Fertilization Dosing

appcontrol
  • #1
Ok so 85l tank, around 80% stocked, at this moment I am adding liquid co2(easy carbo) 1,5ml daily, 3ml of profito (microelements) and jbl kugeln in fine gravel substrate and that's it, actually I started adding profito 1 week ago and after first dose I started having small algae problems but I need to find right dose.
So my question is do I need to add macroelements jbl npk or diy varient of that, I was thinking to start adding 1ml per day but not sure would I do more bad than good in tank?
 
SFGiantsGuy
  • #2
Perhaps try not to add any liquid macros mixed in with the micros, as sometimes the molecules can bond together, therefore creating an unacceptable form of the nutrients for the plants, pretty much rendering them moot altogether; in essence, it'd be kinda like mixing oil and water. Maybe add them on separate days. It's what I do on all of my planted tanks. Although everyone's tank IS different, another example would be is: what I do is the every other day method, dose of liquid potassium and iron. Plants NEED potassium in order to assimilate iron, thus I add potassium one day, then the next day, add iron, then the next day, the potassium, then the next day, more iron and so on etc. etc.
 
appcontrol
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
Perhaps try not to add any liquid macros mixed in with the micros, as sometimes the molecules can bond together, therefore creating an unacceptable form of the nutrients for the plants, pretty much rendering them moot altogether; in essence, it'd be kinda like mixing oil and water. Maybe add them on separate days. It's what I do on all of my planted tanks. Although everyone's tank IS different, another example would be is: what I do is the every other day method, dose of liquid potassium and iron. Plants NEED potassium in order to assimilate iron, thus I add potassium one day, then the next day, add iron, then the next day, the potassium, then the next day, more iron and so on etc. etc.
Tnx man, do you think mabey to do this every day liquid co2 (I don't have pressurezid) and one day 2-3ml of microelements and then day after jbl npk macroelements 1ml etc.?

And I forget to tell that my light period is 8 hours
 
SFGiantsGuy
  • #4
Correct. Although my recommendation is to perhaps dose the liquid CO2 every other day. And perhaps try dosing 2-3ml of MACROS one day, then the next day do 1 ml of MICROS--pretty much in opposite order in which you have stated. Plants need much more of the MACROS on a more frequent basis. And what type of plants/how many do you have???
 
appcontrol
  • Thread Starter
  • #5
Correct. Although my recommendation is to perhaps dose the liquid CO2 every other day. And perhaps try dosing 2-3ml of MACROS one day, then the next day do 1 ml of MICROS--pretty much in opposite order in which you have stated. Plants need much more of the MACROS on a more frequent basis. And what type of plants/how many do you have???
You don't think that every other day of co2 is too low? I have anubias, java fern, moss, marimoballs, hygrophila difformis like 6-7 plants in back, some hygrophilia polysperma, some lobelia cardinalis minI and I think some kind of red Ludwigia ( not all plants are growing good beacuose only nutrients in substrate is jbl balls, I didn't prepare that good for plants in first aquarium. And I just started adding micro and no macro yet.
 
Baba
  • #6
I used this calculator to come up with an recipe for my dosing regime. It will give you the correct ratio of macros to micros. Start slow and increase to suggested dose until your tank behaves the way you like it.
 
