Question Epsom Salt And Aquarium Salt Together?

Katestanks02

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Currently I have a new goldfish in qt that I think has popeye. The qt tank already has 0.1% salinity. I was reading that an epsom salt bath could help draw the fluid out and I wanted to try it. I’ve been reading some mixed opinions on mixing them.
Normally I would just scoop out some of the water from the tank to use for the bath so the parameters match. Would this be ok to do?

As far as the popeye goes I purchased the fish online, it’s a butterfly telescope, and it’s eyes were even in the picture. When it came in they were uneven and I figured it was damage or something from shipping. I thought since the fish would be in qt with some salt it would get better on it’s own. Tonight I think it looks bigger than it did, only one eye is affected. I also purchased two other butterfly telescopes and they are fine. Do you guys think the Epsom salt would help?
I’ll include some pictures too.
 

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CheshireKat

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You might, but I would use fresh water that's been dechlorinated/treated for the Epsom salt bath.
If the fish might've been injured during shipping zit might be worth to try Paraguard in case the fish has an infection. Salt may or may not be sufficient at treating the infection, but it's hard to say.
It definitely looks like something happened to the eyes, all right. Definitely do the Epsom salt baths and see if that helps.
 
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Katestanks02

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You might, but I would use fresh water that's been dechlorinated/treated for the Epsom salt bath.
If the fish might've been injured during shipping zit might be worth to try Paraguard in case the fish has an infection. Salt may or may not be sufficient at treating the infection, but it's hard to say.
It definitely looks like something happened to the eyes, all right. Definitely do the Epsom salt baths and see if that helps.
I just didn’t know if putting it in fresh water with the epsom salt would be a shock since they have salt in the qt tank now. I’m not ready to take the salt out of the tank because I saw that one of the goldfish had some ich spots, very minor it’s already cleared up. I planned on leaving it in the tub for 10 days to make sure it’s gone, it’s been 4 days. I also have neoplex in the tub just as part of my qt process since I noticed the eye injury and one of the other fish’s dorsal was ripped and red. Honestly these fish came in with so many problems, I don’t plan on ordering from the company again.
 

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I just didn’t know if putting it in fresh water with the epsom salt would be a shock since they have salt in the qt tank now.
Ah, I see your point. That's a tough situation. I don't want to advise either way because I don't want to take responsibility if something goes wrong, if you get what I mean. It's kind of a personal call.

I also have neoplex in the tub just as part of my qt process since I noticed the eye injury and one of the other fish’s dorsal was ripped and red.
Ah, okay, then, that probably will work fine then.

Honestly these fish came in with so many problems, I don’t plan on ordering from the company again.
I don't blame you. It it a goldfish company or a general fish one?

If the fish might've been injured during shipping zit might be worth to try Paraguard i
I just realized I wrote "zit" instead of "it." What, did I suddenly break out in accent? :emoji_sweat_smile:
 

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I've had a situation where I needed to use both salt and Epsom in treatment, much like what you're doing where I had them in a longer-term QT with the salt and wanted to keep them in that. I was treating for unknown issue resulting in dropsy (without pineconed scales) in a few guppies; I had a couple of males that honestly looked like pregnant females, but weren't acting like they felt ill (eating normally, pooping normally, swimming around normally.)

Being unsure whether it would be a good idea to combine Epsom and regular salt long-term, I instead took some of that saline QT water and put it in a smaller container (big enough for the fish) and then added the Epsom to that. Made sure it was dissolved, then netted the fish out and into that smaller container with the Epsom. Left them in for a 30-min bath, and then returned them to the regular QT and discarded the Epsom-added water. Repeated the bath on successive days until the fish was back to normal, or at least as close as it was going to get.

So while I can't comment on the combination of Epsom and regular long-term, I can say that I didn't kill any of the fish I tried it with in a bath that way.

This was one of them just before I put it into the QT. Surprising that his scales were completely flat even with that huge belly.

20181226_150443.jpg

It survived the treatment and the Epsom did help reduce the swelling. This particular one never completely returned to a normal slim/trim male figure, but at least didn't look like a pregnant female any longer. It lived for several more months after this, acting like a normal guppy male - chasing the ladies, and showing off to the other males.
 
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Katestanks02

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I don't blame you. It it a goldfish company or a general fish one?

I just realized I wrote "zit" instead of "it." What, did I suddenly break out in accent? :emoji_sweat_smile:
Hahaha I figured it was a typo.

