Ethics: Where do our bettas come from?

This question came to me last night as I was browsing the (now) 12-page thread on "Betta tankmates", where the mass-breeding and sale of bettas for commercial purposes was discussed.

My intention for this thread is two-fold:

1) To gain knowledge about how bettas are produced for sale in commercial shops, like Petco, etc.

2) To gain knowledge and discuss whether these practices are ethical.

What do I mean by "ethical"?

First, in a world that is growing more and more hyperfocused on environmentalism and a "think global, act local" approach, I was curious if anyone takes issue with the fact that most bettas have an extremely large environmental footprint - perhaps much more than other small pets. The majority come from Thailand (at least, I can confirm my local Petco gets theirs from "Tropical Fish International", based in California, who imports their bettas from Thailand) -- for many of us this is literally on the other side of the world. This alone makes their footprint extremely large (think of all the resources needed to keep them alive and transported to their final destinations around the world).

Secondly, does anyone have knowledge (backed by personal experience or fact) about how bettas are bred and kept by these breeders who produce bettas for commercial sale? How are the conditions? How closely monitored is breeding? Do show quality bettas and pet-store-quality bettas come from the same stock? Are these fish generally healthy? Is it considered like a "puppy mill" of sorts, or is it more carefully monitored and regulated?

 

Actually, it's now 13 pages. junebug may know more details on this.....

 

I don't get my bettas from Petco or Petsmart or really any big-chain pet store, but I can certainly ask my LFS the next time I go in!

 

The ones at my Petco actually look 100x healthier than the ones in our local LFS. Not sure why - perhaps more money to import better quality, and because they sell for higher prices (depending on the fish)? I'd love to know the answer.

The bettas at Petco are also more diverse and expensive -- many different tail-types (and prices based on tail-type). I paid $20 for my Butterfly Male & $20 for my Rosetail, but only $5.99 for my Crowntail.

The ones at my LFS are often VTs and just don't look that healthy.

 

My LFS sells HM plakats
Some are full black and sometimes koi
They come from Thailand directly

 

Same for me, petco seems to have the best quality bettas.

 

Yea, my petco also had better water than my lfs

 

I'm pretty sure the water in some of my local Petsmart's betta containers was BLUE!!! And I really like how my LFS keeps their bettas, they always look so healthy! And I think I remember this one betta in Petsmart that I wished I could've saved, because he kept tipping over on his side and then struggling to upright himself again.

 

I'm pretty sure the water in some of my local Petsmart's betta containers was BLUE!!! And I really like how my LFS keeps their bettas, they always look so healthy! And I think I remember this one betta in Petsmart that I wished I could've saved, because he kept tipping over on his side and then struggling to upright himself again.

Every store is different.
I remember asking why some water is blue, apparently it's filled with meds of some kind.... not sure though.

 

Every store is different.
I remember asking why some water is blue, apparently it's filled with meds of some kind.... not sure though.

Yup, that's why I prefer my LFS!

 

I'm pretty sure the water in some of my local Petsmart's betta containers was BLUE!!! And I really like how my LFS keeps their bettas, they always look so healthy! And I think I remember this one betta in Petsmart that I wished I could've saved, because he kept tipping over on his side and then struggling to upright himself again.

The blue in the water is a tranquilliser to keep the fish calm in transit I believe

 

The blue in the water is a tranquilliser to keep the fish calm in transit I believe

So do they put the tranquilizer in the water ever time they change the water, or do they even change the water?

 

I doubt the water gets changed while the Bettas are being shipped

 

I'm pretty sure the water in some of my local Petsmart's betta containers was BLUE!!! And I really like how my LFS keeps their bettas, they always look so healthy! And I think I remember this one betta in Petsmart that I wished I could've saved, because he kept tipping over on his side and then struggling to upright himself again.

A few drops of Methylene blue are often added to improve oxygen absorption and prevent disease.

Regarding the questions in the OP:

Big box stores get their bettas, along with most of their fish, from various large-scale breeding farms in the states. Like Segrest farms or similar. They get their bettas primarily from Thailand.

