jungle Binox. The break in meds seemed to not bring about any improvements.

Unfortunately, he's already in pristine water, with daily 50% water changes, with liquid + gel vitamins. Just don't know what else to do.

Ohhhh. I am so sorry that your beautiful crown tail is in such sad shape. When my Barney had a bad case of finrot, I stopped meds for a while to give him a break. I also gave him lots of VitaChem and very clean water. I never did have to start back up with the meds. I sure hope your guy gets better soon. By the way, he looks just like my Barney. It is so heart breaking to see them that ill. You have gotten some excellent advice from the wonderful fish lovers on here. Like Tazmiche says, Don't give up. Where there is life, there is hope. I am cheering you on in your battle against the dreaded finrot.

CherryRose l

 

:'( you certainly have our best wishes for a turn-around there!

 

Guys, you've been so great. Look at the number of replies to this post. Thanks so much for the support.

No news of my boy. His state is pretty much stationary, except for the brown raggedness seems to be returning. Argh!

 

I'm so sorry Armadillo. He looks so much like my RJ. Same colors and patterns too. It's amazing. Hopefully he won't get any worse and you will receive these meds soon so you can help him. I'm and well as everyone are praying for you. Natalie

 

Armadillo, I am so sorry that this seems out of control. Please don't give up.....darkest before the storm and all that, you know.. Tail rot is like the plague, I hate it, hate it, hate. Just out of the blue it appears. I hope your meds arrive soon, in the meantime, keep trying, anything, miracles can happen. We all are here for you, sending prayers and good wishes your way.

Val

 

how is he today? any meds yet? how about the drs ordering?

 

Thanks very much for your kind words, guys. I know you know how it feels to have a sick fish and to feel powerless.

Here's the status:
- The Drs (F&S) do ship to Europe, but for the modic sum of .... over 100 dollars in shipping fees alone. I had to say no.
- No news of the Seachem meds I'd ordered from a Dutch website, despite my chasing. I estimate it will be here in a week, or not at all.
- I've switched off the filter after reading a link Allie had sent on bettas. At this stage, it can't hurt. The ideas is to reduce the current which I didn't think was that bit but hey, like you said, I'll try anything now. There is still a bubbler in the middle, so enough water agitation. Also, doing 50% PWC every day, vacuum every other day, and substrate is pristine.
- Am giving him a week off the meds as the poor guy's been medicated since I dont' know how long.
- Am giving him liquid vitamins in the water + trying to get him to like garlic (which he still doesn't) + the little sod has decided he no longer liked the expensive vitamin gel, so he keeps making me waste it by being aloof.
- He's behaving fine. Calm, inquisitive, swimming normally.

At this stage, now that all his rays are gone, it doesn't look so miserable anymore. He just looks like a female. The ventral and dorsal fins don't seem to have become any worse, nor have they gotten any better. There does seem to be this worrying brown fuzzy stuff on the edges, which is what had started it all.

I can only keep up with the drastic water changes/vitamins and hope my meds eventually arrive.

 

I wouldn't let up on the meds. You say you have Binox. You should use that. If he is off meds completely and not well yet the bacteria can multiply and become more resistant to the meds. Most fish meds have no side effects on the fish so he's not feeling any stress from being medicated.

 

:'( that stinks the meds aren't there yet.. wish we could send you some. hope they get there & he bounces back.

 

Thanks, Phloxface. Am mulling this over. I totally understand your point, but he appears to have side effects, in the sense since I've let off the meds, he's started to swim around more again. But the week off meds is over and time to start again.

I wouldn't let up on the meds. You say you have Binox. You should use that. If he is off meds completely and not well yet the bacteria can multiply and become more resistant to the meds. Most fish meds have no side effects on the fish so he's not feeling any stress from being medicated.

 

Thanks, Phloxface. Am mulling this over. I totally understand your point, but he appears to have side effects, in the sense since I've let off the meds, he's started to swim around more again. But the week off meds is over and time to start again.

I wouldn't let up on the meds. You say you have Binox. You should use that. If he is off meds completely and not well yet the bacteria can multiply and become more resistant to the meds. Most fish meds have no side effects on the fish so he's not feeling any stress from being medicated.

I've noticed that a lot of the meds have a 'sedating' kind of effect on the bettas.. maybe it's their natural need for rest, but it really seems to go along with when we start and stop meds.

 

My 6.6 gal just recycled and my Betta Fin Rot is getting worst. The plan was to do daily water changes but then I check this morning and the rot has made the fin damge bigger. Is there any thing else I can do. To make things worse I'm going on vacation for 4 days and leaving Sat. I might be able to ge a niece to help with some water changes but I'll have to teach her everything and that's alittle scary. I was thinking of moving him in a non cycled 1 gal for cleaner water and may be easier for her to deal with. I'm aT the store right now and bought stress coat and going to buy fish protector. I'm even thinking of taking him with me but that seems A little crazy. Please help

 

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariummagazine/feb08/fish-finrot.htm
I've never used any type of medication apart from melafix to deal with fins so I can't comment on the effectiveness of the antibiotics listed on that link, but it gives you an idea of what to work with. Just remember that many different kind of antibiotics will also kill the beneficial bacteria in your tank so its best to treat in a separate tank or get a treatment that doesn't mess with the BB. Best of luck!

And as a side note, DO NOT USE Melafix on bettas or any other labyrinth organ fish, it can hurt/kill them.

 

when I had to deal with cousins coral blue gourami (mine now) I used Bettafix. I know it sounds a bit weird but it is all he had, turns out it worked like a charm. It should work for your Betta, and it also says that it heals skin damages, although I haven't needed it for that.