Filtration For A 250 Gallon Discus Tank

Hi, guys long time since my last post,

Am planning my third tank, which is official going to my first discus tank,since I have read a lot about discus requiring a very pristine water condition, so selected the best way instead of getting a canister filter, would be getting a sump filter.
tank dimensions are (LxBxH) 72"x24"x30".

 

A sump filter would probably be optimal, but have you seen the "fluval G-series filters" I am thinking on getting one, but they are kind-of expensive... just something to think about...

Here is the ling to the filter:

 

For such a large tank, I would reccomend a sump filter. Unfortunately I don't have much experience with sump filters. Ken (aquarist48) has a very large tank and I believe he has a sump filter. Let's see if he has anything to add

 

I seen the canister filter, but none of them offer the filteration which I would require for this size of tank. Sump filter is the cheapest with kind of filteration it offers.

 

fluval fx5 is 925gph

 

Good morning,

I have Edited the title of your thread to include Discus Tank. Maybe it will help you to receive more responses from other Discus keepers.

I'm not certain that a sump or wet dry or even a canister filter is going to be the best option for a Discus tank. I've seen a lot of sponge filtration systems on Discus tanks due to the fact they may not appreciate a great deal of current. Pristine water conditions for these fish are best done by very frequent water changes.

Check out the link below for more details while you wait for other responses:


Please keep us posted on your progress!

Ken

 

I believe ken's thinking is right, but on that size I would still recommend a sump filter. You can spread out the currents by having much larger BUILT IN overflow systems. That way the surface area of the flow into the tank will be lessened.

I would also recommend getting as big a sump as you can, so that your tank is so stable that it is actually more difficult to break the cycle. The increased water volume will also aid in water quality.

Good luck

 

how about sponge filters in the sump?

 

Thanks everyone for your suggestions..
My sump size is going to be around 28gal tank which I guess would be holding around 20 gal at a time but I guess its to small for this size of tank (230Gal).
I might be able to double that size to 56 gal.

 

I'm not sure if a 10 gallon lee-way will be enough. I had a 29 gallon on my 180g tank a while back and the water almost filled the sump when there was a power cut.

I would go at least 40 gallon and even better a 55g.

Luckily, this is one of these things that bigger is ALWAYS better... so go as big as you can.

how about sponge filters in the sump?

Kind of defeats the point actually. There are better ways to fully utilize the space in the sump IMO. A sponge could be put on the return pump though (almost always done).

 

did a little bit of surfing and found out, canister filters any opinion on that?

Hey guys I got a brilliant idea for the filter and was wondering if anyone has tried it or not. I thought instead of placing the sump on the back why not just build it in the tank at the back.. here are some of the designs that I drew..

 

One of the reasons most of us use a sump system is to add more water volume and more filter media at the same time. Building it into the tank is a good idea but it will decrease your total water volume instead of increasing it. I have a 20 gallon sump system that I use on my 125 gallon tank which increases my total water volume to 145 gallons and it it had been inside the tank it would decrease my total area for the fish and not increase my water volume at all.

Because you are going to custom build the tank building the sump system into it might work out great for you. It might even help with the bracing of the tank walls.

 

Glad to see you're playing with ideas!

As for the idea, the end decision is still yours, but for the exact reason that bowcrazy stated, I wouldnt go for it. That's just me though. Unless you are completely limited for space, try to increase your water volume as much as you possibly can - especially since you are going for discus.

Remember if you are limited on space the sump can be customised to that limited space. I have seen VERY shallow sumps that fit under the display tank. Fine the limitation is it can't be too high, but the length and width of the sump was the same as the tank itself.

 

Bowcrazy and iZao Jnr: I am not going to reduce the size of the tank actually instead of placing it under I am just making it at the back of the tank. My tank volume is going to be the same 230 gallons. The only problem that I worry about is will it work.

Yesterday I just made a same size model of the tank and stand and it looked too tall, as this tank is going to be placed in my living room, the total height at which the stand and tank stood was 5.5ft from the bottom, I had to reduce my stand height thus reducing my internal stand space will be posting the stand design to later..

And can anyone tell me how much space do I need between the sump tank and the stand ceiling for the plumbing, and which pipe do I use for the plumbing. If I do finally decide to place the tank below.

 

I have seen this design before and I have seen it work well. It is nowhere near the size of yours but similar in design. One of my LFS market this design almost exclusively.

I am unable to find pictures of this design.

