Fancy Goldfish with ich and fin rot? Medication advice needed

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Royal pleco

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Hello... I just started a fancy goldfish tank about a week ago and cycled it with Tetra safe start (38 gallons) 3 fish... One of them got ich, and I treated it with API "Super Ich Cure" this did not really fo anything... and for the past couple of days my fish's fins have began to rot away (fin rot I guess) I was told to try Rid-ich which battles both the ich and fin rot (my fish also has a new fungus growing on his fancy head) I pannicked and used meds which I think are a little harsh, and can ruin my biologicala filtration. I am only a day into treating with rid-ich, but here are some pictures of his/her disease... ShouldI do a water change.. and wait 2 days and give him what I think are better meds.. aquarisol and melafix? My real question is how long should wait, and how much water do I need to do a water change to start on a 3rd diff type of meds? maybe Ill give ridich a try for a week? Thank you..



 

Jaysee

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I'm sorry, but all the meds in the world won;t fix the problem. Water quality is the problem - I don't think the TSS worked.
 
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Royal pleco

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If it is the water quality... How do I go about fixing that up with fish in the tank? What would you do?
 
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Royal pleco

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I just got off the phone with a LFS, the guy was somewhat knowledgable.. he said do littlle water changes every other day, to clear the tank of the meds..then add my tetra safestart and let the tank cycle again. How does this sound?
 

Jaysee

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IMO you should be doing large daily waterchanges - 50% everyday. That will correct the water quality issue and will also do wonders to help your fish recover. After your fish are better, then you can try the TSS again.
 

Meenu

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Hi, Royal Pleco! If I haven't said so already, welcome to Fishlore.

Can you clear up how big your tank is? Your first post seems to indicate that it is 38 gallons, but when I read your aquarium information, it says 10 gallon?

Also, if you have a test kit, could you please post your readings for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates? If you don't already have one, API master kit with the liquid tests is really good. Most members on this site use it. Test strips aren't accurate, so I wouldn't bother with those.

I agree with Jaysee that water quality is likely causing problems for your fish. Also, if you have 3 goldfish in a 10 gallon tank, overcrowding and a buildup of ammonia may be causing stress, which will lead to fish disease.

I would recommend large daily water changes as well. I would also use a water conditioner called Prime, which will detoxify ammonia and nitrites, which are dangerous to fish, for 24 hours at a time.
 
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Royal pleco

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Thank you for your advice... I am about to a do a water change, I just bought the API liquid test kit. and I have 2 tanks, a 10 and a 38 g. The problem is in the 38 gallon fancy goldfish tank. I was doing 25 % water changes every other day.(only did it for 2 days).but extreme times call for extreme measures sometimes.. I don't know if I can do a 50% water change. I'm stopping the harsh meds and am going to get my water right, off to do a test, maybe it is right.. I'll be back.. again thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.
 

Meenu

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water test before the water change/ Post your results when you have them, and we'll see if we can help further.
 
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Royal pleco

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Here are the test results........
Ammonia .5ppm

Nitrite .25ppm

Nitrate 10-15ppm

PH 7.6

Thanks people for the help, I hope this can shed some light on my problems.

How does this sound? I'm going to to a 25% water change in light of my ammonia being high. I'm going to discontinue the rid-ich, and wait for my ammonia and nitrite go down to 0 and use a less harsh product called Aquarisol which I'm getting mailed to me today, and then maybe melafix for the fungus and fin rot. NOT both meds at the same time though)
If this is not logical or good thinking please tell me.. Thanks again
 

lanlesnee

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I know a lot here will disagree, but I use salt and only salt to clear ich and fin rot on my goldfish tanks. I use marine salt (instant ocean)
I ususally start with 2 tablespoons per 5 gallons and go up if they don't respond to that.
I've cured 3 count's of ich and 1 count of fin rot this way. (brought a lot of sick goldfish the past year-needless to say I don't buy from this place anymore)
I've lost 2 goldfish out of 15 using this method. No the survivors are not in one tank.
As soon as they are cured. I remove the salt.

Ive lost an entire 125 gallon goldfish tank to ich when I tried the store brought meds.
 

Jaysee

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Adding salt to an uncycled tank isnt going to fix anything.
 
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Royal pleco

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What else could I be doing to help cycle the tank while 3, 4 inch fancy goldfish are in there?
 

Jaysee

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Royal pleco said:
What else could I be doing to help cycle the tank while 3, 4 inch fancy goldfish are in there?
I suspect the 3 fish you have overwhelmed the TSS when you used it.

