feeding BBS to angelfish fry

bizaliz3

Quick question....I just got my first shrimp hatchery and my angelfish fry just started free swimming this morning. On Tuesday night I put in some shrimp eggs and in less than 24 hours (yesterday afternoon)they were hatching. So I guess I misjudged the time I had. I knew the fry were 1-2 days away from swimming so I figured I better get started.

So my quick question is this....There are mostly living BBS in the hatchery, but there are also a lot of dead ones that only survived for a day in the hatchery. What happens if some of those dead baby shrimp end up in the tank with the fry? Will that be bad for the fry? if they eat baby shrimp that have been dead for a day? Again, there are mostly living ones in the hatchery....
 

aliray

If the dead ones sink than just try to scoop out the live ones. Does it have an airstone in the shrimp hatchery. If so you could turn it of for a few minutes and see if the dead ones sink. I used to hatch them for feeding guppy fry and I don't remember ever having a problem. That was over 40 plus years ago. Alison
 

bizaliz3

This is what I'm using. It's very basic. I'm not using any air stones or anything. But it actually worked pretty smoothly. After the babies hatch in the black box they are attracted to the light and swim into the cup.



And the mixture of eggs does have salt in it, but since the salt is heavier and stays in the box, the bottle on top is safe to pour directly into the fry tank. (so they say) And right now the cup is full of live BBS, but also dead ones....

 

chromedome52

Personally, I don't like those kind of hatchers, they are not cost effective.

The shrimp die if they are in Fresh water too long. If they haven't started to fungus, they should be perfectly safe to feed. After all, frozen bbs is dead, and still safe to feed to fry!
 

aliray

I used to use a wide mouth glass bottle like a canister type size with an airstone and salt. Probably held a gallon or a little more water. That is a pretty neat little gadget. Alison
 

bizaliz3

Personally, I don't like those kind of hatchers, they are not cost effective.

The shrimp die if they are in Fresh water too long. If they haven't started to fungus, they should be perfectly safe to feed. After all, frozen bbs is dead, and still safe to feed to fry!

I hear you. I have discovered that this shrimpery does not produce a very high number of BBS. It would definitely be in my best interest to make a DIY shrimpery. I have watched a lot of youtube videos with homemade shrimpery set ups. I am sure I could pull it off.

I haven't had much luck with my angelfish fry. Up until this point I have only used the powder fry food and also tried a canned version of freshly hatched BBS. This will be the first time trying LIVE freshly hatched shrimp. I wanted to see if it even would make a difference.

I have 4 GORGEOUS 3 month old babies that survived from my very first batch of angelfish babies. But every batch since has been a fail. And this pair lays eggs every week and a half. The fry always get to the free swimming point and don't last much longer. I am a newbie at breeding angels still, so it has been a lot of trial and error. I have tried breeder boxes and stuff too. I wanted to see if it was the parents eating them or not. So I put half of them in a breeder box and half were left with mom and dad. They all slowly died off from both locations.

This time around I have a perfect grow out tank ready to go, the water parameters are flawless and I will be feeding freshly hatched BBS to the fry. I expect to have a more successful spawn...but we'll have to wait and see!! If I find that the BBS make a significant difference, I will look into putting together a DIY shrimpery.

Well I don't see any fungus on the dead ones yet....but I couldnt' feed them to the babies this morning because I had to get my daughter to school and get to work. There were only a few babies straying from their leaf, so they really weren't ready to be fed anyway. So when I get home I hope there are still some live BBS in the hatchery and I hope the dead ones have not tainted the water or fungused over in any way. I really want my new angel fry to get some fresh food!!
 

Sinibotia

I can vouch for DIY shrimperys. All I use for brine shrimp is a turkey baster (you can also use airline tubing), a plastic cup, cofee filters, rubber bands, a 2 liter soda bottle, aquarium salt, epsom salt, and an air pump.

Cut the soda bottle approximately in half, put the top of the bottle inside the bottom of the bottle. Fill the top of the bottle with water, 2 tablespoons of salt, and half a teaspoon of epsom salt. Then add your brine shrimp eggs, put the air stone in the bottom where the cap is, and you're all set. You can use a turkey baster or airline tubing to suck up the brine shrimp. Then rubber band a coffee filter over a plastic cup, put the brine shrimp into it, and then run some tap to rinse them.

Using the above method I've got around 200 angelfish just reaching juvenile size and around 400 angelfish fry from another spawn with very high survival rates.

To make your BBS go farther, mix in some hikarI first bites with the filtered-out shrimp and add them together.

Hope this helps.

That's what it looks like. I forgot to mention a desk lamp also helps because light is required for bbs to hatch.

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bizaliz3

Using the above method I've got around 200 angelfish just reaching juvenile size and around 400 angelfish fry from another spawn with very high survival rates.

How big of a tank do you use for 200 or 400 fry?

I do have hikarI first bites on hand, that is what I was using before. So I will try a little of both this time around.
 

Sinibotia

How big of a tank do you use for 200 or 400 fry?

I do have hikarI first bites on hand, that is what I was using before. So I will try a little of both this time around.

Right now I have them both in separate 15 gallon bins with about 10 gallons of water in them. Very soon the 200 juveniles will get moved into a 55 gallon, where I'll raise them until they're big enough to sell.

I've found my fry have no interest in first bites, but if I mix it with baby brine shrimp then they eat it in their little feeding frenzy.
 

bizaliz3

Right now I have them both in separate 15 gallon bins with about 10 gallons of water in them. Very soon the 200 juveniles will get moved into a 55 gallon, where I'll raise them until they're big enough to sell.