Regarding the ethical questions raised, all I will say is that the breeders I know personally in SE asia keep their jarred bettas in immaculate water conditions. Many of them are among the wholesale providers that supply the US fish farms. Regarding their breeding practices, it's important to understand that the rest of the world has a different view, to which they are entitled, on the treatment of animals. We're talking about a country where fighting animals, including bettas, is still legal and very much socially acceptable. Where taking pure, endangered, wild type betta species and crossing them with B. splendens is commonplace. Where releasing fancy culls into wild type habitats is perfectly acceptable.

While I wouldn't do any of these things myself, I don't hold them against the people who do in Asia. It's part of the way the culture works there, just like their breeding practices.

 

Big box stores get their bettas, along with most of their fish, from various large-scale breeding farms in the states. Like Segrest farms or similar. They get their bettas primarily from Thailand.

Wait, question -- I thought the bettas were imported from Thailand to the US Distributor (my Petco is supplied by Tropical Fish International out of San Jose, CA), where they're then distributed to the big box stores all over the country.

Do you mean that only breeding bettas are imported from Thailand, bred in the U.S. (i.e., Segrest Farms), and those spawns are sent to the big box stores?

I'm not familiar with Segrest; our Petco is supplied by TFI.

^^ Interesting note, just visited Segrest's site and used their "Store Locator" -- my LFS with the poor looking bettas is supplied by Segrest! (However, they do have nice other fish.)

 

TFI is a distributor for several farms. I don't know if Segrest is one of them, never paid much attention. But I'd be willing to bet they get their bettas from ThaI breeders, the same as Segrest and the other big farm, which I can't remember the name of.

I am not saying that only breeder bettas are imported by the fish farms. As far as I know, none of the large-scale farms in the US actually breed bettas. They import them by the thousands and sell them to various big-box stores that they supply. Probably a very similar process to TFI.

I wouldn't blame the condition of the bettas in your LFS on the supplier Most of the time, it's poor care in-store that leads to betta health issues. Yes, plenty die in transit and never make it to the shelves, but if you have a store where all of the bettas look sick, I'd be more inclined to look at their care system than the supplier.

 

The betta's at my LFS vary. The 3 I've gotten from him are quite beautiful. I've looked at other pet stores in the surrounding areas including petsmart, and the only betta's I'm a little turned off by are at walmart.

 

The bettas at my LFS are gorgeous, simply put. The bettas at my local Petsmart and Walmart I just feel sorry for.

 

Ironically Segrest farms is about a 30 minute drive from where I live. My LFS uses them as their main supplier. Ill have to peek at the Bettas next time I'm there. This is indeed an interesting thread, its always fascinated me how the whole process works from the source to our tanks.

 

This is an interesting thread! I do very much intend to ask my LFS about their bettas the next time I go in there! It's like, I'm falling more and more in love with bettas by the second!

 

I bought my betta from Petsmart, which is really not much different from Petco. I don't know much about the environmental footprint of betta fish, but from a standpoint of ethics (to a degree), every time I see the stacks of betta fish in their tiny little cups I feel bad for them. I dunno. They are so popular because they can survive in very little water. This encourages a lot of people to put them in very small containers (myself included at one point). I think that marketing them as the fish you can keep in a cup has some ethical dilemmas. It implies they are more of a decoration than a living thing. Sure, they will live, but is that a happy life for the fish? Just my thoughts on this.

 

That just makes me sad.

 

:'(

 

This article is so out of date, it's almost comical. Firstly there is nothing wrong with shipping bettas in that size bag with that much water. As long as there's enough water to keep the fish submerged and keep the water moving, more air is better than more water. You don't want a fish to be able to move when it's being shipped, as that can cause them to injure themselves.

As far as keeping bettas in cups - where else would you suggest the breeders, distributors, and store keep them? They can't go in the store tanks with other fish. Disease will spread if they're kept on a closed, recirculating system of individual betta tanks. Honestly a small, quarantined cup is better than those alternatives, and since they often have thousands of bettas at breeders and distributors, there's no way they could use something larger. In fact, it's this reason alone that I will still buy bettas from big box stores. My petco doesn't do very frequent water changes in their betta cups, but at least that means the mycobacterium that's in every single store I've ever been to, isn't in the betta cups.

