Feel really horrible: fish in an uncycled tank

HI all! I'm in a tricky situation.

So, I thought I could trust my fiance with all matters aquarium related, seeing as how he has owned multiple tanks both saltwater and fresh. I sought after his advice after finally starting my own. Well, his advice for me was to do the same thing his mother did to her bettas: plop 'em down in a bowl, put marbles at the bottom, and ta-dah! you have aided these once pitiful creatures lives by giving them a weensie bit more swim room!

Something didn't feel right. I'd care for her bettas. I felt bad for them. Always laying at the bottom, lethargic. But they were sweet too, they'd shyly swim up to me and I just loved them. So I researched a bunch about them and as you could probably guess I was mortified. She doesn't seem to care for them and it upsets me so much. We've already had two pass away already and it doesn't phase her at all, she really thinks she is "rescueing" them but I am pretty sure the last fish to die perished because of ammonia poisoning. I tried my best to save him I just maybe didn't do good enough or something.

So, I got my own betta and he was in a 2.5 gallon bowl himself for a bit. But once I educated myself I realized how I was being a terrible fishy parent..and that he had so many other needs! I love my little guy so much, he's so sweet and comes right up to my hand to blow bubbles for me and take his food.

See, my fiance neglected to tell me about the nitrogen cycle and all that. Maybe because since he thinks Primrose (my betta) is a "hardy" labyrinth feeder or something that he didn't need a cycled tank!!!!!

So here I am, with poor advice from my fiance, poor advice from our most trusted local fish store who have always been kind to us, but it the end they were not educating him or I or don't have it all together for minimum requirements for fish.

PrI'm has moved from his gross 2.5 gal bowl and is now unhappily situated in a 5 gal with some roomates: African Dwarf Frog, Apple (?) Snail, Bamboo shrimp. I'm worried about Primrose because he used to be so active and I think the current which was too strong before I fixed it gave him a big fright. He also gets ed and flares at his reflection in the glass...so I think I'm going to try that rose colored syran wrap method to try to hide his reflections.
Overstocked? Yeah, but they hadn't told us that at the pet store!

So now I am stuck with some creatures who I dearly love and don't want to see die, but their tank is uncycled!!! And before someone asks if I can sell them to my LFS, they don't do returns and all the other LFS in the areas only take saltwater since they are a saltwater only store.

What are my options? I don't want these guys to die, I care for them deeply.

What products do I need to get? Seachem prime, right? and do 25% water changes daily? How can I start my cycle a little easier? any advice or tips would be appreciated. I just wanna be the best pet parent I can be and I feel horrible I let them live in harsh conditions in the first place. ): I'm so glad I found this forum to guide me along.

 

Hi,

Well, for the time being, you'll probably need to do routine water changes until your tank has cycled. 5 gallons is probably over stocked for your current fish but it's not as bad as it could be, shrimp and snails being comparatively low as far as bio load is concerned. You'll want some water conditioner (if you don't already have some for your betta).

Don't worry about him flaring at his reflection. Bettas are very territorial and will flare at any other male (in this case themselves) they see and attempt to fight them. It's completely normal.

 

I keep my bettas in 2.5 gallon pre-fab ponds(indoors). The long, shallow shape gives them much more room than the same volume in a bowl (garden stores often carry them). I've added some plants, shrimp and nerites for extra filtration and cleaning. The long term plan is to connect them all via a filtered waterfall. In the extended meantime, I do a *minimum* 50-75% water change every other day. I test the water before I do the water changes, just to keep an eye on parameters. This system is working well for me, and my guys love their ponds. But, I would recommend doing more than a 25% water change.
Also, you're aware of the labyrinth organ, obviously, but does your betta have a napping spot close to the surface? I've found that a comfy sleeping spot makes all the difference in energy levels.

 

Do you own a test kit? The one most recommended here is the API Freshwater Master test Kit so I would get one right away. Seachem Prime is also good to have to detox those harmful ammonia and nitrites. Daily water changes with Prime and a a bacteria supplement like Seachem Stability should help cycle faster.

Does the tank have a filter and heater?

I'd rehome either the betta or the frog. The tank is too small for both of them and you will have issues feeding the frog as they have poor eyesight and can also mistake the betta's fins as food. I'd call around to other LFS to see if they would take fish donations or post on craigslist.

