Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by CherryBarb123, Apr 4, 2012.

  1. CherryBarb123Valued MemberMember

    I have a cory that I think I might need to euthanise. If I do, I will use the clove oil method. This clove oil looks like it has extra things. Is this the kind of thing I need to buy?



  2. LyndaBFishlore LegendMember

    Yes, that's acceptable. Sorry for your cory.

  3. CherryBarb123Valued MemberMember

    Thanks, he has been in a bad way for a while, and now I can't let him suffer any longer :(

  4. Fall RiverValued MemberMember

    Such a sad topic. Wish we never had to think about it. Another option is to drop him in boiling water. Sounds horrible, but it's very quick for him. :(
  5. CherryBarb123Valued MemberMember

    Oooh, no! I don't especially want to do it as it is, and that.....I couldn't do it :( Does the freezing method work humanely?
  6. orbelinaValued MemberMember

    Apparently not it takes far too long....the clove oil option is the most humane.. I haven't done it and hope I don't have too, but if I do it will be the clove oil for me...sorry you have to do this :(
  7. CherryBarb123Valued MemberMember

    It's so hard to know what to do, because he seems a little better today. He can swim, but doesn't seem to be able to hold his fins up. His colours are faded. I wish I knew what was wrong with him. I think he was attacked, and he has been hanging on for ages. He seems to be a tough little guy, but I don't really know whether he is suffering :(

    Thanks for all the replies
  8. orbelinaValued MemberMember

    Have you a spare tank you can put him in on his own? You could observe him better and if he is being bullied it will get him away from that too...I think that's what I would do if I could...:)
  9. CherryBarb123Valued MemberMember

    Sadly I haven't got another tank :( Would there be another way of separating him?
  10. AquaristFishlore LegendMember

  11. afremontNew MemberMember

    I think that's the first time I ever heard that. Please don't do that, cold water would be nicer and that's still not considered humane by some. Of course there are lots of opinions on the subject of whether fish feel pain. I don't believe that they can feel pain anything at all like we can, but I still think clove oil is the best way, followed by a dose of ethanol to make sure it's permanent. Fish certainly have a fear response and clove oil turns it off very quickly. This makes the whole process much less traumatic for everyone involved.

    Here's some good information about using clove oil:
  12. jbdubValued MemberMember

    I've heard of people doing this with guppies that have bent spines. It's to stop them breeding aparently and passing on the deformity.
    Seems harsh to me but then I suppose it can have more far reaching effects letting them breed.
  13. Fall RiverValued MemberMember

  14. CherryBarb123Valued MemberMember

    Sadly, he died last night :( Thanks everyone for the replies
  15. orbelinaValued MemberMember

    I'm sorry to hear that :(
  16. Fall RiverValued MemberMember

    Very sorry to hear that.
  17. ryanrModeratorModerator Member

    Sorry to hijack now an obsolete thread. But I have to disagree... and I totally agree with the following quote

    This is from the Royal Society for the Protection of Cruelty to Animals (RSPCA Australia) :  

    Cherry - I'm extremely sorry for your loss. You did what you could (not that makes it any better) :;hug2
  18. can haz catfishies?Valued MemberMember

    Just wondered I have heard of using pure vodka or whiskey too, I haven't had to try it my self but wondered would the high level of alcohol not pretty much dull any sense of pain? I assume it would have the same effect as it does on us, might be a silly question but just wondered what the truth of it was?
  19. afremontNew MemberMember

    That's an interesting statement from the RSPCA, it seems to "reach" a little further than the statements at the publisher's site though. I mean to assume that salmon find their way back to their birthplace by "memory" defies reason. It's likely not even a matter of simple memory, since no human brain could ever "find" their birthplace when they were an adult. The salmon do it thru some special mechanism that is more like inexplicable instinct than cognitive behavior. The salmon is accomplishing one specific act that other fish can't even perform.

    Another thing mentioned on the publisher's site is that cortisol is released. As far as I know, all vertebrates do that, it's a stress response not necessarily related only to pain. Of course pain is stress, but the reverse is not necessarily true.

    I'm not saying that fish don't feel "pain", I'm just saying that it doesn't go to the level that humans feel simply because there is no (evolutionary) need to. Why should a fish feel water temps as hot or cold outside a range of a few degrees. As humans we (and other mammals) need to be able to because everyday life incorporates a much broader temperature range with different consequences than everyday normal life in fish. For example, we can feel the difference between boiling hot 100C and scorching hot 200C because we need to, but higher than that it and all feels the same to us. I can't imagine why the fish would need anything more than to know that the temp is too warm or too cool.

    I'm thinking of purchasing that book just to see how many "leading" scientists are claiming that fish feel pain like mammals. Like I eluded to before, the RSPCA statement is more broad than the publisher's, so I'd like to see what the actual book says and what science the author used. I'm not trying to be a butt, I actually am interested if only because I have nearly a half century of observing sub-tropical fish thanks to my dad the fishing nut. I've seen things that I won't go into that basically prove to me that they simply don't feel pain to the extent, or even necessarily in the same way that any other vertebrate that I've seen does. Growing up in a farm community, I feel I have a fair understanding of the pain capability of many food vertebrates, and they do vary greatly.

    Not that I believe that brain size really proves anything, but fish brains are typically 1/15 the size of a similar sized bird.
  20. orbelinaValued MemberMember

    I think from what I have read you use the clove oil as an anaesthetic then a strong alcohol such as vodka to be completely sure as it were...:(

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