Everything I'm Doing is Making Things Worse! Betta fin help needed

I'm so stressed right now, everything I'm doing to try to help my betta and my tank is making it worse.

My betta Simon has some kind of fin melt/rot/biting/disease, I don't know. My water is clean-clean-clean, always is. Everyone agrees he looks bad but I can't seem to help him. Keeping water super clean, added salt then removed salt when that might be part of the problem (he is shedding his slime coat too). I keep changing out the water, 10-20% per day, sometimes 30%, today about 40%...because...I also have hydra in my tank so I keep trying to get rid of those manually without dumping a bunch of chemicals in the tank that will no doubt make everything even worse and kill my snails on top of it. So I keep removing decor and plants that have hydra on them and watch like a hawk for new hydra. I'm keeping the lights off to de-stress the fish and the hydra seem to multiply more with light. I only see little clumps of 3-4 of them but when I remove them, a few more usually appear a day or two later. I'm sure sticking my hand/arm into the day every day and stirring everything up by taking out decor or killing hydra is not helping anything and stressing out my fish.

Advice is helpful but conflicting: add salt, don't add salt, the salt is irritating him, that's why his slime coat is coming off, take the salt out. Add Stress Coat, don't add Stress Coat. Treat the tank for hydra but take out your snails first because that will kill them - oh and you can't put them back in for like ever because the hydra killer will settle into the substrate and kill them later. Treat the fins for a bacterial or fungal disease, or leave him alone because he's had enough and let him heal. Maybe take out/clean/replace the sponge filters - no, don't do that because the bb will be destroyed. Keep the water clean and it'll get better. But it's not.

I'm at the end of my rope. I got my bettas as a hobby to enjoy and de-stress. They stress me out more than anything when they aren't doing well, and it's breaking my heart watching Simon go downhill.

So does ANYONE have some advice that will help him? First with what it looks like? Fin rot? Fin melt? Biting? The water quality has never been anything but super clean with good parameters (0/0/>5, ph 7.6, temp steady 79). Should I keep changing out small amounts of water to keep the water clean and add Stress Coat to help with his fin healing? I added the normal amount of Stress Coat, should I add the "treatment" amount, which is double? Anyone have opinions on stress coat?

I'm feeling like I agree that the salt wasn't helping - I usually underdose but have had salt in the tank for quite a while - because there always seems to be some kind of issue that calls for it - a torn fin, healing fins, etc. It's definitely not helping this time.

Also any words of encouragement? I feel like I'm doing everything "right" but my fish is a mess. I've been at this for more than a year and I've learned a LOT, so I still have things to learn but I'm not a rank beginner by any means. Why can't I get this tank to a point of stability and just leave my poor fish alone and let them just enjoy life? And me too...so frustrating.

I can give all the background info again if it'll help, but in a nutshell, I have a 20g divided betta tank, opaque divider, two bettas. Each side has a heater and sponge filter. I've had Simon a little over a year and rescued his neighbor Ted about six months ago. Simon was in a 10g by himself, they moved to the big tank in mid-March. Had a trauma on April 11 when a new decor released microfibers into the water that almost killed Ted. Fixed that, two days later Simon got a huge rip in his lower fin because of an improperly replaced decor. Took all the decor out, sanded it, etc. Added roiboos tea and salt to heal the fin. That fin IS healing, it's his tail that is a wreck.

Two weeks ago (?) the hydra appeared. Took out the decor and plants that had it, tossed the plants, cleaned the decor. Sometime around then Simon's top fin was clamped. I kept the water clean, left the lights off, and that has seemed to improve.

So it's been one issue to deal with and then the next.

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent, and if anyone can give me some solid advice on what is happening with his tail and slime coat, and suggestions for how to help him. Much appreciated! Thank you. Pics attached show his wrecked tail fin, and one pic of what he looked like before I started doing everything wrong.

 

I don’t have experience with hydra so I’m afraid I can’t be of help with that but I believe I can help with the tail problems.

1) Get him into an aquarium all by himself if possible (if he is already by himself than good, I was a little confused as to his current aquarium situation) It will make it easier to treat him.

