Fin Rot But Not?!

Hello! I'm new to the site, and I've come for a reason that worries me. (I'm also not sure if I posted this in the right place, if not, please direct me!)

My betta Blu is a very happy-go-lucky little guy who likes to play. His behavior has not changed a bit, but he has contracted some infection in his fins.
It looks like fin rot, but it's on the base of his fins, right next to his body, instead of the edges. It's progressing impossibly rapidly, within today it jumped from a small hole on his top fin, to a giant one and it spread to his back fin. There are also what appears to be a red sore of some sort on one side of his face. Some areas are turning clear, which seems certainly bad!
Please help, I've never encountered this before.

I've begun API Fin&Body Cure treatment earlier today. Does anyone have experience with it? It is a 250mg dose of Doxycycline Hyclate.

Background and additional info:
- Blu is in a divided ten gallon with another betta named Spooky, and on Blu's side there are three harlequin raspbora's
- Blu is a rosetail
- Blu has had normal fin rot prior, and the day before I discovered his current ailment he appeared to have beaten it
- Spooky was dealing with what appeared to be a fungal infection a few days ago and appeared to beat it after an emergency water change.
- I need to run another check, but last week the water was at:
Ph: 7.8ish
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 10ppm
- Tank is heated
- Each side is treated as it's own five gallon. Both sides are filtered and heated with their own heaters and filters.
- I've owned a few betta's before and have encountered a few diseases, but I've never seen this.

Here are photo's:






Even as I write this he is still happily fluttering about next to me in his tank, wanting attention. Please help!

 

That is odd. Any scratchy ornaments in the tank his fins could get caught on? Or something he might have gotten stuck inside of?

 

That is odd. Any scratchy ornaments in the tank his fins could get caught on? Or something he might have gotten stuck inside of?

Possibly the dragon skull? I'm pretty careful with him, especially so after an incident with him getting stuck in an ornament a few weeks ago. All his decorations are silk, smooth and with large holes if any. The dragon skull is a little bumpy though.

He doesn't go in the skull much however and he's had it for awhile without injuries like this. I'm going to take it out as a precaution anyway.

 

Maybe being stuck a few weeks ago resulted in an infection? I’ve painted hydrogen peroxide on fins with a paintbrush before with success. Someone else can give better advice about antibiotic medication. Also - welcome to the forum!

 

Maybe being stuck a few weeks ago resulted in an infection? I’ve painted hydrogen peroxide on fins with a paintbrush before with success. Someone else can give better advice about antibiotic medication. Also - welcome to the forum!

I've heard about painting hydrogen peroxide on fins. How does that work?

And thank you!

Does anyone out there know enough about bacteria or something to do that could help?

 

I've heard about painting hydrogen peroxide on fins. How does that work?

And thank you!

Shallow bowl so head is still in water. Paint on hydrogen peroxide with a soft paint brush. Count to 20 and put back in water. But might be too stressful if already treating with antibiotics.

 

Shallow bowl so head is still in water. Paint on hydrogen peroxide with a soft paint brush. Count to 20 and put back in water. But might be too stressful if already treating with antibiotics.

Hmm, sounds like it could work. I'm going to leave it as an absolute last resort though.
The antibiotics seem to have halted whatever this is with only one dose. I'm hoping by completing the full dosage it should get rid of it entirely.

He's still all bouncy, curious and happy. As I write he and Spooky are flaring at each other. XD

I'll probably continue to update this thread as I go, in case anyone in the future runs into an issue like this.

Okay, back from my day and I'm noticing whatever this is, it's almost distorting the fins and his eyes appear to be bulging a little. Personality is still the same, but his fins are a mess.
I'll be getting Spring water in a few hours to do a water change with.

 

Look up Columnare disease.

 

Look up Columnare disease.

Did you mean columnaris? This is not columnaris, the fish has none of the symptoms. It is a very common disease to keep in mind though.
Honestly, I'm not sure about this OP. Very odd. Try a Methylene blue dip if possible, it will stain everything around, so lay don't a painters tarp or something, get a plastic shoebox and a cup. Make the dip in the shoeboz, (10 drops per 1/2 gallon for 30 minutes). Dip your fish in the dip and leave him, then rinse him off in the cup. Methylene blue will take care of most external fungal and bacterial infections.

 

I read that early symptoms of columnaris are often ragged fins. But I have no personal experience with it..

