Fertilizing and vacuuming

Hello enthusuasts!
I have a 55 gallon planted freshwater tank running a Marineland bio wheel hob. It's been established for well over a year. When I first started with live plants, I met a fellow with an absolutely gorgeous tank who advised me on fertilizer to use. He's got me on the Thrive shrimp specific all-in-one liquid, as well as the stakes by the same company to put in next to each plant.

The trouble I ran into immediately was that I really need to vacuum this tank, and of course that removes the stake nutrients. When I mentioned this to him, he expressed surprise that I needed to vacuum at all, and suggested I might need a different filter. Or, he thought perhaps my tank was just too new, and that once it was fully established, I would not need to vacuum. Fast forward a year, and I don't have contact with him anymore to ask, but it is an undeniable fact that I still need to vacuum.

My question is really about the vacuuming. The Marineland according to manufacturer specs is plenty big for my size of tank. I'm wondering if a filter from a different manufacturer would be better, or switching to a canister, or whether I should just resign myself to a lifetime of vacuuming and give up on the idea of using this type of fertilizer.

I've enjoyed aquariums for many many years, and I have always vacuumed. If there is some kind of magic by which vacuuming could be avoided, I would sure like to know what it is.

Thanks!

 

I've heard of some people putting a drainage system on the bottom of their aquarium. I don't know much about that.
I'm not an expert by any means, but eventually vacuuming is necessary in my opinion. Wouldn't you be able to just add more fertilizer afterwards?

 

I've heard of some people putting a drainage system on the bottom of their aquarium. I don't know much about that.
I'm not an expert by any means, but eventually vacuuming is necessary in my opinion. Wouldn't you be able to just add more fertilizer afterwards?

Drainage? That sounds interesting. Back in the day I ran undergravel filtration but i think we still vacuumed...

Yes, i could add more in-ground ferts but they're not cheap and are supposed to last a few months. I vacuum at least monthly, biweekly if I'm not being lazy.

 

May I ask why you feel the need to vacuum? I've kept tanks for a while and never vacuumed the substrates. The stuff that accumulates at the top of the substate eventually breaks down into the substrate and becomes all natural, *free*, fertilizer. It's why I rarely need to use additive fertilizer. I'm by no means the pioneer of this no-vacuum idea either. As long as your tank is handling the ammonia properly, I wouldn't be worried about your filter

 

May I ask why you feel the need to vacuum? I've kept tanks for a while and never vacuumed the substrates. The stuff that accumulates at the top of the substate eventually breaks down into the substrate and becomes all natural, *free*, fertilizer. It's why I rarely need to use additive fertilizer. I'm by no means the pioneer of this no-vacuum idea either. As long as your tank is handling the ammonia properly, I wouldn't be worried about your filter

That's actually pretty cool, I didn't know that.

 

That's actually pretty cool, I didn't know that.

Yeah I thought the same! The light bulb moment for me was when someone pointed out to me to think about what happens in nature. I haven't read the book, but Diana Walstaad has a book about all natural, low tech planted tanks that are nearly self-sufficient.

 

May I ask why you feel the need to vacuum? I've kept tanks for a while and never vacuumed the substrates. The stuff that accumulates at the top of the substate eventually breaks down into the substrate and becomes all natural, *free*, fertilizer. It's why I rarely need to use additive fertilizer. I'm by no means the pioneer of this no-vacuum idea either. As long as your tank is handling the ammonia properly, I wouldn't be worried about your filter

This was my first question. What is behind the "I need to vacuum" thought?

Or what specifically is leading to that?

I think gently siphoning the top of the substrate while changing water is maybe common, but I don't think many people with moderate to heavy planted tanks disturb the substrate to truly "vacuum" it.

 

This is a very fair question. Basically, I can see gradu in the front of the tank where I'm able to actually see below the substrate surface. Maybe that's not an issue... and when I do vacuum, the amount of stuff that comes up out of the rocks is impressive. But maybe that would be true in anybody's tank. I absolutely have to do regular water changes to keep the nitrate levels acceptable. I've wondered if that has to do with me having a log in there that is decomposing. I also have a pleco and a couple of mystery snails that would be increasing the bioload.

I have noticed that if I leave the water alone, my plants look much better. But then my nitrate levels rise. Perhaps I will do a couple of months of water changes only, no vacuuming, and see how it pans out.
Here's a picture of the tank in general, to give you an idea of the planting. It is in desperate need of some gardening - please don't judge! Also attached is a close-up of the gradu.

 

This is a very fair question. Basically, I can see gradu in the front of the tank where I'm able to actually see below the substrate surface. Maybe that's not an issue... and when I do vacuum, the amount of stuff that comes up out of the rocks is impressive. But maybe that would be true in anybody's tank. I absolutely have to do regular water changes to keep the nitrate levels acceptable. I've wondered if that has to do with me having a log in there that is decomposing. I also have a pleco and a couple of mystery snails that would be increasing the bioload.

I have noticed that if I leave the water alone, my plants look much better. But then my nitrate levels rise. Perhaps I will do a couple of months of water changes only, no vacuuming, and see how it pans out.
Here's a picture of the tank in general, to give you an idea of the planting. It is in desperate need of some gardening - please don't judge! Also attached is a close-up of the gradu.