2) Keep adding tannins. Add until the water is a noticeably brown color.

3) I do not suggest ever adding salt to the aquarium itself, but rather removing the fish and placing them in a salt bath. Let the tannins do their thing first, but if it’s getting progressively worse than start with salt baths.

4) I do think stress guard is a good plan if his slime coat is suffering. Between the tannins and the stress guard his slime coat should be on the mend pretty quickly.

5) Keep your water warm and clean. Lights dimmed as well, to reduce any potential stress.

 

Agree with above! If you haven’t tried his own space to treat, that may help so he is solo and you can add indian almond leaves or more tannins.

Also, rosetails have heavy tails and he may be fin biting because of that. Not sure if that is something they just start doing but maybe. I personally always avoid salt unless for bloat, haven’t had luck with it.

Last thing, you mention you have had him for a year, not sure how old he was when you got him but if he is near 2 (was a year when you got him) he may be older and genes kicking in. Aging doesn’t look good on everyone Not sure if that is it but you seem to be doing the best you can and sometimes that is enough Less can be more to just make sure all water is good and give time good luck!

 

Thank you!! I will follow the advice! To answer your question Simon is in a shared, divided 20g tank. Each betta (Simon and Ted) has his own 10g with heater and filter on his side. I can't move Simon to his own tank at this point unfortunately, I don't have the 10g anymore. I think treatment wouldn't do any harm to Ted, his fins are good but still growing out from his original deplorable state when I got him. Luckily Ted seems to be doing just fine.

Re: tannins: I have been using roiboos tea to stain the water. Someone told me to just hang a teabag into the tank, but someone else said not to do that, to put the tea in a cup/bowl first and then put the stained water into the tank. In your opinion, is one of those a better method? Indian almond leaves are helpful but I can never find enough to stain a 20g tank, so is the roiboos okay - serve the same purpose?

I tend to be on the less-is-more school of thought, and usually feel like as long as the tank is clean and fishie can be left alone, nature tends to go the right way (except this time, things still seem to keep going wrong no matter what I do).

Okay - so I will use some Stress Coat, leave the lights off, add tannins, don't add any more salt - and soon tank will be 100% replaced with clean (no salt) water since I change out 10-30% daily. I also feel like less is more that way too and try not to change out more than 20% at a time unless there is a compelling reason.

So it doesn't look like fin melt/fin rot/disease to you? The edges are ragged but look "clean" to me, tail itself is not coming off in pieces or anything like that, he just looks either the same or a little worse every day - so far.

Thanks again, I appreciate it!!

 

Hi! I am not well-versed in treating fin rot/disease, and I cannot give you any advice on what to do. BUT, I did want to say that you are not doing everything wrong! You are actually doing everything you can to save your fish. I just want to remind you that as long as you continue to care for him in the manner you have, you are doing your best and that is all you can ask of yourself. I wish you the best of luck with Simon and the hydra situation!

 

Sorry to hear Simon is still a concern.

Re: tannins: I have been using roiboos tea to stain the water. Someone told me to just hang a teabag into the tank, but someone else said not to do that, to put the tea in a cup/bowl first and then put the stained water into the tank.

Ultimately it is us who are responsible to research everything that we put in our tanks. There are lots of resources besides the forum that directly address adding steeped rooibos.

I tend to be on the less-is-more school of thought, and usually feel like as long as the tank is clean and fishie can be left alone, nature tends to go the right way (except this time, things still seem to keep going wrong no matter what I do).

He's a petstore Betta and not bred to be healthy. Sometimes there really is nothing you can do. It's really sad that these animals are considered throw away by commercial farms and big chain LFS. Remember the Teddy Tank?

I also feel like less is more that way too and try not to change out more than 20% at a time unless there is a compelling reason.

You can do large water changes daily if you choose. It's best to add the clean, dechlorinated water back in slowly to avoid shock.

So it doesn't look like fin melt/fin rot/disease to you? The edges are ragged but look "clean" to me, tail itself is not coming off in pieces or anything like that, he just looks either the same or a little worse every day - so far.

