Fancy goldfish newbie, fish in cycle. Help please!

Themouse

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Hi everyone :] I've recently become the proud owner of two fancy goldfish: a black moor and an oranda, about 2.5 inches? (not totally sure but they're smaller) They also live with 4 rosy minnows.

Tank is 40G breeder.
Using prime
Also aquarium salt (added 5 tablespoons initially when I set up tank)
sand substrate
Have an air pump
Using tetra IQ 40 internal filter (I know....but I thought it would be ok for now since they're so small?) Also using some extra carbon media and sponge inside it.

The tank has been cycling for about 2 weeks. Basically I'm new to the hobby and I want to make sure I'm doing things right. I've been doing 25% water changes every other day/every couple days. Is that too much too often ? I'm going by the liquid API tests but I'm still learning how to read them, so I'm a bit paranoid. Last night when I tested, I couldn't tell if my ammonia was .25, .5, or 1 PPM (I know...quite the difference lol) so I did around a 50% change.

It's the next day and here are the testing results:

Ammonia: 0? .25?
Ph: ~7.6
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
also temp: 72 F

This makes me feel like I *am* doing it too often but like I said...paranoid...

Left to right: ammonia, ph, nitrite, nitrate

158895578444399387400.jpg

ammonia at a different angle. What do you think this reading is?
15889559046892112574563.jpg

Okay, and finally some pics of the babies
20200501_174426(0).jpg20200501_174424(0).jpgScreenshot_20200502-224931.jpg
Screenshot_20200502-225206.jpgScreenshot_20200502-225100.jpg

I know the pics aren't great quality but if you can tell, the oranda, Moon, has a white "bump" under her(?) chin. She had it before I brought her home, too. I asked my co workers about it and they said it was nothing (I work at a pet chain). But I'm not sure. It hasn't gotten any smaller or bigger, and it doesn't seem to bother her. Any idea what it is?? I was looking into carp pox but I don't know if fancy goldfish can get that.

Thanks for reading! Any help would be much appreciated. I love my lil guys.
 

LifeGivesYouLemonOscars

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There some dirty fish to start a cycle with. Dirty i mean the waste they produce probably the worst. I would feed them very sparingly. You're going to get a big ammonia spike with them. I would get some tetra safe start in there asap. I use this to cycle my aquariums takes about 20 days. The more you feed them guys the more ammonia you're making.
 

Val1

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I've started many tanks with fish in them and not "done the cycle." You are not doing too many water changes. I'd keep doing them, watching your ammonia esp every day. While starting out, you could do water changes every day. If the ammonia spikes, do a 50% water change regime.

As for adding Tetra Safe, I've never used it, but there are lots of folks would recommend NOT using it as it is largely ineffective. Feeding sparingly is good advice as you're starting out. You know how the food packages all say "as much food as can be consumed in 3 minutes?" I'd lower that to as much as can be eaten in 1 minute (maybe 4 times a day) and then add up slowly over the next couple of months.

The ammonia looks like it's more .25 to .5 than closer to 0. To me at least. And it can be a pain trying to determine, but I would recommend looking at the color chart under something other than fluorescent, if you're not doing that already.
 

LifeGivesYouLemonOscars

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So you never used tetra safe start but you're going to give advice not to use it because "lots of folks wouldn't recommend it". I on the other hand have used it plenty and it works for me and "other folks" every time. The point of this place is to give advice from people who've been in the situation and actually done what they're giving advice on. If you never used it how can you say it doesn't work?
 

LifeGivesYouLemonOscars

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Jesus 4x a day on a cycle. Are you trying to get this person's fish killed? What ever you do don't listen to this person.
 

flyinGourami

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You aren't doing too many water changes. The ammonia looks to be .5 to me. Once the ammonia hits .5-1 ppm, I would do a water change. Once nitrites go up to 1, I would also do a water change. They can probably tolerate more, but those water changes are going to keep them safer. Also, I would stop using aquarium salt since its unnecessary and if you can't properly measure the salinity that may be an issue.
As for feeding, for the amount of stock you have I think you can feed them regularly without risking too much. Just keep in mind that more feedings equal more water changes.
 

FinalFins

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Hi, welcome to the forum.:)

I suggest getting a bottle of seachem prime, it detoxifies ammonia/nitrite to a combined total of 1ppm.

If i'm reading this correct, you cycled for 2 weeks and only recently added fish? Or are you fish in cycling with the goldfish?
LifeGivesYouLemonOscars said:
Jesus 4x a day on a cycle. Are you trying to get this person's fish killed? What ever you do don't listen to this person.
Curious how this would kill a fish? Also a pretty aggressive way to take someone down.
 

flyinGourami

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LifeGivesYouLemonOscars said:
Jesus 4x a day on a cycle. Are you trying to get this person's fish killed? What ever you do don't listen to this person.
4x a day isn't getting anyones fish killed as long as you do those water changes. I accidentally fed more than that on a fish in cycle without a test kit, I did daily water changes and my fish were fine. Person above offered advice from experience, just like you did.
 

e_watson09

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I really wasn't going to respond to this thread just because I don't have the biggest background with goldies but I do have a lot of experience with cycling tanks and general fish products.

Tetra safe start is a great product but it is most beneficial if you've already started using it before the fish BUT it can still help in this situation as well.

