Emergency - RCS huddled at the side of tank barely moving

Akio

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Tank

What is the water volume of the tank? ~45g
How long has the tank been running? ~6months
Does it have a filter? yes
Does it have a heater? yes
What is the water temperature? 24C
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
~7 red rili shrimp
mini ramshorn snails (pests)

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? every week
How much of the water do you change? 15%
What do you use to treat your water? Seachem Equilibrium, Prime
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Mostly just water

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? yes
What do you use to test the water? API master test kit + API GH/KH test kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 6.6
GH: 6
KH: 0-1

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Once every 3 days
How much do you feed your fish? Tiny amount
What brand of food do you feed your fish? New Life Spectrum Invertebrate
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? no

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 3-4 months
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? today
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Shrimp are huddling together in a specific area (side of the tank where moss is)
Have you started any treatment for the illness? No
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? appearance has not changed. Behavior is extremely lethargic

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)
This morning I noticed about 3 of my shrimp were VERY close to one another near a pile of moss. This has now increased to the majority (3 adults and at least 1 baby) huddled together almost in a train-like format or on top of each other right at the edge of the tank. They act almost as if they're scared of something and are barely moving/grazing. The only change I've made to the tank was adding two large plants three days ago. Specifically, the plants were Alternanthera - Reineckii "pink" and Echinodorus - Ozelot Green. Prior to adding, I dosed both in a 5% bleach solution to remove any unwanted pests for about 1 minute. I then added the two plants to another bleach-free bucket filled with water and dosed Prime to remove any bleach. I let the plants soak for an hour in this bucket. I then repeated the bleach-free Prime dosed bucket step once more. I then added the plants to the tank. The shrimp seemed fine for the next two days. I've recently checked all parameters including temperature, and everything seems to be normal. Could this issue be due to any remaining traces of bleach on the plants? Looking back, I didn't wash off the plants after the two Prime-dosed bucket steps...
 

SanDiegoRedneck

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Akio said:
Tank

What is the water volume of the tank? ~45g
How long has the tank been running? ~6months
Does it have a filter? yes
Does it have a heater? yes
What is the water temperature? 24C
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
~7 red rili shrimp
mini ramshorn snails (pests)

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? every week
How much of the water do you change? 15%
What do you use to treat your water? Seachem Equilibrium, Prime
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Mostly just water

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? yes
What do you use to test the water? API master test kit + API GH/KH test kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 6.6
GH: 3
KH: 0-1

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Once every 3 days
How much do you feed your fish? Tiny amount
What brand of food do you feed your fish? New Life Spectrum Invertebrate
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? no

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 3-4 months
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? today
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Shrimp are huddling together in a specific area (side of the tank where moss is)
Have you started any treatment for the illness? No
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? appearance has not changed. Behavior is extremely lethargic

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)
This morning I noticed about 3 of my shrimp were VERY close to one another near a pile of moss. This has now increased to the majority (3 adults and at least 1 baby) huddled together almost in a train-like format or on top of each other right at the edge of the tank. They act almost as if they're scared of something and are barely moving/grazing. The only change I've made to the tank was adding two large plants three days ago. Specifically, the plants were Alternanthera - Reineckii "pink" and Echinodorus - Ozelot Green. Prior to adding, I dosed both in a 5% bleach solution to remove any unwanted pests for about 1 minute. I then added the two plants to another bleach-free bucket filled with water and dosed Prime to remove any bleach. I let the plants soak for an hour in this bucket. I then repeated the bleach-free Prime dosed bucket step once more. I then added the plants to the tank. The shrimp seemed fine for the next two days. I've recently checked all parameters including temperature, and everything seems to be normal. Could this issue be due to any remaining traces of bleach on the plants? Looking back, I didn't wash off the plants after the two Prime-dosed bucket steps...
No issues if just talking about space. Watch videos of breeders shrimp eating. It's a pile. Lol. The like moss, feel safe over there. If they physically look fine them huddling is totally normal.
 
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Akio

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SanDiegoRedneck said:
No issues if just talking about space. Watch videos of breeders shrimp eating. It's a pile. Lol. The like moss, feel safe over there. If they physically look fine them huddling is totally normal.
Thanks for the quick reply. Its not just the fact that they're huddled together, although I've never seen them do this in the first place before anyways. They're also barely moving, as far as I can tell they haven't moved in the last 30 min at all. Every minute or so one of them may start grazing for a few seconds then stop. To me it doesn't seem like they're happy/just hanging out. I'll see if I can post a pic.
Edit: see attached
 

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SanDiegoRedneck

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Akio said:
Thanks for the quick reply. Its not just the fact that they're huddled together, although I've never seen them do this in the first place before anyways. They're also barely moving, as far as I can tell they haven't moved in the last 30 min at all. Every minute or so one of them may start grazing for a few seconds then stop. To me it doesn't seem like they're happy/just hanging out. I'll see if I can post a pic.
Do water change. Maybe pull suspect plants out put in bucket off to side. Yes post picture

SanDiegoRedneck said:
No issues if just talking about space. Watch videos of breeders shrimp eating. It's a pile. Lol. The like moss, feel safe over there. If they physically look fine them huddling is totally normal.
Ps I have never done the bleach thing you did with live plants. Although it seems like you double primed
 
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Akio

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SanDiegoRedneck said:
Ps I have never done the bleach thing you did with live plants. Although it seems like you double primed
I'm reading up on other posts where people have used Prime to neutralize bleach. One site said to use 5x the regular dose of Prime. Perhaps I didn't use enough of Prime? I'm wondering if I should add a double dose of Prime to my tank right now. I'm a bit nervous of doing a water change at this time unless absolutely needed, as I don't want to add any further stress to the shrimp.