SFGiantsGuy
  • #7
You have some very very nice easy ones sir! : ) The overall key is to steadily reach the "balance" of ferts, light etc. in your tank. Moreover, an unfortunate consequence can be is...algae. Uncontrollable and sporadic algae outbreaks are quite simply an indication of nutrient imbalance--either too much ferts...or not enough ferts. They key is to through much trial and error, is to strike that "sweet spot", and maintain a steady, routine balance. Plants need "routine" to achieve said balance, so thus, use your light on a regular, closest threshold as possible, is possible, down to the very minute. SLOWLY dose ferts until you start to discover the desired results, (new growth, pearling etc.) then adjust accordingly if needed, but also do that SLOWLY so they have a chance to adjust. Although most liquid CO2's ARE essentially an algaecide, you at least need some very very small amount of algae, to indicate that you tank is able to process nitrogen and your tank is "alive". Liquid CO2 is pretty darn good IMO as well. The plants you own honestly, aren't all that demanding regardless. Just keep a steady fert schedule, as the thing is, granted the non overbearing and appropriate conditions, plants are more capable of adjusting and are more versatile than most people think. And do be mindful and read carefully of the actual ingredients in your ferts and do decisive calculating and with scrutiny! I actually use a small mix of Thrive, Easy Green, (Aquarium Co-Op's brand) Tums human digestive medicine once per week, (YES, Tums! lol) as some of the ferts I use are almost completely absent of calcium carbonate for plants and my Nerites. As well as Seachem Iron, Potassium, Flourish, Advance and Excel. And root tabs (API and Flourish tabs) for the Swords and other stem plants. I also only do 1 ppm injected CO2 now. And aquarium salt added only 1 tbsp. per week.

Oops, typos--I meant 2 ppm CO2.
 
appcontrol
  • Thread Starter
  • #8
You have some very very nice easy ones sir! : ) The overall key is to steadily reach the "balance" of ferts, light etc. in your tank. Moreover, an unfortunate consequence can be is...algae. Uncontrollable and sporadic algae outbreaks are quite simply an indication of nutrient imbalance--either too much ferts...or not enough ferts. They key is to through much trial and error, is to strike that "sweet spot", and maintain a steady, routine balance. Plants need "routine" to achieve said balance, so thus, use your light on a regular, closest threshold as possible, is possible, down to the very minute. SLOWLY dose ferts until you start to discover the desired results, (new growth, pearling etc.) then adjust accordingly if needed, but also do that SLOWLY so they have a chance to adjust. Although most liquid CO2's ARE essentially an algaecide, you at least need some very very small amount of algae, to indicate that you tank is able to process nitrogen and your tank is "alive". Liquid CO2 is pretty darn good IMO as well. The plants you own honestly, aren't all that demanding regardless. Just keep a steady fert schedule, as the thing is, granted the non overbearing and appropriate conditions, plants are more capable of adjusting and are more versatile than most people think. And do be mindful and read carefully of the actual ingredients in your ferts and do decisive calculating and with scrutiny! I actually use a small mix of Thrive, Easy Green, (Aquarium Co-Op's brand) Tums human digestive medicine once per week, (YES, Tums! lol) as some of the ferts I use are almost completely absent of calcium carbonate for plants and my Nerites. As well as Seachem Iron, Potassium, Flourish, Advance and Excel. And root tabs (API and Flourish tabs) for the Swords and other stem plants. I also only do 1 ppm injected CO2 now. And aquarium salt added only 1 tbsp. per week.
Tnx on all info man. I will try every other day schedule with 3ml macro nitrogen, potassium and phosphor, 1ml micro and I think I will keep adding 1.5ml of co2 daily and then I will adjust until I get good balance. Tnx one more time on all advices

Plus I have ferropol - iron so I will put it after water change once a week
 
SFGiantsGuy
  • #9
Your welcome sir. As I said, every tank IS different. And with all things considered and applied, your results literally, WILL be relative to YOUR tank. ALL tanks require different regimens and tweaking. It's your task to nurse your plants to their ideal conditions. : ) Sounds like you're doing perfectly!
 
Ioana Dog
  • #10
This is way more complicated than I expected. I’m just starting to figure out what fert to use when and worry about overdosing something. Could too much of anything kill my fish? I'm assuming too much CO2 is bad but I don’t know.
 
Baba
  • #11
This is way more complicated than I expected. I’m just starting to figure out what fert to use when and worry about overdosing something. Could too much of anything kill my fish? I'm assuming too much CO2 is bad but I don’t know.
Too much is definitely harmful! I have never heard of anyone overdosing fertilizer and causing harm but think its possible. However, with CO2 I know enough horror stories and I as well have wiped out an entire shrimp tank. Plant growth was phenomenal though.
 
