False Test Positives?

I want to start out with a hello and I am no longer a lurker from this helpful forum. I started an aquarium for the first time 6 weeks ago. I have no prior experience with fish outside of catching them with a fishing pole.

I started up a 29 gallon tank with a Penn-Plax Cascade 1000 canister filter (265 gph) and a Fluval 200 watt adjustable heater. I knew before I even started a fish-less cycle I wanted to house 5x-6x Zebra Otocinclus (Otos) and I would need lots of plants and a good filtration system.

I have stocked the tank with 5 Amazon Swords, 4 Anubias Nanas, 4 containers of Staurogyne Repens and I put in a 4 lb Malaysian Driftwood for the Anubias Nanas to grow on. The tank has two aeration stones inside two lantern ornaments with two major hideaway ornaments. I have used flourish tabs in a White Gravel and Eco-Complete substrate with 2 inches to 3.5 inches depending on where I have aquascaped.

The aquarium had a two week fishless cycle adding Seachem Prime and after the first week I put in 3 teaspoons of 10% Ammonium diluted with water (janitorial supplies). I tested the ammonia and it had dissipated but I saw no Nitrites or Nitrate spikes. I assumed this was due to all the plants consuming up the Nitrates.

Utilizing the advice of my independent LFS I bought 3 Hi-Fin Black Skirt Tetras in week 3 1/2. I did daily testing and saw no spikes in all significant tests. Week 4 1/2 I bought 3 Corydoras Punctatus. Again after daily testing no problems. Week 5 1/2 I added in 2 Hi-Fin Black Skirt Tetras and 2 Corydoras Punctatus. 2 days later my newly added cories are dead in the hideaway during my nightly headcount.

I immediately test for toxins and nothing. I noticed one of the cories was already decomposing so I called up the LFS right before they closed and talked with the owner. I was concerned about parasites or something else but he told me that most likely they died from stress and they probably died that morning which is why one had already started decomposing.

Today (6 weeks after the aquarium has been setup) I go to the LFS with my water sample and I did my weekly water change and my testing showed no ammonia but their testing showed it to be between 4 ppm to 8 ppm.

Now unlike most people I am quite neurotic about these fish and I have been looking at their gills to make sure they have no signs of redness and immediately after I start the process of drip accumulation I coat the new fish in Seachem Stress Guard.

I leave the store with Marineland Bio-Spira and panic as I rush home (30-40 mins away) to test the water. 5 ammonia tests later from my API test kit I see no ammonia. I check the gills of the fish and one of the cories have a slight red awe around it's eyes but I see no red on the gills or on the underside.

Now I am baffled because I can't tell if the LFS made a mistake, my testing kit is bad, if their is some circumstance I am not considering, or if the LFS is trying to get out of giving me their last two corydoras punctatus in honor of their 7 day guarantee.

I was instructed that Seachem Stability and Seachem Prime do not have the bacteria in them that starts a tank but helps prevents ammonia poisoning if you throw in a few fish and try cycling with fish. At this moment I have tried honestly thinking about how my tests and their tests could vary.

Anybody have any ideas or suggestions?

 

What test kit was the LFS using? Was it also the API liquid test?

 

I do not know. They took it in the back (employee room/storage) for testing.

 

Are you sure you're doing the tests right?
What is the expiration date on the bottles?

I'm confused with your way of cycling. Is it correct that for the first week you did nothing besides adding Prime to the water in your tank? Then during the second week you added ammonia.
This means you added no bacteria starter product? And for the first week you had no ammonia source?

How many ppm did you add?
How long time did it take for the ammonia to go down?
Did you let it go down to 0 ppm?
When did you add new ammonia again?

Seeing no nitrites or nitrates after adding ammonia might indicate that you haven't added enough at all or that the ammonia might be expired.

Even with all the plants I think your cycling has been way too short, meaning that I think it's likely you're not cycled. Never seeing any ammonia, nitrite and nitrate during cycling is just not possible.

Have you taken some water to the LFS a second time to find out if the results are the same?
Have you tried a different test kit?

Prime detoxifies up to 1 ppm ammonia and nitrite. 4 - 8 ppm is off the charts and if those are correct results all your fish should be dead, I believe unless it's been a very short time.

Did you ever change the water?

