Female Endler still looks prego

FreshwaterCole
Member
Hello,

Quick question on the endler livebearers and pregnancy.

A continuation of last post "Can you identify this Male guppy"

We have a female endler, gold I think, and has popped out 1 healthy fry and 2 that were stuck together, now just one as the other im assuming has died...haven't seen it. Her gravoid is still defined, so I removed the male guppy and he's in his own tank for now. They seemed fine but if she's still preggo I'm assuming it's better he's not bothering her...new to guppys lol....its now 2 days since bringing them home.

My question....

How long can fry remain inside between 'drops' or births?


Thanks in advance!
 
JtheFishMan
Member
Fry delivery can take up a few hours, some rarely lasting longer than an entire day. They tend to deliver best when the lights are off on the aquarium. This makes them feel more comfortable and makes the delivery process much smoother. However, I've had plenty of guppies and endlers drop fry in the middle of the day with lights on.

If your tank is heavily planted, you shouldn't have to worry about removing the male, as the fry will hide within the decor. But, you should try to avoid moving a pregnant fish when the female pregnant or delivering, because as I stated earlier, this can cause her to become heavily stressed and abort her fry.

I hope this helped! Feel free to ask more questions, I've hard livebearers for years now, so I have a good handle on them and their behavior.
 
  • Thread Starter
FreshwaterCole
Member
JtheFishMan said:
Fry delivery can take up a few hours, some rarely lasting longer than an entire day. They tend to deliver best when the lights are off on the aquarium. This makes them feel more comfortable and makes the delivery process much smoother. However, I've had plenty of guppies and endlers drop fry in the middle of the day with lights on.

If your tank is heavily planted, you shouldn't have to worry about removing the male, as the fry will hide within the decor. But, you should try to avoid moving a pregnant fish when the female pregnant or delivering, because as I stated earlier, this can cause her to become heavily stressed and abort her fry.

I hope this helped! Feel free to ask more questions, I've hard livebearers for years now, so I have a good handle on them and their behavior.
Thanks for the reply!

Yeah other than bringing home she has remained in same tank, a mix of stem plants, rhizome and floating. The male guppy didn't seem to bother with the fry but taking him out has calmed her down.

Chances are though, from what I've heard here is that she still has the ability to continue gestation from the male endler?, which I'm guessing is what will happen. I didn't see what the male endler looked like though.

I may get a f/tequilla sunrise if this f/endler cant be bred with the male guppy... I'm sure that color combo would be interesting.

Wonder if blue tint would remain?

Thanks again, I appreciate it!
 
JtheFishMan
Member
FreshwaterCole said:
Thanks for the reply!

Yeah other than bringing home she has remained in same tank, a mix of stem plants, rhizome and floating. The male guppy didn't seem to bother with the fry but taking him out has calmed her down.

Chances are though, from what I've heard here is that she still has the ability to continue gestation from the male endler?, which I'm guessing is what will happen. I didn't see what the male endler looked like though.

I may get a f/tequilla sunrise if this f/endler cant be bred with the male guppy... I'm sure that color combo would be interesting.

Wonder if blue tint would remain?

Thanks again, I appreciate it!
That is good that you have natural plants in the tank. It really does increase fry survival rates. It is also good that your male wasn't bothering the fry, as some will try desperately to get them. It just depends on the individual fish.

The statement about continuing gestation from the male endler. This happens after delivery. In the absence of a male Endler, the female is able to use the genetic material from the male she reproduced with from the last delivery to become pregnant again. This means that your female endler can become pregnant again with the same male, even if he is in another tank. If you add your male back in, they will just reproduce normally just how they did at first.

Another question for you: How many males do you have for your female? It's suggested that you keep 3 females per male so your female doesn't get too stressed out from the continuous breeding attempts from the male.

Reply back with any more questions or updates!
 
  • Thread Starter
FreshwaterCole
Member
JtheFishMan said:
That is good that you have natural plants in the tank. It really does increase fry survival rates. It is also good that your male wasn't bothering the fry, as some will try desperately to get them. It just depends on the individual fish.

The statement about continuing gestation from the male endler. This happens after delivery. In the absence of a male Endler, the female is able to use the genetic material from the male she reproduced with from the last delivery to become pregnant again. This means that your female endler can become pregnant again with the same male, even if he is in another tank. If you add your male back in, they will just reproduce normally just how they did at first.

Another question for you: How many males do you have for your female? It's suggested that you keep 3 females per male so your female doesn't get too stressed out from the continuous breeding attempts from the male.