It was goldfish island. I ordered from them once before. That time one fish came in with ammonia burns and lice. I thought I’d try one more time because they got in all these beautiful butterfly telescopes. But nope...never again.
 
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Katestanks02

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I've had a situation where I needed to use both salt and Epsom in treatment, much like what you're doing where I had them in a longer-term QT with the salt and wanted to keep them in that. I was treating for unknown issue resulting in dropsy (without pineconed scales) in a few guppies; I had a couple of males that honestly looked like pregnant females, but weren't acting like they felt ill (eating normally, pooping normally, swimming around normally.)

Being unsure whether it would be a good idea to combine Epsom and regular salt long-term, I instead took some of that saline QT water and put it in a smaller container (big enough for the fish) and then added the Epsom to that. Made sure it was dissolved, then netted the fish out and into that smaller container with the Epsom. Left them in for a 30-min bath, and then returned them to the regular QT and discarded the Epsom-added water. Repeated the bath on successive days until the fish was back to normal, or at least as close as it was going to get.

So while I can't comment on the combination of Epsom and regular long-term, I can say that I didn't kill any of the fish I tried it with in a bath that way.

This was one of them just before I put it into the QT. Surprising that his scales were completely flat even with that huge belly.

View attachment 582404

It survived the treatment and the Epsom did help reduce the swelling. This particular one never completely returned to a normal slim/trim male figure, but at least didn't look like a pregnant female any longer. It lived for several more months after this, acting like a normal guppy male - chasing the ladies, and showing off to the other males.
Thank you! I was planning on just doing a bath since it’s just the one fish having the eye issue.
 

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I've had a situation where I needed to use both salt and Epsom in treatment, much like what you're doing where I had them in a longer-term QT with the salt and wanted to keep them in that. I was treating for unknown issue resulting in dropsy (without pineconed scales) in a few guppies; I had a couple of males that honestly looked like pregnant females, but weren't acting like they felt ill (eating normally, pooping normally, swimming around normally.)

Being unsure whether it would be a good idea to combine Epsom and regular salt long-term, I instead took some of that saline QT water and put it in a smaller container (big enough for the fish) and then added the Epsom to that. Made sure it was dissolved, then netted the fish out and into that smaller container with the Epsom. Left them in for a 30-min bath, and then returned them to the regular QT and discarded the Epsom-added water. Repeated the bath on successive days until the fish was back to normal, or at least as close as it was going to get.

So while I can't comment on the combination of Epsom and regular long-term, I can say that I didn't kill any of the fish I tried it with in a bath that way.

This was one of them just before I put it into the QT. Surprising that his scales were completely flat even with that huge belly.

View attachment 582404

It survived the treatment and the Epsom did help reduce the swelling. This particular one never completely returned to a normal slim/trim male figure, but at least didn't look like a pregnant female any longer. It lived for several more months after this, acting like a normal guppy male - chasing the ladies, and showing off to the other males.
Wow, that's a big belly. It was just bloat, no parasite or anything? I'm always interested in ppl's experiences, what works, what doesn't and results.

@Katestanks02 I'm not sure about mixing the two but I'm following to find out. They are different compounds, but sodium chloride salt makes you retain fluids....I think the bath is a good idea tho, especially since it worked for Oriongal.
 
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Wow, that's a big belly. It was just bloat, no parasite or anything? I'm always interested in ppl's experiences, what works, what doesn't and results.

@Katestanks02 I'm not sure about mixing the two but I'm following to find out. They are different compounds, but sodium chloride salt makes you retain fluids....I think the bath is a good idea tho, especially since it worked for Oriongal.
I’m going to change their water tonight, do you think the bath would be good to do or should I just redose their antibiotics. The eye looks a little bigger today too.
 

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Wow, that's a big belly. It was just bloat, no parasite or anything? I'm always interested in ppl's experiences, what works, what doesn't and results.
I thought it was one of the gals initially, was quite impressed with such color and pattern on a female. Until I got a closer look at it, and realized it wasn't a spectacularly-marked pregnant female after all. [These are in the outside pool/pond, so I don't get a good look at them every day.]

I don't know for sure what it was, but pretty sure it wasn't digestive bloat; pretty sure it was disease-related fluid retention. My best guess would be the usual suspects for dropsy, such as Aeromonas or Pseudomonas.

