Endler's and hybrids: Comma Bars and Original Peacocks versus Chili Endler's

So I've been trying to figure out just what I have. I was assuming that my group is just comma bars, but then I was reading that the original peacock also has a spot of black on the tail with other colors around it. My boys have that, too, so are they a mix of comma bar and peacock? A mystery.

As for the male Chilis that I got recently, as soon as I saw them, I suspected that they couldn't be N class, and yes, I've now found sources that say that Chilis (also called Scarlet) are definitely hybrids. I think these guys are beautiful, but they're going to stay in the Endler's boy tank because I can't deal with a separate population--I'm spending enough hours looking for a gonopodium with a magnifying glass!

 

I love your threads. Now stop talking about new types of endlers you're going to give me MTS. ;D

 

I would love to see where you found that information, pretty please I've been trying to research chilI endlers and haven't had much luck.

 

I would love to see where you found that information, pretty please I've been trying to research chilI endlers and haven't had much luck.

Here's one of the threads I found discussing Chili/Scarlet Endler's. I haven't been able to view the pics yet because I can't get an account opened. Sigh. I'm going to have to ask my 11-year-old for help



It's been very confusing because I still haven't gotten a response from the admin for Endler-Poecilia WingeI on Facebook, and there are pictures there of Chili/Scarlets. They also have people looking at each other's fish photos and judging whether or not they're N class. At any rate, I have not been able to find a description of Chilis in the lists of original patterns.

Now, I want a black pectoral Endler! It's a recessive gene that used to show in 20% and has vitually disappeared I've been trying to find photos and am still working on searching in English and Spanish. If you find a picture or any info before I do, please let me know!

 

I love your threads. Now stop talking about new types of endlers you're going to give me MTS. ;D

Love the updated text on your avatar's sign!

Here's a place to buy *real* Endler's in their assorted patterns:



Oh, man, now I finally understand why my Handsome stood out so much--he was a real peacock and represented a recessive trait in my group of comma bar/peacocks! Now, I'm going to have to redouble my efforts at rounding up fry in the 1st generation female tank and saving as much possible of his DNA

 

Endlers are I little confusing, what is actually a wild type endler, a line bred endler from pure wild stock, or a endler/guppy. Most of AdrianHD's (swampriver) endlers are the line bred ones such as your chili's. N class endlers require documentation, otherwise they are P class, even if they are the exact same fish, much like pure bred dogs.

I am sure you know every bit as much as I do although each of us probably knows something the other doesn't, and I am out out of date, when I was keeping endlers there weren't so many different line bred types (which I have trouble seeing them as real endlers, a personal bias) I only had wild type P class endlers, Meaning they had all the pure wild traits, but not documented, I think I got them from swampriveraquatics although its been a long time.

 

Yes, it's a mess out there, and you can't easily tell by looking at a fish what genetic mysteries s/he has hidden in there. There was a discussion on the Venezuelan site about getting some DNA checked in Germany to verify the purity of some specimens. Since my guys have been in species tanks in university labs for some 10 years, I'm fairly sure they're pure as it was their DNA that was being researched

But I'm not going to be ordering any fish any time soon no matter how gorgeous the catalog models look--I'm up to my armpits in Endler's!

 

Lol I might be able to take some off your hands.... eventually. I don't think I would be able to resist! Got any more pictures of them? I love your pictures of the Endlers.

 

I want a pair of green flame tails :3 they're so pretty! Not that I have anywhere to put them... lol

 

Love the updated text on your avatar's sign!

Thanks. I've made a handful so far to reflect my moods.

Here's a place to buy *real* Endler's in their assorted patterns:

I booked marked his site right after I saw your posts about endlers. The hybrids on page 3 are absolutely stunning.

 

Lol I might be able to take some off your hands.... eventually. I don't think I would be able to resist! Got any more pictures of them? I love your pictures of the Endlers.

Oh, I'll have them when you're ready!

I just put a picture of Mouche and Carlos into a new album. Mouche really stands out already, and I'm hoping that he'll look more like a peacock the way Handsome (probably his father) did, even though I know it's best to breed for strength. I'll add more pics if it's possible to see any fish in them

I need a better camera but can't tell my husband because I just ordered more equipment on Amazon last night, including another filter because the one on the 20-gal male tank is just too strong, and the baffle I rigged up wasn't good enough. My Christmas letter to Santa is going to be very long!

 

Oh, I'll have them when you're ready!