SFGiantsGuy
  • #12
Yeah don't wanna gas your fish or anything else! I almost did once... : (

Shoot, sorry if I made it sound too complicated. : (
 
Ioana Dog
  • #13
Shoot, sorry if I made it sound too complicated. : (

No that’s fine! It is complicated if you want to do it right. When I asked the guy said to just plant them and forget about them, I didn’t have to do anything - he was wrong but happy he made a sale I suppose.
 
-Mak-
  • #14
This is way more complicated than I expected. I’m just starting to figure out what fert to use when and worry about overdosing something. Could too much of anything kill my fish? I'm assuming too much CO2 is bad but I don’t know.
Not with ferts, only with pressurized CO2 and the liquid carbon substitutes.
 
Baba
  • #15
No that’s fine! It is complicated if you want to do it right. When I asked the guy said to just plant them and forget about them, I didn’t have to do anything - he was wrong but happy he made a sale I suppose.
Don't be intimidated, just do it. Have a good starting point and then follow SFGiantsGuy advise. Go slow, really slow from there. Only change one parameter at the time, wait and see how it affects your plants. Keeping a journal in the beginning really helped me.
 
SFGiantsGuy
  • #16
Yeah, and some notes, dry erase board etc. etc. Then as you progress, you'll get used to it, as well as compare your notes and make adjustments accordingly etc. etc. Good luck there!
 
Ioana Dog
  • #17
I started fert dosing more because some anubias leaves are turning yellow and some of the amazon leaves are becoming transparent but I think I’m doing something wrong because now I have brown algae in some of my tanks. Could the fert be causing the algae? Also, how long until I see my plants are doing better and do I remove the yellow and transparent leaves? I can’t keep house plants alive so maybe I shouldn’t have planted tanks
 
Baba
  • #18
I started fert dosing more because some anubias leaves are turning yellow and some of the amazon leaves are becoming transparent but I think I’m doing something wrong because now I have brown algae in some of my tanks. Could the fert be causing the algae? Also, how long until I see my plants are doing better and do I remove the yellow and transparent leaves? I can’t keep house plants alive so maybe I shouldn’t have planted tanks
Did you just blindly dosed ferts or did you do some measurements to determine what nutrient is deficient? Most issues are a lack of sufficient CO2 in relation to available light, yellowing older leaves could be a lack of N too, though.
 
Ioana Dog
  • #19
I went with the whole blind dosing thing using recommended doses on the bottles. How and what do I test for? I have a lot of aeration in my tanks so maybe that is causing a lower level of CO2?
 
Baba
  • #20
I went with the whole blind dosing thing using recommended doses on the bottles. How and what do I test for? I have a lot of aeration in my tanks so maybe that is causing a lower level of CO2?
I assume you have a API test kit? You can test for your NO3 and keep this slightly elevated 10-20ppm, this will cover your macro N. For P you would need to get a separate test but the one from API is really awful to use. I got one from Henna but they aren't cheap. I found no real good and affordable K test (I found one in Germany but the initial costs are 90 EUR ($108) and refills costs 62 EUR ($75). Here it's best to just have the levels elevated by calculation and take excess out with your WC.
Yes, surface aeration drives CO2 out of the water column. You could get a drop checker relatively cheap and get a feeling what your level is (blue very low, green good for plants and yellow >30ppm danger for fish and shrimps)
 
Ioana Dog
  • #21
Thank you. Yes I have the API master kit and check regularly. I’ll buy the CO2 monitor. Thank you!! The potassium test is a little too much for me so if excess doesn’t hurt the fish I’ll play around with supplements until I figure it out. I have 13 tanks so I have a lot of other expenses with all the tanks.

My otos aren’t eating the brown algae fast enough so I’m going to get snails. Maybe mystery snails unless you can recommend a better one.

Thank you for your help!!!!!
 
Baba
  • #22
That's a lot of tanks. Are all planted?
If you google info graphics of plant nutrient deficiencies you will find some handy charts, they are a starting point to find the limiting nutrient.
 