I think you plan to keep water clean is best. Tannins can be helpful as mild antibacterial but certainly won't cure a systemic problem.

Hope he turns the corner for you.

 

2) Keep adding tannins. Add until the water is a noticeably brown color.

AquaCaitlin, can roiboos tea work for tannins, and per question above can I add the teabag to the edge of the tank (like a giant cup of tea lol) or better to soak the teabag in water first and add the water to the tank?

Fisheye, thanks. I know that everything I put into my tank is my responsibility, hence the feeling bad that I'm doing everything wrong.

However I do understand that dumping in a half a tank's worth of cold water all at the same time is a bad idea.

Hi! I am not well-versed in treating fin rot/disease, and I cannot give you any advice on what to do. BUT, I did want to say that you are not doing everything wrong! You are actually doing everything you can to save your fish. I just want to remind you that as long as you continue to care for him in the manner you have, you are doing your best and that is all you can ask of yourself. I wish you the best of luck with Simon and the hydra situation!

Thank you so much! It's really hard to not feel like I'm wrecking him with everything I'm doing, but thank you for the words of encouragement. We all need that from time to time.

 

Thank you!! I will follow the advice! To answer your question Simon is in a shared, divided 20g tank. Each betta (Simon and Ted) has his own 10g with heater and filter on his side. I can't move Simon to his own tank at this point unfortunately, I don't have the 10g anymore. I think treatment wouldn't do any harm to Ted, his fins are good but still growing out from his original deplorable state when I got him. Luckily Ted seems to be doing just fine.

Re: tannins: I have been using roiboos tea to stain the water. Someone told me to just hang a teabag into the tank, but someone else said not to do that, to put the tea in a cup/bowl first and then put the stained water into the tank. In your opinion, is one of those a better method? Indian almond leaves are helpful but I can never find enough to stain a 20g tank, so is the roiboos okay - serve the same purpose?

I tend to be on the less-is-more school of thought, and usually feel like as long as the tank is clean and fishie can be left alone, nature tends to go the right way (except this time, things still seem to keep going wrong no matter what I do).

Okay - so I will use some Stress Coat, leave the lights off, add tannins, don't add any more salt - and soon tank will be 100% replaced with clean (no salt) water since I change out 10-30% daily. I also feel like less is more that way too and try not to change out more than 20% at a time unless there is a compelling reason.

So it doesn't look like fin melt/fin rot/disease to you? The edges are ragged but look "clean" to me, tail itself is not coming off in pieces or anything like that, he just looks either the same or a little worse every day - so far.

Thanks again, I appreciate it!!

Sounds like a plan! I believe you will extract more of the tea from the bags if you boil it first, but it’s up to you.

As for his fin situation- it looks like some tearing either from a previous injury or biting that has picked up some rot. He actually doesn’t look too bad compared to some other cases I’ve seen bettas bounce back from so you’re doing things right!

 

I hope I didn't say anything to make you feel a certain way-that wasn't my intention at all. I realize this is a very stressful time with your fish and only meant to help.

I didn't suggest you were dumping in cold water at all. I just meant that you can safely do a large water change if the new water is introduced slowly so as not to shock.-even if the temp is the same.

Pretty sure we all have at some point, just reacted to the situation in our tanks when really, there is more often ample time to broadly research trusted sources. Very few situations happen overnight and similarly, won't resolve over night.

That Simon and Ted are living in the same water and just Simon is sick says more about his breeding and less about your care.

 

I'm sorry (Fisheye), I'm obviously feeling sensitive and defensive...just really stressed. Thank you for trying to help me, I do appreciate it.

 

I'm just wondering, does he have any other symptoms other than the ripped tail? Is he lethargic, not eating, swimming weird? Or is it just the ripped fins? I'm an amateur myself but I almost wonder if there's not so much a disease probelm as a fin biting/ripping problem? I'm so sorry you are going through this and I don't have more help

 

It could be fun bitting. Try to rearrange the tank. And just large waterchanges every couple of days. It will heal up. I would do 50% every 3-4 days.