Reply back with any more questions or updates!
Awesome,

Yeah just her and the 2 (well 1 free swimming and 2 stuck together somewhere in that tank) fry together in that tank, and the male guppy in another.

I was thinking "wait until she births these and then take her and him out and leave fry to grow out, and start a different line with them" lol But after a year in hobby I should.know better than to be assuming etc !
 
JtheFishMan
Member
FreshwaterCole said:
Awesome,

Yeah just her and the 2 (well 1 free swimming and 2 stuck together somewhere in that tank) fry together in that tank, and the male guppy in another.

I was thinking "wait until she births these and then take her and him out and leave fry to grow out, and start a different line with them" lol But after a year in hobby I should.know better than to be assuming etc !
If you plan on doing that, it takes a few months for the fry to become sexually mature, so you’ll be waiting a minute for that to happen.
 
emeraldking
Member
What also can happen is that just a few will be dropped (if in the egg are more nutrients present). Those fertilized eggs with less nutrients will take longer before the fry will be dropped. An embryo in a high nutrient containing egg, will be born sooner. But this will always be a low number of the eggs. That's why early borns will be low in number. This will also answer the question if you see just a few fry, that it can also only be just a few. And that no others were eaten by adults. For I do read quite often that people think that there must have been more fry. So, they must be eaten (at least, that's what I read quite often). So, that doesn't have to be the case.
Before any fertilization of the eggs will take place, the developed eggs of ovoviviparous livebearers are already filled with nutrients. This is called pre-fertilization.
In general, all eggs of the same batch will have an equal amount of nutrients. But it does happen that some will have more or even less nutrients. If an egg has more nutrients in comparison to the rest, the embryo will develop and grow faster. I'm explicitely mentioning developing and growing as two seperate issues. For when an egg has been fertilized, it only takes a few days for an embryo to be fully developed (between 3-6 days). The remaining gestation period is just meant for growing. A fertilized egg with a very low level of nutrients, will result in an undeveloped embryo. If a female is stressing, these eggs with a very low nutrients level will be dropped first. For these eggs haven't grown that much and are easier to drop. This will also answer the question why undeveloped embryos are dropped when the mother is in a stressful situation.
 
  • Thread Starter
FreshwaterCole
Member
JtheFishMan said:
If you plan on doing that, it takes a few months for the fry to become sexually mature, so you’ll be waiting a minute for that to happen.
Yep, nothing wrong with that! Lol
 
JtheFishMan
Member
emeraldking said:
What also can happen is that just a few will be dropped (if in the egg are more nutrients present). Those fertilized eggs with less nutrients will take longer before the fry will be dropped. An embryo in a high nutrient containing egg, will be born sooner. But this will always be a low number of the eggs. That's why early borns will be low in number. This will also answer the question if you see just a few fry, that it can also only be just a few. And that no others were eaten by adults. For I do read quite often that people think that there must have been more fry. So, they must be eaten (at least, that's what I read quite often). So, that doesn't have to be the case.
Before any fertilization of the eggs will take place, the developed eggs of ovoviviparous livebearers are already filled with nutrients. This is called pre-fertilization.
In general, all eggs of the same batch will have an equal amount of nutrients. But it does happen that some will have more or even less nutrients. If an egg has more nutrients in comparison to the rest, the embryo will develop and grow faster. I'm explicitely mentioning developing and growing as two seperate issues. For when an egg has been fertilized, it only takes a few days for an embryo to be fully developed (between 3-6 days). The remaining gestation period is just meant for growing. A fertilized egg with a very low level of nutrients, will result in an undeveloped embryo. If a female is stressing, these eggs with a very low nutrients level will be dropped first. For these eggs haven't grown that much and are easier to drop. This will also answer the question why undeveloped embryos are dropped when the mother is in a stressful situation.
Thanks for the information! That makes so much sense.
 