Domestic bettas are not very susceptible to velvet, which the article lists as a big source of disease. Velvet is common among wild anabantids, but not the fancy, farm bred varieties.

Round tails are not fighters. In fact any true round tail betta in a fight with a real fighter would probably get killed. "Fighter" bettas are traditional style plakats in shape and size, bred for hard scales, short, hard-to-tear fins, and sharp teeth. Round tails are what happens when you cross a fancy plakat with a veiltail, then breed out the spade shape in the caudal, leaving you with a round fin.

And probably most importantly, bloodworms are nowhere near an approximation of mosquito larvae. Bloodworms are a type of fly larvae, and they are way too fatty to even be compared to mosquito larvae. Mosquito larvae are high in protein and fiber, two things that bloodworms are severely lacking. That's what makes them such good betta food if you don't mind harvesting mosquitos in your backyard.

 

Huge betta lover here and I agree that I hate seeing them in thise tiny cups uncleaned and filthy itsnjust sad one of my petco stores near by finally takes good care of them but still I see others pet stores it just makes me sick

yes they have no where alse to put the betta in but not cleaning the darn cups? I see most of them not lively or moving

 

My LFS has glass container like things they keep theirs in. I don't know where they get theirs from but I'll ask them when I go next time. Also the container actually has a hole the size of my finger in the middle of the tops. They may not be much better but it's a little better than the normal cups.

 

I saw how they come in at Petco. They are in these tiny little bags that I swear are no bigger than twice the fish. They stuff them in a bigger bag and ship them. Makes you want to take them all home. The little bags are filled with a blue medicated water. No wonder my Beta is happy!! Heck...he is in the presidential suite.

 

They put bettas in those conditions to not stress them out. Shocking, but true
The medicated water prevents any sickness during the shipping
The small bags are used so they can't move or hurt themselves

 

They put bettas in those conditions to not stress them out. Shocking, but true
The medicated water prevents any sickness during the shipping
The small bags are used so they can't move or hurt themselves

If you had seen how they were handling the fish...throwing the bag around..it SHOCKS me just how these fish can survive all that. Betas have got to be one of the sturdiest fish available.

 

These videos are readily available on YouTube (PETA did an investigation on how these fish are shipped in the tiny bags) - I don't know if I can post the link here per forum rules (animal cruelty?)

I don't think it's particularly cruel. I'm just amazed how they are able to survive that.

 

Xysis said, "I bought my betta from Petsmart, which is really not much different from Petco. I don't know much about the environmental footprint of betta fish, but from a standpoint of ethics (to a degree), every time I see the stacks of betta fish in their tiny little cups I feel bad for them."


Every time I go into a chain pet store, I want to save them all I feel so bad for them!

 

I asked my LFS about where they got their bettas from, and the guy was pretty brief on it. He basically said that they get their bettas from all different places.

Oh, and the bettas in my LFS are very well taken care of imo. They are in glass/plastic bowls, with no lids, and not stacked on top of each other. I think I saw a few in that cascading falls betta tank, the one that can house three bettas. And I may've seen one in a nice-sized vase when I went in some time ago. Very proud of my LFS!

 

There is ONE store in my area that actually gets some real nice Bettas. When I bought the Crown Tail Betta in my avatar, they had gotten in a jet black CrownTail with bright yellow on all the fin extensions. It was breathtaking. After seeing that specimen...I'm going to keep hawking out that store until they get another colorful selection in. They have them in the standard plastic tupperware cup with an LED light behind them. They sell so fast at that store. Especially on Mondays. They have buy one get one free up to a $25 fish. GREAT value. However..they are a bit more expensive than most...when they have this sale...it's a good deal.

That is why it is so hard NOT to overstock your tank! You just want to keep buying all the neat ones!

 

Sounds like a great deal! I don't think mine runs deals like that, if they do I've never heard of them. Mine does have some of the prettiest bettas I've ever seen though, so I know what you're talking about!