Does anyone know how long bleach remains in water? I heard it evaporates and naturally breaks down. I'm a bit confused if it is indeed the bleach that would be the cause since the change in behavior didn't occur until at least 24h later.
 

SanDiegoRedneck

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Akio said:
I'm reading up on other posts where people have used Prime to neutralize bleach. One site said to use 5x the regular dose of Prime. Perhaps I didn't use enough of Prime? I'm wondering if I should add a double dose of Prime to my tank right now. I'm a bit nervous of doing a water change at this time unless absolutely needed, as I don't want to add any further stress to the shrimp.

Does anyone know how long bleach remains in water? I heard it evaporates and naturally breaks down. I'm a bit confused if it is indeed the bleach that would be the cause since the change in behavior didn't occur until at least 24h later.
I for sure have used 5x prime for ammonia and nitrite spike in past in fish tanks never shrimp. Maybe less for sensitive shrimp but it even says on bottle.
 
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Akio

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Update, here's a pic of one on top of the other??? These are both male btw, so im pretty sure no mating going on here...
 

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richiep

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doing a double rinse in cold water with just one dose of prime should be enough to clean the plants to go in, could there have been bleech on your hands?
Not doing a water change will lead to death if theres bleech in there, do a 50% water change ASAP keeping the new water temp as close as possible to your tank,
 
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Akio

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Hi Richie, I'll do the large water change, but if there was traces of bleach wouldn't it have been completely evaporated or neutralized by now? It's been over 72h since the bleach would have entered. Also, would prime solve this??
 

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I dont know what prime affect has on bleech its just recommended to do the last wash with prime, i dont like your gh at 3 this can cause moult isues but its not connected to your present issue, the only other culprit could be toxins on you plants that the bleech didn't remove, so a water change should help and you should start to see an improvement but if they go back the same way then take the plants out, what you are describing sounds like a toxin,
 
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Akio

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Oh oops I must have mistyped, GH is and has been at 6 for a while now. I'll edit this. The shrimp seem to have slightly moved since last night, but I'll do the water change anyways.
 
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Akio

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Hey everyone just an update. I did a 50% WC last night. Shrimp have shown perhaps a slight improvement. No weird mounting, although they are still a bit lethargic. This afternoon I noticed that my filter was running quite slow. I did some maintenance on it and the flow seems to have improved. Hopefully this may have been the issue, although probably not as I would think any issues caused by insufficient filtering would have shown up on the water parameter tests...
 

JettsPapa

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Akio said:
Hey everyone just an update. I did a 50% WC last night. Shrimp have shown perhaps a slight improvement. No weird mounting, although they are still a bit lethargic. This afternoon I noticed that my filter was running quite slow. I did some maintenance on it and the flow seems to have improved. Hopefully this may have been the issue, although probably not as I would think any issues caused by insufficient filtering would have shown up on the water parameter tests...
If your filter wasn't running properly is it possible there wasn't enough water movement to keep the water properly oxygenated?
 
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Akio

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JettsPapa said:
If your filter wasn't running properly is it possible there wasn't enough water movement to keep the water properly oxygenated?
I thought of this, but if that was the case wouldn't the shrimp be at the top of the tank gasping instead of huddling at the bottom?

Another update, things don't seem to have improved. Shrimp continue to be lethargic and the majority of the time are hiding. The shrimp are specifically red rilis, and one of them has a very milky/white center instead of a clear body. The others seem to be just sitting around. The adults seem to be if anything slightly more affected than the babies in terms of symptoms, although I have seen less activity from the babies as well.

Being honest, while I haven't given up, I'm at a loss here and am quite discouraged :\. Would the next steps be to remove the two new plants? Another large water change? Poor shrimp were probably stressed from the last large water change...
 

JettsPapa

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Akio said:
I thought of this, but if that was the case wouldn't the shrimp be at the top of the tank gasping instead of huddling at the bottom?

Another update, things don't seem to have improved. Shrimp continue to be lethargic and the majority of the time are hiding. The shrimp are specifically red rilis, and one of them has a very milky/white center instead of a clear body. The others seem to be just sitting around. The adults seem to be if anything slightly more affected than the babies in terms of symptoms, although I have seen less activity from the babies as well.

Being honest, while I haven't given up, I'm at a loss here and am quite discouraged :\. Would the next steps be to remove the two new plants? Another large water change? Poor shrimp were probably stressed from the last large water change...
I agree that I would have thought they'd have been at the top of the tank if oxygen was an issue, but not necessarily.

I think I'd leave things alone for a while, especially if you think it might be stress related.
 

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