 

I believe I am doing the tests right. API Master Kit. 5 ml test tubes add the water, add the drops to the indicated amount, shake, wait about 2 mins then shake again, wait another 2-3 mins and look at it comparing to the master kit test sheet. I also have over 28 tubes with results of tests up to aprox 1 weeks old.

The expiration on the bottles is 01/2022.

I added fish food into the tank without any fish. I was hoping they would decompose and add a small amount of ammonia. I added ammonia to between 2 ppm to 3 ppm because I wasn't seeing any significant test results. After the ammonia reached 0 ppm I waited 5 days until adding fish. Both the LFS owner and I both assumed if the tank had cycled at this point that adding 3 tetras and daily testing would cause a cycle. I tested for another week and nothing showed up.

I do weekly water changes of 25% with reverse osmosis water. I had my first series of tests prior to getting fish tested by two other fish stores a Petco and a LFS that had ick on their fishes...

I have two API master kits and I did use bottles from both kits to make sure I didn't have a bad kit. I could see that by adding those four fish I had pushed the bio-load beyond its ability to handle the ammonia but I also don't feed the fish in the first 48 hours to prevent the ammonia spike.

Its been 72 hours since the last 4 fish have been added and 24-32 hours since I removed the 2 dead cories. My fish look fine. I see no red gills, no gasping, no eradicate movements besides cories periodically dashing up to the top and diving back down. My tetras are scaredy cats and like to hide away but Panchito (one with a missing gill) always greets me with his side with a missing gill.

I did do a water change once I found the two dead cories to prevent any bad bacteria and the LFS owner told me that was wrong because if part of the fish had decomposed it would add ammonia but again I am not seeing any ammonia or signs of ammonia poisoning.

My First Tank

• T-Dawg
• May 21, 2017

The 29g tank is ready to go with 3 Hi-Fin Black Skirt Tetras (week 4)

Malaysian Driftwood

• T-Dawg
• May 21, 2017

Anibuas Nanas with fishline anchoring them.

Napping Cory

• T-Dawg
• May 21, 2017

Healthy Cory

• T-Dawg
• May 21, 2017

No red gills that I can see

 

I believe I am doing the tests right. API Master Kit. 5 ml test tubes add the water, add the drops to the indicated amount, shake, wait about 2 mins then shake again, wait another 2-3 mins and look at it comparing to the master kit test sheet. I also have over 28 tubes with results of tests up to aprox 1 weeks old.

The expiration on the bottles is 01/2022.

I added fish food into the tank without any fish. I was hoping they would decompose and add a small amount of ammonia. I added ammonia to between 2 ppm to 3 ppm because I wasn't seeing any significant test results. After the ammonia reached 0 ppm I waited 5 days until adding fish. Both the LFS owner and I both assumed if the tank had cycled at this point that adding 3 tetras and daily testing would cause a cycle. I tested for another week and nothing showed up.

I do weekly water changes of 25% with reverse osmosis water. I had my first series of tests prior to getting fish tested by two other fish stores a Petco and a LFS that had ick on their fishes...

I have two API master kits and I did use bottles from both kits to make sure I didn't have a bad kit. I could see that by adding those four fish I had pushed the bio-load beyond its ability to handle the ammonia but I also don't feed the fish in the first 48 hours to prevent the ammonia spike.

Its been 72 hours since the last 4 fish have been added and 24-32 hours since I removed the 2 dead cories. My fish look fine. I see no red gills, no gasping, no eradicate movements besides cories periodically dashing up to the top and diving back down. My tetras are scaredy cats and like to hide away but Panchito (one with a missing gill) always greets me with his side with a missing gill.

I did do a water change once I found the two dead cories to prevent any bad bacteria and the LFS owner told me that was wrong because if part of the fish had decomposed it would add ammonia but again I am not seeing any ammonia or signs of ammonia poisoning.

My First Tank

• T-Dawg
• May 21, 2017

The 29g tank is ready to go with 3 Hi-Fin Black Skirt Tetras (week 4)

Malaysian Driftwood

• T-Dawg
• May 21, 2017

Anibuas Nanas with fishline anchoring them.

Napping Cory

• T-Dawg
• May 21, 2017

Healthy Cory

• T-Dawg
• May 21, 2017

No red gills that I can see

Your explanation of how to do the test is not correct for any of the tests (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate or pH). Also, the tests are done in different ways, so there's no one explanation of how to do them all.