 

I read that early symptoms of columnaris are often ragged fins. But I have no personal experience with it..

Huh, never heard that tbh.
I've only dealt with it once, and it's really the fuzziness that gives it away. It's also such a fast killer that, no offense, OP's fish would probably already be dead... The fast strain kills in 12-48 hours, the slow strain kills in 3-5 days. Fuzziness on the back, sides, mouth, top of tail fin, base of dorsal, is generally going to end up being columnaris

 

Huh, never heard that tbh.
I've only dealt with it once, and it's really the fuzziness that gives it away. It's also such a fast killer that, no offense, OP's fish would probably already be dead... The fast strain kills in 12-48 hours, the slow strain kills in 3-5 days. Fuzziness on the back, sides, mouth, top of tail fin, base of dorsal, is generally going to end up being columnaris

I'm definitely feeling like it isn't columnaris. This seems more bacterial than fungal.
And yeah, Baby Blu here would be on to the next world if it was.

I was thinking about methylene blue but I've never tried it before so it makes me a little nervous.
I did buy some Paraguard and almond leaves that should arrive in the next two days. I'm hoping those will help.

Anyone have any opinions on aquarium salt for this case?

The API medicine I have seems to have halted the disease for right now. We're on the second dose right now.

 

I'm definitely feeling like it isn't columnaris. This seems more bacterial than fungal.
And yeah, Baby Blu here would be on to the next world if it was.

I was thinking about methylene blue but I've never tried it before so it makes me a little nervous.
I did buy some Paraguard and almond leaves that should arrive in the next two days. I'm hoping those will help.

Anyone have any opinions on aquarium salt for this case?

The API medicine I have seems to have halted the disease for right now. We're on the second dose right now.

Columnaris is actually bacterial, not fungal.
I entirely understand not using a medication you haven't used before. I've heard great things about Paraguard, and it seems to treat a lot of stuff. Fingers crossed that the current medication works!

 

Columnaris is actually bacterial, not fungal.
I entirely understand not using a medication you haven't used before. I've heard great things about Paraguard, and it seems to treat a lot of stuff. Fingers crossed that the current medication works!

Oh, I thought it was fungal. The growth's look like it.

I'll definitely keep it in mind. It we start losing large chunks of fin and it looks like nothing's working, I'll probably go for the methylene blue.

Ahhh, Amazon, why do you say it'll take two days then say it won't show up until Monday!! DX I need that Paraguard asap!

 

There are two forms or symptoms of Columnaris. One creates fuzzy lesions, one is smooth and creates lesions like saddleback. Usually it begins at the body of the dorsal fin and looks like fin rot. Best way to be sure is to look under a microscope. But who does that????

Your Betta's fins looks exactly like mine when he gets it. His fins fray from the dorsal outward, and eventually looks like strings on a string mop. It spreads to his other fins, and up to his body while he's being treated. It's a scary adventure. Usually his body near his dorsal fin looks like saddleback when it has come back. Keep your hands out of the water.

 

Update.

I'm stopping the API Medication because :
A) The water has gotten very dirty from it
B) I just finished skimming off a slime layer on top (This is even scarier since it concerns me that it would impact both bettas ability to breathe)
C) The water is a rosy-pink color? And very cloudy.
D) The disease seems to only have been slowed
E) Paraguard came in, and I'm switching over to that for treatment.

Blu is still happy and cheerful in nature, but I'm pretty sure he's going to lose his top fin and at least a portion of his back fin. The clearness has spread farther up his fin and there are now jagged holes. The body at the base of his top fin has developed a clear patch. This worries me.
There are no other symptoms. Beyond his fins, he seems to be a cheerful fish. Due to his flaring at Spooky I can check behind his gills and see nothing worrisome.

It's almost as if it's cutting off nutrient flow to the fins. There's no red, so no blood, it's just suddenly decaying.

Spooky continues to not show symptoms of anything suspicious. This leads me to venture against anything contagious.

I'm going to do a 50% water change to improve quality and then add Paraguard in about an hour or two. I also got filter refills (I have an Aquaclear filter that's meant for 20-50g) because I noticed my foam was in need of a change. Those aren't due till Monday though.

 

Your Betta's fins looks exactly like mine when he gets it. His fins fray from the dorsal outward, and eventually looks like strings on a string mop. It spreads to his other fins, and up to his body while he's being treated. It's a scary adventure. Usually his body near his dorsal fin looks like saddleback when it has come back. Keep your hands out of the water.