 

This thread has been quite informative for me. I got my betta at one of the Feeder's Supply's in my area. I'd been looking for months at the LFS as well as "big box" stores for a few months, but never seemed to find any fish that looked healthy and alert or interactive. They all looked depressed and clamped up. Maybe I got lucky, but I went into a branch I'd not been to before, and all the bettas looked alert, relaxed, and did not have torn up fins. It was hard to pick out the one I wanted, but I finally decided on him and brought him home. Then a few weeks later went back into the same store, and all the bettas looked sickly. I did not realize many are actually imported from Thailand. What a stressful journey that must be for a sentient being (yes, I do believe fish are sentient and aware). I believe I will find out where the different pet stores in my area source their bettas from, for my own knowledge. I don't like the idea of supporting an unethical industry, and when I get another betta down the road (it will happen, I'm sure!) I'd rather my dollars support the most humane and caring organization or local individual I can find.

 

When you have to nudge the little cup three or 4 times to get him to move...you tend to feel bad for them. I went to a Petsmart in my area one time..and I was looking at the Bettas...they had a ton! There was no one stationed at the fish area..so as I was going through at least 50 or so cups, I picked out 7 that were plain ol' fashioned DEAD. Stacked them on their little work station for them to dispose of. One of the Petcos about 20 miles from my home has a great selection of some very pretty Bettas. I bought one a few weeks ago. He is cobalt blue with white fins all the way around the edges. Beautiful.

PLUS....I went down to the store that offers 2 for 1 and bought two Angelicus Botias for $8.99. They were about 3 1/2 " long. Nice find!!

 

When you have to nudge the little cup three or 4 times to get him to move...you tend to feel bad for them. I went to a Petsmart in my area one time..and I was looking at the Bettas...they had a ton! There was no one stationed at the fish area..so as I was going through at least 50 or so cups, I picked out 7 that were plain ol' fashioned DEAD. Stacked them on their little work station for them to dispose of. One of the Petcos about 20 miles from my home has a great selection of some very pretty Bettas. I bought one a few weeks ago. He is cobalt blue with white fins all the way around the edges. Beautiful.

PLUS....I went down to the store that offers 2 for 1 and bought two Angelicus Botias for $8.99. They were about 3 1/2 " long. Nice find!!

My petsmarts bettas were iffy looking when I was there last night returning my gourami. None dead, a couple looked kinda sickly though. Regarding Petco, I hope you're talking about the one on University and Cattleman in Sarasota, as I'm actually gonna try to make a trip there after work to find a nice betta. Ill try and remember to ask where they get theirs from.

 

My petsmarts bettas were iffy looking when I was there last night returning my gourami. None dead, a couple looked kinda sickly though. Regarding Petco, I hope you're talking about the one on University and Cattleman in Sarasota, as I'm actually gonna try to make a trip there after work to find a nice betta. Ill try and remember to ask where they get theirs from.

Actually..the Petco in Palm Harbor in Pinellas has the best selection..quantity wise and also has some gorgeous Bettas. Their fish selection is really weak..but the department is well laid out for dry goods and they carry DOZENS of Bettas. Also..the Animal house on 34th St in St Petersburg is who has the buy one get one free deal on Mondays. The Animal House is where I got the Betta in my Avatar.

Therefore..you could buy one Betta..and get one free!! If it's free..it's for meeeeee!!!



It seems to me that Petco always has the best selection of Bettas. The store in Pinellas Park always has a good stock of livestock. Antoine is the department manager there..and he does well in keeping some pretty neat species of freshwater fish. I think he might be leaving to up north this next month though.

 

I'm in Bradenton, so I don't usually make it up that way too often. We have I think 2 Petco stores here, hopefully I get lucky at the first one.

 

Mosquito larvae are high in protein and fiber, two things that bloodworms are severely lacking. That's what makes them such good betta food if you don't mind harvesting mosquitos in your backyard.

I live in Florida...shouldnt be too darn hard to get mosquito larvae. Just sit outside in the backyard without a screen. Let's not even TALK about no-seeums.