Fast Fishless Cycle.

Shawn3210

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Thunder_o_b

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Shawn3210 said:
Do I need to add stability weekly? Or just when I do a big water change during the cycle?
I can not believe I left that out. Some do the printed amount daily after the initial dose. others do the large amount at the water change. I did the daily.

Getting old I guess
 

Rob Shannon

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WhoKnows said:
Just to be the heretic, I'll relate what has worked best for me in cycling tanks, and I do it without any additives.

I've cycled dozens of tanks in my life, and always used cheap goldfish from the LFS. I'd set up my tanks, let them run a couple days, then put in a goldfish (10 gallon tanks). I'd feed normally, then start checking the water. Ammonia would show up in a couple days, then I'd start doing a 25% water change every other day. In one to two weeks, nitrites would show up, and ammonia would begin to drop. Nothing more than regular feeding and 25% water changes every other day. After three to four weeks, ammonia would be about gone, nitrites would be high, and nitrates would show up. The tanks were fully cycled in five to six weeks. Easy, reliable, just stick the fish in, monitor the water for fun, and moderate water changes every other day.

I know there are people who have used the cycle starters successfully, like the OP. But to be honest it looks so complicated. If you miss a step you're right back where you started. I believe that's why almost everyone who pulls their hair out trying like crazy to get a cycle started and having no luck are people who are using cycle starters, safe start, stability, etc. I advocate a simple routine and letting nature take its course.

For the record, I'd take the goldfish back to the LFS when I was done, and they were amazed at how much size they'd put on. It didn't seem to harm the fish at all.

Just my opinion.
Ammonia is toxic to fish. I’m glad to hear it survived. Living in a high ammonia environment would be live living in a city with heavy smog. Fishless cycling might take more time and diligence but it’s kinder to our underwater friends.
 
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Thunder_o_b

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Rob Shannon said:
Ammonia is toxic to fish. I’m glad to hear it survived. Living in a high ammonia environment would be live living in a city with heavy smog. Fishless cycling might take more time and diligence but it’s kinder to our underwater friends.
should only take 7-12 days. Generally 7 or so.
 

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IMO, When you're first starting out the exact amount ammonia is not that important. The tank will start to cycle.

The important thing in my mind is once you start to see nitrites, that you don't kill off the nitrate forming bacteria with too much ammonia.

You can keep feeding that tank 8 PPM of ammonia and it'll eventually make nitrites like crazy, but no nitrates.

At that point you want to back off the amonia 90% or you're going to stall the cycle.

People who keep the ammonia constantly down to one or two PPM don't seem to have this trouble.

Slow and steady is always better in my imagination.

Most of the evils perpetrated by fish keepers are related to impatience, and this problem has only increased throughout the years.

Nowadays people want to take something home, unbox it, plug it in and be entertained and the whole process shouldn't take more than an hour.

If you tell people that there is 30 to 60 days of preparation involved before they can have a really healthy and beautiful fish tank in their living room, they will settle for a fast tank that gets sick quickly because it wasn't prepared.
 
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Thunder_o_b

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Ulu said:
IMO, When you're first starting out the exact amount ammonia is not that important. The tank will start to cycle.

The important thing in my mind is once you start to see nitrites, that you don't kill off the nitrate forming bacteria with too much ammonia.

You can keep feeding that tank 8 PPM of ammonia and it'll eventually make nitrites like crazy, but no nitrates.

At that point you want to back off the amonia 90% or you're going to stall the cycle.

People who keep the ammonia constantly down to one or two PPM don't seem to have this trouble.

Slow and steady is always better in my imagination.

Most of the evils perpetrated by fish keepers are related to impatience, and this problem has only increased throughout the years.

Nowadays people want to take something home, unbox it, plug it in and be entertained and the whole process shouldn't take more than an hour.

If you tell people that there is 30 to 60 days of preparation involved before they can have a really healthy and beautiful fish tank in their living room, they will settle for a fast tank that gets sick quickly because it wasn't prepared.
Your feed back is welcome, but it should never take more then 7-12 days for a fishless cycle.
Stalling the cycle with this method does not happen.

I will put this way, if Ms rose is not successful using this method I will ask the mods to remove this post and will never bring it up again. But I know it works as I have used it as have many other former members.

***Mod note***
MsRose's cycling thread is here:
Fishless Cycle With Ammonia
 

Ulu

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Thunder_o_b said:
Your feed back is welcome, but it should never take more then 7-12 days for a fishless cycle.
Stalling the cycle with this method does not happen.

I will put this way, if Ms rose is not successful using this method I will ask the mods to remove this post and will never bring it up again. But I know it works as I have used it as have many other former members.
I'm sorry Thunder.

I was trying to state my opinion & clearly I have gone off on a rant and offended you.

Best of luck.
 
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Thunder_o_b

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Ulu said:
I'm sorry Thunder.

I was trying to state my opinion & clearly I have gone off on a rant and offended you.

Best of luck.
No problem here, we are good
 

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Huh. I have never actually cycled a tank without fish. My large 55 coming up I will be using this method.

Will post results when this happens.
 
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Thunder_o_b

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Lunnietic said:
Huh. I have never actually cycled a tank without fish. My large 55 coming up I will be using this method.

Will post results when this happens.
Please do. And be sure to post any issues that you may have. We are all here to learn.
 

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Thunder_o_b said:
I was asked to post my reply to another thread as its own thread.

This is a method that I and past members have used many times.

I welcome critical feed back but please be prepared to verify your critique.

1. The Ph must be above 7.0 as you get below 7.0 ammonia turns to ammonium and becomes harder and harder for the first stage bacteria to convert to nitrite.

