Ethics, Fish Food, and Nano Fish

(note: this post is not a criticism of others ethics/morals and fish-keeping; I'm just concerned with making aquarium keeping better suit my own ethics/morals. As an aside, I am sure that my past fish-keeping has been more unethical than most here (as can probably be deduced from some of my past emergency posts)--I have been very impressed with the care shown for fish by those in the forum)

I would like my aquarium keeping to better match my own ethics/morals. One of the most significant obstacles to this is fish food, and more specifically flake food. I have been unable to find a flake food that does not contain fish meal or whole fish. This is a problem to me because A. I am interested in keeping nano fish (chili rasboras, ember tetras, endlers, etc.) that assumedly would not eat many, if any fish in the wild; and B. because my own ethics make it difficult to justify killing fish to keep fish as pets, particularly when those fish do not even require fish protein to survive (as is the case with many nano fish I think). So I have two questions:
A. Is anyone aware of flake food that does not contain fish fillets, fish meal, or whole fish, or that uses unused portions of fish from human-food processing plants ? (I am OK with fish products like fish oil) I do know that protein is necessary for fish, so I suppose my question is whether there are flake food products that use shrimp/krill/worms/insects for protein instead of fish? (the spirulina products that I have looked at still contain fish)
B. If not, would a long-term diet of frozen/live baby brine shrimp and/or home-cooked vegetables, supplemented by tubifex worms be sufficient to meet the nutritional needs of nano fish? I suspect it would--during the short time I previously kept chili rasboras I fed mostly frozen baby brine shrimp.
Thank you for any and all thoughts/advice!
(and yes, at its simplest, I do think it justifiable to feed shrimp/worms to small fish; I just struggle with the ethics of feeding fish products to fish that do not require fish protein)

 

+1 for the BBS. All of my tetra colonies eat BBS 95% of the time (5% daphnia). Perfect food for our little micro-predators.

 

Bug bites would probably be the way to go for you, as they claim their protein is from fly larvae, though i have never seen an ingredients list on their packaging. I do know all my fish jist love them, though

 

Bug bites would probably be the way to go for you, as they claim their protein is from fly larvae, though i have never seen an ingredients list on their packaging. I do know all my fish jist love them, though

Thanks, though unfortunately the Amazon description (after first emphasizing the insects), also states: " . In addition to BSFL, Bug Bites offer other excellent protein sources such as Herring & Shrimp Meal, which are also rich in Omega-3 for healthy skin, scales, fins and colors. " Unless there is an insect-only version?

+1 for the BBS. All of my tetra colonies eat BBS 95% of the time (5% daphnia). Perfect food for our little micro-predators.

Thanks! Glad/great to know this works long-term!

 

Thanks, though unfortunately the Amazon description (after first emphasizing the insects), also states: " . In addition to BSFL, Bug Bites offer other excellent protein sources such as Herring & Shrimp Meal, which are also rich in Omega-3 for healthy skin, scales, fins and colors. " Unless there is an insect-only version?

Not that i am aware of. Considering most of what i have had in the past are straight carnivores...never looked into things too deep beyond the ingredients list on the label. Other than bug bites, i have pretty well stayed away from the no ingredient lists.

 

Daphnia, worms etc are great source of protein and natural hunting, and you can either get them frozen or buy a colony and grow yourself.

 

Not that i am aware of. Considering most of what i have had in the past are straight carnivores...never looked into things too deep beyond the ingredients list on the label. Other than bug bites, i have pretty well stayed away from the no ingredient lists.

Right, and I would feel differently about this too if keeping fish that naturally eat other fish (which I probably will again at some point). Just doesn't feel quite right to feed fish to fish that don't really need to eat fish.

Daphnia, worms etc are great source of protein and natural hunting, and you can either get them frozen or buy a colony and grow yourself.

Very helpful, thank you!

 

Right, and I would feel differently about this too if keeping fish that naturally eat other fish (which I probably will again at some point). Just doesn't feel quite right to feed fish to fish that don't really need to eat fish.

Very helpful, thank you!

I’d wager most of the rasbora species eat their fry, or fry of species they cohabitate with given the opportunity. If it moves it’s lunch, and if they eat some plant matter on accident, so be it. Nature is harsh

 

Its not hard to make your own fish food. I got crickit flower to add to my ingredient list As I was sick of all the foods full of junk wheat and grain fillers.

 

I’d wager most of the rasbora species eat their fry, or fry of species they cohabitate with given the opportunity. If it moves it’s lunch, and if they eat some plant matter on accident, so be it. Nature is harsh

Sorry for the delayed reply. Yes, I'm sure this is true, though I would wager that the amount of fish protein consumed by such species is less than that contained in fish foods aimed at a broad range of species, including many that are much larger. But an interesting/thought-provoking post--thank you!

 

Not a flake food, but repashy bottom scratcher is suitable for carnivores. If you are feeding micro predators, repashy sink to the bottom quickly and can get messy, just fyi.

 

I know this is an old post but for anyone else that comes across it, I think Dennerle makes fish food that doesn't contain fish!

 

I know this is an old post but for anyone else that comes across it, I think Dennerle makes fish food that doesn't contain fish!

Thank you very much for posting this here! I think this is fantastic, and could resolve a significant ethical concern regarding aquariums for folks like me. I just looked this up on their site and this looks to be right. Interesting, they claim that their concern is economic rather than ethical/moral.