 

Even if he sometimes bashes against the glass?! I'm very worried about him! Will he eventually get used to it and realize it's him?

What is a good water conditioner ? Would I still need to use it if I don't use my tap water but purified drinking water?

I keep my bettas in 2.5 gallon pre-fab ponds(indoors). The long, shallow shape gives them much more room than the same volume in a bowl (garden stores often carry them). I've added some plants, shrimp and nerites for extra filtration and cleaning. The long term plan is to connect them all via a filtered waterfall. In the extended meantime, I do a *minimum* 50-75% water change every other day. I test the water before I do the water changes, just to keep an eye on parameters. This system is working well for me, and my guys love their ponds. But, I would recommend doing more than a 25% water change.
Also, you're aware of the labyrinth organ, obviously, but does your betta have a napping spot close to the surface? I've found that a comfy sleeping spot makes all the difference in energy levels.

He's got a betta leaf he just ignores. I'm planning to get something that floats around the surface so it would make it easier on him and the frog. I'm planning on adding low-light plants today to hide his reflection so he doesn't go berserk.

Do you own a test kit? The one most recommended here is the API Freshwater Master test Kit so I would get one right away. Seachem Prime is also good to have to detox those harmful ammonia and nitrites. Daily water changes with Prime and a a bacteria supplement like Seachem Stability should help cycle faster.

Does the tank have a filter and heater?

I'd rehome either the betta or the frog. The tank is too small for both of them and you will have issues feeding the frog as they have poor eyesight and can also mistake the betta's fins as food. I'd call around to other LFS to see if they would take fish donations or post on craigslist.

I do indeed own API master kit! Got it, I'll get prime today as well as stability. Do I do a 20% water change daily while also using both prime and stability?
edit: oops I meant 50%

The tank does indeed have a low setting filter so as to not stress PrI'm out. It also has an automatic heater that maintains the temperature around 78-80.

My betta and frog are very chummy with one another. He even sometimes snuggle with the guy, but I can see how it would be an issue. For feeding my frog I use a syringe to place the food directly in front of him and he eats it all in one gulp before little piggy PrI'm can get to it. I have exhausted all of my LFS options already, but I will try craigslist.

 

That's great that you have the kit! Can you post your pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? That would determine how much water changes you should be doing to keep your levels low.

 

That's great that you have the kit! Can you post your pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? That would determine how much water changes you should be doing to keep your levels low.

Yes absolutely! I'll run a test now. I did 2 50% water changes yesterday and it remained at 0.25 ppm. :/ Will prime/stability help with this? I'll be back momentarily with my readings. I'm praying they aren't that bad or my blood pressure is going to shoot through the sky...
edit: I mean the ammonia did oops

 

Yes, prime will detox ammonia + nitrite up to 1ppm for 24 hours.

Can you also test your tap as well?

Haha don't panic. You're doing great.

 

That's great that you have the kit! Can you post your pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? That would determine how much water changes you should be doing to keep your levels low.

Ehh...looks like ammonia is at 0.50 :'( No nitrites. No Nitrates. No cycle!!!

Yes, prime will detox ammonia + nitrite up to 1ppm for 24 hours.

Can you also test your tap as well?

Haha don't panic. You're doing great.

I use purified drinking water, would you like me to test those as well for amonnia, nitrates and nitrites?
So then do I have to use prime everyday then?

 

Oh ok, I wasn't aware you were using that. Is there something wrong with your tap water?

What's the ph of your tank? Prime should take care of that trace of ammonia. Just don't allow the ammonia and nitrites to get above 1. If they do, time for at least a 50% water change.

 

Oh ok, I wasn't aware you were using that. Is there something wrong with your tap water?

What's the ph of your tank? Prime should take care of that trace of ammonia. Just don't allow the ammonia and nitrites to get above 1. If they do, time for at least a 50% water change.

Alright! I got prime today! And I even picked up some stress guard and paraguard, just for whenever it is necessary. I unfortunately could not find any safestart. So what should I do now? Check ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels daily and if ammonia/and or nitrites get above 1.00 ppm do 50% water changes?
Should I be doing smaller water changes even before that ? Let's say, like right now when my ammonia is at 0.50 ppm?

What exactly do I need to do to help start my cycle?