2. The water temp needs to be high, in the range of 83 degrees Fahrenheit. Because the warmer the water is the less O2 it holds in suspension, it is necessary to have very vigorous aeration to facilitate the gas exchange. The warmer water speeds up the activity of the bacteria.

3. Add clear ammonia to the range of 12 PPM. It can be more or a bit less. Test the water at least once a day and keep the ammonia at this level.

4. After the clear ammonia has been added on the first day add this Seachem - Stability Add 2 to 3x what the bottle says to use. Check the expiration date to be sure it is fresh. You will add this every day. Get a large bottle. And be sure to shake it.

5. Be sure to have the full filtration that you will need for a fully stocked aquarium up and running from day one. I recommend 10x the water column or greater.

6. Do not do a water change yet, the secondary bacteria needs the nitrites to convert to nitrates.
Watch the readings. When you start to see nitrates stop adding ammonia. When the ammonia and nitrites hit 0-0 PPM do a large water change (50%-70%) and start from the beginning one more time. When the readings once again read 0-0-PPM with nitrates the aquarium is ready to fully stock. The bacteria will die back to match the needs of the stock. But you need to move fast. Bacteria expands and contracts rapidly in relation to the food (ammonia, nitrite) available. If you wait too long the bacteria will die back, and you will have an unicycle aquarium. So time this carefully.

I offer my sincere and best wishes to all of you. It is a lot of work and there is no room for skipping steps. But if done properly you should have a fully cycled aquarium in less than two weeks.

EDIT: Just to be on the safe side add stability per the directions on the bottle after the fish are added.

EDIT#2: Have the aquarium completely setup the way you want it to be before you start this. I have been told that you can do this with plants in but I have not done this so I can not say for sure that is the case.

Hi there Thunder!

I hope you're doing well!
I was on your "Fast Fishless Cycle" thread (big fan) and I have 3 questions:

1. You said: "....to convert to nitrates. Watch the readings. When you start to see >nitrAtes< stop adding ammonia.". I am wondering whether or not "nitrAtes" is actually what you meant in that part of your tutorial, or whether you meant >nitrItes<? Should we stop dosing ammonia when we see >nitrAtes< or >nitrItes<?

2. Should we dose the original 12ppm Ammonia every day until the event in question 1.?

3. After the cycle if we can't stock the aquarium right away can we dose around 4ppm of Ammonia EVERY day until we can stock it? What if we can't stock it fully right away?

Thanks a ton for your time! I really appreciate your kind input on this forum!!
 
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Thunder_o_b

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tanya9oceana said:
Hi there Thunder!

I hope you're doing well!
I was on your "Fast Fishless Cycle" thread (big fan) and I have 3 questions:

1. You said: "....to convert to nitrates. Watch the readings. When you start to see >nitrAtes< stop adding ammonia.". I am wondering whether or not "nitrAtes" is actually what you meant in that part of your tutorial, or whether you meant >nitrItes<? Should we stop dosing ammonia when we see >nitrAtes< or >nitrItes<?

2. Should we dose the original 12ppm Ammonia every day until the event in question 1.?

3. After the cycle if we can't stock the aquarium right away can we dose around 4ppm of Ammonia EVERY day until we can stock it? What if we can't stock it fully right away?

Thanks a ton for your time! I really appreciate your kind input on this forum!!
Sorry for the late reply. I have not been to the forum in several months. Issues.

but to your question Nitrates because the secondary bacteria is now up and running. Yes, add ammonia until you can add fish But I would 2 PPM would be good.
 

tanya9oceana

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Thunder_o_b said:
Sorry for the late reply. I have not been to the forum in several months. Issues.

but to your question Nitrates because the secondary bacteria is now up and running. Yes, add ammonia until you can add fish But I would 2 PPM would be good.
Hey there @Thunder! Thanks a ton for your reply and that is absolutely not a problem, I hope those issues get solved soon

There was one question you missed and then I'm clear on all, thanks again!

Here is the question:

2. Should we dose the original 12ppm Ammonia every day until we see the nitrAtes? (When cycling is still going)
 
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Thunder_o_b

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tanya9oceana said:
Hey there @Thunder! Thanks a ton for your reply and that is absolutely not a problem, I hope those issues get solved soon

There was one question you missed and then I'm clear on all, thanks again!

Here is the question:

2. Should we dose the original 12ppm Ammonia every day until we see the nitrAtes? (When cycling is still going)
That is what I did.
 

tanya9oceana

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Thunder_o_b said:
That is what I did.
One of my questions was aimed at Ammonia input 'DURING cycling' though I was unclear whether or not it should be 12ppm until we start seeing nitrates.

You explained the Ammonia input 'after successful cycle' part. (which was to add 2ppm ammonia until adding fish)
 

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Thunder_o_b said:
That is what I did.
Thunder? Please reply, I would really like to know this.
 

Ulu

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Some of this may depend on whether you intend to fully stock tank once it is cycled.

You can keep putting in 12 PPM, but when you quit you must put in fish that can produce 12 PPM or some of your bacteria will die off.

That's not necessarily bad.
Your bacterial Colony must be balanced by the fish colony, and absent any unusual circumstances it naturally will.
 

tanya9oceana

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Thanks for the reply Ulu!

Alright, that makes sense! So during the whole cycling process (NOT when it is done already and you're ready to add fish to) you are supposed to add 12ppm Ammonia daily (until you see nitrAtes)?

Then when the cycle has completed (and you are ready to add fish) you will either do 2ppm Ammonia daily or still 12ppm daily until you actually add the fish?
 

Ulu

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You can keep adding 12ppm

2ppm keeps the tank on "idle speed"

12ppm keeps it ready for immediate population.
 
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