They use a slight (2/3mm) slit between the glass of the tank and the built in design for an inlet. This then follows to the first chamber, then second and then is pumped out by a submersible pump. It is also a very customizable system and seems to actually work very well. There aren't any flooding worries with this system and no plumbing required, but still lacks the full blown advantages of the tank.

IMO, if you are able to spare the space behind the tank, why not use that for more actual display tank space?

You can use just about any plumbing that is drinking water safe. I use a usual siphon hose (the clear ones) that all aquarium stores sell. I have seen people use pvc pipes for larger tanks which might be a better option on your size tank.

 

Well, I can't use that space coz, my wall is curved so can't fit a rectangular tank, so to avoid the curve my tank length will be shortened by another 10 inches and the shop from where I am going to get the glass is still going to charge me for the whole 6ft long glass. So might as well make the tank 6ft long...

any suggestions on what brand of pumps I should use for the return? And what should I use for filter media. I was thinking of getting sponges for the prefilter , then ceramic rings of the bio filtration, and then white fiber wool for polishing. Was also thinking that I may think of adding a refugium in place of the ceramic rings..

 

I use two brands in particular. Dont know if you have them in india, but they are ViaAqua and Atman. Neither have failed to impress me. For gph turnover, I aI'm for 10x the volume of the tank because you have to compensate for the height it must pump up.

This is how both of my sumps have been laid out in the past and have worked.

1. Prefilter - Medium Fine Sponge and Filter Floss
2. Chamber 1 - Bio Balls - As much as you can
3. Chamber 2 - Chemical Filtration or More Mechanical
3. Chamber 3 - Ceramic Rings - The more the better
4. Pump Chamber - Pump, heaters, sponge on intake.

You can do that or the classic:

1: Mech filtration
2. Chem filtration
3. Bio media.

I like both, just the first one is less maintenance IME.

As for specifically what to put in the mech chamber. Start with course and end with fine. Doesnt matter what you use. Sponges are better than anything else anyway.

A refugium can be a great idea for water quality. I wouldnt recommend subbing it out for biological media though. I would maybe create another chamber for it, or sub the chemical chamber (if you plan on one).

For a refugium you will need plants that grow REALLY FAST and are almost parasitic to be fully effective. You will also need another set of ADEQUATE lighting and maybe dose with co2 and ferts. It can work though and will give you crisp water quality if it does. I would suggest researching the plants used for this purpose and what kind of environment they thrive in.

 

I asked my LFS, and he has Atman, and also found a guy who makes custom pumps, have told him my requirements lets hope for the best... (fingers crossed)

 

Good to hear!

Keep us updated!

 

Inbuilt sumps work very well also. I personally would have gone with a external sump, the more mech and bio the better for discus + the added advantages of keeping all the equipment out of the tank.

I find my discus enjoy the current the eheim 2217s put out its not super strong but some makes me believe some current is good.

I believe Izao cover the media perfectly! refugiums also seem to be becoming more popular, seeing as your going with discus and not a cichlid etc I would just add more bio and chemical over a refugium due to the fact you can add plants to the tank which will play the same roll as if in the filter where as if you wanted to add more media of any sort placing it in the tank won't work if you get where I am coming from.

Cant wait to see this finished any ideas on a stock list?

 

Inbuilt sumps work very well also. I personally would have gone with a external sump, the more mech and bio the better for discus + the added advantages of keeping all the equipment out of the tank.

I find my discus enjoy the current the eheim 2217s put out its not super strong but some makes me believe some current is good.

Some current is always good for so many reasons There are very few fish that live in completely still water anyway

I believe Izao cover the media perfectly! refugiums also seem to be becoming more popular, seeing as your going with discus and not a cichlid etc I would just add more bio and chemical over a refugium due to the fact you can add plants to the tank which will play the same roll as if in the filter where as if you wanted to add more media of any sort placing it in the tank won't work if you get where I am coming from.

Thank you! I agree I would add more bio and chemical. A discus tank us the only tank I would use Activated Carbon on, as it does work just needs to be changed as often as possible.

Refugiums in freshwater I believe became more popular to lower nitrates, but since nitrates is now more than ever believed to have no adverse effects on fish, it seems to fill a non-existent void. It would soften up the water, and remove any other possible water hardners that could exist in the water, so I guess it isn't completely pointless. A refugium for freshwater would have to be so big and so fully packed though that IMO it is a little too far to go for water quality when there are other (albeit more expensive) options to go for.

 

Yeah iZao my point was more that he can add plants inside the main tank which will work just as well + look better if done right then the area for the Refugium in the sump can be replace for more media which would not work in the tank.