When cycling without fish you add ammonia up to between 1 - 5 ppm (your choice). Then you wait for the ammonia to go down to approximately 0.25 and then you dose back up to 1 - 5 ppm. You continue this until you can add 1 - 5 ppm and have 0 ppm after 24 hours. During this process you will see nitrite and nitrate.
When you have 0 ammonia, nitrite and some nitrates you're cycled.
It sounds like you added up to 2 - 3 ppm ammonia, waited till it got to 0, then waited another five days and then added fish. Is this correct?
If so, you're definitely not cycled and have misunderstood how to cycle a tank. Also, not having an ammonia source for 5 days probably killed off all your bacteria, since you weren't feeding them. This means that you were starting all over again and then added fish.

You're saying that both you and the LFS thought that your tank was cycled at this point, but that adding three tetras would cause a cycle... what do you mean by this?

What results from the tests did you get at the other stores?

 

The LFS owner was apprehensive to state I had cycled and I understand its a difficult process that from what I read can take 2 weeks to 2 months. We both discussed that if I had not cycled adding fish could cause a spike if I fed them, decaying plant matter, and left over food.

In terms of the testing I did read that Ammonia you add test solution #1 and test solution #2 and wait 5 mins while Nitrates you vigorously shake for 30 seconds. So I at least conceptually I understand they are tested in different manners.

Why would I see a spike now 3 weeks after adding fish and waiting a week in between each addition of new fish?
If the aquarium does have 4-8 ppm ammonia wouldn't my fish have signs of distress or ammonia burn?

The tests at the other stores showed no Ammonia, Nitrates, and Nitrites. The Petco told me I should buy fish, the other LFS told me to wait and see about a Nitrite spike. The store I finally settled on is the one I have been buying fishes from.

 

The LFS owner was apprehensive to state I had cycled and I understand its a difficult process that from what I read can take 2 weeks to 2 months. We both discussed that if I had not cycled adding fish could cause a spike if I fed them, decaying plant matter, and left over food.

In terms of the testing I did read that Ammonia you add test solution #1 and test solution #2 and wait 5 mins while Nitrates you vigorously shake for 30 seconds. So I at least conceptually I understand they are tested in different manners.

Why would I see a spike now 3 weeks after adding fish and waiting a week in between each addition of new fish?
If the aquarium does have 4-8 ppm ammonia wouldn't my fish have signs of distress or ammonia burn?

The tests at the other stores showed no Ammonia, Nitrates, and Nitrites. The Petco told me I should buy fish, the other LFS told me to wait and see about a Nitrite spike. The store I finally settled on is the one I have been buying fishes from.

With the ammonia test you add 8 drops from each bottle and shake for five seconds. Then you wait five minutes.

With the nitrate test you add 10 drops from the first bottle, invert the tube several times, shake the second bottle for 30 seconds add 10 drops, then shake the test tube for 1 minute and wait for five minutes.

With the nitrite test you add five drops, shake for five seconds and wait five minutes.

Is this exactly how you've been doing it, cause it doesn't sound like it? To perform the tests right it is quite important to do exactly as it says.

What kind of tests were the stores using? Test strips are very inaccurate and different tests might show different results.

I'm guessing you see a spike now cause something's wrong with your test kit, you're doing the tests wrong, the LFS is doing the tests wrong or they're lying to you about the test results. Plenty of stores tell you that you're cycled, ready for fish, etc. when you're not even close.

If you did have 4 - 8 ppm ammonia your fish should be in distress, of course.

Have you tested your nitrates recently? What has the result been?

 

Ammonia Test: I shake for 10-30 secs and wait 5 mins

PH Test: Add drops and shake for 10-30 secs and wait 1-2mins shake again for any chemicals at bottom and wait a total of 5 mins

Nitrites Test: I do exactly as you have said

Nitrates Test: I add the amounts and shake 10-30 secs. I do not necessarily invert the tubes nor have I every shook the bottles. I also shake 1-2 mins later and make sure the chemicals at the bottom are evenly distributed. I wait for 5 mins.