I just put a picture of Mouche and Carlos into a new album. Mouche really stands out already, and I'm hoping that he'll look more like a peacock the way Handsome (probably his father) did, even though I know it's best to breed for strength. I'll add more pics if it's possible to see any fish in them

I need a better camera but can't tell my husband because I just ordered more equipment on Amazon last night, including another filter because the one on the 20-gal male tank is just too strong, and the baffle I rigged up wasn't good enough. My Christmas letter to Santa is going to be very long!

I'll be sure to head right on over there! And I know about the buying. Went to petsmart for things my mom needed? Walked out with gravel and $30 in plants, too. I just can't help it! I almost got a betta too, but I need another one like I need a hole in the head.

 

I need a better camera

Be careful, photography is even more addictive than fish. MTS will seem like child's play.

 

Of course, the notion of discreet *original* categories for Endler's is just fiction in the end. Genes pop up all over the place.

I look like my maternal grandmother and 5 of my cousins from that side. My sister has bits of both of our paternal grandparents. Then there's my brother, the red head. Yep, and he's 7/8 mixed Asian, or someone is lying

We have cousins who are 1/8 Filipino and the rest Caucasian. One brother is blond and the other looks like he should have been my own brother.

My daughter is Filipino-Chinese-Indian-English-Jewish-Italian. The nurse did a double-take when she saw that my baby had blue eyes. I told her that it was my great grandfather's fault.

So I have Endler boys who are have mostly red spots and only a speck of black and perhaps 1/3 have lime green bodies under black commas, combined with peacock spots on their tails. Genes do the craziest things!

 

Also with line breeding, you can not get traits that are not already in the gene pool, only a different combination of traits. Now if you cross an endler from one region with one from another region, you can get some combinations that would not happen by natural selection, but it is still a pure endler. Well natural selection could do it if some event caused the two to intermix, naturally.

 

Also with line breeding, you can not get traits that are not already in the gene pool, only a different combination of traits. Now if you cross an endler from one region with one from another region, you can get some combinations that would not happen by natural selection, but it is still a pure endler. Well natural selection could do it if some event caused the two to intermix, naturally.

Genetic drift occurs very seldomly, and then when it does, it's usually a negative characteristic and/or one that dies out. But it can, in very rare instances, be a positive and get carried on. Whether or not that will happen with Endlers, of course, is highly improbable.

Here's a picture of some of the products of this particular group of genes

 

those are some handsome fish! I like how they are similar, but so different too.

 

those are some handsome fish! I like how they are similar, but so different too.

Maybe people will begin to see that there's no need to hybridize them--they're so varied in and of themselves that breeding "pure" ones need not be boring

 

Genetic drift can start from a single mutation, more often just from slightly different selective pressure, usually in reference to two or more populations of the same species being separated by some natural barrier. These processes are what cause hundreds of different species of similar freshwater fish as waterways change and split populations. Those that come to mind are all the different corys and different apistos. Some of the populations are really small. I have no idea how many different types of endler existed and got wiped out, or are yet undiscovered.

Fish have long enough reproductive cycles it is unlikely we are to observe this in nature within a short period of time.

Makes you want to go on a trip to SA to look for them. I don't think endlers are on top of many biologists list of species to hunt for.

 

Makes you want to go on a trip to SA to look for them. I don't think endlers are on top of many biologists list of species to hunt for.

So many places to go, so many dogs and fish tanks and 1 overwhelming 2-legged child to deal with We have dragged the child to 10 countries, but she has announced that the next Latin American stop has to have a beach resort (not my style).

But there are Venezuelans slogging through their waterways in search of Endler's. One group did send some specimens to Germany of all places several years ago to have them genetically tested, but I haven't found out yet what was decided. Now, that's what I call national pride

 

Something fishy going on in Germany. One of the leading experts on apistos is there as well. I don't know any details, when I investigating I'm looking for information of fish, not people.

 

Love the updated text on your avatar's sign!

Here's a place to buy *real* Endler's in their assorted patterns:



Oh, man, now I finally understand why my Handsome stood out so much--he was a real peacock and represented a recessive trait in my group of comma bar/peacocks! Now, I'm going to have to redouble my efforts at rounding up fry in the 1st generation female tank and saving as much possible of his DNA

I actually found that site yesterday when I was trying to figure out what type my little couple was. Could you imagine?? I had no idea endler's came in so many colors....Looks like I might have a new addiction starting (instead of just being addicted to guppies!).

 

I actually found that site yesterday when I was trying to figure out what type my little couple was. Could you imagine?? I had no idea endler's came in so many colors....Looks like I might have a new addiction starting (instead of just being addicted to guppies!).

Not hard to do.

 

I think I will get some Endlers again, but this time I won't let them reproduce unchecked. IMO the are the most interesting fish of their size.