 

I'm just wondering, does he have any other symptoms other than the ripped tail? Is he lethargic, not eating, swimming weird? Or is it just the ripped fins? I'm an amateur myself but I almost wonder if there's not so much a disease probelm as a fin biting/ripping problem? I'm so sorry you are going through this and I don't have more help

Good question! He is acting completely normal, swimming around, always happy to eat, curious, friendly, comes over to say hi. His behavior hasn't changed at all. The only time I noticed weird behavior was a couple of weeks ago when the top fin was clamped - he seemed uncomfortable trying to swim around. That's improved and he's acting as if he had a whole set of beautiful fins.

 

I would boil water, add the tea bag, let cool and then add the tannins. I agree this gets the most out of it & you can control how much is added. Be sure it is not a blend but 100% rooibos. He'll get there, but fins can take soem weeks to come back

 

Just wanted to check in on you and Simon, Mamastacia3. Really hope today was a good day!

 

Just wanted to check in on you and Simon, Mamastacia3. Really hope today was a good day!

Hi Fisheye...yes it was a pretty good day, thank you! This morning Simon had less slime coat shedding than yesterday. I changed out 25% more water, and last night added a roiboos teabag to the tank. His tail looks the same, not better but not worse.

He seems his normal self, active, curious, and hungry. So...fingers crossed.

Thanks for asking!

-St

 

My betta had the same problem when I got him. He was kept with a bunch of other fish and a crayfish. I put him in a heavily filtered planted 20 gallon long and after 2 weeks the issue cleared up. I've had him almost 3 years now and he is doing amazing. I recommend plants with bettas and to get rid of all your substrate and start over. No fake plants or rough decorations. He is beautiful by the way. I agree with the almond leaves. A black water aquarium is the way to go.

 

Update: almost a week later, Simon’s fins are about the same, maybe even slightly worse. That’s the not great news. Better news is that he is no longer shedding his slime coat, and there are possible little nubs of new fin growth. I’ll try to take a pic tomorrow.

I’ve been replacing 20-30% of the water every day, and putting in roiboos tannins (new teabag each night).
I’ve reduced the number of hours the light is on to about 3-4 hrs a day. I can reduce that even more but my plants might die (which I can live with, I got the plants only for the fish).
There have been very small crop-ups of hydra but I can usually remove the item they’re on along with them.

Any suggestions of anything to do differently? Should I just keep up with what I’m doing and report back in another week? He still appears unfazed and is very active, curious, greedy etc.

Thanks!
-Stacia

 

Update: almost a week later, Simon’s fins are about the same, maybe even slightly worse. That’s the not great news. Better news is that he is no longer shedding his slime coat, and there are possible little nubs of new fin growth. I’ll try to take a pic tomorrow.

I’ve been replacing 20-30% of the water every day, and putting in roiboos tannins (new teabag each night).
I’ve reduced the number of hours the light is on to about 3-4 hrs a day. I can reduce that even more but my plants might die (which I can live with, I got the plants only for the fish).
There have been very small crop-ups of hydra but I can usually remove the item they’re on along with them.

Any suggestions of anything to do differently? Should I just keep up with what I’m doing and report back in another week? He still appears unfazed and is very active, curious, greedy etc.

Thanks!
-Stacia

Just keep doing what you’re doing- some bettas fins just grow back slower. Glad to hear he’s improving the smallest bit!

 

Simon is so beautiful! makes me want to have one betta. I am a beginner in this hobby and dealing with my own fish issues, so I can't offer any advice, just a virtual hug, I completely understand how you feel. Hope things turn around and Simon goes back to his previous glory.

 

Hi there, thank you for the extra support!

In looking back over photos from the last few weeks (I take a photo each day to document progress), he really has not gotten better and in fact is slightly worse. The "nubs" of healing were actually there at least a week ago - no new healing, just slightly worse of the same problem.

I did a ton of research on issues that could cause tail/fin rot (other than biting, which I do understand it could be), and found that columnaris can cause tail erosion or "rot" even with super clean water conditions. I looked at a gazillion photos and Simon does not have cottony white tufts or the saddleback marking, but...there are different strains of columnaris and one of them is a chronic type that is marked by tail erosion and little iridescent white spots. I looked at some photos and did notice some spots like that. I'm posting a photo.