A link to one of their products is below. What do others think? Could this be used regularly as a replacement for fish-based products? I.e. does it seem nutritionally sound to you?DENNERLE Complete Flakes | 100 ml / 200 ml / 1 Liter.

*unfortunately do not see this product listed on the massive internet site used for most purchases here in the US, and so unsure if this is available to those of in US waters.

 

The ingredients look good to me. It does contain fish oil if that is a concern. Also does your concern extend to crustaceans and molluscs? Because it also contains krill and cuttlefish. Cuttlefish are a very intelligent animal.

Another thing to consider is the waste that you end up with when using flakes. I think micro pellets are a less wasteful food for nano fish.

 

Nano fish dont even have to be fed under the right conditions so avoiding fish based meals should be quite easy

I havent cracked the code but lots of sunlight and plants tend to create sustainable environments where I dont have to feed for months.

Check out Father Fish youtube channel, he says small fish do not need to be fed if using a mineral rich subtrate. Havent tried it myself though.

 

I run heavily planted tanks in my basement containing Dario black tiger fish. I can spot copepods in those tanks if I do my best. But I also have to do my best to spot the Dario, so that tells you something about those tanks. I do additionally feed em once or twice a week artemia nauplii.

Trying to make a decent picture of this; I find it to be almost impossible. I gave it a shot with a Dario and copepods in the same image. I did stir up the water to allow Dario fish to come out and inspect what is going on. So here is an image (or an attempt; my tanks are heavily dimmed with ferns, mosses, crypts, buces, spiderwood and leaves) of a Dario black tiger and at least 2 copepods. In the next moment, she starting hunting those copepods.... I should make a video one day.

These fish are third or fourth generation bred in my tanks; so about those ethics....

Edit: so I think I nailed it. I made a video on the exact same spot. Hope this works: Dario hunting (this is after I stirred things up again; it's not all copepods that are passing by)

 

I'll just address some of the basic things in this thread.

Many small fish like tetras and rasbora will readily eat carrion (also of their own species) and their own eggs/fry.

Fish food is often a mess nutritionally.
I would not necessary avoid fish in it (which is hard enough), but much more avoid carbohydrates. Fishfood containing wheat flour, corn meal, legumes (soy) or the like is fattening fish due to empty calories. Wheat protein (gluten) is fine as a binder.

With fish meal I have a different issue. Prions. These are proteins that can lead to nerve and organ damage, for example resulting in BSE in cattle, scrapie in sheep or kuru in humans. And they have been found in animal meals including fish meal. While there is not much research done yet about this, I suspect many of the chronic problems we see in our fish might be coming from this.

Still, fish meal and grains are used as fillers and binders with no nutritional value.

Insects, crustaceans and mollusks should be fed in different forms to carnivorous fish for sure, though.

I'd definitely prefer to feed a diet of live and frozen foods and ommit dry foods almost completely. My fish get pellets (without fish or grains) from a german store brand (sorry, can't find any english language vendors.) only when I have no live artemia or frozen food at hand (so max once a week).

 

The ingredients look good to me. It does contain fish oil if that is a concern. Also does your concern extend to crustaceans and molluscs? Because it also contains krill and cuttlefish. Cuttlefish are a very intelligent animal.

Another thing to consider is the waste that you end up with when using flakes. I think micro pellets are a less wasteful food for nano fish.

Oh well. I somehow overlooked cuttlefish in the ingredient list; the use of cuttlefish does in fact bother me just as much as (if not more than) fish.

Nano fish dont even have to be fed under the right conditions so avoiding fish based meals should be quite easy

I havent cracked the code but lots of sunlight and plants tend to create sustainable environments where I dont have to feed for months.

Check out Father Fish youtube channel, he says small fish do not need to be fed if using a mineral rich subtrate. Havent tried it myself though.

I like Father Fish and a couple of other Youtube 'disciples' of him. I don't think I would go all the way in not feeding them either, but I would like to get to a point where my tank is seeded with copepods/other life as described by ruud (really cool photo even if grainy!).

 

Oh well. I somehow overlooked cuttlefish in the ingredient list; the use of cuttlefish does in fact bother me just as much as (if not more than) fish.

I like Father Fish and a couple of other Youtube 'disciples' of him. I don't think I would go all the way in not feeding them either, but I would like to get to a point where my tank is seeded with copepods/other life as described by ruud (really cool photo even if grainy!).

I've found that open-top tanks can attract quite a large number of insects. If it's near a window or garbage-can then even more

 

I've found that open-top tanks can attract quite a large number of insects. If it's near a window or garbage-can then even more

Yes they do! How great is that. The tanks I have without fish, is problematic though. Every summer I can scoop out dragonfly larvea that have an appetite for my shrimp.

Speaking of which; neocaridina shrimp are also great providers of live foods (shrimplets) for fish. If heavily planted and heavily understocked with fish, some shrimplets even survive.

 

Speaking of which; neocaridina shrimp are also great providers of live foods (shrimplets) for fish. If heavily planted and heavily understocked with fish, some shrimplets even survive.

My Apistogramma always love the shrimplets.

 

I know this was posted a year ago but maybe you could look into Repashy Super Green Vegan Algea Gel Mix.

Description:
Our Formula for Obligate Algae Eating Herbivorous Freshwater Fish and Invertebrates. Contains No Animal Products or Byproducts.