The reasons I'm not convinced it's columnaris is because it hasn't spread to any of the others, Blu remains quite perky and not lethargic, there isn't a saddleback (only a small clear patch near his top fin which I am keeping an eye on), nothing seems the matter with Blu's gills, and Blu is breathing fine. That red spot I had noted in my original post is no longer present as well.
If it were columnaris I would think at this point it would show itself a bit better. However, I am aware that the medication could have slowed it down, so we're getting a delayed reaction.

I'm not ruling columnaris out, (That clear patch worries me, and you're the only one who's ever had anything similar it seems) I just need more evidence for it first before I declare that this is what it is.

What I am thinking though based off what you said, is since you have had similar occurrences and treated it like columnaris and it worked to stop it, then this is probably some sort of gram-negative disease. Which is quite a broad term in regards to fish disease, but nonetheless, it's good to know your enemy and what medication might help.

 

Update.

I'm stopping the API Medication because :
A) The water has gotten very dirty from it
B) I just finished skimming off a slime layer on top (This is even scarier since it concerns me that it would impact both bettas ability to breathe)
C) The water is a rosy-pink color? And very cloudy.
D) The disease seems to only have been slowed
E) Paraguard came in, and I'm switching over to that for treatment.

Blu is still happy and cheerful in nature, but I'm pretty sure he's going to lose his top fin and at least a portion of his back fin. The clearness has spread farther up his fin and there are now jagged holes. The body at the base of his top fin has developed a clear patch. This worries me.
There are no other symptoms. Beyond his fins, he seems to be a cheerful fish. Due to his flaring at Spooky I can check behind his gills and see nothing worrisome.

It's almost as if it's cutting off nutrient flow to the fins. There's no red, so no blood, it's just suddenly decaying.

Spooky continues to not show symptoms of anything suspicious. This leads me to venture against anything contagious.

I'm going to do a 50% water change to improve quality and then add Paraguard in about an hour or two. I also got filter refills (I have an Aquaclear filter that's meant for 20-50g) because I noticed my foam was in need of a change. Those aren't due till Monday though.

Sounds like a solid plan, good luck. If possible, try running carbon for a few hours to remove the old med before adding the new one

 

Sounds like a solid plan, good luck. If possible, try running carbon for a few hours to remove the old med before adding the new one

Yeah, I threw the carbon in the second I got back.
Got the paraguard, gonna do the water change now.

I just want to say real quick as well, HOLY GUACAMOLE THESE INDIAN ALMOND LEAVES ARE HUGE!!

 

Update 2.

Water change is out of the way, tank looks way better and we've got Paraguard in the water.

Blu has been a little less perky later in the day. I think the water and medication change have stressed him.

I'm noticing swelling at the base of his topmost fin and what appears to be an injury of some sort at the split between his top and back fin.

I've also added the indian almond leaves after boiling, then soaking them with activated charcoal in a bag and rinsing them off.
(Fish were very confused and initially thought it was a huge piece of flake food)

Let's see how this goes.

 

Good luck! Boiling the leaves is a good idea, but putting them with activated carbon may remove all the tannins, which are very beneficial

 

Good luck! Boiling the leaves is a good idea, but putting them with activated carbon may remove all the tannins, which are very beneficial

Oh, shoot, I was just following the bags directions. It's to make sure there is no more incoming disease, which I seriously don't need right now.
I didn't leave them in too long though, so I think it'll be fine.

Update

Alrighty, all fishies are WAY more perky after the tank cleaning. There is still definitely something going on with Blu's fins as the base of the top fin seems inflamed, and the fin itself is starting to get ripped up. However the white and black areas have been reduced near overnight. His back fin is still of concern but it's looking better.
Right now I'm just watching the boys flare at each other and then go off and swim around. Blu likes the almond leaf, he enjoys laying on it which I'm taking as a positive sign!

Right now I'm going to wait and give the Paraguard a chance to kick in. We're not out of the woods yet, but the increased activity and reduction of the bad areas give me a bit of hope.

 

Update.

Okay, Whiteness in the fins is almost gone. ParaGuard definitely seems to have worked some magic.

Inflammation and those strange clear spots are near gone. There's still a small, fading infection at the base of his top fin, but at this point I think he'll recover from this.