I'm only considering other things because I've seen zero improvement and in fact a continued worsening. from what I understand fin biting usually causes "U" shaped bite marks, but not typically the type of erosion that goes almost all the way up to his body in a thinner line. I know it could be biting but I don't want to not treat an actual infection. What do y'all think of this photo and the white iridescent dots? These dots have shown up in other photos too, this one shows it the best.

PS I've since taken out the floating log (even though he loves it) in case that was causing tearing. I sanded that sucker down until every part of it is smooth, but just in case, want to see if that has an effect.

PPS in the photo showing the dots you can see the healing bottom fin (from a decor tear that had occurred a while ago) - this is not the area I'm worried about, it's the tail. In this photo his tail had not deteriorated completely but it shows the spots.

As always, thank you!

Cheers,
Stacia

 

Hi there, thank you for the extra support!

In looking back over photos from the last few weeks (I take a photo each day to document progress), he really has not gotten better and in fact is slightly worse. The "nubs" of healing were actually there at least a week ago - no new healing, just slightly worse of the same problem.

I did a ton of research on issues that could cause tail/fin rot (other than biting, which I do understand it could be), and found that columnaris can cause tail erosion or "rot" even with super clean water conditions. I looked at a gazillion photos and Simon does not have cottony white tufts or the saddleback marking, but...there are different strains of columnaris and one of them is a chronic type that is marked by tail erosion and little iridescent white spots. I looked at some photos and did notice some spots like that. I'm posting a photo.

I'm only considering other things because I've seen zero improvement and in fact a continued worsening. from what I understand fin biting usually causes "U" shaped bite marks, but not typically the type of erosion that goes almost all the way up to his body in a thinner line. I know it could be biting but I don't want to not treat an actual infection. What do y'all think of this photo and the white iridescent dots? These dots have shown up in other photos too, this one shows it the best.

PS I've since taken out the floating log (even though he loves it) in case that was causing tearing. I sanded that sucker down until every part of it is smooth, but just in case, want to see if that has an effect.

PPS in the photo showing the dots you can see the healing bottom fin (from a decor tear that had occurred a while ago) - this is not the area I'm worried about, it's the tail. In this photo his tail had not deteriorated completely but it shows the spots.

As always, thank you!

Cheers,
Stacia

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Interesting... I’m not an expert on Columnaris, but I don’t think that’s what it is if the dots have gone away?

When it boils down to it the reality is that some bettas just don’t heal, because of poor genetics.
Many bettas from the petstore are bred in mass numbers, with little regards as to genetic strength, making them extremely suspectable to different diseases and rots. The reality is, some don’t heal, no matter what you do.

I’m not saying that this is the case for sure, but just a strong suspicion.

 

Is he still eating ok? I wouldn’t do any meds if you end up going that route if he isn’t eating well and has weakened immune system due to lack of nutrients.

 

Hi there,

Yes he is still eating and swimming around and acting 95% of normal. Maybe rests for just a bit longer but sometimes not.

He still has the little iridescent spots. I figure I’d I treat conservatively (methylene blue baths) and put him in a quarantine tank In a quieter spot to see if that helps.

I really appreciate all the input!

Cheers,
Stacia

Here’s the photo I found online (with a detailed article following) that made me think it may be columnaris.

I am always hesitant to use medications (in fact I never have treated any fish with meds so far, just aquarium salt), so I’ll continue in that vein at first and do the methylene baths. From what I understand it’s a relatively low-risk treatment and if it doesn’t help him I’ll stop.

I’m rethinking the quarantine tank for now though. I’m thinking taking him in and out of the tank for the baths, as careful as I may be, will be stressful. I don’t want to add more stress by changing his home. So new plan is to leave him in the big tank and see if the baths help. If not, then QT and possibly some tank meds.

what d’y’all think of that as a starting plan?

Thanks!