Yeah I would just do water changes and stop with the fertilizing and see how your nitrates do with that. That gravel is a little large and not very porous for a planted tank but it shouldn't be too big an issue. I use a mix of black diamond blasting sand and eco-complete. And that brown 'gradu' you can see is rich in nutrients for your plant's roots.

 

As long as the gradu doesn't form any dead spots, i can learn to live with it, or maybe clean it just from the very front so I don't have to look at it. Okay, im going to try this. Thanks for the responses!

Just to clarify, i havent actually added liquid ferts in many months. My nitrates were totally out of control with those, but the tank was newer then and perhaps still cycling...

 

This is a very fair question. Basically, I can see gradu in the front of the tank where I'm able to actually see below the substrate surface. Maybe that's not an issue... and when I do vacuum, the amount of stuff that comes up out of the rocks is impressive. But maybe that would be true in anybody's tank. I absolutely have to do regular water changes to keep the nitrate levels acceptable. I've wondered if that has to do with me having a log in there that is decomposing. I also have a pleco and a couple of mystery snails that would be increasing the bioload.

I have noticed that if I leave the water alone, my plants look much better. But then my nitrate levels rise. Perhaps I will do a couple of months of water changes only, no vacuuming, and see how it pans out.
Here's a picture of the tank in general, to give you an idea of the planting. It is in desperate need of some gardening - please don't judge! Also attached is a close-up of the gradu.

Yeah, that is very normal. If you stick a gravel vac deep into any planted tank, an impressive amount of stuff is going to come out. But that's the stuff the plants want!

Absolutely do routine/normal water changes. Rising nitrates are normal. That's how the cycle works. But you don't need to gravel vac deep in the substrate. I just gently pull debris from the top of the gravel (without disturbing it) during water changes. Anything that makes it's way down from there is already plant food .

 

Poop is fertilizer (mostly N and P), you are removing fertilizer by vacuuming and then adding fertilizer. Doesn't make much sense.

 

If you want to clean the glass down at the gravel line, try using a credit card.

Here is a video from 2Hr Aquarist showing how some folks (like me) "vacuum" a planted tank:

.

 

Cherry shrimp, I've been vacuuming out of concern for anaerobic spots, and for aesthetic. And if the substrate provides all of the needed nutrients for the plants, why does anybody with a planted tank add fertilizer? (Rhetorical question) But as I say, I'm eager to try doing very superficial vacuuming if any, to just do water changes, and monitor the nitrate as suggested.

If you want to clean the glass down at the gravel line, try using a credit card.

Here is a video from 2Hr Aquarist showing how some folks (like me) "vacuum" a planted tank:

.

Oh that's cool, mudminnow, thanks!

 

In a low tech (low light, no pressurised CO2) tank you may not need to add fertiliser at all if your stock provides enough macro nutrients such as N & P. You may benefit from adding micro nutrients occasionally, but if you already have sufficient N & P levels you won't want to be adding an all-in-one like Thrive unless you monitor your parameters closely and do large regular water changes to keep N & P levels acceptable.

I don't vacuum my planted tanks because it's impossible, the substrate is covered in plants with roots throughout. Since I'm not removing the gradual build up of mulm/silt the substrate will eventually require removal and cleaning or replacement but I find that it can take a number of years depending on the substrate and other factors.

 

The magic you ask for, would be a different substrate in my opinion. Sand is easiest. Waste will then stay on top and can first be processed by e.g. snails and invertebrates (if you have them) and further processed by microorganisms and bacteria. Snails and invertebrates (shrimp) are not able to access the waste if its between the small pebbles.

But yes, you will see some waste on top of the soil, so aesthetically, you might find it ugly. I find it natural and beautiful and very beneficial.

By the way, there is no need to fear anaerobic spots; firstly, it will not appear in a substrate like yours, and secondly, its not dangerous (in fact, it has benefits).

"And if the substrate provides all of the needed nutrients for the plants, why does anybody with a planted tank add fertilizer? (Rhetorical question)"

Ignoring the rhetoric part, not all nutrients are available in e.g. fish poop, and some nutrients might only be available in insufficient quantities.

 

In a low tech (low light, no pressurised CO2) tank you may not need to add fertiliser at all if your stock provides enough macro nutrients such as N & P. You may benefit from adding micro nutrients occasionally, but if you already have sufficient N & P levels you won't want to be adding an all-in-one like Thrive unless you monitor your parameters closely and do large regular water changes to keep N & P levels acceptable.

I don't vacuum my planted tanks because it's impossible, the substrate is covered in plants with roots throughout. Since I'm not removing the gradual build up of mulm/silt the substrate will eventually require removal and cleaning or replacement but I find that it can take a number of years depending on the substrate and other factors.

Mulm - awesome word!!! How do you decide when it's time to replace substrate in that case?

 

Mulm - awesome word!!! How do you decide when it's time to replace substrate in that case?

Water clarity....more frequent filter cleaning. Just visually it's pretty obvious when gravel is full of sediment. Sand is better if you don't intend to vacuum.