Just using space more smart is what I am saying, you can have an amazing looking tank with plants lushing discus swimming around them all and get the exact same results if not better as you have a larger area to fill then having not so nice plants in a sump where hardly anyone will see them doing the same job. plus when this space is not being used it leaves more area to add bio media etc.

Most people who use a refugium in a sump normally keep cichlids and can't keep the plants in the tanks as they get eaten, discus will not eat plants.

I would have agreed with the carbon also but I recently started using purigen by seachem and its amazing!

 

Yeah iZao my point was more that he can add plants inside the main tank which will work just as well + look better if done right then the area for the Refugium in the sump can be replace for more media which would not work in the tank.

Just using space more smart is what I am saying, you can have an amazing looking tank with plants lushing discus swimming around them all and get the exact same results if not better as you have a larger area to fill then having not so nice plants in a sump where hardly anyone will see them doing the same job. plus when this space is not being used it leaves more area to add bio media etc.

Most people who use a refugium in a sump normally keep cichlids and can't keep the plants in the tanks as they get eaten, discus will not eat plants.

I would have agreed with the carbon also but I recently started using purigen by seachem and its amazing!

I agree. Use the space as best as you can

As for carbon, its personal choice. I used to use it on my tanks but when I stopped I didnt see much difference, except on the smaller tanks. Beyond that, I don't use it, but plan to use it on my 110 gallon in small quantities

 

Thanks for the advice on the refugium, well as you guys might have noticed I am new to the sump, am currently using an eheim 2217 filter on my existing 55gal tank.

Squirtle/ iZaoJNR: your are right about the look of the plants looking good in the tank but I don't know how to take care of them, keep the discus is a first for me so maybe I'll give a try after sometime..
and I am going to be purchasing juvies around maybe 4"-5" big, and from what I have read its easier to grow discus in a bare bottom tank, so that's what I had planned for my frist time. but the thought of plants in the tank is also a very good idea. do potted plants grow well in a tank?

UPDATE:
Am currently taking it a bit slow, cause am still waiting for the pump for the sump everything is all set except the pump. and plus there are some renovations going on in my house..
So till then am reading up all that I can about discus.. Havn't yet complied a list of the fishes I am going to keep, but am keeping an open mind and will look around and see which I find nice to my liking..
any name suggestions are welcomed...

 

Hey Yusumfm

My first time keeping discus also 2 months in or so, I went with a planted tank and have had no issues but I use sand which makes cleaning the tank just as easy as a bare bottom I find.

You can just use plants in pot plants which give the same results and works just as well, looks nice also then when cleaning day comes just lift the pot plants out clean the base save some water to give the pot and plant a quick dunk and add them back to the main tank.

as for keeping actual plants, I tried to understand it all but there's so much depth and I wanted the tank setup by a fixed date so just tried with a T5 light and some root tabs by seachem which has given me great results, I think as long as you chose nothing with to much requirements like a glosso or HC carpet but stick to java ferns moss amazon swords you should be fine.

You could even add a center driftwood and attach anubias and moss to it.

 

Squirtle: true about the depth about keeping planted tanks, the equipment required for the planted tank increases my budget, and in india the cost of keeping a fully planted tank is quite costly, keeping discus is going to be burning a hole in my pocket, but I can mange that with my current budget. am currently studying for my Chartered Accountants Exams and if you get where I am coming from there is not much money I can spend, not atleast now..

UPDATE:
Would I require Bracing the tank this large, and if so, what would be the best way to do it?

 

Barebottom would just make it easier to vacuum the tank keeping water quality at its top. Sand works well though, not as easy but still manageable.

I think you would definetely require bracing on this tank, unless you go for glass with an incredible safety factor. When choosing glass thickness, people use a safety factor. 3.8 is considered 100% very safe, whereas a lot of people say 2.3ish is still safe. It depends on what you need, whether people will bump the tank, The load the tank etc. I say either or still use bracing to be safe.

Your best bet for a setup would be 2 side braces with glass the same thickness as the tank, and one large/ 2 smaller ones across the tops, same thickness again. You can make it so that these are functional, to mount lights, glass top sliders etc.

 

How do you measure the safety factor? I have read about this but its no where mentioned how do you measure it..

 

Here is a link that will help with the glass thickness and safety issue.

 

Thanks for the link I used it and it tells me to use a 14mm glass for a safety factor of 2.5, but a 14mm glass would cost be double of what a 12mm glass would cost me.
is it okay if I use a tempered or toughened glass? are they both the same thing or two different things?

 

I actually have no idea if there is a difference and I don't know if it can be used.