Likely opportunistic infection of stressed fish; it was only a few of them (he was the worst by far), and was not too long after I'd set up that outside holding as well. I believe I was still chasing water-quality a bit and had had some ammonia spikes.

I was surprised that he recovered from being that bad off as well. He never lost all the swelling completely, I could still pick him out from above (by his sides sticking out more than other males) even months later; but it didn't seem to hamper him any.
 

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I’m going to change their water tonight, do you think the bath would be good to do or should I just redose their antibiotics. The eye looks a little bigger today too.
I'm not an antibiotic person, so can't help there, but I would use methylene blue if I had it. It can be used with sodium chloride and magnesium sulfate. It would help disinfect the wound, facilitate oxygen uptake thru the gills, bump immune. I'd keep him in mblue for a week and hopefully the eye heals in that time. I do think Epsom Salts are a good idea though, to help relieve some of the buildup pressure.

Looking at the pics tho, both eyes look big in the online pic. If anything, one eye looks smaller now? I'm really not familiar telescope goldfish, so how does the goldfish in question's eyes compare to the 'normal' ones? I'm just not so sure there's even a problem since these fish are bred to have bulgy eyes?
 

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I'm not an antibiotic person, so can't help there, but I would use methylene blue if I had it. It can be used with sodium chloride and magnesium sulfate.
I also am a fan of methylene blue - was surprised when I got back into the hobby (after a break of nearly two decades) that it wasn't always stocked everywhere these days. Salt and mblue are still the first things I reach for when I am unsure what I'm dealing with. I figured it just marked me as a bit of a dinosaur.

Looking at the pics tho, both eyes look big in the online pic. If anything, one eye looks smaller now? I'm really not familiar telescope goldfish, so how does the goldfish in question's eyes compare to the 'normal' ones? I'm just not so sure there's even a problem since these fish are bred to have bulgy eyes?
I think it's that the right eye is bulged out farther than the left, and the right eye is also out farther from one pic to the next? Seems to be the case between the pics marked 'Saturday' and 'Tonight'. Do agree that the left also looks smaller from the pic marked Original to the Saturday pic, but not sure if that's intended to be the same fish or just representative.
 

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I also am a fan of methylene blue - was surprised when I got back into the hobby (after a break of nearly two decades) that it wasn't always stocked everywhere these days. Salt and mblue are still the first things I reach for when I am unsure what I'm dealing with. I figured it just marked me as a bit of a dinosaur.



I think it's that the right eye is bulged out farther than the left, and the right eye is also out farther from one pic to the next? Seems to be the case between the pics marked 'Saturday' and 'Tonight'. Do agree that the left also looks smaller from the pic marked Original to the Saturday pic, but not sure if that's intended to be the same fish or just representative.
Lol, I guess I'm a bit of a dinosaur too then But really, with all the controversy surrounding antibiotic resistence, coupled with the fact that they are now banned in my country, we are looking for alternative methods to treat sick fish. Technically mblue is also restricted here (has been for 10 years I think) as well as every other fish med, but Kordon's mblue bottle was not a problem to order in. I'd just rather use mblue or peroxide over antibiotics. Never had luck when I used to use them, but mblue took care of mild finrot with just one swab treatment.
 
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I have no idea what’s going on with it’s eyes. The one that looks smaller now than the pictures online to me looks normal. So I don’t know if it had pop eye in both eyes and one got resolved and one is getting worse. No idea, the right is getting a little bigger each day. I did an epsom salt bath and went ahead and redosed the neoplex. I typically don’t use antibiotics in qt unless I see injuries or an obvious infections. I’d rather use salt, especially for goldfish since they tolerate it very well. I haven’t used mblue before, I kind of thought it was just for fugal infections.

It’s the same fish in all of the pictures, I don’t really know what was going on with him before I got it. Based off of all the fish I received it’s possible it could’ve been having issues before I got it, since all of them came in with problems. It’s hard to say what the baseline is for this fish since it’s new.

Do you guys think I should removed the neoplex and switch to mblue with the salt? And still continue epsom salt baths on the one with the eye issue.

The two other fish had different issues. One came in with a ripped dorsal that was very red around the wound and a suspicious white patch on its tail. The redness is completely gone and the dorsal looks much better. The white patch is still there but now I’m wondering if it’s a marking and not fungus. I think if it was fungus the salt alone should’ve cleared it up.
The third fish just had ich, which is why I put the salt in. It’s been two days without seeing any spots. It only had a few and I think I caught it very early. I think I could take the salt out. It also had some torn up fins which have healed up pretty well.