 

Hi, ive had so many bettas and its always either fin rot or ich that gets every single one of them at some point. ive ALWAYS had success in treating fin rot by first, placing them in a much much bigger tank (preferably a cycled one).secondly, if that doesnt work, i would bathe them in a salt bathe (1 tbsp per gallon always works out well for me. Lastly, i would always make sure to keep the waters pristine and clean and make sure he is well fed and not stressed. I actually have an interesting story to tell you in relation to all this which i have told in other forums. a year ago, i bought some bettas from my local fish seller online. For some reason, he gave me a 'runt' betta as a bonus which should have been culled by any breeder as the colors were very pale (a cellophane betta) and unlike the other koi bettas which has bright colors. It was suffering all kinds of illnesses from ich, fin rot, mouth rot and other nasty stuff. i wasnt able to cure him after lots of tries using many different kinds of medication. I had given up as it was barely living even though it would eat bloodworms very sluggishly so i ended up placing him (could be a her, even the seller wasnt sure!) in my mini pond where lots of plants grew and it was very densely packed with vegetation. I knew mosquitoes frequently laid their eggs there as i could always see mosquito larvae so i wasnt worried about it starving to death. So i placed him/her in there and let nature take its course. A month passed and i suddenly see a bright betta koi in the pond. Well lo and behold, it was the betta that i placed in the pond a month back. The betta is still currently in the pond for mosquito control and is living happily. So bottom line, try placing your betta in a bigger tank and have it closely resemble its natural habitat. tannins have always worked out for me very well though i use indian almond leaves. Good luck.

oh and btw, hydra appearing in your tank indicates something is off though it is likely coming from your plants, try to root it out.

 

Thank you Jdk, good to hear from a long term betta owner. My betta has 10g with only a nerite snail for company, that should be good. And my water conditions are always pristine. That’s why this is a head scratcher. I’ve ordered some methylene blue and will give him MB baths with salt. It’s obvious to me from having “known” this fish for over a year that he is not just biting. Something is wrong.

I’ll report back on Simon’s progress (hopefully there will be progress!).

Great story about the “runt” betta!

-Stacia

 

STOP RIGHT THERE! You should never mix methlyne blue with salt, if you have already done it, QUICKLY remove your betta from the tank. You can only use it one at a time. Id try salt first.

 

Ok. I haven’t started yet, don’t have the MB yet.

 

Another update: Simon has continued to not improve, unfortunately, and a few days ago started just staying on the bottom of the tank. I knew something was getting much worse when he didn’t even come up for feeding time, which he usually lives for. I couldn’t get him to come up to the top for food.

Did a ton more research, decided on the following treatment after changing course due the drastic worsening of his condition:

Moved him to a 2-gallon hospital tank for treatment. I’ve started giving him daily Bettamax baths (has a combination of broad spectrum mild antiseptic/methylene blue/sulfa) then treating the hospital tank with Spectrogram (combo of furan...whatever the full name of that antibiotic is, and kanamycin in pre-measured ratio to treat Columnaris, which I’m increasingly convinced he has). He has been tolerating both well -on day 2 now. He has a bit more energy and is eating again. Zero improvement on the tail deterioration, but we just started with this.

I also ordered a furan-kanamycin-broad spectrum antiparasitic treated food, bc since the treatment started he’s been pooping out a bunch of stringy poo...so just in case.

All the choices are the mildest version of the treatment and I’m following the instructions carefully

I also did a 90% water change on the big tank bc of all the little bugs I kept seeing on the glass, so when he goes back it’ll hopefully be a better environment.

Please wish us well, and I don’t think I can handle anyone telling me I’m doing it all wrong, but I do appreciate feedback and suggestions. Everything I was doing wasn’t working so I’m trying this now. It made more sense to isolate Simon and treat him alone, since no one else seems to have the same problems (Ted the other betta is fine, snails fine etc).

Thanks for reading the novel! Pics are of Simon’s treatment and then a couple of Ted just cuz he’s beautiful and it makes me feel better to know he’s doing fine.

Cheers,
Stacia

 

I’m so sorry for you and Simon I really hope things work out and it sounds like he is in the best care he could possibly hope for