The one LFS used API Master Kit and the Petco had API individual tests. Petco did Ammonia, Nitrates, and Nitrites. The LFS did Ammonia and Nitrites. The LFS held it against a light with an opaque covering to illuminate the test tubes.

The Nitrate test following your instructions showed 0 ppm. I am waiting on another Ammonia test as I am typing.

If the way you stated the test has to be explicitly followed that means I have not been doing the tests correctly.

 

Ammonia Test: I shake for 10-30 secs and wait 5 mins

PH Test: Add drops and shake for 10-30 secs and wait 1-2mins shake again for any chemicals at bottom and wait a total of 5 mins

Nitrites Test: I do exactly as you have said

Nitrates Test: I add the amounts and shake 10-30 secs. I do not necessarily invert the tubes nor have I every shook the bottles. I also shake 1-2 mins later and make sure the chemicals at the bottom are evenly distributed. I wait for 5 mins.

The one LFS used API Master Kit and the Petco had API individual tests. Petco did Ammonia, Nitrates, and Nitrites. The LFS did Ammonia and Nitrites. The LFS held it against a light with an opaque covering to illuminate the test tubes.

The Nitrate test following your instructions showed 0 ppm. I am waiting on another Ammonia test as I am typing.

If the way you stated the test has to be explicitly followed that means I have not been doing the tests correctly.

The pH test tube is only to be inverted, not shaken.

With the nitrate test you can be almost 100% sure to get an inaccurate result if you do not shake the #2 bottle vigorously for at least 30 seconds and shake the test tube for at least one minute.

0 nitrates means not cycled. Nitrates are a result of having ammonia and nitrite and in a tank with fish, it's not possible to have 0 nitrates unless your tank is full of plants and you have next to no fish.

 

Alright so moving forward if the tank is not cycled. Since I do have fish should I do more water changes (i.e. daily, bi-daily, bi-weekly)?

Is 265 gph helping give inaccurate readings in some way or is that possibly helping filter the water enough to prevent any harm to the fishes?

 

The one LFS used API Master Kit and the Petco had API individual tests. Petco did Ammonia, Nitrates, and Nitrites. The LFS did Ammonia and Nitrites. The LFS held it against a light with an opaque covering to illuminate the test tubes.

Enough people have had API ammonia tests come back dark green while the fish seemed unaffected, that I suspect a bad batch. I've been collecting batch numbers but don't have many data points.

 

Alright so moving forward if the tank is not cycled. Since I do have fish should I do more water changes (i.e. daily, bi-daily, bi-weekly)?

Is 265 gph helping give inaccurate readings in some way or is that possibly helping filter the water enough to prevent any harm to the fishes?

When cycling with fish you want to keep ammonia at 1 ppm or less, nitrite at 1 ppm or less and nitrates at 20 ppm or less as long as you dose Prime. This means that your fish will not be harmed.
However, since all your tests show 0 it is impossible to know your water parameters (unless those are in fact your actual parameters) and thus impossible to know how much water you should be changing to keep those levels.

Enough people have had API ammonia tests come back dark green while the fish seemed unaffected, that I suspect a bad batch. I've been collecting batch numbers but don't have many data points.

His tests all show 0, it's the LFS's test that showed high ammonia.

 

Okay I guess I will just use Seachem Prime again and Stress-Guard until I see something on the tests or till my fish turn belly up?

I am glad I have gotten clarity how to do the test but I am still unsure what I should do moving forward.

I have added Martime Bio-Sparita in the last 6 hours.
I have done a water change of 25% in the last 10 hours.

If I assume that the LFS tests are right then I need to do something to treat the ammonia that is at deadly levels. What steps should I take since I have heard varying methods to handle an non-cycled tank with fish. Should I throw in some Seachem Stability?

If I assume that my tests are wrong but that my ammonia is not at 4-8ppm will adding Seachem Prime harm the newly added bacteria? From what I have read it should not harm the bacteria unless they are starved of an ammonia and nitrite sources.

 

Okay I guess I will just use Seachem Prime again and Stress-Guard until I see something on the tests or till my fish turn belly up?

I am glad I have gotten clarity how to do the test but I am still unsure what I should do moving forward.

I have added Martime Bio-Sparita in the last 6 hours.
I have done a water change of 25% in the last 10 hours.