As for feeding, I wouldn't feed these fish that often. Goldies will ALWAYS act hungry and gobble up as much food as you'll give them. So for this reason I believe multiple feedings is not going to be beneficial in this situation. Personally, I feed once a day unless I'm breeding or growing out babies. Then I feed twice a day (excluding tiny baby feedings but that's a whole separate topic). I would stick to 1-2 times a day feeding, no more. Goldies produce a lot of waste and the more food you put in the more poop will come out (especially if you're not feeding a high quality food).

I agree your tank is reading .5ppm ammonia. I would do daily water changes to help the fish survive the cycle. You do not need to gravel vac or anything with it, just water only. Do your gravel vacs as normal once a week or so.

Keep up the good work and keep testing the water as you go. Generally, a fish in cycle takes roughly a month or so (there are other factors of course). You should start seeing Nitrates and Nitrites soon.
 

LifeGivesYouLemonOscars

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bgntoc said:
4x a day isn't getting anyones fish killed as long as you do those water changes. I accidentally fed more than that on a fish in cycle without a test kit, I did daily water changes and my fish were fine. Person above offered advice from experience, just like you did.
Its not the food that will kill the fish although overfeeding will cause obesity which in turn will push on the organs of the fish but anyway its the ammonia that it will cause that will kill the fish. If you're any kind of experienced fish keeper than you know a fish would survive without eating for at least 5 days. So why when you're cycling would you make unnecessary ammonia? You can do all the water changes you want but if you keep adding ammonia (food=waste=ammonia) you're not getting rid of it. If you have .50ppm and do 50% WC you'll end up with .25ppm. Then you feed and add ammonia so eventually you're back to .50ppm. But whatever hey I've only been doing this for 30 some years what do I know.
 

FinalFins

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4x a day isn't overfeeding if you feed minimally. Second off its still pretty much the same amount at made before. Unessacary ammonia can easily be sovlved with water changes and prime.
 

flyinGourami

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LifeGivesYouLemonOscars said:
Its not the food that will kill the fish although overfeeding will cause obesity which in turn will push on the organs of the fish but anyway its the ammonia that it will cause that will kill the fish. If you're any kind of experienced fish keeper than you know a fish would survive without eating for at least 5 days. So why when you're cycling would you make unnecessary ammonia? You can do all the water changes you want but if you keep adding ammonia (food=waste=ammonia) you're not getting rid of it. If you have .50ppm and do 50% WC you'll end up with .25ppm. Then you feed and add ammonia so eventually you're back to .50ppm. But whatever hey I've only been doing this for 30 some years what do I know.
I said what I said because you said it would kill them. Uneaten food IMO is a bigger problem, during the cycling process you can completely get rid of ammonia anyway. That'll only happen once the process is done, some will say in cycled tanks there is still ammonia.
 

LifeGivesYouLemonOscars

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Oh here we go with the magical elixir prime. Always prime. Prime don't get rid of ammonia it neutralizes it for about 48 hrs then its back. If you read blogs long enough you see people say i have a problem and not long after you'll see prime fixes it.
 

Val1

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LifeGivesYouLemonOscars said:
Oh here we go with the magical elixir prime. Always prime. Prime don't get rid of ammonia it neutralizes it for about 48 hrs then its back. If you read blogs long enough you see people say i have a problem and not long after you'll see prime fixes it.
True.

But chlorine is an active gas and it dissipates naturally (100%) from water within 4 days. We used to remove chlorine by putting a bubbler in a bucket of water. (Boiling also works, but I can't imagine trying to boil 10 gallons of water.) So all Prime has to do is neutralize it for those 2 days, right?

Chloramine is a different animal. That does not dissipate (which is why utilities use it) and I understand that it is being used more frequently.
 

LifeGivesYouLemonOscars

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Sure its great as a water conditioner i prefer stress coat but its always thrown out there as like the cycle cure when in my opinion it just gives false sense of safety. If you have a giant spike of ammonia and need to detox your water quick ok I get it. But no one goes the rest of the way to say how it really works. You always hear do a water change hit it with prime and your good which is not true. Then you'll hear some say TSS doesn't work. Well that's cause you use prime. I believe prime and the BB in TSS used at the same time kills the BB which i see people do all the time. Then they'll say it don't work. My issue isn't with prime itself but the way its used. JMHO
 

flyinGourami

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I agree that prime often gives a false sense of security, but I don't quite understand the statement that it kills bacteria in a bottle? I've used both successfully together. I am no scientist of course but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me..Can you explain?
Edit: And can you give me any evidence LifeGivesYouLemonOscars
 

LifeGivesYouLemonOscars

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I'm not a scientist either but it just seems like common sense to me. If BB in TSS lives on ammonia and you use prime and it changes the make up of it to the point it makes it safe for fish i believe and as i stated previously IN MY OPINION the BB can't feed on it. And I don't care what the bottle of prime says either. When you here people say TSS doesn't work and they also used prime i can put 2 and 2 together. This is a blog not a courtroom and your not a fishlore lawyer so your give me evidence statement is a little dramatic
 

flyinGourami

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I wouldn't really say I'm being dramatic... I'm the kind of person to want evidence to a statement like that. Personally I don't think Prime messes with bb in a bottle. Again, I'm no expert but it would make sense to me that if Prime messed with tss, assuming tss works then wouldn't it mess with regular bacteria? I think there are lots of other factors and I also think beneficial bacteria is a lot hardier than that.
I know lots of people who have used the two together without problems. Of course, I can't be 100% certain.
 

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