Thanks for all your help!
EDIT: Oops I didn't mean safestart. I actually did get the stability! Lol I got so many products today.

 

If they are only at .50 then the prime should detoxify that. You CAN do more water changes but it will slow dowm your cycle. Only change the water if ammonia gets over 1.0 I definitely recommend you find some TSS or get some Stability, it goes well with Prime.

 

If they are only at .50 then the prime should detoxify that. You CAN do more water changes but it will slow dowm your cycle. Only change the water if ammonia gets over 1.0 I definitely recommend you find some TSS or get some Stability, it goes well with Prime.

Hello! I actually got both seachem prime and stability today. So what you are saying is to not do any water changes today, but add both prime and stability in right now?

 

They didn't have Stability? You could always order that online.

For now, you test daily and anytime ammonia + nitrite are above 1, you do at least a 50% water change. If less than 1, dose Prime for the full volume of your tank size.

No need for stress guard and Paraguard as they're not showing any signs of sickness.

Can you test your ph?

 

They didn't have Stability? You could always order that online.

For now, you test daily and anytime ammonia + nitrite are above 1, you do at least a 50% water change. If less than 1, dose Prime for the full volume of your tank size.

No need for stress guard and Paraguard as they're not showing any signs of sickness.

Can you test your ph?

I actually get did stability. I got these Seachem products: Stability, Prime, Stress Guard, and Paraguard. Sorry, I was a little confused because I got so many things for my little guys I was overwhelmed.

I have added prime and stability today and didn't do a water change.

I also got some live aquatic plants as I heard they will help regulate my cycle.

I think you mentioned my tank was over stocked, I may have found a lfs by me willing to rehome my snail. Would that help my bioload any? What if I could convince them to rehome both the snail and the shrimp? I asked about my ADF but they said they weren't sure on that.

Looks like my pH is 7.0 or 7.2

 

Ok, I didn't see you mention Stability before. How are your water parameters today?

Well, I don't think it's the snail and shrimp that are putting you over. It's having both the betta and the frog.

 

Ok, I didn't see you mention Stability before. How are your water parameters today?

Well, I don't think it's the snail and shrimp that are putting you over. It's having both the betta and the frog.

Ah, I see.

No Nitrates or nitrites, and 0.25 ammonia again.

 

How long have you had them in this tank? With Stability, you should be cycled in about 2 weeks.

Make sure that when you do water changes, you are rinsing the filter media in removed tank water and not tap water in order to not kill off any beneficial bacteria. And you don't want to replace it at all unless it was falling apart.

 

How long have you had them in this tank? With Stability, you should be cycled in about 2 weeks.

Make sure that when you do water changes, you are rinsing the filter media in removed tank water and not tap water in order to not kill off any beneficial bacteria. And you don't want to replace it at all unless it was falling apart.

Thank you for all your help, you've been very informative.
So, should I be doing 25% water changes daily? Is there a certain ammonia amount I should have before I should do my water changes? Got it. I'll rinse it off in tank water during my changes.

Also, should I be using stability everyday?
They've only been in this tank for now...2 days?

 

Thank you for all your help, you've been very informative.
So, should I be doing 25% water changes daily? Is there a certain ammonia amount I should have before I should do my water changes? Got it. I'll rinse it off in tank water during my changes.

Also, should I be using stability everyday?
They've only been in this tank for now...2 days?

Yes only do a water change if ammonia is 1.0 or higher because prime won't detoxify it. Yes you are supposed to use stability every day for a week, I believe that's what the bottle says.

 

Thank you for all your help, you've been very informative.
So, should I be doing 25% water changes daily? Is there a certain ammonia amount I should have before I should do my water changes? Got it. I'll rinse it off in tank water during my changes.

Also, should I be using stability everyday?
They've only been in this tank for now...2 days?

If the total amount of ammonia + nitrite get up to 1ppm or higher, you want to do at least a 50% water change treated with Prime. If they are less than 1, dose Prime for the full volume of your tank size right into the tank.

There should be dosing instructions on the Stability bottle. I believe it's for 7 days but you can dose past that if still not cycled.

 

Thank you for all your help, you've been very informative.
So, should I be doing 25% water changes daily? Is there a certain ammonia amount I should have before I should do my water changes? Got it. I'll rinse it off in tank water during my changes.

Also, should I be using stability everyday?
They've only been in this tank for now...2 days?