If I assume that the LFS tests are right then I need to do something to treat the ammonia that is at deadly levels. What steps should I take since I have heard varying methods to handle an non-cycled tank with fish. Should I throw in some Seachem Stability?

If I assume that my tests are wrong but that my ammonia is not at 4-8ppm will adding Seachem Prime harm the newly added bacteria? From what I have read it should not harm the bacteria unless they are starved of an ammonia and nitrite sources.

Adding a bacteria booster product such as Stability is a great idea to get the cycle going and cycle faster. This will not harm your fish. Prime should also be dosed daily and will not harm your cycle.

If I were you I'd go to any LFS that uses a liquid test kit and ask them to test my water. Make sure you get the exact numbers. Maybe even go to two or three different places if possible. Along with your own test kit this should answer whether or not you have really high ammonia or no ammonia at all.

If your ammonia is really high you need to do plenty of back to back water changes, however it is impossible for me to answer how many since we do not know your parameters. If your ammonia is at 4 ppm, I'd do at least one 50% change to get it down to 2 ppm (add Prime) and then another 50% change to get it down to 1 ppm (add Prime).
When doing a fish in cycle your best friends are bacteria boosting products, detoxifying products and lots of water changes. Parameters should be kept at a max of 1 ppm ammonia, 1 ppm nitrite and 20 ppm nitrates when using Prime.

If your tank doesn't have crazy high ammonia, then your fish obviously aren't at the same risk. The thing is just that it is highly unlikely for your tank to be cycled when it is at 0 nitrates. It makes it even more unlikely seeing as you've never even seen traces of ammonia or nitrites.
If it is at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and 0 nitrates and not cycled your ammonia source (bio load) might not be big enough to start the cycle.
What fish do you have in your tank at the moment?
If you are in fact cycled and your bio load is just so small that it creates so little nitrates that your plants can handle it then you're done, no problem.
Is there any way you could get a new test kit or borrow one from a friend?

 

I will try to go to a few other pet stores and get them to test the water. I will also bring my test kit to the LFS that I have bought the fish from and have them watch me test a cup of water.

I have 3 cories and 5 tetras.

I will start testing day and night and dose prime daily and just see if the bio load was too small for the addition of fish. Either fish are a lot more resilient to ammonia or I have a small bioload and after x fishes it brought the Ammonia up for a period of time (maybe 24 hrs). I will update the thread if I find out anything new. Thanks for the assistance.

To whomever else is interested. I did my day and night testing have results.

Post 3 25-30% water changes with Seachem Stability within 24 hours I had a Nitrates spikes of 20 ppm. It started at 5 ppm and throughout the day it went to 20 ppm Monday. My Ammonia has still remained zero since Sunday. Although this evening I saw my Nitrites bump up to 1 ppm. I have come to the conclusion that when I introduced the third series of fishes the bio load was too small.

I have noticed only one Cory with red gills which leads me to believe ammonia burn. I will continue to treat with Seachem Guard unless somebody has a better suggestion.

I have had two stores test with one using test strips and another using drops. The Petco that used strips determined my Ammonia was 0-.25 ppm but my Nitrites were at 5 ppm and my Nitrates were 10 ppm. At the LFS with drops they determined my Ammonia was 1 ppm, Nitrites were 1ppm, and Nitrates were 10-20 ppm.

The spikes in Nitrites and Nitrates leads me to believe my aquarium is cycling it now.

I am still concerned about the 8 ppm Ammonia would a decaying fish cause a huge ammonia spike?

 

I started up a 29 gallon tank....
after the first week I put in 3 teaspoons of 10% Ammonium diluted with water (janitorial supplies). I tested the ammonia and it had dissipated but I saw no Nitrites or Nitrate spikes.

Something is wrong with your tests IMO as it seems others are saying.

According to a calculator I used and seemed accurate you were at 13ppm ammonia with adding that much, 3 tsp was WAY to much. 1 teaspoon would have been more than enough. This most likely stalled a cycle before it could even start and explains the high readings even weeks later.

Ammonia Cycling Calculator

I suggest removing the fish, doing a 100% WC, putting them back and starting from there along with adding bottled bacteria to get a cycle going, now that you have fish they will produce plenty of ammonia to cycle the tank, do some reading on fish in cycling as some products recommended doing wc's while others suggest against it while cycling with their bacteria.