I didn’t know if it would be ok to put the mblue in with all of them or if I should try to separate the one with eye issues. I’d rather keep them together since the tub they’re in is cycled already. I don’t really want to have to set up another qt.
 
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It's a tough call (stopping the NeoPlex) since you can't really be sure what the underlying cause is. If it was due to injury, salt and methylene blue should be enough to keep secondary infection at bay, while Epsom salts baths should reduce the swelling.

But if it's from an internal bacterial infection, I'd think the NeoPlex would be more effective. (And if it was poor water quality of course, just being in clean water is the main thing.)

As far as I know you can use methylene blue with most of the antibiotic and antiprotozoan meds; you can probably ask Seachem directly. Spruce Pets site says don't use it with Erythromycin or Tetracycline, but doesn't say why. (ref: Methylene Blue as an Anti-Fungal & Anti-Parasitic for Aquarium Fish)

If the fish's injury/infection isn't external, I'd think the only benefit methylene blue would offer in this situation would be the blood-oxygenation. Which could be a mild benefit in a sort of stress reduction/immune support way, but not strictly necessary. It would probably help more with the torn fins and ich treatment for the others.

I don't think you need to worry too much about having a cycled QT - I'd expect a broad-spectrum like Neo to kill the cycle anyway. I tend to just QT/hospital in a 5-gal bucket or two that I only use for that purpose, only set up when I need it. Fill, Prime, drop in an airstone and a hide or two (heater if needed), add whatever I'm treating the fish with, acclimate them, and that's about it. I also keep a few clear-sided Tupperware that I can put the fish into every day while I'm doing a water change on the bucket. Also allows me to get a good side-view of them before putting them back in.

Hopefully your fish will get better, fingers crossed.
 
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I didn’t know if it would be ok to put the mblue in with all of them or if I should try to separate the one with eye issues. I’d rather keep them together since the tub they’re in is cycled already. I don’t really want to have to set up another qt.
You got good info already, but I just wanted to let you know the mblue would kill your cycle. Typically it's used in a hospital tank where staining doesn't matter with daily water changes . The mblue actually protects the fish against nitrogen poisoning anyway, so a cycle really doesn't matter in this case.

If you are using the antibiotic, the mblue wouldn't be a huge benefit. It's really to protect the fish and boots immune so it can heal easier and more comfortably.

I'm curious about the others' eyes. How do their eyes compare in size? I know, this is difficult because the fish are new. But if they all came in with problems, and it looks like they might have started on the sellers end, have you contacted them at all?
 
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Katestanks02

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I'm curious about the others' eyes. How do their eyes compare in size? I know, this is difficult because the fish are new. But if they all came in with problems, and it looks like they might have started on the sellers end, have you contacted them at all?
The other two are larger goldfish so I can’t really go by the size of their eyes. They both have even eyes and I haven’t noticed them change one way or another. So I’m assuming they’re fine. All of their issues are gone except the mysterious white patch on ones tail. I did go back on the site to check if it’s a marking but you can kind of see it in one picture, it’s not as noticeable as it is in person. I’ll include a picture of all three of them.
I haven’t contacted the seller, I hate complaining but I know I should.

So far the neoplex hasn’t killed my cycled it’s been in there for a week.

Thanks for all your information, hopefully the eye will get better. I think I’ll continue the antibiotic just incase it is an internal infection. I’m leaning towards that because in the original picture both eyes were swollen.
 

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angelcraze

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Ok tx, that's what I was thinking though, the left eye (which looks smaller now) might be the normal size. In any case, I wish the both of you luck and i'm glad the others are doing well now under your care. I don't like complaining either, but that was a lot of problems. They couldn't have been kept in good conditions since they all came in with symptoms of being kept in fouled water. At least I wouldn't order from there again if it was me.
 
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I just wanted to give an update. So I continued to do epsom salt baths and finished treating him with the antibiotics, the eye still looks the same. I moved him out of qt because it never got worse and the other two fish never developed any issues. I’ve decided to name him Lops. Lol. After I moved him to the tank, being able to see the eye better I did notice a line going down the eye right next to the pupil. So maybe it was a injury. I was reading up on some other telescope’s eyes staying enlarged after an injury.
Here’s a little video of him looking for more food after feeding time.
 
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