The formula given to me was:

Test every day.

If your ammonia result + your nitrite result = more than 1ppm, do a large (50% or more) water change, dose Prime for the entire volume of your tank, then dose Stability according to the directions on the bottle.

If ammonia + nitrite = less than 1ppm, dose Prime for the entire volume of your tank, then dose Stability according to the directions on the bottle. At this time, there is no water change.

You can add the Prime to the water you're adding to the tank, or you can add it directly to the tank before you put in the new water.

I'm concerned that "purified" drinking water has had essential minerals removed. Is there something wrong with your tap water?

Can you test your tap for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH, and post it here, please?

Could you also post the same test results for your tank water, please?

 

The formula given to me was:

Test every day.

If your ammonia result + your nitrite result = more than 1ppm, do a large (50% or more) water change, dose Prime for the entire volume of your tank, then dose Stability according to the directions on the bottle.

If ammonia + nitrite = less than 1ppm, dose Prime for the entire volume of your tank, then dose Stability according to the directions on the bottle. At this time, there is no water change.

You can add the Prime to the water you're adding to the tank, or you can add it directly to the tank before you put in the new water.

I'm concerned that "purified" drinking water has had essential minerals removed. Is there something wrong with your tap water?

Can you test your tap for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH, and post it here, please?

Could you also post the same test results for your tank water, please?

Tap water:
pH: 7.6 or higher
Ammonia: 0.50 ppm
NitrItes: 0 ppm
NitrAtes: 0 ppm

Tank Water:
pH: 6.9
Ammonia: 0.75?/1.00ppm Going to add prime.
NitrItes: 0 ppm
NitrAtes: 0 ppm

 

Good for adding stability! I have silently cycled four tanks with fish in them using live plants and stability. The plants will take the Nitrates out, I never have any, so if you have plants and no nitrates, it doesn't mean the tank isn't cycled, just that your water's in great shape

An african dwarf frog's bioload is about that of a tetra, so teeny. It should be fine with the betta, but depending on what snail you have, they can be really dirty. Your apple snail is probably a mystery snail, and I have one of those, they are poop machines! I put it in my 29 gallon because I was tired of seeing its poop all over the 10 gallon all the time. So if you can re-home the snail, I would do that and keep the frog and betta. If you don't want to re-home anyone, it's time to set up a 10 gallon.

I know some people say you can't keep anything but a betta in a 5 gallon, and while I certainly wouldn't add any other fish, the activity level of the frog and betta should be find in there. You can also find a number of other people who do keep frogs with bettas in 5 gallons, check out the betta fish forum and search tank mates for 5 gallon. A user there called RusselltheShihTzu has had great luck doing just that with 2 and even 3 frogs.

As far as plants go, if you don't have something to help keep them alive, they may struggle (depends on your substrate, lighting, etc.) Research planted tanks.

I've got a betta with 11 ember tetras in a 10 gallon and everyone is doing great. That's been stocked for 3 months now. I just added frogs to my 5.5 gallon with a betta. They're all doing fine aggression-wise, I add stability with every new tank addition.

Filtration 101
I know you'll appreciate it since you want to take the best care of your new aquatic pals!

 

Good for adding stability! I have silently cycled four tanks with fish in them using live plants and stability. The plants will take the Nitrates out, I never have any, so if you have plants and no nitrates, it doesn't mean the tank isn't cycled, just that your water's in great shape

That's good to know.

 

Tap water:
pH: 7.6 or higher
Ammonia: 0.50 ppm
NitrItes: 0 ppm
NitrAtes: 0 ppm

Tank Water:
pH: 6.9
Ammonia: 0.75?/1.00ppm Going to add prime.
NitrItes: 0 ppm
NitrAtes: 0 ppm

I have limited experience, but your tap water looks ok to me.

You can also find a number of other people who do keep frogs with bettas in 5 gallons, check out the betta fish forum and search tank mates for 5 gallon. A user there called RusselltheShihTzu has had great luck doing just that with 2 and even 3 frogs.

Just remember to have a backup plan in case it turns out that yours can't be housed together.

 

Just remember to have a backup plan in case it turns out that yours can't be housed together.

Very true!! Either the frogs or the betta (probably the betta since he's easier to catch) will move to a different 5 gallon if they don't coexist okay.