What I would say is I used 12mm glass on my 180gallon a while ago and I'm glad I didnt go smaller. The dimensions were 62" x 24" x 24"... I was told that 12mm was the limit of the smallest to go. The reason that link tells you 14mm glass is because of the height of your tank. This height increases the surface area on the front and back glass astronomically, thereby increases the amount of force it has to withstand.

If you are looking to save a bit, I know that people use the thicker glass on the front, bottom and back panels, and thinner on the sides. Dont take my word for it though. You must research this well if you want to do it.

In a simple answer, go for 14mm. 12mm is a bit too risky IMO. One bad bump and you will soooo regret it.

 

Any glass will work for bracing, I use plastic bracing which you can rip off and the tank slants forward if you do(not good) but once its in place it holds fine, I just hate bracing always in my way when trying to get wood or rocks in.

As Izao said though your tank is much larger then my 120G so I doubt the plastic is a good idea, I would go for 14mm also, you don't need prefect glass but go to glaziers and ask if they have any off cuts in that size if your looking to save money, also not sure where your getting the glass but its always cheaper to get the glass from a glazier and take it into your LFS.

 

What is Glazier? is it a store or something, cause if it is there is none where I live..
I will surely research it before I built the tank, thanks for the advice..

 

its like a glass supplier, knowing us down here its not called this anywhere else we have nick names for everything lol. electrician is a sparky etc.

glazier = supplier of glass, the person your aquarium would call to get the glass from, pretty much you cut out the middle man which is much cheaper, same with stands I also go to a carpenter and ask him to build the stands rather then going threw the aquarium which gives the same item just with profit on top for them.

 

My tank is rimless and braceless (100gal) and uses .5" glass (12.7mm). The tank builder would not go smaller then .5" with this size tank. I like the size and have had no problems going on about 2 years now?





The thickness of the glass really comes down to the height of the tank. The shorter it is the thinner the glass can be. The taller the tank, the more glass has to be used. Quite honestly, for a 30" tall rimless tank with that much water I would consider 3/4" or 1" thick glass. Would cost more, but would give me peace of mind personally. Everyone i've talked to that owns a tank of this size rimless or has looked into it recommends at least 3/4" (19mm) glass. Its going to be a very heavy tank when dry by the way.

If indeed you go to bracing, I would probably do a Eurostyle, leaves the top majorly open and accessible.

 

Agreed Eurostyle bracing is your best bet.

Again, glass I agree, 14mm but are you going rimless or not? Personally on a tank that size, ive seen it go wrong too many times to recommend it.

 

HI Matt, am very glad that you have replied and thank you very much for the advice, very much appreciated..

After a lot of research and asking I think I am finally will go with the euro bracing, as I can't afford it, and I save a lot of money which I can use in other aspects of the build like the filtration, lighting and most importantly the FISH..
will be using a 12mm glass with 4inch cross bracing, have figured out a way to hide the bracing with a wooden frame. so at the end of the day the bracing won't be seen. Have also got the return pump for the sump, which I have to still test,[having renovation work going on in my home so can't test at the moment, hoping that the work gets over soon still 15-20days more to go.. ]

am thinking of selling my current stock to my LFS and getting juvies which I'll grow out in the 55 gal tank. cause this project is going to take me more time than I initially anticipated..

 

HI Matt, am very glad that you have replied and thank you very much for the advice, very much appreciated..

After a lot of research and asking I think I am finally will go with the euro bracing, as I can't afford it, and I save a lot of money which I can use in other aspects of the build like the filtration, lighting and most importantly the FISH..
will be using a 12mm glass with 4inch cross bracing, have figured out a way to hide the bracing with a wooden frame. so at the end of the day the bracing won't be seen. Have also got the return pump for the sump, which I have to still test,[having renovation work going on in my home so can't test at the moment, hoping that the work gets over soon still 15-20days more to go.. ]

am thinking of selling my current stock to my LFS and getting juvies which I'll grow out in the 55 gal tank. cause this project is going to take me more time than I initially anticipated..

Projects like these always do

 

Update: currently on my way to sellout my all of my 5 goldfishes, and making way for new discus which I should be getting in the next week or so. I am taking on the advice of the members and only going to buy 4-5nos juvies 3"-4" as this will be my first buy, I am not planning to buy very expensive but moderate ones like the blue diamonds, or checkerboard ones or may be a school of on of the same kind. Since my tank is already cycled I shouldn't have much problems (fingers crossed)

Wish me luck guys, will upload the pics when I get them..

 

Good luck!... We will definetely want to see those pics