Fed up with the time it takes to do water changes.

  1. Coradee Moderator Moderator Member

  2. matsungit Well Known Member Member

    These are uncycled tanks that's why they have to do complete water changes. It's necessary in a commercial setting with very high fish turnover rates. They want to quickly eliminate any diseases and pathogens in the water for the next shipment. As you may have noticed they do not have any decorations or substrate. If you will implement something like this 50% water changes will do. You will need a water tank reservoir and pump if you premix the water. It's doable and a lot of people have invested in it. Especially those who own very large tanks. My co-worker has a 1200gal SW wall aquarium and everything is hard plumbed.

  3. 1971roadrunner Well Known Member Member

    I don't think the young family living down stairs from me (or the legal community in general) would appreciate this style of WC-ing. Funny vid. though :). I think I'll stick to my anaerobic BB, plants and algae to help cut down on my WC's and help keep my param's in check-thanks anyway Cora.
  4. atc84 Well Known Member Member

    anaerobic bacteria is generally in the substrate where their is no oxygen. In the water column it is primarily aerobic bacteria, where the majority of aerobic bacteria is.

  5. 1971roadrunner Well Known Member Member

    Hmm...? I colonize the anaerobic in the ceramic media for FW. Unless you get a SW style deep sand bed in a FW for an anoxic zone you would have a very difficult time attaining the desired affect. The aerobic BB colonize on different medias, not in the water column itself which is why we have high flow filters with media.
  6. atc84 Well Known Member Member

    "Flow provides constant oxygen rich water into the filter and prevents the filter from becoming anaerobic."

    "Second remarkable fact is that there are a lot of anaerobic bacteria. Not as many as aerobic but still. Most people think their filter runs purely on aerobic bacteria and some even setup a anaerobic filter but in every filter, almost half of the bacteria is anaerobic!"

    interesting stuff, i guess i didn't specify what i meant by water column.
  7. 1971roadrunner Well Known Member Member

    On the oxygen rich exterior of the media within the filter is where aerobic thrives and within the media (which is very low oxygen) is where the anaerobic thrive. If your running proper ceramics in a filter then you would have an environment to colonize both but with sponge material (or similar) without a low oxygen environment it would not be possible. The right media would be necessary for both BB's within the filter. The substrate is what I'm wondering about however in your other post?

  8. atc84 Well Known Member Member

    The substrate becomes colonized by anaerobic bacteria when oxygen is no longet present. This occurs when the substrate is too deep, lack of flow, and an increase in dying organic matter, since decomposition uses oxygen. When there is no oxygen for decomposition, anaerobic bacteria colonizes and takes over the process with negative effects, such as releasing a sulfuric compound that kills plant roots and can change the color of white sand.
  9. matsungit Well Known Member Member

    Deep sand beds are largely debatable. Although in theory hydrogen sulfide is harmful to fish I have yet to see any negative effects of a well kept DSB (simply not to disturb it too much). I also have yet to see a plant die from root damage in a DSB. In my experience it's the opposite, my plants thrive in it. If you think about it, all substrate in nature operate like deep sand beds.

    Deep sand beds do not change color. It's just the side that turns color because of light bouncing from the glass and organisms reacting to it. A true DSB is clean. If you have a dirty DSB either you are disturbing it too much or it hasn't matured yet which takes a couple of months.
  10. Coradee Moderator Moderator Member

    I didn't mean for this to be a serious thread, just found the video & found it quite funny in a way.

  11. 1971roadrunner Well Known Member Member

    I'm quite familiar with deep sand beds for SW tanks-ANOXIC (though don't currently have one in my fowlr or sump system) but can't speak for FW dirtied or mud bottoms, never had the interest in FW plants enough to investigate. I have a planted FW tank and planted refugium but never had the need to go that far to get my desired results. I'll leave it at that other than to say the anaerobic would be in the substrate due to poor upkeep. I was originally discussing the positive attributes of anaerobic in removing nitrates (to decrease WC's) NOT the negative effects.
  12. atc84 Well Known Member Member

    Well, i have to disagree with some points you made. When i first started my 29 gallon, i had a HOB filter which would not get any O2 to the substrate level (I'll explain this later). With my very fine 1 inch sand above my 1 inch of mineralized soil, my substrate became quite anaerobic. I knew this because my plant roots were black and thin, and hardly growing.

    As i poked the substrate to release the gasses, i realized it wasn't worth it since my white sand had turned dark blue under the very top layer. Instead i got rid of my filter and set it up with a small spraybar attached powerhead which created a huge increase of flow. My plants grew better, and my sand slowly changed color. No need for filtration anyways, since mechanical was just taking away nitrogen from my plants, and bio and chem i didn't need because of plants.

    I'm not talking about a DSB, I'm referring all my information to the walstad wethod of low-tech planted aquariums, which details why you shouldn't have a deep sand bed. You are dosing with root tabs, correct?
  13. matsungit Well Known Member Member

    1 or 2 inches is hardly anaerobic, all you will get is bad dirt accumulation. You need 4-6 inches deep for a healthy anaerobic population. The reason for this is that a lot of oxygen and water flow will still reach 1-2" of even the finest sand.
  14. atc84 Well Known Member Member

    well apparently not, because my sand was definitely anaerobic. I don't want it to be either, i want the exact opposite.
  15. matsungit Well Known Member Member

    The definition of anaerobic is an oxygen depleted environment. You simply cannot achieve that with a 2" substrate. What you got was rotting dirt which were being processed aerobically.
  16. 1971roadrunner Well Known Member Member

    Sorry to interrupt but matsungit or whom ever else. IMO a must read is "Sand Bed Secrets-The Common Sense Way to Biological Filtration" by Ron Shimek. This book explains a lot of what matsungit and myself are discussing :).
  17. matsungit Well Known Member Member

    Will do. Thanks!
  18. atc84 Well Known Member Member

    Ok well unless that book shares some aquatic secret myself and other highly respected aquarists don't know, hydrogen sulfide is a gas that is only produced in an environment that lacks oxygen. This couldn't be more obviously present in my tank as cascades of bubbles rose and smelled like sewage from my substrate. Again, I'm not referring to sand beds as a means for filtration as the book says in the title. Maybe take a look around the web on dirted tanks and maybe even the walstad method to see what I mean :)
  19. Lucy Moderator Moderator Member

    Hey guys...while your discussion is interesting (really really interesting!) it is quite off topic.

    I'd be happy to move it to a thread of it's own if you'd like.
    Coradee if that would work at my house I'd do it!
    (Except for taking levels so low the fish have to lie on their side).
    I'd also change it to a spray bar for water return.