Ioana Dog
  • #23
That's a lot of tanks. Are all planted?
If you google info graphics of plant nutrient deficiencies you will find some handy charts, they are a starting point to find the limiting nutrient.


It is a lot of tanks and they’re all over my house. All but the quarantine and hospital tanks are planted and they all basically have the same types of plants. I’m trying to consolidate my tanks but I have to re-home some fish first.
 
Ioana Dog
  • #24
Did you just blindly dosed ferts or did you do some measurements to determine what nutrient is deficient? Most issues are a lack of sufficient CO2 in relation to available light, yellowing older leaves could be a lack of N too, though.

I got a CO2 monitor and my tanks are low. Will adding liquid CO2 (excel) actually raise the CO2 value so I’ll see the monitor change colors?
 
Baba
  • #25
I got a CO2 monitor and my tanks are low. Will adding liquid CO2 (excel) actually raise the CO2 value so I’ll see the monitor change colors?
No, you will not see a change. The liquid CO2 compounds are a different pair of shoes than the dissolved CO2 in water. My guess is your plants will benefit from the Excel dosing but do it lightly.
There are some plants, vals come to mind, which do not like Excel.
To elevate the dissolved CO2 level you would need to reduce surface aeration. Maybe cutting it down at night will elevate the levels so the plants have food when the photosynthesis period begins.
 
Ioana Dog
  • #26
No, you will not see a change. The liquid CO2 compounds are a different pair of shoes than the dissolved CO2 in water. My guess is your plants will benefit from the Excel dosing but do it lightly.
There are some plants, vals come to mind, which do not like Excel.
To elevate the dissolved CO2 level you would need to reduce surface aeration. Maybe cutting it down at night will elevate the levels so the plants have food when the photosynthesis period begins.

Thank you!
 
SFGiantsGuy
  • #27
Other than test kits, which admittedly I do not use, I just eyeball it: Algae: too much light, or too or too little much ferts. An overabundance of algae, simply indicates an imbalance is all. Great, consistent growth, means you're doing it correctly, thus not needing much adjustment. The thing is that most new live plant grower do is: They try too hard. You need to start your dosing regimens SLOW, and steady. Slow...and steady, gradually adding more as time goes on. You must be in "tune" and within the "zone" to maintain that balance. Patience is also key and very mandatory.
 
Ioana Dog
  • #28
Other than test kits, which admittedly I do not use, I just eyeball it: Algae: too much light, or too or too little much ferts. An overabundance of algae, simply indicates an imbalance is all. Great, consistent growth, means you're doing it correctly, thus not needing much adjustment. The thing is that most new live plant grower do is: They try too hard. You need to start your dosing regimens SLOW, and steady. Slow...and steady, gradually adding more as time goes on. You must be in "tune" and within the "zone" to maintain that balance. Patience is also key and very mandatory.

Thank you. That makes me feel better. Some of my plants already have yellow or thinning leaves. Should I just trim them off and keep trying to get it fine tuned? The people at the aquarium store make it sound so easy!
 
danhutchins
  • #29
I started fert dosing more because some anubias leaves are turning yellow and some of the amazon leaves are becoming transparent but I think I’m doing something wrong because now I have brown algae in some of my tanks. Could the fert be causing the algae? Also, how long until I see my plants are doing better and do I remove the yellow and transparent leaves? I can’t keep house plants alive so maybe I shouldn’t have planted tanks
Remove any unhealthy leaves. The ferts are definitely causing the algae. If you increase the fert dose you have to increase everything else as well, like light and co2. If you don't you will have too much fertilizer in the tank and the plants won't be able to ingest it before the algae. Hope this helps.
 
Ioana Dog
  • #30
Remove any unhealthy leaves. The ferts are definitely causing the algae. If you increase the fert dose you have to increase everything else as well, like light and co2. If you don't you will have too much fertilizer in the tank and the plants won't be able to ingest it before the algae. Hope this helps.

That is very helpful. Thank you.
 
danhutchins
  • #31

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