I've found my fry have no interest in first bites, but if I mix it with baby brine shrimp then they eat it in their little feeding frenzy.

I just had a chance to stop home on my lunch break. This morning, as I said, only a couple babies were straying from their leaf. But now they are all out and about swimming in a cloud. So I decided to give them the live BBS that I had available for them. They didn't touch them. Are they not ready to eat yet? I was very surprised...I was hoping to finally see my angelfish fry EAT! uggh

I started another batch of BBS. They should be ready tomorrow based on the speed of the last batch. Maybe my fry will be more hungry by then? Since I have no more live BBS in the mean time, I will try giving them some first bites as a tide over. Assuming they need/want it.....

Do you think I should move them to their perfectly cycled 10 gallon right away? Because I haven't had luck keeping them alive long in the big tank with their parents. The four 3 month old babies that I have were moved to a grow out tank after being free swimming for 8 days. I had a couple hundred of them, but by day 8 I was down to 13. I moved them to a grow out tank and in the long run only 4 made it. But they are so big and beautiful and healthy. So that's nice. Should I just move the babies now and get it over with?
 

Sinibotia

Baby angelfish don't need to eat until 24 hours after free swimming so I wouldn't worry about your fry not eating yet.

Out of curiosity what kind of filter do you use in the adult and growout tanks?

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bizaliz3

Baby angelfish don't need to eat until 24 hours after free swimming so I wouldn't worry about your fry not eating yet.

Out of curiosity what kind of filter do you use in the adult and growout tanks?

Sent from my XT830C using Fish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum mobile app

I wondered about that!!!! LOL well that's good. Maybe tomorrow they will have the feeding frenzy I so desperately want to see!

The adult tank has a large sponge filter and a marineland HOB filter. I have a sponge on the intake of the HOB filter. I also turn that filter off when trying to feed the fry. I am sure the current from the HOB isn't helping the fry any, is it?

The grow out tank that my three month old babies grew up in is a 15 gallon tall aquarium with a fluval/aquaclear HOB filter. The current on that one isn't as strong as the one on the big tank AND being that it is a tall tank, it didn't bother the babies. Those 4 babies still live in that tank. They are about dime sized, maybe nickel sized.

The grow out tank I have prepared for this new batch is a standard rectangular 10 gallon. I have a sponge filter in that one and a small marineland HOB filter...it isn't a tall tank like the other grow out, so the current from the HOB could cause a problem maybe? What do you think is the best set up for this one? And do you think I should just go ahead and move the babies now? Or move some of them?
 

Sinibotia

OK, just wanted to make sure your fry weren't getting chewed up by the filter, that would be a simple explanation! I doubt that filter current would be the issue.

Why not try a good old fashioned experiment? Split the fry between the growout and the parents and see how that affects things.

In my growout tanks I just use a single sponge filter. I actually run both growout tanks' filters and two brine shrimp hatcheries on a single small two-output pump so it doesn't even have to be a strong sponge filter.

How often do you do water changes with your fry?

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bizaliz3

OK, just wanted to make sure your fry weren't getting chewed up by the filter, that would be a simple explanation! I doubt that filter current would be the issue.

Why not try a good old fashioned experiment? Split the fry between the growout and the parents and see how that affects things.

In my growout tanks I just use a single sponge filter. I actually run both growout tanks' filters and two brine shrimp hatcheries on a single small two-output pump so it doesn't even have to be a strong sponge filter.

How often do you do water changes with your fry?

Sent from my XT830C using Fish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum mobile app

I sort of tried that experiment with a previous batch. I had half of them with the parents and half in a HOB breeder box. That box shared the same water as the tank. The ones in the box lasted about a week longer than the ones in the tank. That's it.

I think my biggest issue might be higher nitrates in the parents tank. I do weekly water changes, the tank only has the parents in it, so it isn't over stocked and I don't overfeed. But still struggle with nitrates around 40.(ammonia and nitrites at a perfect zero) Possibly that is why the only survivors were those first ones that were moved to a new tank. But still only 4 of those 13 made it.....

With that being said though, I am feeling very confident about this batch. They are going to have a new tank with perfect water conditions and they will grow up on LIVE BBS!! I'm crossing my fingers so hard right now!

I still might try an experiment like you said to determine if it is the diet that makes all the difference. Half the babies I could move to the 10 gallon, the other half stay with the parents. Then, based on how the babies in the parents tank do, I can determine if it is the water causing the fry to die off, or if it is the diet, or maybe a little of both.....

either way....do you think it is safe to move them now? The only time I moved angelfish fry to a new tank was that first batch and they had been swimming for a week before I did it. If I do it now, these guys will have only been free swimming for less than a day....
 

Sinibotia

I can't say for sure. I always remove the eggs before they're even wigglers. But you should be ok to move them, just try to keep them in water. When I switched my fry from a 3 gallon hatching bin to one of the 15 gallons I just put the 3 gallon inside the 15 and filled it until the fry could swim out and then inverted the 3 to make sure everyone left.

I suspect the nitrate may have been your bigger issue though. I do 50% no less than every 3 days on these tanks, preferably daily. Ideally nitrate should never go above 10, definitely not above 20 for fry. Even fry that survive in no good water are more likely to have weird and nasty defects and then you have to cull. The only one happy then is whoever gets to eat the culls.
 

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