  • Thread Starter
FreshwaterCole
Member
emeraldking said:
What also can happen is that just a few will be dropped (if in the egg are more nutrients present). Those fertilized eggs with less nutrients will take longer before the fry will be dropped. An embryo in a high nutrient containing egg, will be born sooner. But this will always be a low number of the eggs. That's why early borns will be low in number. This will also answer the question if you see just a few fry, that it can also only be just a few. And that no others were eaten by adults. For I do read quite often that people think that there must have been more fry. So, they must be eaten (at least, that's what I read quite often). So, that doesn't have to be the case.
Before any fertilization of the eggs will take place, the developed eggs of ovoviviparous livebearers are already filled with nutrients. This is called pre-fertilization.
In general, all eggs of the same batch will have an equal amount of nutrients. But it does happen that some will have more or even less nutrients. If an egg has more nutrients in comparison to the rest, the embryo will develop and grow faster. I'm explicitely mentioning developing and growing as two seperate issues. For when an egg has been fertilized, it only takes a few days for an embryo to be fully developed (between 3-6 days). The remaining gestation period is just meant for growing. A fertilized egg with a very low level of nutrients, will result in an undeveloped embryo. If a female is stressing, these eggs with a very low nutrients level will be dropped first. For these eggs haven't grown that much and are easier to drop. This will also answer the question why undeveloped embryos are dropped when the mother is in a stressful situation.
Wow, thank you for the well detailed information! Appreciate it. And thanks for coming over to this thread.

That wraps this post up I think
emeraldking ! Awesome
 
emeraldking
Member
JtheFishMan said:
Thanks for the information! That makes so much sense.
Well, I explicitely wanted to write this down overhere. For many think that the stress situation itself causes undeveloped embryos. This is incorrect. They're just easier to release...
 
  • Thread Starter
FreshwaterCole
Member
Thought I would post a pic today, thanks again everyone for replying.
 
JtheFishMan
Member
FreshwaterCole said:
Thought I would post a pic today, thanks again everyone for replying.
She looks like she’s done delivering. Her stomach is back to normal size.
 
  • Thread Starter
FreshwaterCole
Member
Hello,

Thanks again for replying to my earlier threads on the recent livebearer additions to our fishroom.

I have one more question, hope you don't mind...

I've noticed with the Endler female we have that before and for some time after lights on, maybe an hour max, her gravid spot is not visible.
With room light on for about 20min and then when we turn tank light on, its not visible at all. Under an hour goes by...
Then boom it's there!
Lol is visible and dark/defined for the remainder of the day.

So my question : Is this normal?

Like how some fish retain a different color during lights out and need time to 'color up' or adjust to lighting?

Thanks in advance!
 
JtheFishMan
Member
FreshwaterCole said:
Hello,

Thanks again for replying to my earlier threads on the recent livebearer additions to our fishroom.

I have one more question, hope you don't mind...

I've noticed with the Endler female we have that before and for some time after lights on, maybe an hour max, her gravid spot is not visible.
With room light on for about 20min and then when we turn tank light on, its not visible at all. Under an hour goes by...
Then boom it's there!
Lol is visible and dark/defined for the remainder of the day.

So my question : Is this normal?

Like how some fish retain a different color during lights out and need time to 'color up' or adjust to lighting?

Thanks in advance!
Gravid spots will always be on a female. It has different shades like I said earlier, usually being the darkest when very close to delivery. This sounds normal to me, probably just harder to see it because of the different angles the fish swims at while roaming the tank. Nothing to worry about!
FreshwaterCole said:
Hello,

Thanks again for replying to my earlier threads on the recent livebearer additions to our fishroom.

I have one more question, hope you don't mind...

I've noticed with the Endler female we have that before and for some time after lights on, maybe an hour max, her gravid spot is not visible.
With room light on for about 20min and then when we turn tank light on, its not visible at all. Under an hour goes by...
Then boom it's there!
Lol is visible and dark/defined for the remainder of the day.

So my question : Is this normal?

Like how some fish retain a different color during lights out and need time to 'color up' or adjust to lighting?

Thanks in advance!
Did that answer your question?
 
  • Thread Starter
FreshwaterCole
Member
Yeah thats the thing, its completely tan to almost translucent...then looks like she's preggo again! Lol
FreshwaterCole said:
Yeah thats the thing, its completely tan to almost translucent...then looks like she's preggo again! Lol
I'll take some pics tomorrow morning, and after it darkens up. Should have done that this morning lol my bad.
 
JtheFishMan
Member
FreshwaterCole said:
Yeah thats the thing, its completely tan to almost translucent...then looks like she's preggo again! Lol
Yes, I’ve seen when the gravid spot is very pale on my guppies plenty of times. You’ll know when she’s pregnant, when the enlarged belly pairs with the very darkened gravid spot, then you’ll know.
 
emeraldking
Member
A female can show also the gravid spot when she's not pregnant. It's just a more translucent part of the skin. And what JtheFishMan already mentioned, the intensity of the color of the gravid spot may change.
 

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