3 goldfish is really too many for a 38. If you cannot give up at least 1 (I think 2 should go back), then you ought to try doubling the TSS dose when you try again after you get the fin rot under control.
 

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I know there is much controversy on Ich and how to treat it but I used Rid-Ich and it DID work.

I would follow the instructions on the bottle for the Rid-Ich, which requires daily water changes of 25%. Since you are still cycling I would do 50% like Jaysee said. My tank was cycled but I did this to make sure the water was perfect. I also put the temperature up to 85 to speed up the life cycle of the ICH. Also, before you put the medicine in make sure to take your carbon out. Also, the medicine did NOT affect my cycle, but definitely keep testing your water.

I also got a garlic product to put in the water to help their immune system, it's called Xtreme Garlic by Kent. I found it at a LFS but Petco carries it. It's mighty pricey but it works and I wasn't able to find garlic guard anywhere near me. I did lose some fish but not all... and now the Ich is completely gone. Make sure to do the full dosage and continue treatment for 3 days after you no longer see Ich on your fish. I hope that helps.
 

Meenu

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Hmm, Gremlin, one of our resident goldie experts, actually recommends medicating goldfish with ich, but I don't remember if she recs Ich Attach or Rid Ich.

But I do believe that you underlying issue is the water quality, and that has to be fixed.
 

yukoandk

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Hello and sorry to hear you're having a difficult time with your goldfish tank. I just went through an ich infestation in mine for the first time. I used a combination of ParaGurd, salt and high temperature of 82F.

Rid-Ich contains formaldehyde and malachite green both of which are effective for ich but could be harrash on your fish and biological filter as you suspect. Have you had a chance to read up on the life cycle of ich and how they work? Here's one article: https://www.fishlore.com/Articles/CuringIch.htm. The visible sign of ich--white specks--will not go away in a day or two, but at warmer temperature, their life cycle is faster and shorter. They drop off the host at the end of their life cycle and produce free swimming offsprings looking for a host to attach to. The goal is to kill these free swimming organisms before they grab a hold on your fish to re-infest.

Here's what I would do:

a) Daily water change of 50%, with through vacuuming of gravel if you have gravel.
This will lower the concentration of ammonia and nitrite, improving water quality. Also reduces the number of ich organisms present in the tank, theoretically lessening the chance of re-infestation by half. Use of conditioner such as Prime or AmQuel+ will detox ammonia and nitrite for 24 hours.

b) Raise the tempreture to at least upper 70s.
Fasten the life cycle of ich--"it takes at least 3 days at 80F", longer at lower tempreture. Wamer water will assist in fish metabolism.

c) Increase airation, by A LOT.
Add air stones, add a pump with venturi, let your return filter water splash and aggitate the water surface. Warmer water holds less oxygen, and your fish's ability to breath is already compromised by ich and meds causing a great deal of stress.

d) Add and maintain salt concentration of 1% (1 tea spoon per 1 gallon.)
Salt must be replenished after a water change to keep the concentration--if 50% or 19 gal of water is changed, add 19 tea spoon of salt to the new water. Helps with oxygen level and nitrite toxicity. Increases slime coat on fish building resistance toward ich trying to attach. Also helps with bacterial and fungal infections. Ich does not like salt.

e) Add Rid-ich daily at a half dosage after water change.
Ensure eradication of ich. Depending on your fish's condition, you may need to decrease the dosage to a third or a quarter. If you can dose the meds at the concentration your fish can tolerate, (note they will act very distressed at the hight of infestation regardless, meds or not) I think it's better to have this infestation dealt with in the fastest and surest manner possible. The meds should also help with bacterial/fungal infections which I suspect will be more stubborn and problematic than ich to cure. First get rid of ich, then you will have to build your biological filter, and figure out how to heal your fish from their poor condition.

Right, take out carbon if you have it in your filter. Given you raise the temp to 80F, keep up with this treatment for 5 days after all the specks drop off your fish. I don't think Melafix and Pimafix will help in this situation, good to have on hand though. Sorry that SafeStart didn't work for you--but based on your test reading, may be it worked a half way--you may want to give it another try after this ich episode. As someone else mentioned, your bio load is pretty heavy and that's a difficult situation to deal with especially in a brand new set up. Ich will pass with a proper treatment. What you will need to think about is how to help your fish get better from the subsequent infections they're suffering, and how to build a good living environment for them so they are not susceptible to such diseases. Good luck and keep us posted!
 
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