 

Paraguard is powerful, isn't it. However, it has malachite green in it, and that is a known carcinogen. That's why I don't use it in my tanks. A Lot of fish medications over the counter (Non-prescription) have it in. Another reason to keep hands out of the tank.

Because of my fish getting this, whatever it is, I did a lot of reading the past month about columnare (that is the new name for Columnaris). The non-fuzzy one seems to not be contagious to other fish. They are different forms of bug. I could be wrong about contagion, but I think that's what I read. But I'm so happy to read your experience. I use methylene blue dip and baths for my betta. I have also had success with Triple Sulfur.

My betta is also blue. Your fish is so much like mine, that I thought it was him and asked myself, "Did I send a picture of him somewhere?" I'm pretty sure that the malachite green would cure him, it is used is many diseases, even by vets.

Please keep updating this post. I would really like to know how it goes, if he develops any other symptoms, and how he progresses toward health.

I'm so happy he is doing better!

Sometime before I treat with medications, when I see he is getting something (usually a spot, or a rip), I'll do religious water changes, and then add Stress Guard (He doesn't do well with aloe vera that is in the other ones). It helps coat the wounds and he will actually swim directly into the water where he can feel it medicating his fins, and hang out there. I know it must feel good. Like a Band-Aid. If it continues to grow, then after the water change, I'll use Methylene Blue either as a dip or a bath.

 

Columnaris is actually bacterial, not fungal.

It looks like there are 4 strains of columnaris as well!


Characterization of four Flavobacterium columnare (Flexibacter columnaris) strains isolated from tropical fish - ScienceDirect

 

This is one of the articles I recently read. Thank you so much for sharing it! Did you notice that there was (or is) vaccinations for this in salmons? I wish we could vaccinate our pets for this! Also, I'm a bit confused about causes -- I'm reading that being in 77 degree water helps the bacteria survive, and that colder was with nitrites also helps the bacteria survive. But it also says either here or elsewhere, that stagnant water, as well as sterile water, helps the bacteria survive. My tank was kept extremely clean, and had very low flow HOB filters. I think that created lower predatory-bacteria (those that kill the bacteria that causes Columnaris), and the low flow rate helped the disease bacteria survive. Am I reading this correctly?

 

This is one of the articles I recently read. Thank you so much for sharing it! Did you notice that there was (or is) vaccinations for this in salmons? I wish we could vaccinate our pets for this! Also, I'm a bit confused about causes -- I'm reading that being in 77 degree water helps the bacteria survive, and that colder was with nitrites also helps the bacteria survive. But it also says either here or elsewhere, that stagnant water, as well as sterile water, helps the bacteria survive. My tank was kept extremely clean, and had very low flow HOB filters. I think that created lower predatory-bacteria (those that kill the bacteria that causes Columnaris), and the low flow rate helped the disease bacteria survive. Am I reading this correctly?

From my own research, I've read it's common in 'set-up' tanks because it's an aerobic bacteria. So, good water is good grounds for it! Yikes.

And ha ha, that's interesting that your fish looks a lot like mine.

 

Update.

How to have a panic attack as a betta keeper.

I was out and about and realized I forgot something so I had to head back to my dorm.

And found that Blu was on Spooky's side of the tank.

They were not actively fighting when I found them, but both have light injuries (nothing fatal thankfully). Spooky has a patch of scales missing on his head (More worried about him right now actually. Poor baby is traumatized.) and Blu had his top fin ripped up further! Augh!
Blu is now in a cup in the tank since he keeps hanging near the divider and stressing Spooky out worse, and to keep him from trying anything again.

As for the medicine side of things I'm happy to report that Blu no longer has those strange white spots, though that clear spot on his body remains. Medication will definitely continue, especially in light of recent events. His top fin is at even higher risk for fin rot now (*Bashes head on desk*). I'll be posting another forum asking if anyone has opinions on dividers.

 

I'm glad he's doing better, but yikes! Glad they're both ok!

 

Update. I believe this'll be the final one.

We are way better! Just getting his fins to regrow now, but I think it's safe to say Blu has beat the infection!






Thank you to everyone who commented and gave support and advice! ^_^

 

Wow! Is that really the same fish!! That's amazing.

 

Wow! Is that really the same fish!! That's amazing.

Crazy right? Didn't even lose as much of the top fin as I thought we would.